slight movement in calipers after removing

[divil]

I changed my tires this weekend and after reinstalling the brake calipers, I noticed that there's a very slight movement in both of them (probably less than 1mm, but you can feel and hear it distinctly). The bolts are torqued to 18 ft/lbs, it it seems like the looseness is between the main body of the caliper and the bracket that that's bolted down. I didn't check before I removed them so it could have been like that to begin with - can anyone confirm is this is normal?

[Sirref]

Pics may help, just to make sure that everything is lined up properly

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by divil

I changed my tires this weekend and after reinstalling the brake calipers, I noticed that there's a very slight movement in both of them (probably less than 1mm, but you can feel and hear it distinctly). The bolts are torqued to 18 ft/lbs, it it seems like the looseness is between the main body of the caliper and the bracket that that's bolted down. I didn't check before I removed them so it could have been like that to begin with - can anyone confirm is this is normal?

The only thing that can move in the brakes of our Ninjettes are the pads; anything else will induce a fracture of the metal (the bolts in this case).

[divil]

I just had another look - the movement is in the part that's covered by the rubber grommets - are they called slide pins? The whole caliper - pads and all - can move, while the mounting plate is bolted down solidly. Any ideas what I can do about it?

[cuong-nutz]

The caliper has a little give as that's normal. when the brakes are applied, brake fluid pushes the pistons out from the caliper applying pressure onto the pads onto the brake rotor.

Now if it's rattling all over the place, maybe you have a bent or worn slide pin or rusted piston.

[divil]

Originally Posted by cuong-nutz

The caliper has a little give as that's normal. when the brakes are applied, brake fluid pushes the pistons out from the caliper applying pressure onto the pads onto the brake rotor.

Now if it's rattling all over the place, maybe you have a bent or worn slide pin or rusted piston.

Thanks that's good to know! It's really a tiny amount of movement. I could feel it and hear it more than see it, but if I look at the pad I can see a tiny space appear between the pad and disc as I rock it back and forth (a fraction of a mm). I just had another look, and the movement goes away completely with the lever applied (same front and rear). It was probably the same before, and I just never noticed.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by divil

.............. I look at the pad I can see a tiny space appear between the pad and disc as I rock it back and forth (a fraction of a mm). I just had another look, and the movement goes away completely with the lever applied (same front and rear).............

Please, see this thread:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=144199

Link to original page on YouTube.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Ghostt]

Have you serviced the calipers?

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by divil

I just had another look - the movement is in the part that's covered by the rubber grommets - are they called slide pins? The whole caliper - pads and all - can move, while the mounting plate is bolted down solidly. Any ideas what I can do about it?

The slide pins allow the caliper to slide, so that braking force is applied to both sides of the rotor even though the pistons are only on one side. If it didn't move, you'd have a problem.

[spooph]

Good info from everybody else. Let me add: If it "clicks" when applying the brakes your rotor is worn down and have a lip in it that the pads click across when applied to fully engage on the face of the rotor. You should replace your rotor, or it will aggressively wear the new brake pads. Or you can just let the brake pads wear as they are much cheaper than a new rotor, as long as the rotor still has enough meat and is within spec (4mm thick I believe).

[Thinker]

I just replaced my front rotor, pads and lubed the caliper pins with brake jelly and I also understand exactly how calipers work with necessary movement etc.

My question is why am I seeing not only the caliper move but also the rotor actually flexing when I apply the brake?!?!?

Tried so far:
1. Loosening all mounting hardware then while holding brake lever tourqeing everything down, including axle but starting with caliper mounting bolts.
2. Flipping pad chatter plate around, thinking that possibly the little lip was binding pad
3. Cursing...
4. Praying...

[Ghostt]

Did you make sure the caliper bracket is not bent?. Have you shimmed the caliper to make sure it's square with the rotor?

Below is my full write-up on calipers/brake service, which also covers the caliper bracket, shimming, etc.

I recommend that every time you change your pads, you service the calipers, he's my write-up to help you out. It should fix your initial problem, and keep your calipers in top working order.

For those of you whom are scratching their heads, here you go,*

Front Caliper Service (also rear as well)

Many folks have posted here with a Varity of front brake problems.

*Many of which are attributable to the lack of proper maintenance.

*Here’s how you can always have a brake like when your bike was new.

A short list of the problems and the causes.

Soft lever or lever goes to the bar.

The usual cause is the pistons are pushed too far back into the caliper by a flexing a warped, coned, disc.

*Using up too much piston travel before the disc is pinched.

Juddering in sync with wheel rotation.

