DIY Shimming the carb needles. - Page 10

Jiu Jitsu Player · May 10th, 2009, 06:00 PM

Yeah I would definitely factor in at least 4 hours. This will allow you to test things out and take everything apart again to make adjustments if necessary. Its a pretty simple procedure, there are just a lot of steps involved.

Dr Shorty · May 10th, 2009, 07:46 PM

Took me about 3-4 hours also. Took my time.

I think I need some more tuning though, maybe you all can help. I've been riding the bike for a year now. Drilled out my muffler (5 holes drilled in rear baffle) late last year with no negative change in performance. Did the needle and snorkel remove couple of weeks ago (at the same time) and now the bike starts easier and is less likely to die with throttle when cold. However it seems less powerful, maybe boggy, at low rpms now (maybe this is just my imagination). Is this a sign of being too rich or too lean? My setup:

Before:
Stock with 5 ~1/2in holes in back of muffler

Now:
Stock with 2 #4 washers snorkel removed and 5 holes in muffler.

Gonna take it apart again soon so do you guys think I should add a washer or remove a washer?

Thanks

Shorty

kkim · May 10th, 2009, 07:50 PM

if it was running fine before the washers and is boggy now, try taking one out and see what happens. also, when you remove the snorkel, you lose some midrange punch, but make some additional top end.

The addition of washers should improve the low to midrange.

edit- what size washers did you use?

Dr Shorty · May 10th, 2009, 07:58 PM

#4 - the second smallest ones from the radio-shack pack

kkim · May 10th, 2009, 07:59 PM

#4 are the correct size. either #4 or 3MM washers will work.

Dr Shorty · May 10th, 2009, 08:06 PM

Cool thanks for the super fast replies.

Since you say that the snorkel removes some mid-range, that may be what I am feeling the most. I may try to stick that thing back in and see what happens. Getting that thing back in there looks tricky though...

kkim · May 10th, 2009, 09:33 PM

it is. I worked it from the inside of the airbox, out. take out the air filter for more working room. use something slippery like armorall or wd40 to help the snorkel slide back into place. even then I couldn't get one corner back on completely.

rookie · May 11th, 2009, 02:27 PM

Shimmed up my ninja today cant wait to try it out, removed the snorkel also sounds better at idle

kkim · May 11th, 2009, 02:46 PM

well... what are you waiting for?? get out there and ride!!

let us know how the bike feels after you get back.

rookie · May 11th, 2009, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

well... what are you waiting for?? get out there and ride!!

let us know how the bike feels after you get back.

Cant ride till my parts come in

rookie · May 11th, 2009, 03:00 PM

I had a woman pull out in front of me last month i went down, been waiting for her insurance to come through

Sound Wave · May 11th, 2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rookie

Cant ride till my parts come in

just throw the gas tank back on and go for a ride!!!

rookie · May 11th, 2009, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sound Wave

just throw the gas tank back on and go for a ride!!!

Believe me i was thinking the same thing but the state patrol is heavy on my street

tjkamper · May 11th, 2009, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grandmaster

I ended up with 2 and it seems to be great. It seems to be a great mod and very easy. Especially the snorkel, basically no effort to take that thing out.

is there a DIY on how to remove the snorkel?

kkim · May 11th, 2009, 03:59 PM

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10090

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5586

HKr1 · May 11th, 2009, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sound Wave

just throw the gas tank back on and go for a ride!!!

Thats what I was thinking....... Ride it like a Bultaco

Buffalony · May 11th, 2009, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rookie

Cant ride till my parts come in

Itsss NAKED. Ninjette nudity

Sound Wave · May 11th, 2009, 08:09 PM

man, i think if i had my bike disassembled that much again, i would be really tempted to yank that airbox and switch over to pod filters.

oh, and now would be a good time to change the color of your gauge lights too.

diablo250 · May 25th, 2009, 12:37 AM

I did the shimming tonight-took me all of 1 hour, didn't remove the tank completely, just put it off to the side. I bought a 2foot #2 phillips (waaaay overkill) and had the washers sitting around. I found that AIRSOFT SHIMS-the thicker .05 or whatever work perfectly. They fit tightly, and are made to exacting tolerances. After the shimming/snorkel removal the bike really feels a lot better.

xpander37 · May 27th, 2009, 12:09 AM

nice DIY!!! i just did this tonight... was pretty easy even tho i ended up stripping a screw, but with the help of a dremel i put a notch on the ex-phillips screw and used a flat head to remove it

..... i slipped in 3 washers on each needle.....

