Cooling Issues

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Anyone local have any of the parts I can buy off of them?

[baxtc1]

Does your oil screen look like this?
[IMG][/IMG]
Photobucket is being a pain, don't know if this pic will work.
OK cool, it worked. This is where the bushing from your clutch housing goes as it wears, which is why you get the clutch knock, which sounds horribly like big end knock.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

Anyone local have any of the parts I can buy off of them?

Here try this link...

Its Broward Motorsports on Congress and Okeechobee. You can order the parts online and pick them up in about a week at the store. You pay for the part plus tax but no shipping. Its great when you just need a little part. When you need a lot of them, there are other online places to buy from that are cheaper - just watch out for the shipping costs. Ron Ayers usually has good prices, but an oil screen gasket is like $1 plus $10 shipping.

Lots of carnage in that oil screen.

I really wish lowes or home depot carried our mounting bolt nuts!!!

well looks like i sheered a cam cap bolt.....

i also need a new rocker/screw as they are both stripped!

The screw in my chain tensioner housing rounded making it a real PITA to install. (if I even can).

Such a frustrating process!!! I wanna splurge and buy a used engine!!!

What kind of carnage?

Sheered or stripped the cam cap bolt?

A single rocker screw and nut is going to set you back about $15. I would wait and see if someone posts a set on ebay (currently there aren't any).

The release screw on the CCT housing is just a plain screw. The hardware store should have something that will work good.

A used engine is buyer beware. Just keep in mind that you already have a used engine. But if you do and you want to sell the old one cheap, let me know.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

Anyone local have any of the parts I can buy off of them?

This person is in Riviera:

http://www.nifty250cycles.com/

You can find almost any fine threaded nut at Pep Boys.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by Motofool

This person is in Riviera:

http://www.nifty250cycles.com/

You can find almost any fine threaded nut at Pep Boys.

Riviera

Mybe ill give him a call

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Here try this link...

Its Broward Motorsports on Congress and Okeechobee. You can order the parts online and pick them up in about a week at the store. You pay for the part plus tax but no shipping. Its great when you just need a little part. When you need a lot of them, there are other online places to buy from that are cheaper - just watch out for the shipping costs. Ron Ayers usually has good prices, but an oil screen gasket is like $1 plus $10 shipping.



What kind of carnage?

Sheered or stripped the cam cap bolt?

A single rocker screw and nut is going to set you back about $15. I would wait and see if someone posts a set on ebay (currently there aren't any).

The release screw on the CCT housing is just a plain screw. The hardware store should have something that will work good.

A used engine is buyer beware. Just keep in mind that you already have a used engine. But if you do and you want to sell the old one cheap, let me know.

Sheered the cam cap bolt.

I need a new rocker because its stripped too.

The CCT screw is stuck in there...

Put clipons on today and wow what a difference!!!

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Tried moving the bike, it wont let me disengage the clutch no matter how tight I set the clutch cable..... What is going onnnnn

Edit: What I meant was when I pull the clutch in it still feels like it's pretty much in gear with just a tiny bit of freedom. I definitely cannot roll it without full force with the clutch pulled in all the way...... I don't know what this is a symptom of......

My battery reads 12.34V so I don't know if I need to bump start or not.....???

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

I called the shop in Riviera but he doesn't sell any parts.

[n4mwd]

Just curious, but why are you trying to bump start and install clip ons if your engine doesn't run?

I would also be curious as to what the guy in riviera actually does...Did he say?

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Just curious, but why are you trying to bump start and install clip ons if your engine doesn't run?

I would also be curious as to what the guy in riviera actually does...Did he say?

Well I'm not trying to bumpstart now that I know the engine doesn't run! I just noticed the clutch seemed stuck during the process. It's irrelevant right now. I put the clip ons on before I ran anything since I was gonna be doing it anyhow.