The disc is worn, and its thickness varies. *This causes the caliper to “sink” into the thin part and when the thick part comes around, it gets wedged into a smaller space causing a tightening of the brake. Then the tight spot passes through and it like the brake is released. Then repeat, repeat.

Cupped, coned, or warped disc.

Unfortunately this is a common problem with EX’s the cause is the disc is stretched in the center due to being rigidly bolted to the wheel. *The huge force of braking is transmitted to the wheel through the webbed center of the disc which gets stretched and becomes larger than the space it occupies in the center of the disc. This causes the center to push to the side trying to find room for itself.

*Resulting is a cone shaped disc.

Soft lever 2

The caliper has pistons only on one side, so as the pads wear the caliper must shift sideways apply even pressure on both sides of the disc.

*To allow this the caliper floats on two pins. *If these pins get dry (no grease) dirty or bent. The caliper won’t center itself and bends the disc to wherever it is.

This take up lever travel and when released pushes the pistons further back than necessary.

*If not fixed will eventually destroy the disc (warp it).

Ok how to prevent all of the above.

When new pad time comes around, resist the temptation to just pop in new one and go.

*Every time you must do these things.

Remove caliper disassemble and clean it.

Clean and re grease the sliding pins.

Polish the caliper pistons to remove dirt. If you just push the pistons back into the caliper leaks will result. Or binding.

Tools required:
12 mm socket
8mm open end wrench
3” or bigger C clamp
a supply of new bake fluid.
wire brush and or steel wool.

Remove the caliper from the fork leg but leave the brake line on.

Remove the old pads and the mounting frame (the sliding pins)

Remove the cover from the Master Cylinder on the Handel bar.

Attach the C clamp to one of the pistons but don’t squeeze it. *Pump the lever on the bar slowly to push out the other piston almost all the way. *Put the C clamp on that piston and push out the other one.

Remove both pistons by hand.

Remove all the rubber part from the caliper, the seals are in the grooves in the caliper and dull pointed thingy will get them out easy.

Disconnect the caliper from the brake line.

Soak all the rubber parts in new clean brake fluid * ONLY!!!!! * Rub them with you fingers till as clean as new.

The caliper can be cleaned with a wire brush or even a Moto tool for the internal grooves, NOW’s the time to paint it if you wish.

Polish the pistons till they are smooth and shinny. They are chrome plated. If any of the plating is chipped or damaged below the dust cap groove. *Replace it.

The master cylinder is the subject of another write up and we’ll assume it in good working order here.

If you suspect your disc is bad, your bets bet is to replace it with an after market one fro EBC or Galpher.

*Don’t remove the disc unless you intend to replace it. *It will assume a new shape if it is * stressed and will not be flat again. You can try to check its condition by placing a straight edge across the face of the pad swept area looking for any distortion.

Re assembly

Take the nice clean rubber seals and install them into the caliper then the Dust covers.
Wet all the rubber with new clean brake fluid and partially fill the caliper with new fluid.

Push the pistons though the dust seals and into the caliper body until the dust covers snap into the grooves.

Fill the MC with new fluid and pump the lever while holding the Line above the MC till clean fluid flows.

Connect the line to the caliper while holding it above the MC.

Pump the lever with the bleeder valve open till fluid flow from the bleeder.

*Hold the caliper so that the bleeder is the highest point.

Close the bleeder and pump more fluid into the caliper but don’t push the pistons all the way out.

Then squeeze the pistons all the way back in and install the new pads.

Re grease the slider pins and assemble the dust seals and re mount the caliper on the forks but leave the bolts loose.

Now clamp the caliper to the disc with the brake lever.

Look at the space between the fork lugs and the caliper, clamp and release a few times as you tighten the bolts by hand. It one lug touches much before the other the odds are you mounting bracket is bent. You can straighten it.

*After you get it the best you can. Some shim washers made from alum can stock can be fitted to the loose side.*

** *What we are doing here is trying to minimize the bedd in time and gets the best pad life.


Ok with everything tight you should be through, Notice we don’t need to bleed the brakes, but if you screwed up in any of the above steps, you might do that here.

Be careful to Bedd in the new pads gently.

*Too much pressure too soon will burn the pad material as only a small area will be gripping at first. You also won’t have full braking power till the pads are fully familiar with the disc

I also recommend flush and fill with new brake fluid, also I'd go with 5.1DOT.

No matter what kind of brake fluid you choose, always periodically flush and fill with new fluid.

This is the one I use


https://m.motul.com/ca/en-us/product...-1-brake-fluid



Also inspect the brake lines, replace is needed, http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Stainle..._lines_upgrade

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When it comes to safety items like brakes, when in doubt, throw them out, it's your safety in your hands, and is cheaper than a visit to the ER.