Test ride was great the bike is much smoother to ride and has more power for acceleration....hard deceleration was rid of some exhaust popping do to Kleen air removal also...

Questions....How can i tell if im running way too rich?..if i am running too rich will i harm the engine?...

*My Mods*
-kleen air removed
-Shimmed needles (3 washers for a total of 0.08 of an inch per needle)
-Competition workes slip-on exhaust

kkim · May 27th, 2009, 12:14 AM

if you are too rich, the bike will not pull strongly through the midrange, but feel "boggy" until you hit the main jet higher in the rev range.

If your bike pulls nice and even throughout the entire rev range, I'd say you're good.

when you get a chance, replace the carb top screws w/ some allens.

xpander37 · May 28th, 2009, 12:20 AM

took it for a spin today... and mid-range seemed pull was a little lacking.... would taking out the snorkel help bring some power back to mid?.... from what i understand taking out the snorkel will lean it up a bit.... im considering snorkel removal instead of taking a washer out at the moment..... i guess ill try it out tomarrow and see how that works out.... hmmm or perhaps now lol... by the way thanks for all the advice kkim!

kkim · May 28th, 2009, 12:54 AM

Tony, if you are too rich from the 3 washers (which I think you might be), pulling the snorkel out should lean out the midrange and give you some oompf back in that rev zone. The top end will definitely improve with the snorkel out.

take it out and see how you like it. if you don't you can always put it back in, though it's not as easy as taking it out.

btw, what size were the washers?

xpander37 · May 28th, 2009, 02:14 AM

hey kelly, just took out the snorkel.... fastest and easiest mod ever lol....but yeah it most def improved my mid-range.... to bad i cant hear the air pull through the port (dam exhaust is too loud, specially when it is 4am here and im the only one zipping around town hahah)

hmmm washer size, i dont recall.... i bought various sizes and bagged em together.... it didnt fit totally snug on the needle but it was close enough i thought.... if they were to big what would the issues be?

kkim · May 28th, 2009, 11:32 AM

yes, if the washers are too big, some have had the problem of the bike not revving past 5-6k when they put stuff back together. if you've got yours to run past that rpm, you should be okay.

again, washers should be metric 3mm or std #4.

If pulling the snorkel out improved the midrange, you were def too rich, but you should be good now. The top end should rev even more freely to redline, too.

lemme know how the bike feels after you have a chance to really push it.

xpander37 · May 29th, 2009, 04:51 AM

oh alrite then washers should be good..... most def it goes past 6k....

the ride is nice has nice pull all the way to red line..... yesterday i was opening the throttle to about 9k and felt great... i was just a lil reluctant about hitting redline because it only has about 200 miles on it haha.... but, today i went full throttle and took her to redline... i dont know if its just me but... when i hit 9k (give or take a lil bit) i think it had a small burst and just felt like it pulled a lil harder til redline.....

so she was running rich and pulling the snorkel leaned her out just right... so i think im good on performance mods.... thinking about carb syncing next and i think thatll be it....

thanks again for all the quick replies and help, much appreciated kelly

unowned · May 29th, 2009, 05:13 PM

i got a pack of plastic washers, will these work (they are #4...just plastic

)

kkim · May 29th, 2009, 05:32 PM

they could... but I wouldn't. no telling how thick they are and what might happen if they get heated in the engine environment. Get some metal washers and don't take any chances.... it's not like they are expensive.

unowned · May 29th, 2009, 06:07 PM

gah...i went to home depot they only had 4mms, and went to a source circuit city, they had the plastic ones....i live in toronto, can you recommend any places (radio shack does not exist here/anymore)

kkim · May 29th, 2009, 06:16 PM

are there no hardware or autoparts stores there?

Bsmith · May 29th, 2009, 06:35 PM

PM me your address I have a baggie full of them.

unowned · May 29th, 2009, 07:15 PM

wow nice folks here for sure, its ok im sure ill be able to find it tomorrow, gonna ask my local dealership :S

kkim · May 29th, 2009, 07:18 PM

nah... just go to a hardware store or autoparts store. nothing special about these flat washers and the dealer is more likely to give you a hard time about working on your bike, not to mention charging you an arm and a leg for the washers, if they have any.

3mm metric or #4 std.

Bsmith · May 29th, 2009, 07:25 PM

That goes for anybody that wants some. I paid a $1.25 for 100 of the critters at Fastenal. I'll need at most 16 for the two bikes. You send me a SASE and I'll send you 8 washers.

kkim · May 29th, 2009, 07:33 PM

Bill ,

cool move.

