Another 250cc Comparison for 2011 - Motorcycle Consumer News

[Alex]

In the April 2011 issue of Motorcycle Consumer News, they did a detailed comparison between our beloved Ninja 250R, the Honda CBR250R, and the ATK GT250R. The ATK is a rebadged and updated Hyosung. In a nutshell, the Honda cleaned up, and the ATK wasn't even in the game. They felt the Honda was more polished, had a more usable engine, had better ergos, better attention to details, better instruments, etc. The ninjette had a stronger engine up top, better suspension, and better brakes. The ninjette did get unfairly dung for its range; they incorrectly stated that our bike has a 3.2 gallon tank compared to the Honda's 3.4 gallon tank. The Honda did get much better mileage in their test, but with our actual 4.8 gallon tank, our ninjette still has significantly more range. I wrote into the magazine a few moments ago with that correction, along with a nit (they said our bike has a 120/70/17 up front, we have a 110, same as the Honda). In terms of our endless top speed discussions on this site, they were able to get to a true 97.7 mph, and had a 7.89 second 0-to-60 time. This was stronger than the other two bikes, with the Honda at 91.2 mph and 8.79 seconds to 60, and the ATK at 90.7 mph with a 9.72 0-to-60 time. Another key tidbit, is their particular ninjette was only traveling a true 58.5 mph when the speedometer was pointing at 65 mph, while the Honda's was spot-on at 65 mph. Here are all of the categories:

(1st/2nd/3rd)

Engines: CBR/Ninja/ATK
Transmissions & Clutches: CBR/Ninja/ATK
Chassis & Handling: CBR & Ninja tie / ATK
Suspension: Ninja/CBR/ATK
Brakes, Wheels & Tires: Ninja/CBR/ATK
Ergonomics: CBR/Ninja/ATK
Riding Impression: CBR & Ninja tie/ATK
Instruments & Controls: CBR/Ninja & ATK tie
Attention to Detail: CBR/Ninja/ATK
Overall: CBR/Ninja/ATK

All in all, while it seems like a drubbing, there are certainly some positives coming out of this. Here was the text from Danny Coe, their resident "fast guy":

Originally Posted by Danny Coe

If I were in the market for a 250cc streetbike, and I wanted the best performer for me, the impressions gained from this comparison place the Kawasaki Ninja 250R atop the sporting category, without a doubt.

The Ninja 250R accelerates, stops, and turns better than its closest rival, the Honda CBR250R, and noticeably so. And although this is not a dance, at higher speeds the Ninja's handling is certainly stable and graceful, and it makes a great dance partner with exceptional agility on twisty road sections, although not at the expense of being overly sensitive to steering input. Although it's classed as an entry-level motorcycle, I also think that the little Ninja will serve new riders and more experienced riders equally well. In this test group, I might pick the CBR250R for its slightly more conventional riding position and stoplight-to-stoplight torque, but if we were gone all day out riding, I guarantee that I'd be the first person back to the office with this little Kawasaki - it's a blast to ride.

We've had at least two other review threads including the CBR250R, here they are: Thread 1 Thread 2

I might combine 'em all at some point if it all turns into the same general conversation.

[Stogie]

The CBR's electronic speedometer and the fuel injection are the only attractive features over the ninja. To read that the CBR has stoplight-to-stoplight torque contradicts what I've read previously (sorry, I don't recall the source, take my word for it or don't).

The CBR resembles a sport touring bike, while the Ninja resembles a supersport. I can deal with a carbuertor and a jankey speedometer over a CBR. Besides, you won't get caught speeding if your speedometer is always tricking you, lol.

[Alex]

The dyno runs provided in the article are reasonably compelling, the CBR has more torque than the ninjette all the way up until 9000 rpm, and only at that point does our bike catch up and then surpass the Honda. It does seem to be a consistent theme in these reviews that the CBR is easier to launch and has more accessible low to mid range torque. Neither bike is a torque-monster, of course, so all is relative.

