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Old March 3rd, 2012, 08:43 AM   #81
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Besides not having a vise, that was another reason i figured to use the method i did to loosen the alen bolt
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Old March 18th, 2012, 02:04 AM   #82
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Anyone know why supersports have inverted forks? Doesn't that expose more of the debris-sensitive area and put more weight up high? Even Buell does it as part of their "mass centralization" trilogy of tech mantra but it seems that normal positioning with the bulk of the weight just above the tire would be more "central" when it comes to leaning.
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Old March 18th, 2012, 02:08 AM   #83
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i have no clue. im sure someone can chime in
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Old March 18th, 2012, 05:07 AM   #84
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Probably just to sell you more expensive seals.
A friend of mine had a 1980's-something yamaha cruiser with inverted forks and replacing the seals was a common occurrence. After his bad experience with inverted forks, I wouldn't be in a rush to buy another bike that had them.
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Old March 18th, 2012, 10:02 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by CZroe View Post
Anyone know why supersports have inverted forks?
I'll self-quote from another thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex View Post
The two main benefits of USD forks are that they are stiffer in the tripletree to provide better control, and there is less unsprung weight as the smaller lower legs are lighter. Less unsprung weight means the suspension can be tuned better across the board, but helps the most for high-speed damping.

But whether those theoretical advantages become actual benefits on streetbikes, it's certainly up for debate. Some great handling bikes continue to use conventional forks happily, but for all-out sportbikes, it's a hard sell if they don't have the now ubiquitous USD design.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 10:54 AM   #86
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Attached is a printable PDF version of ShortStuff's DIY from post #1 of this thread.

The original PDF file was truncated and difficult to read. This one was manually created so hopefully I didn't leave anything out.

Thanks ShortStuff for this very informative DIY.
Thanks! Paging @Alex! OP ed on aisle three!
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Old March 19th, 2012, 02:47 PM   #87
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fixed
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Old March 19th, 2012, 04:41 PM   #88
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Well, I forgot to remove the caps first. Any way to take it all apart from below?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex View Post
fixed
Thanks kindly!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla25 View Post
Just got done not too long ago. Total time apx 4 hrs. disassembly and reassembly honestly took WAY longer than the actual changing of the seals. I've been posting and updating for a while but it seems like im just talking to myself. oh well. some day someone will actually read this and may be able to pick up a tip or two.

about getting that allen bolt loose on the bottom of the forks...I figured out a way to get it loose without putting it in a vise..mainly because i dont have one. i haven't found this method while searching so i'll type it out and try to describe because i did not have a second set of hands to take pictures.

This step is done before removing the forks from the tripple tree. Once you have the front tire off, put the allen wrench into one of the bolts. Now slide the axle bolt back on from the other fork to the one you are working on. push bolt until it touches the allen wrench. This keeps the fork from rotating when breaking the bolt loose. Now get something that can give you leverage, if you dont already have, then just break the bolt loose. Dont screw it out or even couple turns. oil will def. leak out. now repeat for the other side and continue with removing the forks etc.. heres a pic for the visual people:



EDIT: the 10w oil does stiffen up the front just a touch. will decide later if i still will do the preload adjuster DIY or not.
Should we protect the threads on the axle with some electrical tape or something? I thought about it but forgot to. *shrug*
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Old March 19th, 2012, 07:58 PM   #89
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Come to think of it, its a great idea. too bad i never thought of doing so.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 10:26 PM   #90
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I'm glad I read the FAQ from Ninja250.org as well.

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_...aps/pistons%3F

Their suggestion of a (gear/sink tap/2-jaw/battery terminal/wiper) puller still requires something attached to the forks for it to pull on, like the triple tree, but one of their pics showed something that looks very similar to the SV650 clip-ons I bought but never installed. They require shimming to fit right, so I don't think attaching them would be the best idea, except that I also have Woodcraft clip-ons that I was waiting to install after all this.

Now, I just need this $5 gear puller. Someone added their two cents to the FAQ about not bothering with all that and just pushing down with a socket. Well, that's what I already tried with help and not only could I not get it low enough to see the clip, I marred up the cap.

$5 is worth it, IMO.

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Come to think of it, its a great idea. too bad i never thought of doing so.
Not that it damaged the threads but, obviously, if it's going to keep the fork from turning it will be putting pressure on them.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 10:39 PM   #91
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grab a philips screw driver and press down on that plug thing. then with your free hand, pry the clip out with a precision flat head screw driver.

edit: is your bike on a tripple tree stand? you cannot have any pressure on the forks when doing this. that plug thing wont move much, but will move enough so you can remove that clip
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Old March 19th, 2012, 11:18 PM   #92
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I seen something like this on mines. I gotta check my forks again....=(
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Old March 20th, 2012, 12:16 AM   #93
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grab a philips screw driver and press down on that plug thing. then with your free hand, pry the clip out with a precision flat head screw driver.

edit: is your bike on a tripple tree stand? you cannot have any pressure on the forks when doing this. that plug thing wont move much, but will move enough so you can remove that clip
A screwdriver handle was actually the first thing I tried!