BTW, what size are the washers you have?

Bsmith · May 29th, 2009, 08:09 PM

They are #4 SAE 5/16OD F F/W. I haven't put the calipers to them to check thickness yet. I can't find them in the garage.

They were my good ones too. Well as good as $60 will buy you.

DerTeufel · May 31st, 2009, 08:28 PM

I did this mod today. I used two washers per needle, and yanked the snorkel out. I am using the stock exhaust. Took about an hour and a half to do, start to finish. Before doing this mod, I had to use the choke every time I started the bike, even when the mercury was above 60F, and when riding after the initial cold start, I would have to leave the choke on for about a mile or two. After doing this mod, I was pleasantly surprised when the engine ticked over without the choke from a completely cold engine (ambient temp was 70F). I allowed the engine to warm up for a minute whilst I made some adjustments, then went on a short test ride. I like the results quite a bit..the throttle response was much better, especially when starting from a stop. Mid-range seemed to feel pretty good, and top end didn't seem to suffer. Top notch mod!

kkim · May 31st, 2009, 08:31 PM

Aaron,

the top end should have improved too, with the snorkel removal. Guess you'll just need to do more WOT/redline testing.

DerTeufel · May 31st, 2009, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

Aaron,

the top end should have improved too, with the snorkel removal. Guess you'll just need to do more WOT/redline testing.

Aye..to be honest, I only did a couple laps around my block. I really like how much more responsive it feels. My initial impressions=

kkim · May 31st, 2009, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerTeufel

Aye..to be honest, I only did a couple laps around my block. I really like how much more responsive it feels. My initial impressions=

yep... which is why I sound like a broken record recommending this cheap, effective mod.

May 10th, 2009, 06:00 PM	#361
Jiu Jitsu Player Live 2 Ride Forced 2 Work Name: Chris Location: Guam Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 RED 250r Posts: 386	Yeah I would definitely factor in at least 4 hours. This will allow you to test things out and take everything apart again to make adjustments if necessary. Its a pretty simple procedure, there are just a lot of steps involved. __________________________________________________ SAVAGE MODE: [ON] OFF www.7milesdown.com

May 27th, 2009, 12:09 AM	#380
xpander37 ninjette.org member Name: Tony Location: Illinois Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 ninja 250r Posts: 20	nice DIY!!! i just did this tonight... was pretty easy even tho i ended up stripping a screw, but with the help of a dremel i put a notch on the ex-phillips screw and used a flat head to remove it..... i slipped in 3 washers on each needle..... Test ride was great the bike is much smoother to ride and has more power for acceleration....hard deceleration was rid of some exhaust popping do to Kleen air removal also... Questions....How can i tell if im running way too rich?..if i am running too rich will i harm the engine?... My Mods -kleen air removed -Shimmed needles (3 washers for a total of 0.08 of an inch per needle) -Competition workes slip-on exhaust

May 29th, 2009, 07:25 PM	#394
Bsmith ninjette.org member Name: Bill Location: Easley, SC Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 Ninja 250 R.I.P. Posts: 84	That goes for anybody that wants some. I paid a $1.25 for 100 of the critters at Fastenal. I'll need at most 16 for the two bikes. You send me a SASE and I'll send you 8 washers. Last futzed with by Bsmith; May 29th, 2009 at 08:10 PM. Reason: Wrong ammount. heh. Must proof read.

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May 10th, 2009, 07:46 PM	#362
Dr Shorty ninjette.org member Name: Shorty Location: Maryland Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 Ninja 250 Posts: 11	Took me about 3-4 hours also. Took my time. I think I need some more tuning though, maybe you all can help. I've been riding the bike for a year now. Drilled out my muffler (5 holes drilled in rear baffle) late last year with no negative change in performance. Did the needle and snorkel remove couple of weeks ago (at the same time) and now the bike starts easier and is less likely to die with throttle when cold. However it seems less powerful, maybe boggy, at low rpms now (maybe this is just my imagination). Is this a sign of being too rich or too lean? My setup: Before: Stock with 5 ~1/2in holes in back of muffler Now: Stock with 2 #4 washers snorkel removed and 5 holes in muffler. Gonna take it apart again soon so do you guys think I should add a washer or remove a washer? Thanks Shorty

May 10th, 2009, 07:50 PM	#363
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	if it was running fine before the washers and is boggy now, try taking one out and see what happens. also, when you remove the snorkel, you lose some midrange punch, but make some additional top end. The addition of washers should improve the low to midrange. edit- what size washers did you use?