[Bill N]

Everything mentioned rings mostly true for me. My only complaint with the Ninjette is that it's lame off the line and with stock gearing doesn't come alive until around 40MPH, after that all the way to topend she runs strong for a 250 and I love it. (Best mid range?). Evidently it beats the competition at mid and higher end. I like that because I ride with liter bikes and its nice to hang within sight of them on the open stretches. I gave up stop light to stop light competitions around 50 years ago as racing tickets are show stoppers.
Reguardless its interesting to read about the other 250's.
Bill

[Sailariel]

Bill, I gave that stuff up about fifty years ago as well---However, what I absolutely love about the Ninja is her Jekkyl-Hyde personality. Up to about 7000RPM she is a very mannerly lady--after that, it is Holy S---, this bike can kick a--! I like bikes that do that. My Norton, years ago, was like that with a lot more cc's. I don't think that the 250R will be dethroned for performance or style in the near future. Honda and others need to do a lot of work to dethrone a bike that set the standard for 250 sportbikes since 1986. There is something to be said for seniority.

[bob706]

The honda just looks too small. I wonder if they tested an FI Ninja would the results be different?

[coondog]

Originally Posted by Bill N

Everything mentioned rings mostly true for me. My only complaint with the Ninjette is that it's lame off the line and with stock gearing doesn't come alive until around 40MPH, after that all the way to topend she runs strong for a 250 and I love it. (Best mid range?). Evidently it beats the competition at mid and higher end. I like that because I ride with liter bikes and its nice to hang within sight of them on the open stretches. I gave up stop light to stop light competitions around 50 years ago as racing tickets are show stoppers.
Reguardless its interesting to read about the other 250's.
Bill

that's because we ride our age though. if you revved it way up like a race tree when the traffic lights were changing, lame isn't in the equation. that was actually a complaint before the re-do in 08, too much revving is needed. other thing never covered is drop a gear on the ninja at highway speeds and give her the throttle, that thrill (for us anyway) wont be seen on a single, plus if you were to blow up a single then everything is blown, not so on a parallel twin. Like i said before, i use my ninja 500 for around town or traffic. my 250 is a speed run (for me) bike, even off the line, especially with my clutch friction zone in the first half inch of pull. Happy trails, ride on.

[Cab305]

"more usable engine, had better ergos, better attention to details, better instruments, etc." vs. "a stronger engine up top, better suspension, and better brakes."

How do you figure the Honda cleaned up? I'll take the kawi.

[Alex]

I'm with you.

But the engineer in me tells me that Honda won 6 of 10 categories, including overall. The ninjette only won 2 of 10. They did tie for 1st in the 2 remaining categories.

[Cab305]

Originally Posted by Alex

I'm with you.

But the engineer in me tells me that Honda won 6 of 10 categories, including overall. The ninjette only won 2 of 10. They did tie for 1st in the 2 remaining categories.

(stronger engine up top, better suspension, and better brakes) are the only categories that matter.

If ergos and instrumentation were important, Ducati would go out of business......

[Xoulrath]

I agree with what you are saying, Cab, but real world considerations are important. Even though I think the Ninja looks better, and it certainly wins the performance portion of the test (arguably most important for me as a buyer) I think the Honda has a few advantages.

First, FI is a big deal to most people that I know, and I would imagine it would be to new motorcyclists who have probably never even heard of a choke. Heck I was fortunate enough even being almost 34 to only own a couple of carb'ed vehicles. Most vehicles by the 90s were already FI.

Even if a carb can perform better on a track perfectly tuned, it still can't beat the ease of use and low maintenance of FI for the street, where most new riders will be. The fact that future repair or replacement of FI might be more of a hassle later isn't a huge deal.

Second, I think you underestimate the usefulness of that torque. I love my Ninja in the twisty bits, but being a heavier rider, I wouldn't mind a bit more pull down low. Sure, according to measured performance the Ninja still has a small lead to 60, not sure I trust most times as there are too many variables involved but alas, it still doesn't have the low end and midrange the Honda does.

Again, from a new rider standpoint, you want user-friendly performance. Despite my years of experience with manual transmissions, I still had some issues starting this bike, particularly from hills, due to the torque, or lack of it rather. I even had some dirt bike experience, so it wasn't just getting used to bike controls. The amount of slip I had to use on the clutch was frightening. I didn't think the bike would wheelie with me leaning forward, but I didn't want to find out. The lower available torque of my wife's TU250, despite being much less powerful, never had this issue. You could tell the bike would pull easily with minimal slip. I imagine the Honda, being more powerful, would be even more confidence inspiring.

Third, gas prices have never been more volatile. Sure, gas always fluctuates and prices could and probably will go back down to what we consider normal, but they will never again be what most Americans consider "cheap." A few miles a gallon adds up fast.

The Ninja is more than likely the better performance buy. I just don't think you can discount the Honda. I have said it before and I will say it again: If I were buying today, though I would still be leaning Ninja, the Honda would be hard to pass up, knowing I wasn't really giving up much.