As far as what that guy does- it seemed like he rented 250s at an hourly rate? I'm gonna get new parts in and tear her back open. Seems like something went wrong with the timing for some reason. It's like the starter and crankshaft are the only things spinning.....

Just got a rocker arm off ebay for $24 ~3k miles on it.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Perhaps the chain tensioner is not applying the needed pressure!

[n4mwd]

Just one for $24? I know they are expensive, but sheesh!

The clutch is pretty much always going to stick when its cold. You can break it free in high gear by pushing it sometimes.

Yeah, your cam chain tensioner was sticking a bit. When you pull the clutch cover off, work on the CCT pivot arm to make sure that it moves freely. You need to be able to push down on it enough that it makes the cam chain super tight. If not, then something is blocking it.

But I don't think the CCT was your problem, its just another thing that needs fixing.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Yes the rockers are expensive but $24 is about half of what it would cost new.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Just as I suspected- the stubborn chain tensioner is not doing its job!!!

Is there a way to access the nut/bolt that pushes against the tensioner lever through the clutch cover??? I really need to get in there and loosen it a tad!!!!

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Part no. 13168

Of course it doesn't help the screw in the chain tensioner is not coming out!!!

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

I put the tensioner rod in and smacked it a couple times with a hammer (just hard enough) and got the tensioner lever to tighten a bit. Now when I try starting it the engine won't turn over. It just clicks once......

I was reading about a manual tensioner somewhere? Does anyone run one of those or know where I could research one?

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

Just as I suspected- the stubborn chain tensioner is not doing its job!!!

Is there a way to access the nut/bolt that pushes against the tensioner lever through the clutch cover??? I really need to get in there and loosen it a tad!!!!

You probably will need to remove the clutch basket to get to it. Before that, I'd see if I could spray some carb cleaner on the joints to loosen any caked on oil that might be clogging up things. Bear in mind that this means you have to replace your oil.

If you remove the clutch basket, I have the tool for holding it steady while it gets retorqued if you need it.

Also, did you by any chance take the upper tensioner bolt loose? Part #11012. If that doesn't go back in right, the tensioner mechanism wont work.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

You probably will need to remove the clutch basket to get to it. Before that, I'd see if I could spray some carb cleaner on the joints to loosen any caked on oil that might be clogging up things. Bear in mind that this means you have to replace your oil.

If you remove the clutch basket, I have the tool for holding it steady while it gets retorqued if you need it.

Also, did you by any chance take the upper tensioner bolt loose? Part #11012. If that doesn't go back in right, the tensioner mechanism wont work.

I put that piece back (part # 11012).......

I took the clutch cover off and saw that the whole basket does have to come off. I think whatever gear is behind the clutch basket does as well. Not sure how difficult it would be removing that gear??

I'm not getting any turnover when I hit the starter, just a click like the starter is stuck.

The flywheel should spin when I put the bike on the center stand and spin the rear wheel in gear right? I don't think I'm getting that. The chain was taught when I put everything back together I don't know why it would come undone without me hearing it....

I can roll the bike in 1st gear but I'm not hearing any clicking when I pop the clutch.... I feel like I'm forgetting something electronic here....

[n4mwd]

Well, if the engine wont turn over, I think you found the missing bolt.

The clutch basket comes off easy with an impact wrench. You have to replace the nut with a new one. When you put it back together, you have to use a torque wrench and torque it to 100#. And you need a special tool to hold it - which I have. The nut itself is a 27mm nut and they sell a 27mm deep socket at harbor freight for $3 if you want your very own.

Once you get the basket off, you can get to the CCT mechanism easily. There are no gears in the way as far as I remember.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Well, if the engine wont turn over, I think you found the missing bolt.

The clutch basket comes off easy with an impact wrench. You have to replace the nut with a new one. When you put it back together, you have to use a torque wrench and torque it to 100#. And you need a special tool to hold it - which I have. The nut itself is a 27mm nut and they sell a 27mm deep socket at harbor freight for $3 if you want your very own.

