Timing chain jumped - Curious about shop quote

[goldfox]

A few weeks back, I was riding home ('06 250) from work when there was a thunk (mostly felt instead of heard), and the bike died on me. It wouldn't start up again at all. I was able to coast into a parking lot and got someone to come over with a truck to get me home.

I took it to a shop to get it looked at, and just got the news that the timing chain apparently jumped time, but didn't break or stretch - however, it caused a piston to hit a valve, so I'll have to get them replaced (no other damage, apparently!)

I was quoted about $600-$650 for the job, and wanted to run it by everyone here to see if that sounds fair. I have the funds to fix it, but wanted to be sure I wasn't being overcharged, since this is my first time having to take it to a shop.

Thanks!

[dcj13]

Sounds reasonable to me: several hours work, plus piston(s) and valve(s), a timing chain tensioner, and maybe a timing chain and sprocket(s).

[SLOWn60]

That's the cost of a basic BMW service on my F800GS!

[Racer x]

The price sounds good. But what exactly are they doing? I assume you like the bike and want to fix it and keep it.

The tentioner should be replaced and all that looked at since it it the most likely cause of the timing chain to jump.

If the Pistons hit the valves the valves are bent. So they will replace them. They will have to pull the engine to replace the timing chain.

This is my parts list if I was fixing the bike to keep. Now you might not really need everything on my list. But I'm just saying what I would replace. If the bike is low mileage and the chain is OK then it makes a big difference in the labor.
I'd replace
Pistons /Rings
Valves
Valve stem seals
Base gasket
Head gasket
Valve cover gasket
Timing chain tentioner
Timing chain. You need to split the case to do this.
Oil filter
Antifreeze
Gasket goop
Break clean
Plugs
Labor to pull the engine clean up the whole thing
Replace all the parts . Adjust the valves
Might as well throw in some new plugs.
Then assemble the bike adjust the clutch.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by goldfox

........ (no other damage, apparently!)
.........

Nobody can know that until surgery is ongoing.

Please, see these:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=118986

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=129657

Consider a replacement used engine.

Very sorry to read about the damage.

[Ninjinsky]

It is home mechanic stuff that if you are moderately competent you could do yourself for a lot less. especially using pattern parts since it is a relatively old bike now. You might have to get a workshop to fit and ream valve guides if damaged.
Mechanics time is what always inflates garage repairs If you add all kawasaki factory parts the bill is normal. (By normal I do not mean reasonable).
So 'phone around a bit.
Last week I was quoted £220 by a main dealer for a CV joint replacement on my car, a local workshop did it for £65 (£30 factor joint + £35 labor)

PS Your post is a timely reminder for people to learn the care and feeding of the Ninjette camchain tensioner.

[goldfox]

Thanks for all of the replies, everyone! I'm also sad to have had this happen. I do like the bike, though I hope to sell/part it off and get a factory new bike within the next 6-12 months. I'd love to keep the bike until then if possible, and hopefully this repair will get the bike to last me that long.

I definitely know that most of the cost ends up being the labor involved in fixing everything. I'll talk to the shop about which parts they're replacing/adjusting when they open again. I know that they are doing the valves and pistons for sure, though.

[Zombiphone]

Am I really the only one who is going to point out that the cost of picking up a good used engine, especially for a pre-gen (But also for the newgen) is substantially less than $600?

[quarterliter]

Originally Posted by Zombiphone

Am I really the only one who is going to point out that the cost of picking up a good used engine, especially for a pre-gen (But also for the newgen) is substantially less than $600?

That is a much better idea....I bought an 05 engine and carbs for a little over 100 dollars.

[spooph]

The big ticket item on this engine repair is labor, as they have to split the cases to replace the cam chain, which means the entire engine has to come apart. If they are not replacing the chain, it's a much faster fix.

What bothers me is that the cam chain skipped, but you didn't hear any rattling/clunking beforehand. It's REALLY hard for these cam chains to skip a tooth with as many followers and guides as they have.

My vote goes for another engine as well. At the very least, this engine has to be pulled apart completely and looked at thoroughly so it doesn't happen again.