I just hope Suzuki brings out a GSX-R250 already.

[gogoKawi]

Originally Posted by Xoulrath

Again, from a new rider standpoint, you want user-friendly performance.

For the life of me, I don't understand what this means. Every review that I have read says something about the bike being "user-friendly". Is this just an easy way of saying that you don't have to change gears as much?

Originally Posted by Xoulrath

I just hope Suzuki brings out a GSX-R250 already.

I doubt that will happen. Suzuki can't even sell their 500s and 650s. Dealerships are practically giving them away. I would love to see Yamaha jump into the 250 fight though. Yamaha seems to be doing just fine with its 125 overseas. A 250 in similar dressing would be interesting.

[choneofakind]

Is it even possible to get more beginner user friendly than the ninja? As a still beginner speaking, my 250 has been easy to work on, reliable, and enough fun to get in trouble with. However, I've never been legitimately afraid of what the bike can do, and it's never been more than I can handle. Although, if Yamaha were to bring a 250 FI bike to the US I would probably buy that over the ninja because the other bikes that Yamaha makes are beasts

[Raven]

What bugs me is that why would Honda go for single cyl instead of two? They know they'd murder Ninjette if they do that. Im no brand loyalist but I freakin' love Honda's technology and ideas.

[CThunder-blue]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Is it even possible to get more beginner user friendly than the ninja? As a still beginner speaking, my 250 has been easy to work on, reliable, and enough fun to get in trouble with. However, I've never been legitimately afraid of what the bike can do, and it's never been more than I can handle. Although, if Yamaha were to bring a 250 FI bike to the US I would probably buy that over the ninja because the other bikes that Yamaha makes are beasts

I think the user friendly bit is just when you compare the start/ignition of the bikes. With the Honda's FI, it starts up and is consistent. You also don't need to worry so much about gumming up carbs if the gas has sat too long. For a person who's mechanically challenged, not being able to pull carbs to clean them can be a deal breaker. I, personally, prefer the looks of the ninja over the Honda. It will be interesting to see how well they sell.

[CThunder-blue]

Originally Posted by Raven

What bugs me is that why would Honda go for single cyl instead of two? They know they'd murder Ninjette if they do that. Im no brand loyalist but I freakin' love Honda's technology and ideas.

Cost? A single engine should cost less to produce than a twin cylinder engine.

[Xoulrath]

I didn't mean to imply that the Ninja 250 is a hard bike to ride. It isn't.

Nor did I ever say I was afraid of my bike. I had a moment, on an incline, where I was trying to turn onto a road with heavy traffic, with traffic backing up behind me, where I ran into an issue with the bike stalling. It wasn't because I was a new street rider; I have ridden dirt bikes enough to know the basic controls. I stalled because of the lack of torque at low rpm. I had to slip the clutch to almost 10k rpm before the bike would pull me and my weight up that steep incline. Having little experience on the Ninja and on street riding at that time, I was scared. Not so much of lifting the front end on the Ninja, though from YouTube videos I knew it was possible, but of impatient drivers trying to go around me and hitting me.

Again, I am sorry you both read that I think the Ninja is hard-to-ride, or not user-friendly. It is very easy to ride and very user friendly. When I say user-friendly in reference to the Honda, it has to do with the FI which is going to be much less jerky than our lean-from-the-factory Ninjas can be. The thumper motor delivers plenty of torque at a much lower and more usable rpm. Whether you realize it or not, this makes clutch operation easier. The option of ABS is a safety feature I think a lot of new riders would want. When the packages are compared as a whole, even if the Ninja is quicker in a straight line, the Honda wins in my mind. I simply feel it is a more polished package that meets the needs of a typical new rider better than the Ninja.

Again, the fact that the Ninja may be the better back-road burner, debatable based on several reviews I've seen favoring the Honda, is negligible. If you are talking specifically about the best bike available in the US market for new riders, I still feel the Honda is the package to go with.


