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Old June 1st, 2015, 11:47 PM   #1
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Brake Caliper Rebuild Kit

Anybody have a link to one?

Mine are filthy and beyond a deep cleaning I'm sure they could use a rebuild.

While you're at it if anybody knows how to find a revalve kit for a gsxr shock that'd be great too
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Old June 2nd, 2015, 10:55 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Trailerboy531 View Post
Anybody have a link to one?

Mine are filthy and beyond a deep cleaning I'm sure they could use a rebuild.

While you're at it if anybody knows how to find a revalve kit for a gsxr shock that'd be great too
I was ordering stainless steel pistons from some UK company for my rebuild ninja 250 but UPS lost the package.

they are like $40 a pop... the rebuilt kits K&L seem ok but I have not used it yet...

other option is to buy a used caliper from a used 250 and use those pistons but I rather spend $$ now and attempt to avoid problems later... all this on ebay.. seller is called something like power house UK..
ooh..

and front and rear do have their differences fyi..

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001HSWHZU/...=I930PKZN84MD9

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151186191456...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
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Old June 2nd, 2015, 12:16 PM   #3
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Here's the write-up,

For those of you whom are scratching their heads, here you go,*


Front Caliper Service (also rear as well)

Many folks have posted here with a Varity of front brake problems.

*Many of which are attributable to the lack of proper maintenance.

*Here’s how you can always have a brake like when your bike was new.

A short list of the problems and the causes.

Soft lever or lever goes to the bar.

The usual cause is the pistons are pushed too far back into the caliper by a flexing a warped, coned, disc.

*Using up too much piston travel before the disc is pinched.

Juddering in sync with wheel rotation.

The disc is worn, and its thickness varies. *This causes the caliper to “sink” into the thin part and when the thick part comes around, it gets wedged into a smaller space causing a tightening of the brake. Then the tight spot passes through and it like the brake is released. Then repeat, repeat.

Cupped, coned, or warped disc.

Unfortunately this is a common problem with EX’s the cause is the disc is stretched in the center due to being rigidly bolted to the wheel. *The huge force of braking is transmitted to the wheel through the webbed center of the disc which gets stretched and becomes larger than the space it occupies in the center of the disc. This causes the center to push to the side trying to find room for itself.

*Resulting is a cone shaped disc.

Soft lever 2

The caliper has pistons only on one side, so as the pads wear the caliper must shift sideways apply even pressure on both sides of the disc.

*To allow this the caliper floats on two pins. *If these pins get dry (no grease) dirty or bent. The caliper won’t center itself and bends the disc to wherever it is.

This take up lever travel and when released pushes the pistons further back than necessary.

*If not fixed will eventually destroy the disc (warp it).


Ok how to prevent all of the above.

When new pad time comes around, resist the temptation to just pop in new one and go.

*Every time you must do these things.

Remove caliper disassemble and clean it.

Clean and re grease the sliding pins.

Polish the caliper pistons to remove dirt. If you just push the pistons back into the caliper leaks will result. Or binding.

Tools required:
12 mm socket
8mm open end wrench
3” or bigger C clamp
a supply of new bake fluid.
wire brush and or steel wool.

Remove the caliper from the fork leg but leave the brake line on.

Remove the old pads and the mounting frame (the sliding pins)

Remove the cover from the Master Cylinder on the Handel bar.

Attach the C clamp to one of the pistons but don’t squeeze it. *Pump the lever on the bar slowly to push out the other piston almost all the way. *Put the C clamp on that piston and push out the other one.

Remove both pistons by hand.

Remove all the rubber part from the caliper, the seals are in the grooves in the caliper and dull pointed thingy will get them out easy.

Disconnect the caliper from the brake line.

Soak all the rubber parts in new clean brake fluid * ONLY!!!!! * Rub them with you fingers till as clean as new.

The caliper can be cleaned with a wire brush or even a Moto tool for the internal grooves, NOW’s the time to paint it if you wish.

