Engine Rebuild - Page 4

FvnnyL3tt3r1ng · October 11th, 2013, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuong-nutz

That tool I have is plenty strong and big enough. Unless you're clamping down very tight or have to cocked at an angle, I can't see how you would break anything.

How is the tool not big enough? Can you elaborate?

I couldn't get it to fit over the hub with enough distance to hold when I clamped down.... I must be doing something wrong. w/e the case the nut is back on via impact wrench.

I broke a piece of the hub off a few days ago after I wedged something in between it and the outer basket to keep it from spinning as I attempted to torque with a breaker bar. Not a good idea.

FvnnyL3tt3r1ng · October 11th, 2013, 10:10 AM

Rebuilt engine is on. Starts up but won't go into gear. Can feel it kick into first but doesn't move when I release clutch...

cuong-nutz · October 11th, 2013, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

Rebuilt engine is on. Starts up but won't go into gear. Can feel it kick into first but doesn't move when I release clutch...

Check to see if your shifter claw is attached properly to the shift drum thing.

When I had reinstalled my shift drum washer, it fell out of alignment and it wouldn't shift into second.

Link to original page on YouTube.

Link to original page on YouTube.

You put the shift forks back in correctly?

FvnnyL3tt3r1ng · October 11th, 2013, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuong-nutz

Check to see if your shifter claw is attached properly to the shift drum thing.

When I had reinstalled my shift drum washer, it fell out of alignment and it wouldn't shift into second.

You put the shift forks back in correctly?

I'm positive on the shift forks. I was looking at the shift arms on the shift drum and I wasn't exactly sure if they were on right. From what I remember they pretty much just latch on in one position without any adjustment though......

FvnnyL3tt3r1ng · October 11th, 2013, 04:43 PM

Played with the clutch tool tonight. Was able to get it fit but the tips of the tool are like next to each other on the hub. I dont think you can actually fit it on opposite sides as depicted.

Have to find a store that carries the engine mounting bolt's nut. M10 x1.25 I believe. Both hardware stores I went to were out of them.

n4mwd · October 11th, 2013, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

Played with the clutch tool tonight. Was able to get it fit but the tips of the tool are like next to each other on the hub. I dont think you can actually fit it on opposite sides as depicted.

Have to find a store that carries the engine mounting bolt's nut. M10 x1.25 I believe. Both hardware stores I went to were out of them.

http://www.lowes.com

They don't have them at Royal Palm, but the other ones have them.

FvnnyL3tt3r1ng · October 11th, 2013, 05:40 PM

@n4mwd

Any idea why my bike doesn't wanna put power to the rear wheel in gear?

n4mwd · October 11th, 2013, 06:26 PM

No idea. Could be a million reasons. Did you test the tranny when you had it apart to make sure it was back together right? I think Racerx put out a video showing how to test it. They all have to be in there just right. I had a problem with mine, but figured it out before final assembly.

Link to original page on YouTube.

cuong-nutz · October 11th, 2013, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

@n4mwd

Any idea why my bike doesn't wanna put power to the rear wheel in gear?

Clutch releasing all the way?

The_big_dill · October 11th, 2013, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuong-nutz

Clutch releasing all the way?

Check this along with everything else you can before pulling that thing apart again, hopefully you won't have to resort to taking it apart again.

FvnnyL3tt3r1ng · October 12th, 2013, 07:52 AM

This is how I finally resorted to putting this tool on. It definitely will not open wide enough to fit on opposite sides. I'm still not sure on how the tool was intended to be used because I can't get the tool on how you are describing it or how it is depicted.

2013-10-12 10.46.13.jpg

FvnnyL3tt3r1ng · October 12th, 2013, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_big_dill

Check this along with everything else you can before pulling that thing apart again, hopefully you won't have to resort to taking it apart again.

Yeah I wouldn't even be convinced I needed to pull it apart again until checking 100 other things. I suspect something in the clutch assembly.

I played with the clutch a little yesterday so I doubt that is it but I'll re check as it does seem symptomatic of a tight clutch cable.

cuong-nutz · October 12th, 2013, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

This is how I finally resorted to putting this tool on. It definitely will not open wide enough to fit on opposite sides. I'm still not sure on how the tool was intended to be used because I can't get the tool on how you are describing it or how it is depicted.

Attachment 27151

Back the adjuster all the way out, and pull open the "jaws", and readjust the adjuster so the jaws stay locked in position like a vice grip.

mgentz · October 12th, 2013, 09:20 AM

that tool should be able to fit on opposite sides. I have one just like it and mine did...?

As for the not going into second, did you ever remove your transmission fully? Including the positive neutral bolt on top of the motor?