Yes, it is on a head stand, but the stand's suspending pin holder arm is bending and if I tried putting extra weight on it while it's on the triple I'd be asking for more trouble. I tried pressing down on the plug when off the bike while someone held the fork up for me but the fork would move down and the plug would not move far enough to get the clip. I did not realize that you couldn't have pressure on the forks.

I'm going to throw on the Woodcraft clip-ons and use one of those puller things tomorrow. I have to go buy the PVC for hammering the stuff back together anyway (I assume these puller things are sold at the same hardware stores that sell PVC pipe). Thanks for all the help/ideas/suggestions!
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Old March 20th, 2012, 01:57 AM   #94
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...while someone held the fork up for me but the fork would move down and the plug would not move far enough to get the clip.
So you loosened the tripple? if so, you're supposed to leave it tightened when taking out the clips

anyways. let us know how it does tomorrow
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Old March 20th, 2012, 02:16 AM   #95
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So you loosened the tripple? if so, you're supposed to leave it tightened when taking out the clips

anyways. let us know how it does tomorrow
Right. It was off the bike. I knew I goofed. When I said "Well, I forgot to remove the caps first. Any way to take it all apart from below?" I thought it was implied.

Anyway, ninja250.org's procedure out-right says to take them off first,...

Quote:
  • Loosen all bolts (axle, brakes, triples ~ on bikes other than the 250, loosen fork caps)
  • Remove wheel and brakes (DO NOT leave brake calipers hanging by the brake lines. Tie them securely with wire.)
  • Remove forks (always measure/mark the height ~ and on bikes other than the 250, measure/mark the angle/location of the clip-ons)
  • Remove fork caps, and turn fork over into a bucket or other device that can hold oil
  • Pump the fork a few times to work the remaining oil out of the damping rod
  • ...
...but I can't use that as an excuse because I hadn't read it yet at that time.
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Old March 20th, 2012, 02:19 AM   #96
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ahh..i see..haha..well, if you ever have to change the seals again, now you know
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Old March 20th, 2012, 02:48 AM   #97
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ahh..i see..haha..well, if you ever have to change the seals again, now you know
Yup. Thanks a lot.

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Never use Leak Proof seals. They leak.
It occurs to me now that you may not have been saying that they are prone to leaking, but that they aren't actually "leak proof." I never thought they were, but it looks like they do have a lifetime guarantee and that's all I care about if it is something I can do myself. I think I should have ordered them. The price has actually gone down a little since then.
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 08:17 PM   #98
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A couple more questions: Are these a completely different type of fork than the pregen? I ask because the ninja250.org guide says that 5W fork oil is for a completely different kind of forks and that I should be using 10W oil at a minimum. It looks like everyone here is is saying to use 5w (common weight) or 8W (specified but generally unavailable weight), which both contradict the other guide if they aren't a different kind of forks.

Next, when I took it all apart, I found some rubbery substance around the bolts at the bottom of the forks. I cleaned it off thinking that it was bits of the paper towel I was wiping them with but realized afterwards that it was not. I will be monitoring them to see if they leak without it, but what do I use if I do have to reseal it? Is it some kind of liquid gasket? All this guide says to use is service-removable thread locker, which I assume is not a rubbery compound.
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 08:24 PM   #99
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Forks are pretty much exactly the same but the new gen has thicker walled tubes.

For a basic streetbike use 10 to 20w fork oil. not going to make much of a difference either way.
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 08:29 PM   #100
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Well, I used 5W, as stated in the OP. The forks are still off the bike, so should I buy and switch to 10W while I still have the chance? Thanks.
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 09:33 PM   #101
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If you just ride it around and don't try to corner all that fast I would not worry too much about it. It will be about the same as stock.
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 09:54 PM   #102
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If you just ride it around and don't try to corner all that fast I would not worry too much about it. It will be about the same as stock.
Thanks again. It's great to have a suspension pro to bounce questions off of.