I also know somebody who has an extra engine. PM me if you're interested!

[Ninjinsky]

The problem with the secondhand engine route is trust.
Ironically the best bet is one from a crashed bike because you know the engine was okay (check mounting lugs though)

[goldfox]

I agree with @Ninjinsky about the trust issue. In addition to trust that they aren't hiding the damage to get rid of an old engine, they might be unaware of any damage that might be inside. Of course, I'm still putting some trust in the bike shop, that they are going to do the job correctly and thoroughly, but I would like to think that they have a bit more of a reputation to uphold (maybe).

I do understand that there might be more expense this way, but even if the engine is cheap (I didn't do in-depth shopping, but an initial eBay search came up with $350+ for engines (maybe they are including the massive shipping cost? ). On top of that, I'm not sure I have the mechanical prowess to check all the things on the new motor and install it myself, so I'd likely have to take it to the shop to have them do it for me and pay the labor costs. Maybe it'd be easier than I thought, but I didn't feel comfortable digging into the engine itself. I've done most basic maintenance myself, oil change, carb rebuild, valve sync - but I don't feel confident enough for open heart surgery

The shop opens again tomorrow (they close Sundays and Mondays during hunting season), so I'll find out the answers to the questions about parts being replaced then.

[Zombiphone]

If you don't mind the added expense, then by all means. These bikes are normally pretty reliable and get ridden by beginners who don't ride legitimately hard, so it's not that high risk if you look for lower mileage engines. More cheap used engines for the rest of us though

It sounded like cost was a factor for you, so I was just telling you how the frugal and broke among us manage to continue riding in worst case scenarios

[alex.s]

does $650 even cover the cost of the parts? sounds suspiciously cheap. the new engine route seems like a better option

[goldfox]

Well, it's been 7 weeks, and the cycle shop hasn't completed the work. I'm a bit worried that they are either not spending any time on it, or are incompetent.

During the first 3 weeks, I had to call them several times just to get in touch with a human, and it took the full 3 weeks for them to even take a look at the bike and let me know what the problem was. The explanation at the time was that their mechanic had electrocuted himself, and was in the hospital.

It's been another 4 weeks since then, and I've not heard a single word from them. The messages I leave there seem to go unnoticed.

I've requested a day off of work so I can go there in person to talk to them (I work during their business hours), but at this point, I'm starting to wonder if I should ask them to put it back together so I can take it elsewhere to get fixed or something - assuming they haven't done anything but the initial diagnostics.

Even if they were a busy shop, which they aren't, I would think 7 weeks should have been more than enough time for them to complete the work, or at least contact me to let me know if there had been problems/delays.

[Ninjinsky]

One thing I promise you though, is that it will have been quickly dismantled to the point where you cannot take it home again.

[Ghostt]

And the excuse, "we're waiting on parts"

[SLOWn60]

Originally Posted by goldfox

I hope to sell/part it off and get a factory new bike within the next 6-12 months.

The service you've indicated you're getting from the shop raises all kinds of red flags for me. Their problems may be legitimate and you may end up getting a running bike in the end but you also may find your bike under a bailiffs lock if the business goes under!
Because of your plan to part the bike out in the near future; if it were me: I would find a friend with a pickup and go get my bike now whether it's all torn down or still in one piece. You can then profit from the learning experience of disassembling the bike to part it out and minimize your losses!

[goldfox]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

And the excuse, "we're waiting on parts"

I'm sure I'd hear this excuse as well, yes.

Originally Posted by SLOWn60

you also may find your bike under a bailiffs lock if the business goes under!

Well, it's been a local business for decades, so I'm not in fear of it going under, but I am quite surprised that such a long-standing business would handle a customer this way.

I do have a truck of my own, but bringing someone else with me isn't a bad idea. As for getting rid of the bike in the future, I had hoped to continue to ride it until then, but I suppose it depends on what kind of condition it's in after the shop.

[SLOWn60]

I hope it all works out well for you, Goldfox. Uncertainties such as you are experiencing are always stressful & unnerving!
Keep us informed!