I recommend taking the clutch hub off, reinspecting everything per the manual for fit and then using an allen key to turn your transmission through the gears. Up and down about four or five times. once completed, ENSURE that the plate that bolts to the shift drum is in proper alignment and that your shift forks (external) are in properly. Then try it with the gear shift lever before putting on the clutch hub. Does it work?

I say all this because I had an issue with mine getting stuck and I believe it to have been caused by the positive neutral finder. The above procedure is how it fixed itself.

FvnnyL3tt3r1ng · October 12th, 2013, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgentz

that tool should be able to fit on opposite sides. I have one just like it and mine did...?

As for the not going into second, did you ever remove your transmission fully? Including the positive neutral bolt on top of the motor?

I recommend taking the clutch hub off, reinspecting everything per the manual for fit and then using an allen key to turn your transmission through the gears. Up and down about four or five times. once completed, ENSURE that the plate that bolts to the shift drum is in proper alignment and that your shift forks (external) are in properly. Then try it with the gear shift lever before putting on the clutch hub. Does it work?

I say all this because I had an issue with mine getting stuck and I believe it to have been caused by the positive neutral finder. The above procedure is how it fixed itself.

Interesting. I just pulled the clutch basket off of my spare engine which I hadn't been into before and I saw the washer/spacer that goes against the case behind the basket was put on reverse of how I put it on. Now I was told to put it on with the larger side facing outward, which engine is wrong?

Yes I did take the transmission out fully. I didn't take it through the gears with an allen key though.

Part no. 92026 http://www.motosport.com/motorcycle/..._-EX250/CLUTCH

It really seems it should go on with the larger/untapered side butted up against the case but even that diagram has it the opposite/counterintuitive way.

FvnnyL3tt3r1ng · October 12th, 2013, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuong-nutz

Back the adjuster all the way out, and pull open the "jaws", and readjust the adjuster so the jaws stay locked in position like a vice grip.

Yeah my tool is just too small I think. There's no way it will go on opposite sides even if I back the adjuster all the way out. I think how I have it should work though.

n4mwd · October 12th, 2013, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

Interesting. I just pulled the clutch basket off of my spare engine which I hadn't been into before and I saw the washer/spacer that goes against the case behind the basket was put on reverse of how I put it on. Now I was told to put it on with the larger side facing outward, which engine is wrong?

The beveled washer points to the engine. The larger end touches the basket. That's how it fits up against the bearing. If the new engine had it wrong, then somebody was in there before you were and put it in backwards.

mgentz · October 12th, 2013, 12:27 PM

Bevel in first. Its in the manual.

mgentz · October 12th, 2013, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

Yeah my tool is just too small I think. There's no way it will go on opposite sides even if I back the adjuster all the way out. I think how I have it should work though.

There is no way that will be strong enough. The torque required for that nut is a lot for tension to hold.

FvnnyL3tt3r1ng · October 13th, 2013, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgentz

There is no way that will be strong enough. The torque required for that nut is a lot for tension to hold.

Ok so first, I am retarded. ^^^ You were right when you said it wouldn't hold enough torque. I simply had to pull the jaws open wider after I had backed the adjuster bolt....D'oh.

Now, I took of the clutch basket, everything was installed right.'

I spun the rear wheel as I took the tranny through all the gears several times. There was no problem doing this, and I didn't have to mess with anything.

I put the basket back on, torque the hub to 100#, put the discs back on, button everything back up.

Start the bike, goes into gears as I walk the bike down the street shifting quickly. If I stop the bike in gear it doesn't stall, not even stumble.

I loosened the clutch cable all the way, same thing! WTF am I doing wrong here lol. I'm positive I put the shift forks back in their spots correctly.

I tried this as well: I put the bike on the rear stand and quickly shifted it into first, the rear wheel spun and even seemed to be putting out a bit of power for idle......

Do I have to put the shifter arms on the drum in a certain gear or something??????? I have no clue what is going on..... Puzzled

I'm sure someone on here knows something I don't, they just haven't commented yet......
@Racer x @n4mwd @choneofakind @Motofool

Who am I missing

n4mwd · October 13th, 2013, 03:02 PM

Its hard to say without seeing it. Did the top half of the case fit properly over the gears without having to be torqued? Does the clutch feel right?

FvnnyL3tt3r1ng · October 13th, 2013, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Its hard to say without seeing it. Did the top half of the case fit properly over the gears without having to be torqued? Does the clutch feel right?

The clutch pulls and releases normally, I don't feel the clutch plates meshing whatsoever though....

The case went on fine I made sure all the bearings and dowels lined up. That's why I did it about 10 times. I even pulled it the last time to double check the shift forks were on correctly......