Edit: As far as the GSX-R250 goes, sure it probably won't happen, but it has more to do with the manufacturers wanting to sell the larger bikes. I think if Honda pushes deep enough into Kawasaki territory with its 250 other manufacturers may follow. Consider rising gas prices and volatile markets and a less expensive, more fuel efficient bike makes sense. I think there is a real market, especially for the street (but certainly a viable option for the track), for 250cc supersports and/or 400cc supersports. I would love to see a 50hp/30lb-ft 325lb screamer with a decent adjustable suspension that could still push 50+mpg when asked for $6,000. As for Suzuki not moving bikes, especially 600s, well no one has really been moving bikes the last few years with this horrid economy, other than fuel sippers like the Ninja

[choneofakind]

The low end torque of the thumper would definitely make life easier for sure, but I really like the fact that our ninjas have more even power delivery than an inline4, but still have enough oomph up top to make it quick.

and your hopes for a GSX-R250 are making me drool. Reminds me of the zx-2r and the cbr250rr made in the early 90's suzuki actually made a 250cc I-4 but was only sold in asia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_GSX-R250

[choneofakind]

And CThunder-blue, you're right. FI would make the ninja incredibly easy to start up and go. Plus it's making 32 hp all the time, no matter the weather conditions. How much does a Euro-spec 250R with FI cost?

[TrueFaith]

I tend to agree with Xoulrath about the lack of low-end torque on the Ninjette. I've been riding my '08 Ninja for 3 years now and while the Ninjette is a great ride at 9k and above it's a completely different machine at low rpms. There isn't anything better than a nice spirited ride flirting with the redline on the Ninjette, but in the real world you run out of road way too fast. Most of my riding IS stoplight to stoplight and the lack of torque in low gears at low rpms is an annoyance that's hard to ignore. In city driving it becomes a tiring liability. More than once I've almost been run over by motorists behind me trying to accellerate from a dead stop while the engine stutters and bogs. It's probably also leading to premature clutch wear.
While I think the Ninja has a heck of a lot more "personality" than the Honda, sometimes you just want the bike to do what you ask of it without spitting and complaining first.
If Kawasaki added FI to the Ninjette I doubt anyone would be getting very excited about the Honda CBR250R, but not adding it allows Honda to tout the ease of starting from a dead stop and it's low-end torque and that IS getting a lot of attention from Ninjette riders like me. I'm pretty well sold on the new Honda, but if Kawasaki adds FI to the Ninjette in a year or two in response to big sales figures on the CBR250R, I may have to trade in the CBR250R and get back on a Ninjette at some point.

[Sailariel]

Kawa already has a 250R with FI. These people are not ignorant as to what will or will not sell. There are people who like singles--and they will be drawn to the Honda. Those of us who like twins will go for the Ninja.

I would not be surprised if Kawa would carefully monitor how well the Honda sells. If FI turns out as the tipping point, they already have an FI model which they could make available in the US--problem solved.

I am not an engineer like Alex, so I have no clue as to what is involved in bringing a European model to the US. It is done. Honda did it with the NT-700, which was a popular bike in Europe for the past ten years. Then, there are the California Specifications--It is all very complicated.

I do wish that Kawa would make a fuel injected 50 State model. My wife and I are both very much into things that help the environment. If a CA Ninja was available here in Maine, I would have bought one. I would think that having a European, California, and the rest of the 49 states and Canada Model Ninja would be expensive. I cannot figuere out the logic.

[sombo]

All they would have to do for a 50 state FI ninjette is change the speedo from KPH to MPH on the EU model and sell it here. The EU model already has higher emission standards than even CA, so they wouldn't need to do anything more to it. So many people in the USA just don't realize how low the USA emission standards are compared to the rest of the world. We have lower standards than China let alone EU. It's the EU emission standards that forced them to make the ninjette FI there because the carb'd version could not meet those standards (yet it can meet the CA standards which should tell you something).

So there you go, take the EU version, change out the speedo to MPH since we can't be like the rest of world and use the metric system, and you have the FI ninjette for the USA.

[choneofakind]

Plus the FI would make exhaust and intake changes easier, and there is a power commander available for the euro-spec 250. If the FI had been available when I bought my bike last summer, I would have gone for that without a second thought, even though I prefer the classic styling to the new style

[RedCromwell]

I am Kawi-brand loyalist. Without a second thought, I knew I'd get a Kawasaki. I just wasn't sure if I'd get a sports bike or a cruiser.

I took a peek on the competition and visited the Honda website to look at their CBR250R. I have to admit it is an attractive package.

My youngest son is thinking of getting into riding... I'd probably let him try out the Honda CBR250R to see what he's comfortable with. I think the low end torque and FI of the Honda would take some of the stress off a first-time rider.

But, if he does get a non-Kawi brand, he'll have to park it behind my Ninjette in the garage.

[tiggen]

If I had a bazillion $$ I would already be trying to figure out how to make the Honda faster. Wonder if anybody is actively doing it considering the contingency offered by Honda?