Polish the pistons till they are smooth and shinny. They are chrome plated. If any of the plating is chipped or damaged below the dust cap groove. *Replace it.

The master cylinder is the subject of another write up and we’ll assume it in good working order here.

If you suspect your disc is bad, your bets bet is to replace it with an after market one fro EBC or Galpher.

*Don’t remove the disc unless you intend to replace it. *It will assume a new shape if it is * stressed and will not be flat again. You can try to check its condition by placing a straight edge across the face of the pad swept area looking for any distortion.

Re assembly

Take the nice clean rubber seals and install them into the caliper then the Dust covers.
Wet all the rubber with new clean brake fluid and partially fill the caliper with new fluid.

Push the pistons though the dust seals and into the caliper body until the dust covers snap into the grooves.

Fill the MC with new fluid and pump the lever while holding the Line above the MC till clean fluid flows.

Connect the line to the caliper while holding it above the MC.

Pump the lever with the bleeder valve open till fluid flow from the bleeder.

*Hold the caliper so that the bleeder is the highest point.

Close the bleeder and pump more fluid into the caliper but don’t push the pistons all the way out.

Then squeeze the pistons all the way back in and install the new pads.

Re grease the slider pins and assemble the dust seals and re mount the caliper on the forks but leave the bolts loose.

Now clamp the caliper to the disc with the brake lever.

Look at the space between the fork lugs and the caliper, clamp and release a few times as you tighten the bolts by hand. It one lug touches much before the other the odds are you mounting bracket is bent. You can straighten it.

*After you get it the best you can. Some shim washers made from alum can stock can be fitted to the loose side.*

** *What we are doing here is trying to minimize the bedd in time and gets the best pad life.


Ok with everything tight you should be through, Notice we don’t need to bleed the brakes, but if you screwed up in any of the above steps, you might do that here.

Be careful to Bedd in the new pads gently.

*Too much pressure too soon will burn the pad material as only a small area will be gripping at first. You also won’t have full braking power till the pads are fully familiar with the disc
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Old June 2nd, 2015, 12:25 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qomomoko View Post
I was ordering stainless steel pistons from some UK company for my rebuild ninja 250 but UPS lost the package.

they are like $40 a pop... the rebuilt kits K&L seem ok but I have not used it yet...

other option is to buy a used caliper from a used 250 and use those pistons but I rather spend $$ now and attempt to avoid problems later... all this on ebay.. seller is called something like power house UK..
ooh..

and front and rear do have their differences fyi..

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001HSWHZU/...=I930PKZN84MD9

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151186191456...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
I looked in to K&L but didn't find ones for the 08-12 250. The link you provided doesn't list it as applicable. That eBay kit looks good and I think I'll order it, thanks!

Hopefully I wont need new pistons or any hard parts.
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Old June 2nd, 2015, 04:34 PM   #5
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I did the e-bay ones. All worked out well.
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Old June 2nd, 2015, 05:13 PM   #6
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I did the e-bay ones. All worked out well.
You mean the seals posted above?
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Old June 3rd, 2015, 11:38 AM   #7
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You mean the seals posted above?
HellifIknow

I went to e-bay
I typed "Kawasaki 250 front brake seal"
I sorted by cheapest price+shipping
I found seals that were for my year
I bought it now
I repeated for "Kawasaki 250 rear brake seal"

I have purchased various brake seal and re-build kits off of E-bay for both 250's and the 600. My bidding history says I've gotten stuff from Brakecrafter, and K&L through various dealers. I don't think there's any huge difference for the Powerhouse ones that are posted.
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Old June 3rd, 2015, 11:41 AM   #8
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Amazon is another option
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Old June 3rd, 2015, 01:34 PM   #9
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SS pistons

sweet info..


any of you guys gone with more expensive option of getting stainless steel pistons?????
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Old June 3rd, 2015, 02:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookiebug79 View Post
HellifIknow

I went to e-bay
I typed "Kawasaki 250 front brake seal"
I sorted by cheapest price+shipping
I found seals that were for my year
I bought it now
I repeated for "Kawasaki 250 rear brake seal"