Once you get the basket off, you can get to the CCT mechanism easily. There are no gears in the way as far as I remember.

The pistons spin fine.....

Lost right now and hating life not having a bike!!!!

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

The pistons spin fine.....

Lost right now and hating life not having a bike!!!!

That's why I keep a spare. My original bike is messed up right now. Rode it home and into the garage, went to start it a few days later and it wont fire at all.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Is my only option at this point to take out the clutch basket and try to play with the tensioner lever? I'm not really sure what I could do other than loosen the bolt a little bit??

What would you guys do if your timing chain wouldn't catch the crankshaft gear??

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

.........What would you guys do if your timing chain wouldn't catch the crankshaft gear??

I don't know, Justin.

I have been following your ordeal and I am confused at this point.
It is like a problem leads to a new one.
It seems like a lot of problems to solve at this point: overheating, broken rocker, missing nut, low compression, tensioner, locked engine and the timing chain.

I would take a step back and try to repair the most critical only.

[n4mwd]

You need to find out why the tensioner isn't working first. How many miles does the engine have again?

The tensioner is basically just a strip of metal that flexes when the CCT lever goes down. If the top part of the strip isn't connected properly, the strip wont flex and push against the chain to tighten it.

Another possibility is that the chain is simply worn out. Maybe try to measure it and compare to factory specs.

Lastly, the lever pivot bolt may simply be jammed with gunk or something.

Since you have the top off, I would try to look down the cam chain tunnel at the top of the tensioning strip and make sure its connected properly. Note that there are two strips, right and left, and only the left one (rearmost) works with the tensioner.

If the tensioner is connected properly at the top, then its time to pull the clutch basket and take a good close look at the lower end mechanism and make sure that it works properly.

Its possible that the tensioner strip itself could be broken, but not likely.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

You need to find out why the tensioner isn't working first. How many miles does the engine have again?

The tensioner is basically just a strip of metal that flexes when the CCT lever goes down. If the top part of the strip isn't connected properly, the strip wont flex and push against the chain to tighten it.

Another possibility is that the chain is simply worn out. Maybe try to measure it and compare to factory specs.

Lastly, the lever pivot bolt may simply be jammed with gunk or something.

Since you have the top off, I would try to look down the cam chain tunnel at the top of the tensioning strip and make sure its connected properly. Note that there are two strips, right and left, and only the left one (rearmost) works with the tensioner.

If the tensioner is connected properly at the top, then its time to pull the clutch basket and take a good close look at the lower end mechanism and make sure that it works properly.

Its possible that the tensioner strip itself could be broken, but not likely.

Engine Has 20k miles on it.

I checked that the chain was taught before I put the valve cover back on....

Just to verify- with the bike in gear and rolling it forward I should see the alternator spinning with the inspection cover off correct? This is not happening. The only difference is that last time the starter spun freely, this time it's not spinning at all.

[n4mwd]

I've never heard of this happening on a Ninja, but what you describe sounds an awful lot like a broken crank. It could also be that the key that holds the flywheel on has sheered which will prevent the starter from engaging the engine.

If the missing screw got wedged between gears of the harmonic balancer and the crank (located on the left side of engine), then this could happen.

Try this... Turn the nut on the flywheel clockwise and see if there is a corresponding action on the clutch basket. (While in neutral or with rear wheel off the ground.

But what's strange is that it was actually running that way.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I've never heard of this happening on a Ninja, but what you describe sounds an awful lot like a broken crank. It could also be that the key that holds the flywheel on has sheered which will prevent the starter from engaging the engine.

If the missing screw got wedged between gears of the harmonic balancer and the crank (located on the left side of engine), then this could happen.

Try this... Turn the nut on the flywheel clockwise and see if there is a corresponding action on the clutch basket. (While in neutral or with rear wheel off the ground.

But what's strange is that it was actually running that way.