Motofool · October 13th, 2013, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

..............
Start the bike, goes into gears as I walk the bike down the street shifting quickly. If I stop the bike in gear it doesn't stall, not even stumble.

I tried this as well: I put the bike on the rear stand and quickly shifted it into first, the rear wheel spun and even seemed to be putting out a bit of power for idle......

I'm sure someone on here knows something I don't, they just haven't commented yet......
@Motofool

Sorry Justin, excuse my retardation but I cannot understand what the problem you are trying to solve is.

FvnnyL3tt3r1ng · October 13th, 2013, 04:39 PM

Is it remotely possible the fiber plates are backwards and that's the issue????

FvnnyL3tt3r1ng · October 13th, 2013, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motofool

Sorry Justin, excuse my retardation but I cannot understand what the problem you are trying to solve is.

Just trying to figure out why my clutch doesn't seem to be engaging....

n4mwd · October 13th, 2013, 05:01 PM

Are you sure you put back the correct number of plates? Should have fiber to start and fiber to end. Also, I assume you latched the clutch actuator properly when you reinstalled the clutch cover. Clutch springs put on correctly?

FvnnyL3tt3r1ng · October 13th, 2013, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Are you sure you put back the correct number of plates? Should have fiber to start and fiber to end. Also, I assume you latched the clutch actuator properly when you reinstalled the clutch cover. Clutch springs put on correctly?

Fiber to start fiber to end yes. 5 fibers, 4 metals so it's hard to mess up.

I put the actuator on right yeah.

I put the springs over the final piece that covers the clutch plates followed by the bolts....

Motofool · October 13th, 2013, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

Just trying to figure out why my clutch doesn't seem to be engaging....

Check this old post and schematic:
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...6&postcount=31

Do you feel the resistance and movement of the springs in the clutch lever?

FvnnyL3tt3r1ng · October 13th, 2013, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motofool

Check this old post and schematic:
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...6&postcount=31

Do you feel the resistance and movement of the springs in the clutch lever?

Yeah the lever pops back if you let it....The bolts had the bottomed out feeling when I installed them over the springs.

And everything is installed correct!

Motofool · October 13th, 2013, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

.....And everything is installed correct!

Then 13187 is pressing all the plates together and against 13087.
Then 13095 is dragged and becomes a solid part with the crankshaft and its rear gear makes the transmission rotate.

Can you see actually happening through the oil refill hole?

FvnnyL3tt3r1ng · October 13th, 2013, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

Is it remotely possible the fiber plates are backwards and that's the issue????

Spoke w/ a bike mechanic and we narrowed it down to this ^^^^^ D'oh!!

FvnnyL3tt3r1ng · October 13th, 2013, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motofool

Then 13187 is pressing all the plates together and against 13087.
Then 13095 is dragged and becomes a solid part with the crankshaft and its rear gear makes the transmission rotate.

Can you see actually happening through the oil refill hole?

I could see this when the cover was off. However, the bike was not actually running and putting out power yet!

The_big_dill · October 13th, 2013, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

I could see this when the cover was off. However, the bike was not actually running and putting out power yet!

So that was your problem, the plates were on backwards?

FvnnyL3tt3r1ng · October 13th, 2013, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_big_dill

So that was your problem, the plates were on backwards?

Haha. I'm pretty sure I saw them facing the wrong way earlier today. Didn't hit me they had to be facing a certain direction. Was in too much of a rush...

Motofool · October 13th, 2013, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

Haha. I'm pretty sure I saw them facing the wrong way earlier today. Didn't hit me they had to be facing a certain direction. Was in too much of a rush...

Just for the record: I disagree with that being the cause of a lack of power transmission.

FvnnyL3tt3r1ng · October 13th, 2013, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motofool

Just for the record: I disagree with that being the cause of a lack of power transmission.

We shall see tomorrow. Come to think of it the fiber plates have markings on them which I believe I faced inwards..... D'oh

Just for reference, page 5-7 in the kawi manual is what led me to this conclusion.

n4mwd · October 13th, 2013, 08:49 PM

I don't think the plates direction makes much of a difference. There is an optimal way to install them, but it should still work if they are installed backwards.

If the problem is the clutch not grabbing, something is preventing it from compressing. You aligned the notches on the outer pressure plate right?

FvnnyL3tt3r1ng · October 14th, 2013, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I don't think the plates direction makes much of a difference. There is an optimal way to install them, but it should still work if they are installed backwards.

If the problem is the clutch not grabbing, something is preventing it from compressing. You aligned the notches on the outer pressure plate right?