I have purchased various brake seal and re-build kits off of E-bay for both 250's and the 600. My bidding history says I've gotten stuff from Brakecrafter, and K&L through various dealers. I don't think there's any huge difference for the Powerhouse ones that are posted.
Okay that's cool - just making sure you're only talking seals and no hard parts like new pistons, etc.
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Old June 3rd, 2015, 04:53 PM   #11
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One of 'em sold me a master cylinder rebuild kit including a master cylinder piston. But no, no caliper pistons.
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Old August 29th, 2015, 11:13 PM   #12
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Remove the caliper from the fork leg but leave the brake line on.

Remove the old pads and the mounting frame (the sliding pins)

Remove the cover from the Master Cylinder on the Handel bar.

Attach the C clamp to one of the pistons but don’t squeeze it. *Pump the lever on the bar slowly to push out the other piston almost all the way. *Put the C clamp on that piston and push out the other one.
Bumping this because I'm just attempting it.

I've gotten this far... (admittedly I didn't remove the cover on the master at first (bolts are stripped) and this is probably the source of my problems).

I had one piston almost all the way out, moved the clamp to the almost out one and the second one started coming out but at about 1/3rd of the way it stopped. Now the lever goes to the bar without any pushing power. Air in the lines.

So I put my new master cylinder on and removed the top, using the C clamp I pushed the 1/3rd out piston back in and watched air come up in to the master. The other piston I get about halfway back in to the caliper and then it fights me too hard. Still nothing in the brake lever.

Tried to loosen the bleeder screw and bleed it and nothing is coming out.

Any ideas? @Motofool you're wise beyond your years... any experience here?
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Old August 30th, 2015, 12:59 AM   #13
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rebuilding is pretty much replacing the rubbers, search www.ronayers.com to fine all the rubber you need. if that is not the rubber you are looking for try trojan.
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Old August 30th, 2015, 08:13 AM   #14
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Max, can you bring it over to my house this morning? Patti is coming over in an hour to work on her nsr. We can fix your brakes easily. Text me.
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Old August 30th, 2015, 10:28 AM   #15
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Bumping this because I'm just attempting it.
.......... Any ideas? @Motofool you're wise beyond your years... any experience here?
Sorry, I may not fully understand the problem.

You are trying to replace seals of the caliper.
In order to do that, the pistons must be out.

If air or more fluid is not coming into the reservoir, the pistons will not be out.

If you installed a new master cylinder and reservoir, which is now opened to atmospheric pressure, and pistons still refuse to be pulled out, then internal crude is the problem.

Grabbing each cylinder with a plier protected with a piece of leather, will allow you to rotate it while gently pulling out.

If they don't go still, I would inject brake cleaner fluid into the caliper after disconnecting the hose, letting it to dissolve the internal crude.

Do not force the steel pistons because the cylinders are soft aluminum and could be dented, ruining the proper gap between those.
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Old August 30th, 2015, 12:03 PM   #16
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If one has access to an air compressor, you could under extreme caution use that to drive the pistons out, but it requires you to remove the caliper.
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Old August 30th, 2015, 12:31 PM   #17
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Lookin in to trying this air compressor thing. I've also discovered that 1) my pistons are fairly pitted and 2) new pistons are rapey expensive. ($60..each) So I'll be buying random eBay caliper and hoping those are in better shape
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Old August 30th, 2015, 12:51 PM   #18
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Pitting is bad only if interfering with the seals.

Please, take a look at this:
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Brake_caliper_rebuild
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Old August 30th, 2015, 01:06 PM   #19
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Could also use a grease gun to free the pistons

As far as pitting, my write-up covers that.
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Old August 31st, 2015, 04:43 PM   #20
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@cookiebug79 helped me pop them out really quickly with an air compressor - she's the best!