Well, I do weigh a lot (~250lbs) but I'm working on 1/2" preload spacers. Will 5W still be OK?
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 10:41 PM   #103
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not sure about 5w because i used 10w so i cant give you a definite answer. i thought 5w was stock? *shrugs*
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Old March 23rd, 2012, 12:51 AM   #104
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not sure about 5w because i used 10w so i cant give you a definite answer. i thought 5w was stock? *shrugs*
Kawi says to use "KAYABA SS-8," which I saw some people refer to as 8W and some people guess that it was a 10W oil.
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Old March 23rd, 2012, 05:46 AM   #105
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I'm confused: Anyone have any idea why the service manual has a torque spec for the fork caps that are held in by a clip? I can't imagine how you are supposed to apply the torque.
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Old March 23rd, 2012, 06:34 AM   #106
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hhmmmm...i have no idea
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Old March 24th, 2012, 05:57 AM   #107
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...
Next, when I took it all apart, I found some rubbery substance around the bolts at the bottom of the forks. I cleaned it off thinking that it was bits of the paper towel I was wiping them with but realized afterwards that it was not. I will be monitoring them to see if they leak without it, but what do I use if I do have to reseal it? Is it some kind of liquid gasket? All this guide says to use is service-removable thread locker, which I assume is not a rubbery compound.
The service manual says to use "Non-permanent Locking Agent" on those bolts ("front fork bottom Allen bolt"). Is there a rubbery kind of locking agent? It seems more like a kind of liquid gasket.
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Old March 24th, 2012, 06:47 AM   #108
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or some kind of liquid teflon tape. honestly, i did not put anything on those threads. so far, no leaks but if they start leaking, well....
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Old March 24th, 2012, 07:47 AM   #109
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or some kind of liquid teflon tape. honestly, i did not put anything on those threads. so far, no leaks but if they start leaking, well....
But did you take anything off? Honestly, I wouldn't be concerned either except that I took off the rubbery stuff that was already on there when cleaning them.

In the service manual, they say to "install a new Allen bolt gasket" with each fork dis-assembly. I looked and that references the little crush washer on each. It didn't say anything about any kind of liquid gasket but did say to use service-removable thread locker. The ninja250.org fork seal replacement guide directly contradicts this by saying "do not, under any circumstance, put thread locker/loctite on that screw... or any other chemical, for that matter. It's just asking for trouble, and it will make the forks nearly impossible to disassemble in the future."

*Sigh* The world is just out to get obsessive-compulsive types.

If they start leaking then... SELF-OILING AXLE!
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Old March 24th, 2012, 10:28 AM   #110
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well, i did put it kinda tight on there so hopefully it don't leak...and hopefully uts un torque spec.
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Old March 24th, 2012, 01:39 PM   #111
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Thanks for the write up!
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Old March 25th, 2012, 04:17 PM   #112
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I've just followed the write up to fix my fork oil leak. It took sometime but I managed to remove the forks, drain oil and put them back. When I put things back together I've a problem. After I put the brake caliper back, I realized that the rotor was very far away from 1 side of the brake pad, so even when I applied the brake, that pad did not touch the rotor. What did I do wrong ?

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Old March 25th, 2012, 05:18 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capriccio View Post
I've just followed the write up to fix my fork oil leak. It took sometime but I managed to remove the forks, drain oil and put them back. When I put things back together I've a problem. After I put the brake caliper back, I realized that the rotor was very far away from 1 side of the brake pad, so even when I applied the brake, that pad did not touch the rotor. What did I do wrong ?

Is there a gap down at the axle? If not, perhaps you have the spacers reversed or you just need to pump the brake a few times? Be careful: You don't want to bend your rotor because you compressed it when it wasn't aligned.
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Old March 26th, 2012, 02:41 AM   #114
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Old March 27th, 2012, 07:02 AM   #115
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I've checked. There is no gap down at the axle, the spacer is in place but the brake pads and rotor are still not aligned.
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Old March 27th, 2012, 08:37 AM   #116
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I've checked. There is no gap down at the axle, the spacer is in place but the brake pads and rotor are still not aligned.
It looks like the spacer is supposed to be on the right but the fat side goes against the fork and not the tire. If you get this backwards, the tire will be forced to the left and the brake will not align. The only way I can see it having room to move left is if you left the speedometer pickup off the left side. If you can, check these.
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Old April 13th, 2012, 09:28 AM   #117
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I figure I need to post update in case anyone interested.
After removing my brake caliper, I learnt that these suckers (see picture, white arrows) were stuck, hence the caliper cannot move from side to side (green arrow) to center the pads.

So, long story short, I set out to change fork seals and ended up changing brake fluid, new brake pads, a stainless steel brake line.
The forks are looking good, haven't leaked yet !
Took me a week or so to get all the parts. Longest fork seal changing ever !!!
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Old April 13th, 2012, 04:20 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by capriccio View Post
I figure I need to post update in case anyone interested.
After removing my brake caliper, I learnt that these suckers (see picture, white arrows) were stuck, hence the caliper cannot move from side to side (green arrow) to center the pads.

So, long story short, I set out to change fork seals and ended up changing brake fluid, new brake pads, a stainless steel brake line.
The forks are looking good, haven't leaked yet !
Took me a week or so to get all the parts. Longest fork seal changing ever !!!
You say that, but mine is still up on stands with now front wheel. I just haven't had time and can't work after dark.
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Old May 19th, 2012, 07:43 PM   #119
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Just wanted to say, since no one is really clear what weight oil should be used,that I was looking around for fork oil and the manual says to use kayaba ss-8 or equivalent. If honda is to be trusted ss-8 is a 10w fork oil (I picked up honda's ss-8 oil to change the fork oil). I found that ss-7 is a 5w oil. So assuming this is some sort of Japanese nomenclature 10w is whats in the forks.
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Old May 20th, 2012, 05:36 AM   #120
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I found my forks too squishy so I used 15w. Much stiffer now.
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