I think the problem is largely in the tensioner system. I'll have more info when I get home. I'd like to borrow your clutch tool if you're available today I moved to royal palm

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

I think the problem is largely in the tensioner system. I'll have more info when I get home. I'd like to borrow your clutch tool if you're available today I moved to royal palm

You only need the clutch tool to put it back. Use an impact wrench to take it off. A breaker bar and your foot on the rear brake while its in gear will also work. Don't forget that you are supposed to buy a new nut for that, but I know a lot of people probably just reuse the old one.

I'd still like to look at it. PM me with your new address and phone #. As for when I can get there, it depends on the weather and how far off the path you live. I'll call you first.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Checked the timing again, the timing chain isn't catching the crankshaft it was sort of locked moving clockwise (why it wouldnt turn over) but going counterclockwise it came off and now is spinning freely again on the bottom.

I'm not sure what playing with the tensioner lever will do but it's worth a shot I guess.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

Checked the timing again, the timing chain isn't catching the crankshaft it was sort of locked moving clockwise (why it wouldnt turn over) but going counterclockwise it came off and now is spinning freely again on the bottom.

I'm not sure what playing with the tensioner lever will do but it's worth a shot I guess.

That's scary. The tensioner is not the problem, its just something you need to tend to while you are in there. You need to make sure its working or all hell will break loose - again.

The locking up thing is most likely that screw that came off that you didn't find. If that had happened while you were running, it would have been much worse. Keep an eye out for it tomorrow when you are working on the clutch. It might try to quietly fall out on the floor and pretend to be something that was already there. But just so you know, the last time I lost something in the engine, I had to split to crankcase to get it out. You could still be lucky and we could get it without a big fight. Hint: sometimes magnets can be useful.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

I never lost a bolt it was the 6mm nut that went onto the rocker. I've fished around plenty for it i'd guess it was part of the loads of metal that came out with the oil/screen.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

I never lost a bolt it was the 6mm nut that went onto the rocker. I've fished around plenty for it i'd guess it was part of the loads of metal that came out with the oil/screen.

Not likely. But I want to see that metal from the screen anyway. Something locked up the engine and we need to find it. Otherwise, you are sitting on a timebomb.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Not likely. But I want to see that metal from the screen anyway. Something locked up the engine and we need to find it. Otherwise, you are sitting on a timebomb.

Nothing locked up the engine the chain was just jammed in the crankshaft. It's happened before when I was checking the timing.

Most of the metal from the screen was thrown away. I may have a picture of it.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

Nothing locked up the engine the chain was just jammed in the crankshaft. It's happened before when I was checking the timing.

Most of the metal from the screen was thrown away. I may have a picture of it.

Ok, show me when I get there.

[fishdip]

My question is how much more needs to go wrong for u to just push it off a cliff.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Found the issue with the tensioner. The threads drilled into the crankcase where the tensioner lever's bolt meets it has split open. Possibly my own doing but also from the crap that decided to come loose in the head. Couldn't have Kawi thought to secure those rockers somehow? Time to hit the used parts section of the forum.....

Big thanks to N4MWD for his help

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by fishdip

My question is how much more needs to go wrong for u to just push it off a cliff.

I'd definitely be at the pier right now saying my goodbyes had I not been so rough on it. I drive it to it's limits so I'm never really that surprised something breaks.

[n4mwd]

New case $50 (if you want to go that route): ebay

New engine ($500): ebay w/free shipping
- this one doesn't say how many miles.

And another engine ($500): ebay w/free shipping - this might be the one.

Here is a no-title bag of parts for $450 that you could use to fix yours up probably. Actually, it says "no title or keys" -- Translation: "I stole it."

And if you're in a hurry: Here's one ready to ride for $1750.

[n4mwd]

You might be happier with a newgen. I don't think that engine has any rockers to come loose. Also, the CCT is better and the clutch basket is on springs instead of rubber bushings that rot away. But its a royal pain to work on. Not easy like our bikes.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/110970784222...84.m1436.l2649

Hows that look? Granted it's the right model?