I've gotten the pistons cleaned up well enough. Replacing the seals was very easy too. Thanks everybody!
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Old August 31st, 2015, 04:45 PM   #21
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Good deal
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Old August 31st, 2015, 04:54 PM   #22
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Kudos to @cookiebug79 !!!
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Old August 31st, 2015, 05:06 PM   #23
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useful thread, I may need to rebuild my calipers this winter. I'll attempt a deep cleaning first (unfortunately I don't have time to do that at the moment)
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Old August 31st, 2015, 05:43 PM   #24
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Glad to get you going, Max!
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Old September 3rd, 2015, 08:46 AM   #25
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Max, Did you use a new OEM master cylinder or something better?
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Old September 3rd, 2015, 06:16 PM   #26
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OEM. Don't see much point in spending the money for better when we should barely be braking anyway.
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Old September 3rd, 2015, 09:38 PM   #27
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not gonna lie, i don't plan on using brakes much.
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Old September 5th, 2015, 06:15 PM   #28
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a supply of new brake fluid.
Is all brake fluid the same, or is there something specific for bikes?
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Old September 6th, 2015, 04:19 AM   #29
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Is all brake fluid the same, or is there something specific for bikes?
Stay away from DOT 5, it's silicone based, but DOT 5.1 is okay, because it synthetic based. DOT. 3&4 are also fine.

The difference between DOT 3,4,&5.1 are the boiling points. If your hard on the brakes, that increases the temperature, I also recommend flush and fill with new brake fluid, also I'd go with 5.1DOT

This is the one I use



https://m.motul.com/ca/en-us/product...-1-brake-fluid
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File Type: pdf DOT_5.1_Brake_Fluid_(GB).pdf (17.9 KB, 0 views)
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Old September 6th, 2015, 04:27 AM   #30
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Here's some more information on the subject,

You can convert to DOT 5, which is silicone based, but you MUST flush the system, tons of how-to's out there, I went with DOT 5.1 which is synthetic based, and 100% compatible with DOT 3&4 systems, without all the fuss, but a better fluid.
I tried the Motul in SERENITY when I got her and rebuilt everything, so far so good. I don't know if I really needed it, but it nice to have it, just in case.

https://m.motul.com/ca/en-us/product...-1-brake-fluid


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We retain the right to modify the general characteristics of our products in order to offer to our customers the latest technical development.
Product specifications are not definitive from the order which is subject to our general conditions of sale and warranty. – Made in France
MOTUL . 119 Bd Félix Faure - 93303 AUBERVILLIERS CEDEX - BP 94 - Tel 33 1 48 11 70 00 - FAX 33 1 48 33 28 79 . Web Site: www.motul.fr 12/08
DOT 5.1 Brake Fluid
Long life 100% Synthetic Fluid
For hydraulic actuated brake and clutch systems
DOT 5.1 NON SILICONE BASE
TYPE OF USE
All types of hydraulic actuated brake and clutch systems in accordance with DOT 5.1, DOT 4
and DOT 3 manufacturers’ recommendations.
Fluidity specially designed for anti-locking brake systems (ABS).
PERFORMANCE
STANDARDS : FMVSS 116 DOT 5.1 NON SILICONE BASE, DOT 4 and DOT 3
SAE J 1703
ISO 4925 (5.1, 4 & 3)
Long life fluid:
The high wet boiling point (185°C / 365°F), superior to DOT 4 (155°C / 311°F mini) and DOT 3 (140°C /
284°F mini) conventional fluids enables to use this product longer. Indeed, DOT 3 / DOT 4 and DOT 5.1
brake fluids have the property to absorb humidity contained in the air, which reduces their boiling points
and consequently security.
The wet boiling point is representative of the fluid after one year of use.
Specially designed for anti-locking brake systems (ABS):
The viscosity (820 centipoises at -40°C / -40°F) lower than DOT 4 (up to 1800 cp) and DOT 3 (up to
1500 cp) brake fluids allows an easier fluid circulation in micro-valves of anti-locking systems.
Perfectly neutral with seals used in braking systems. Anti-corrosion.
RECOMMENDATIONS
Mixable with DOT 3, DOT 4 and DOT 5.1 NON SILICONE BASE products.
Do not mix with silicone (DOT 5 silicone base) or mineral base fluids (LHM).
Store brake fluid in its original container, tightly closed to avoid absorption of moisture.
Aggressive chemical product if contact with hands, paint or varnish.
If skin contact, rinse thoroughly with water.
Drain Interval: 12 to 24 month as per manufacturers’ recommendations.
PROPERTIES
100% synthetic fluid, polyglycol bases.
Color Yellow
Dry boiling point 272 °C / 522 °F
Wet boiling point 185 °C / 365 °F
Viscosity at -40°C (-40°F) 820 mm²/s
Viscosity at 100°C (212°F) 2.1 mm²/s
Found this http://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/brakefluids.html