May 10th, 2009, 07:58 PM	#364
Dr Shorty ninjette.org member Name: Shorty Location: Maryland Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 Ninja 250 Posts: 11	#4 - the second smallest ones from the radio-shack pack

May 10th, 2009, 07:59 PM	#365
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	#4 are the correct size. either #4 or 3MM washers will work.

May 10th, 2009, 08:06 PM	#366
Dr Shorty ninjette.org member Name: Shorty Location: Maryland Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 Ninja 250 Posts: 11	Cool thanks for the super fast replies. Since you say that the snorkel removes some mid-range, that may be what I am feeling the most. I may try to stick that thing back in and see what happens. Getting that thing back in there looks tricky though...

May 10th, 2009, 09:33 PM	#367
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	it is. I worked it from the inside of the airbox, out. take out the air filter for more working room. use something slippery like armorall or wd40 to help the snorkel slide back into place. even then I couldn't get one corner back on completely.

May 11th, 2009, 02:27 PM	#368
rookie ninjette.org member Name: chuck Location: Holland, OH Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 ninja 250 2007 ZX6R Posts: 30	Shimmed up my ninja today cant wait to try it out, removed the snorkel also sounds better at idle

May 11th, 2009, 02:46 PM	#369
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	well... what are you waiting for?? get out there and ride!! let us know how the bike feels after you get back.

May 11th, 2009, 03:00 PM	#371
rookie ninjette.org member Name: chuck Location: Holland, OH Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 ninja 250 2007 ZX6R Posts: 30	I had a woman pull out in front of me last month i went down, been waiting for her insurance to come through

May 11th, 2009, 03:59 PM	#375
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10090 http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5586

May 11th, 2009, 08:09 PM	#378
Sound Wave Ramen Rider Name: Gary Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2015 BMW R1200R, 08 Honda VFR800A (sold), 09 Ninja 250R (sold) Posts: A lot.	man, i think if i had my bike disassembled that much again, i would be really tempted to yank that airbox and switch over to pod filters. oh, and now would be a good time to change the color of your gauge lights too.

May 25th, 2009, 12:37 AM	#379
diablo250 Crafty Salesman.... Name: Mike Location: Las Anjules(L.A.) Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 09 250r, 06 sv650sf Posts: 170	I did the shimming tonight-took me all of 1 hour, didn't remove the tank completely, just put it off to the side. I bought a 2foot #2 phillips (waaaay overkill) and had the washers sitting around. I found that AIRSOFT SHIMS-the thicker .05 or whatever work perfectly. They fit tightly, and are made to exacting tolerances. After the shimming/snorkel removal the bike really feels a lot better.

May 27th, 2009, 12:14 AM	#381
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	if you are too rich, the bike will not pull strongly through the midrange, but feel "boggy" until you hit the main jet higher in the rev range. If your bike pulls nice and even throughout the entire rev range, I'd say you're good. when you get a chance, replace the carb top screws w/ some allens.

May 28th, 2009, 12:20 AM	#382
xpander37 ninjette.org member Name: Tony Location: Illinois Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 ninja 250r Posts: 20	took it for a spin today... and mid-range seemed pull was a little lacking.... would taking out the snorkel help bring some power back to mid?.... from what i understand taking out the snorkel will lean it up a bit.... im considering snorkel removal instead of taking a washer out at the moment..... i guess ill try it out tomarrow and see how that works out.... hmmm or perhaps now lol... by the way thanks for all the advice kkim!

May 28th, 2009, 12:54 AM	#383
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	Tony, if you are too rich from the 3 washers (which I think you might be), pulling the snorkel out should lean out the midrange and give you some oompf back in that rev zone. The top end will definitely improve with the snorkel out. take it out and see how you like it. if you don't you can always put it back in, though it's not as easy as taking it out. btw, what size were the washers?

May 28th, 2009, 02:14 AM	#384
xpander37 ninjette.org member Name: Tony Location: Illinois Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 ninja 250r Posts: 20	hey kelly, just took out the snorkel.... fastest and easiest mod ever lol....but yeah it most def improved my mid-range.... to bad i cant hear the air pull through the port (dam exhaust is too loud, specially when it is 4am here and im the only one zipping around town hahah) hmmm washer size, i dont recall.... i bought various sizes and bagged em together.... it didnt fit totally snug on the needle but it was close enough i thought.... if they were to big what would the issues be?