[almost40]

Wheres the youtube vid of the honda kawi 250 drag race?? Theres every other kind of drag race posted there.

[warlord]

Originally Posted by almost40

Wheres the youtube vid of the honda kawi 250 drag race?? Theres every other kind of drag race posted there.

It's really lame....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDfW2sM89Og

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by warlord

It's really lame....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDfW2sM89Og

and thats why people simply shouldn't drag race 250s. Twisties.

[Boom King]

The Honda came out on top in this shootout as well: http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs...out-90422.html

Seems this shootout was a lot closer though and they were "splitting hairs" to pick a final winner. The gave the edge to the Honda because of the EFI and the low end torque made its power more accessible for beginners than our peaky Ninja.

[KURT]

Originally Posted by Raven

What bugs me is that why would Honda go for single cyl instead of two? They know they'd murder Ninjette if they do that. Im no brand loyalist but I freakin' love Honda's technology and ideas.

You know a naked CBR250 is going to be a kick-azz lookin' machine. Something reminiscent of the old cafe's I'm certain there are body kits, and exhaust systems already in the works.

[Bill N]

Originally Posted by Boom King

The Honda came out on top in this shootout as well: http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs...out-90422.html

Seems this shootout was a lot closer though and they were "splitting hairs" to pick a final winner. The gave the edge to the Honda because of the EFI and the low end torque made its power more accessible for beginners than our peaky Ninja.

Looks like a fair review to me. Like I've written so many time before, my only complaint of the Ninjette is its low torque and low end feel up to about 40 MPH. But then she comes alive. The review said this too in so many words. I think just a front sprocket change could improve this but so far I'm riding stock. Fuel milage of the Ninjette surprised me. Makes me wonder how they managed the throttle. I get a solid 57MPG+ in city traffic with numerous red light stops commuting to work. On back roads riding with my liter bike friends at speeds I don't want to report, I get about 45 MPG. This is way better than what they achieved. Go figure. For me not being a newbie, the extra HP margine at highway speeds is very important and a big plus for the Ninjette. Can't wait to see how they compete on the track, especially stock versions.
Thanks to those posting these reviews. Bill

[Darling Ninja]

Sport Rider's upcoming May issue will also have a comparison:
Kawasaki Ninja 250 vs. Honda CBR250R vs. Hyosung GT250R.

I sat on the Honda CBR250R and it was taller than my Ninja. Aren't both supposed to have the same seat height? I was wearing the same shoes I wear when riding my Ninja.

[Cuongism]

Video review from motorcycle.com

Link to original page on YouTube.

Video begs the question....what boots does he have on??? I like them.

[Darling Ninja]

^^^That's Troy Siahaan! I used to work with him. Guess he's with motorcycle.com now. Cool guy.

[Cuongism]

Originally Posted by Darling Ninja

^^^That's Troy Siahaan! I used to work with him. Guess he's with motorcycle.com now. Cool guy.

Can you ask him what boots he's wearing

[Boom King]

Comparison from CycleWorld:
http://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle...omparison_test

Basically, CW really likes the Honda. Says it's slightly faster through the canyons than the Ninja, also a better commuter and can do fine up to 80mph on the freeway. Again, the low end torque makes the Honda a more capable urban commuter even though the Ninja's top end power gives it an edge for 0-60 times. This has been pretty consistent with just about all the comparisons. They also gave Honda props for the smooth operation of FI over carbs and longer valve maintenance intervals that are also easier to access. The MPG difference was not so dramatic in this comparison as some others: 57 for the Honda and 53 for our Ninja.

Nothing really negative about the Ninja in this write-up and CW was for the most part complimentary of the bike. They just felt that by their own words, "The CBR just plain works better everywhere, eliciting more toothy grins wherever it goes."

[Darling Ninja]

Originally Posted by Cuongism

Can you ask him what boots he's wearing

OK, I asked him. He said he's wearing the Alpinestars SMX-R boot.

He's happy that his video is being watched.

[Cuongism]

Thanks Annette! I'm not a fan of racing boots because of the power ranger look, but he makes them seem low key. Good to know that pants can go over them.

[Xoulrath]

A*'s SMX-R is what I have. It is a great boot. Very comfortable and you could probably wear them all day. I don't, but that is more to preserve the sole for riding. More importantly, they have a great flex and you can tell they will protect you should the need arise.

[V2Neal]

Got my latest issue today. I see our fearless leader has a letter keeping them honest. Nice work Alex!