Quote:
BRAKE FLUIDS
by Lorne Goldman
Automotive braking is the an important factor in performance car building. A wise man once told me that your life depends on good tyres and good brakes. Thinkers pay an equal amount of attention to stopping as they do to making their vehicles go fast, becau without the former, the latter is cannot be effectively enjoyed. Here's a fact that not too many realize: when you step on the brakes, you command a stopping force that's 10 times as powerful as the force that puts the car in motion. Hard to believe isn't it? No wonder the performance brake market has been vying for and finally receiving our attention. But now that they've educated us in the importance of quality components, it's now time to pay attention to the fluid that activates and allows these components to work.

It only makes sense that after you've spent big bucks and a lot of time upgrading your vehicle, the completion of your job must go beyond adding just any old fluid into the system. It's extremely important to always use a high quality fluid. Let's face it, that quart of Elmo's Wonder Brake Fluid & Windshield Washer Solvent combo you picked up at the swap meet may end up as the only thing between the ball of your foot and a brick wall. So, let's at least pay a fraction of the attention spent on choosing components on choosing brake fluid. The following information should help you better understand the differences between various types of fluids.

FLUID REQUIREMENTS

Brake fluid must function through heat, cold, and all the variations of temperatures affecting all brake systems. In other words, brake fluid must be and must remain viscous (fluid) and resistant to severe conditions. It must also absorb water without having an affinity for doing so. Brake fluid must be pure and contain no contaminants, which will have a harmful effect on rubber components. It also should serve as a lubricant for the moving parts in a brake system and be able to withstand time and service--in other words, its boiling point and chemical properties must remain stable. One more important factor is that brake fluid should not cause an electrolytic action that will decompose or degrade metal brake parts.

FLUID CLASSIFICATIONS

These factors are taken into consideration by the Department of Transportation, National Highway Safety Administration in Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 116. FMVSS116-classified fluids fall into four categories: DOT 3, DOT 4, and DOT 5 and now DOT 5.1. DOT 3 meets their minimum specifications and was used in 90% of US made vehicles in 2007. DOT 4, 5 and DOT 5.1 meet more stringent requirements. The purpose of these requirements is "to reduce failures in the hydraulic brake systems of motor vehicles which may occur because of the manufacture or use of improper or contaminated brake fluid." In addition to setting the minimum wet and dry boiling points for all brake fluids, Federal Standard 116 deals with fluid viscosity, temperature and chemical stability, corrosiveness, water tolerance, compatibility (between formulations), and effects on brake system components.

WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?

It seems logical that if DOT 3 is good enough then DOT 4 must be better. And, if DOT 4 is better, then DOT 5 and DOT 5.1 must be better still. OK then, is that so? It all boils (pun!) down to boiling point. When brake fluid begins to boil (from the heat that's generated in the system during braking) it forms gas bubbles. As these bubbles collect and grow, they form pockets of gas in the system. And since gas is much easier to compress than fluid, these pockets cause the pedal to easily compress or go soft. This is what as known as a spongy pedal--a condition that causes the heart to race.