Hmm, notches you say?

mgentz · October 14th, 2013, 04:47 AM

Or someting further in like aligning and fully engaging the crank gear?

n4mwd · October 14th, 2013, 06:01 AM

Alignment marks

October 11th, 2013, 10:10 AM	#122
FvnnyL3tt3r1ng ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Justin Location: Florida Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 2001 Posts: A lot.	Rebuilt engine is on. Starts up but won't go into gear. Can feel it kick into first but doesn't move when I release clutch... __________________________________________________ Mods: Offset clutch pressure plate

October 11th, 2013, 04:43 PM	#125
FvnnyL3tt3r1ng ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Justin Location: Florida Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 2001 Posts: A lot.	Played with the clutch tool tonight. Was able to get it fit but the tips of the tool are like next to each other on the hub. I dont think you can actually fit it on opposite sides as depicted. Have to find a store that carries the engine mounting bolt's nut. M10 x1.25 I believe. Both hardware stores I went to were out of them. __________________________________________________ Mods: Offset clutch pressure plate

October 11th, 2013, 05:40 PM	#127
FvnnyL3tt3r1ng ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Justin Location: Florida Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 2001 Posts: A lot.	@n4mwd Any idea why my bike doesn't wanna put power to the rear wheel in gear? __________________________________________________ Mods: Offset clutch pressure plate

October 11th, 2013, 06:26 PM	#128
n4mwd ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: D Location: Palm Beach, FL Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 1	No idea. Could be a million reasons. Did you test the tranny when you had it apart to make sure it was back together right? I think Racerx put out a video showing how to test it. They all have to be in there just right. I had a problem with mine, but figured it out before final assembly. Link to original page on YouTube. __________________________________________________ My Ninja Blog Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED!

October 12th, 2013, 07:52 AM	#131
FvnnyL3tt3r1ng ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Justin Location: Florida Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 2001 Posts: A lot.	This is how I finally resorted to putting this tool on. It definitely will not open wide enough to fit on opposite sides. I'm still not sure on how the tool was intended to be used because I can't get the tool on how you are describing it or how it is depicted. 2013-10-12 10.46.13.jpg __________________________________________________ Mods: Offset clutch pressure plate

October 12th, 2013, 09:20 AM	#134
mgentz Board Member Name: ... Location: WI Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 250R (street), 250R (dirt) Posts: A lot.	that tool should be able to fit on opposite sides. I have one just like it and mine did...? As for the not going into second, did you ever remove your transmission fully? Including the positive neutral bolt on top of the motor? I recommend taking the clutch hub off, reinspecting everything per the manual for fit and then using an allen key to turn your transmission through the gears. Up and down about four or five times. once completed, ENSURE that the plate that bolts to the shift drum is in proper alignment and that your shift forks (external) are in properly. Then try it with the gear shift lever before putting on the clutch hub. Does it work? I say all this because I had an issue with mine getting stuck and I believe it to have been caused by the positive neutral finder. The above procedure is how it fixed itself.

October 12th, 2013, 12:27 PM	#138
mgentz Board Member Name: ... Location: WI Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 250R (street), 250R (dirt) Posts: A lot.	Bevel in first. Its in the manual.

October 13th, 2013, 03:02 PM	#141
n4mwd ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: D Location: Palm Beach, FL Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 1	Its hard to say without seeing it. Did the top half of the case fit properly over the gears without having to be torqued? Does the clutch feel right? __________________________________________________ My Ninja Blog Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED!

October 13th, 2013, 04:39 PM	#144
FvnnyL3tt3r1ng ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Justin Location: Florida Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 2001 Posts: A lot.	Is it remotely possible the fiber plates are backwards and that's the issue???? __________________________________________________ Mods: Offset clutch pressure plate

October 13th, 2013, 05:01 PM	#146
n4mwd ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: D Location: Palm Beach, FL Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 1	Are you sure you put back the correct number of plates? Should have fiber to start and fiber to end. Also, I assume you latched the clutch actuator properly when you reinstalled the clutch cover. Clutch springs put on correctly? __________________________________________________ My Ninja Blog Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED!

October 13th, 2013, 08:49 PM	#157
n4mwd ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: D Location: Palm Beach, FL Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 1	I don't think the plates direction makes much of a difference. There is an optimal way to install them, but it should still work if they are installed backwards. If the problem is the clutch not grabbing, something is preventing it from compressing. You aligned the notches on the outer pressure plate right? __________________________________________________ My Ninja Blog Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED!

October 14th, 2013, 04:47 AM	#159
mgentz Board Member Name: ... Location: WI Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 250R (street), 250R (dirt) Posts: A lot.	Or someting further in like aligning and fully engaging the crank gear?

October 14th, 2013, 06:01 AM	#160
n4mwd ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: D Location: Palm Beach, FL Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 1	Clutch Alignment marks Alignment marks __________________________________________________ My Ninja Blog Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED!

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