May 28th, 2009, 11:32 AM	#385
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	yes, if the washers are too big, some have had the problem of the bike not revving past 5-6k when they put stuff back together. if you've got yours to run past that rpm, you should be okay. again, washers should be metric 3mm or std #4. If pulling the snorkel out improved the midrange, you were def too rich, but you should be good now. The top end should rev even more freely to redline, too. lemme know how the bike feels after you have a chance to really push it.

May 29th, 2009, 04:51 AM	#386
xpander37 ninjette.org member Name: Tony Location: Illinois Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 ninja 250r Posts: 20	oh alrite then washers should be good..... most def it goes past 6k.... the ride is nice has nice pull all the way to red line..... yesterday i was opening the throttle to about 9k and felt great... i was just a lil reluctant about hitting redline because it only has about 200 miles on it haha.... but, today i went full throttle and took her to redline... i dont know if its just me but... when i hit 9k (give or take a lil bit) i think it had a small burst and just felt like it pulled a lil harder til redline..... so she was running rich and pulling the snorkel leaned her out just right... so i think im good on performance mods.... thinking about carb syncing next and i think thatll be it.... thanks again for all the quick replies and help, much appreciated kelly

May 29th, 2009, 05:13 PM	#387
unowned ninjette.org member Name: TC Location: Richmond Hill Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): NINJA 250R 08 Posts: 27	i got a pack of plastic washers, will these work (they are #4...just plastic )

May 29th, 2009, 05:32 PM	#388
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	they could... but I wouldn't. no telling how thick they are and what might happen if they get heated in the engine environment. Get some metal washers and don't take any chances.... it's not like they are expensive.

May 29th, 2009, 06:07 PM	#389
unowned ninjette.org member Name: TC Location: Richmond Hill Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): NINJA 250R 08 Posts: 27	gah...i went to home depot they only had 4mms, and went to a source circuit city, they had the plastic ones....i live in toronto, can you recommend any places (radio shack does not exist here/anymore)

May 29th, 2009, 06:16 PM	#390
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	are there no hardware or autoparts stores there?

May 29th, 2009, 06:35 PM	#391
Bsmith ninjette.org member Name: Bill Location: Easley, SC Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 Ninja 250 R.I.P. Posts: 84	PM me your address I have a baggie full of them.

May 29th, 2009, 07:15 PM	#392
unowned ninjette.org member Name: TC Location: Richmond Hill Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): NINJA 250R 08 Posts: 27	wow nice folks here for sure, its ok im sure ill be able to find it tomorrow, gonna ask my local dealership :S

May 29th, 2009, 07:18 PM	#393
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	nah... just go to a hardware store or autoparts store. nothing special about these flat washers and the dealer is more likely to give you a hard time about working on your bike, not to mention charging you an arm and a leg for the washers, if they have any. 3mm metric or #4 std.

May 29th, 2009, 07:33 PM	#395
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	Bill , cool move. BTW, what size are the washers you have?

May 29th, 2009, 08:09 PM	#396
Bsmith ninjette.org member Name: Bill Location: Easley, SC Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 Ninja 250 R.I.P. Posts: 84	They are #4 SAE 5/16OD F F/W. I haven't put the calipers to them to check thickness yet. I can't find them in the garage. They were my good ones too. Well as good as $60 will buy you.

May 31st, 2009, 08:28 PM	#397
DerTeufel ninjette.org member Name: Aaron Location: Wildomar Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2009 KTM 690 SMC, 2001 Suzuki GSX-R 750 (track bike) Posts: 172	I did this mod today. I used two washers per needle, and yanked the snorkel out. I am using the stock exhaust. Took about an hour and a half to do, start to finish. Before doing this mod, I had to use the choke every time I started the bike, even when the mercury was above 60F, and when riding after the initial cold start, I would have to leave the choke on for about a mile or two. After doing this mod, I was pleasantly surprised when the engine ticked over without the choke from a completely cold engine (ambient temp was 70F). I allowed the engine to warm up for a minute whilst I made some adjustments, then went on a short test ride. I like the results quite a bit..the throttle response was much better, especially when starting from a stop. Mid-range seemed to feel pretty good, and top end didn't seem to suffer. Top notch mod!

May 31st, 2009, 08:31 PM	#398
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	Aaron, the top end should have improved too, with the snorkel removal. Guess you'll just need to do more WOT/redline testing.