WATCHPOINT: How can you tell whether you have Silicone brake fluid and normal brake fluids in your system? Many will tell you that Silicone has a blue or purple tinge. But this is only true before it has been used. Once exposed, it will turn clear or yellowish and can eaily be mistaken for normal fluid. One can attempt to distinguish its properties by seeing if it will blend with water (shake the two together in a bottle) or with oil. If it cannot blend with water it is silicone. If it can blend with oil, it is silicone. I prefer the paint test method.. Place a bit of the unknown brake fluid on a painted sample. If the paint is undamaged the next day, the fluid is silicone based. If it is wrinkled and peeling, it is a normal non-silicone fluid.
BOILING POINTS

The following chart shows the aforementioned FMVSS116 minimum boiling points. These boiling points are the biggest difference in the fluid classifications. You'll notice there are two points for each classification of fluid. The dry boiling point is for fresh fluid that has not yet absorbed moisture. The wet boiling point is for fluid that has been in use (or in an opened container) long enough for it to absorb moisture from the atmosphere.

The different DOT spec fluids have chemical or formulation differences, as well as boiling point differences. There are (at this point) four commercial formulations for brake fluids; three are glycol-based and the third is silicone-based. DOT 3 brake fluids are a mixture of polyalkylene glycol ether and other glycols (all start life as ethylene glycol--antifreeze); DOT 4 and DOT 5.1 fluids add borate esters to raise the boiling point. DOT 5 is silicone oil based with additives.

DOT 5 SILICONE BASED BRAKE FLUID (SBBF)

The U.S. DOT defines silicone brake fluid as that which consists of no less than 70 percent of adiorgano polysiloxane by weight. Silicone-based fluids are regarded as DOT 5 fluids. They are highly compressible and can give the driver the feeling of a spongy pedal. The higher the brake system temperature, the more the compressibility of the fluid--increasing the feeling of a spongy pedal. Silicone-based fluids are non-hydroscopic, meaning that they will not absorb or mix with water. When water is present in the brake system, it will create a water/fluid/water/fluid situation. Because water boils at approximately 212 degrees F, the ability of the brake system to operate correctly decreases, and the steam created from boiling water adds air to the system. It is important to remember that water may be present in any brake system. Therefore, silicone brake fluid lacks the ability to deal with moisture and will dramatically decrease a brake systems performance. Silicone brake fluid has a number of strengths and drawbacks.

DOT 5 Strengths:

1) It has a high boiling point since it does not absorb water. Therefore, there's no so-called wet boiling point.

2) Doesn't absorb moisture.

3) Doesn't remove paint.

4) The viscosity is more stable over the extremes of temperature.

5) With the exception of some formulations used in external boots, silicone brake fluid is compatible with all standard brake components.

DOT 5 Drawbacks:

1) It's hard to pour without entraining air bubbles--hence an application will generally have a softer, spongier pedal feel.

2) It doesn't absorb water, so any water already in the system accumulates in the lowest point of the system and stays there, causing rust.

3) Glycol fluids begin to compress near their boiling points, whereas silicone fluids begin to compress at around 300-350 degrees Fahrenheit.

4) Additives in the fluid can vaporize at comparatively moderate temperature, increasing the spongy feel.

5) Silicone fluids expand significantly when hot.

6) Silicone fluid is functionally incompatible with systems that have held glycol-based fluids for any length of time, requiring flushing and seal replacement (there are counter opinions on this, which state that the modern silicone formulations are in fact compatible with only a flushing, rather than a complete reseal). The actual DOT specification requires chemical compatibility, so as far as that goes, the two fluids won't cause reactions if used in the same system, but they certainly won't mix, either.

7) It's pretty much incompatible with anti-lock brakes because the silicone fluids tend to be more viscous, which can cause problems with the timing of the pulses that are intended to work with the thinner glycol-base fluid. This sometimes leads to damage of the ABS valving. The rapid pulsing necessary to anti-lock functions tend to cavitate the fluid, as the tiny bubbles collapse and coalesce into larger ones, and then collapse and reform into smaller ones. This tends to counteract the ABS effect and can diminish the actual effective braking. This condition also heats the fluid and can lead to even more sponginess and possible damage to the ABS controller. Thirdly, silicone brake fluid tends to foam when expressed from a small orifice under pressure, reducing its hydraulic effectiveness greatly.

Castrol GT LMA

This is one of the LMA brake fluids. LMA stands for "low moisture activity" and it fulfills this feature well. It has the same boiling points as DOT 4. It is DOT 3 and DOT 4 compatible.

DOT 5.1 (not to be confused with DOT 5!)

DOT 5.1 is another polyalkylene glycol ether and borate ester combination. However, in this case, the mixture can sustain even higher heats than DOT 5 without a mushy feeling. It is also compatible with DOT 3 and DOT 4 brake fluids. It can be bought at NAPA under Part #51032 for 32ozs and Part #51012 for 12ozs.


FLUID TYPE DRY BOILING POINT WET BOILING POINT
DOT 3 205°C (401°F) 140°C (284°F)
DOT 4 230°C (446°F) 155°C (311°F)
Castrol GT LMA 230°C (446°F) 155°C (311°F)
DOT 5 (silicone) 260°C (500°F) 180°C (356°F)
DOT 5.1 270°C (518°F) 191°C (375°F)
There are other more effective fluids, Ford Heavy Duty DOT 3, ATE Super Blue Racing, ATE TYP 200, Motul Racing 600, Castrol SRF, Performance Friction, etc but the price is not justified for a road car.

Brake Fluid Primer

DOT 3

DOT 4

DOT 5

DOT 5.1

N.B. There are many racing fluids available..bringing the price and the quality of DOT 3 and DOT 4 far beyond the standard fluids.

DOT 3
DOT 3 brake fluid is the "conventional" brake fluid used in most vehicles.

Advantages:

It is inexpensive, and available at most gas stations, department stores, and any auto parts store.

It is completely compatible with DOT 3 and DOT 5.1.

Disadvantages:



It eats paint.

It absorbs water very readily. Accordingly, once a container of DOT 3 has been opened, it should not be stored for periods much longer than a week before use.

It is NOT compatible with Dot 5 whatsoever and should never be mixed. A safe switch from DOT 3/DOT 4/DOT 5.1 to DOT 5 requires a complete flush of the braking system and a change of all seals in the hydraulic system.

Maintenance

Flush every 2 years.



DOT 4
Advantages:

It is available at most auto parts stores, and gas stations and department stores.

It does not absorb water as readily as DOT 3 fluid.

It has a higher boiling point than DOT 3 fluid, making it more suitable for high performance applications where the brake systems are expected to get hot.

It is completely compatible with DOT 3 and DOT 5.1.

Disadvantages:

It eats paint.

It is about 50% more expensive than DOT 3 fluid. (One brand is the easily found Castrol LMA)

It is NOT compatible with Dot 5 whatsoever and should never be mixed. A safe switch from DOT 3/DOT 4/DOT 5.1 to DOT 5 requires a complete flush of the braking system and a change of all seals in the hydraulic system.

Maintenance

Flush every 2 years.



DOT 5
DOT 5 brake fluid is also known as "silicone" brake fluid. It was designed for the US Army, who has requested permission to stop using it.

Advantages:

It does not eat paint or skin.

It does not absorb water (BUT!!! See more on this under disadvantages, below.)

It has a higher boiling point than DOT 3 and DOT 4.

It is compatible with all rubber formulations.

It is a good choice for Concours cars which are rarely driven and/or never driven hard.

Disadvantages:

It does NOT mix with DOT3 or DOT 4 or DOT 5.1. Most reported problems with DOT 5 are probably due to some degree of mixing with other fluid types. A residue of the former non-compatible fluid is sufficient to cause serious issues. The best way to convert to DOT 5 is to totally rebuild the hydraulic system. Additionally, the same advice applies if switching from Dot 5 to any of the other fluids.

Since DOT 5 does not absorb water, any moisture in the hydraulic system will "puddle" in one place. This can cause localized corrosion in the hydraulics.

Careful bleeding is required to get all of the air out of the system. It is hard to you without introducing bubbles and thus results in soft pedal feel. These small bubbles will form large bubbles over time. It may be necessary to do a series of bleeds.

DOT 5 is less compressible (often creating a slightly softer pedal). It is not recommended for racing application.
It is hard to pour without introducing bubbles and thus results in soft pedal feel,

It is not recommended by the brake manufacturer, especially for ABS brakes.

It is about twice as expensive as DOT 4 fluid.

So silicone fluid aerates easily. Harley-Davison, one of the sole current OEM users of silicone fluid, warns buyers to let the fluid sit at least an hour before using it. If shaken on the way home, it will aerate enough to look like a freshly poured soft drink. Silicone fluid is also slightly more compressible than glycol fluid, does not change color to tip the user to its moisture content, and worst of all, neither accepts or disperses moisture, making systems using it more corrosion prone, and requiring much more frequent fluid changes. Silicone brake fluid also lacks glycol fluid's naturally occurring lubricity, making it incompatible with the mechanical valving in some anti-lock braking systems.




Dot 5.1
DOT5.1 is a relatively new brake fluid that is causing no end of confusion amongst mechanics. The DOT could avoided a lot of confusion by giving this new fluid a different designation. The 5.1 designation could lead one to believe that it's a modification of silicone-based DOT 5 brake fluid. Calling it 4.1 or 6 might have been more appropriate since it's a glycol-based fluid like the DOT 3 and 4 types, not silicone-based like DOT 5 fluid.

As far as the basic behavior of 5.1 fluids, they are much like "high performance" DOT 4 fluids.

Advantages:

It provides superior performance over all the other brake fluids discussed here. It has a higher boiling point, either dry or wet, than DOT 3 or 4 or even DOT 5. In fact, its dry boiling point (about 275 degrees C) is almost as high as racing fluid (about 300 degrees C) and 5.1's wet boiling point (about 175 to 200 degrees C) is naturally much higher than racing's (about 145 C).

It is compatible with all rubber formulations.

It is completely compatible with DOT 3 and DOT 4 making an upgrade from either easy..

Disadvantages:

It will absorb water.
It will eat paint.
It is more difficult to find for sale, typically at very few auto parts stores. Try NAPA #NBF51012
It is mildly more expensive than DOT3 or DOT4.

It is NOT compatible with Dot 5 whatsoever and should NEVER be mixed. A safe switch from DOT 3/DOT 4/DOT 5.1 to DOT 5 requires a complete flush of the braking system and a change of all seals in the hydraulic system.
Also......

Quote:
WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DOT 5 AND DOT 5.1 BRAKE FLUID?
DOT 5 is a silicone based synthetic fluid originally designed for use in military and government vehicles where regular maintenance could be problematic. Although not hygroscopic in the traditional sense, water molecules will still find their way into your hydraulics creating globules rather than being suspended as with traditional DOT 3/4 & 5.1 fluids…the end result is the same: contamination. DOT 5 Silicone was never intended for serious high performance application. Harley Davidson uses it I suspect because it won't ruin your paint if you're all thumbs and miss the toilet a lot. Interesting aside; HD's sporting wing; Buell, has switched to a higher performance DOT 4 in all their 2000 models. DOT 5.1, albeit confusing in designation (thank the D.O.T. for that), is effectively a lighter viscosity synthetic poly glycol fluid with DOT 4 performance parameters. It was developed for use in mechanical ABS systems that require a higher cyclic rate capability.
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Old September 6th, 2015, 06:32 PM   #31
Kurgan
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Holy giant wall O text Brake Man ! ! !

DoT 5.1 it is then, it's time for new pads and the front brake is feeling less grabby than it used to be. I have to squeeze more than twice as hard as I used to for the same amount of braking. The rear feels like it grabs better than the front right now.
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Old September 6th, 2015, 06:38 PM   #32
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LOL yeah it was. Be sure to service the calipers as well, my write-up is further up this thread. Resist the urge to just pop in the pads and go. Calipers must be serviced every time when changing brake pads.
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