Buy quality pads,I personally recommend EBC brand either the HH, or the Extreme HH.

EBC full floating rotor, replace the OEM rubber line with a stainless steel braided brake line, cheaper than replacing them with OEM.

On my 500 I have Spiegler line

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With all that, it will stop on a dime, and leave you nine cents in change.

look here http://ebcbrakes.com/products/motorcycle/

And also read this, http://www.ex-500.com/wiki/index.php...otors_and_Pads

That should answer any questions you might have.

[Thinker]

Thanks Ghostt, I will go through pulling the pistons, etc. and checking the squareness of the caliper to the rotor. These aluminum shims... are you talking homemade or bought from hrdwr store?

[Ghostt]

I personally use soda/beer cans. Your trying to get them square as possible with the rotor, this helps the pads contact the rotor as flat as possible, largest contact area, and helps the bedd time, which equals better braking performance

What kind/brand rotor and pads are you using? Was the rotor new? Used? Etc...

[Thinker]

Both brand new, both EBC. To check square can I take the bracket off the caliper, mount on the fork and measure both sides from the rotor?

[Ghostt]

Good I was concerned you were using used/cheap Chinese parts, brakes are one thing not to be cheap with.

That's a good place to start, but if you look at my write-up again, your looking for a slight differences, remember if you can use a soda can as a shim, your not looking at a lot.

Also look at the caliper to make sure the pistons are moving freely, and not binding.

I had a friend's bike that he kept eating you rear pads, I looked at, and after removing the caliper, it was that one of the pistons was not fully releasing, causing it to very slightly drag the brake.

After serving the caliper, no more issues, I also serviced the front too, because it had never been done. Afterwards he was amazed how well that his brakes actually worked, he was under the impression that it was just the way they were. Also the brake fluid was dark, nasty, etc..

Just taking a few extra minutes makes all the difference.

[Ghostt]

I do make house calls, depending on how far, weather, etc....

[Thinker]

Appreciate the offer, let me try your tips before thinking about a 600 mi trip right when Ohio is finally getting to its usual winter weather!

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by Thinker

Appreciate the offer, let me try your tips before thinking about a 600 mi trip right when Ohio is finally getting to its usual winter weather!

I heard that with my bad ear, same thing is happening here in south central Kentucky, winter is knocking on the door.

Maybe when the season starts back next year.

[Mohawk]

I wouldn't bother with DOT 5.1 fluid unless you are racing apart fro its heat resistance, it does NOT improve braking, but does cost more ! Your choice but the brake system is designed for use with DOT4 fluid which is cheap so you might as well use it !

YMMV

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by Mohawk

I wouldn't bother with DOT 5.1 fluid unless you are racing apart fro its heat resistance, it does NOT improve braking, but does cost more ! Your choice but the brake system is designed for use with DOT4 fluid which is cheap so you might as well use it !

YMMV

it does cost more, and it's just my personal choice and recommendation.

If one is hard on the brakes, and/or just wants the extra piece of mind.

In my write-up I do say that no matter which you choose, just be sure you flush and fill regularly.

It's like conventional oil Vs synthetic oil, which brand, viscosity, etc... age old argument, and endless threads have later it still goes on and on.

DOT 4 is fine, just like years ago DOT 3 was fine, but time, and braking technologies change, and DOT 4 was needed. So who knows when DOT 6 coming.

DOT standards change as the industry changes.

[Mohawk]

Sorry Ghost, I'm normally very polite but that is just utter TOSH.

5.1 is an improved DOT4 fluid with a higher thermal performance, designed like DOT5 silicone based for racing purposes. It should in fact be called 4.1 as its NOT silicone based like 5 is, so totally incompatible with DOT5 !

Unlike oil where cost has a large impact on the performance, NO one on the road would notice a difference on a 250/300cc motorcycle. In fact you'd be hard pressed to notice any difference on a track unless you had a really poor braking system, in which case the fluid would be the least of your worries.

As always YMMV

[Thinker]

Update: Over the winter I rebuilt both calipers, among many other things and have been rather pleased with braking so far this year. I've done about 600mi so far and they work great. I think I might be able to get a slightly stiffer lever if I bleed again but I can lock up rear(with too much ease...) and make the nose dive on demand w/o touching lever to bar so I'm going to probably leave it for now.

I didn't end up shimming the caliper bracket, I did some hammering and straightened it out against a slide ruler and found pretty good results. the caliper does still move slightly when I fully compress the lever but not nearly as bad as before.

[Triple Jim]

If the front is working right, you should be able to lock the wheel or do a stoppie, depending on traction, not just dive the nose.

[Thinker]

Stoppie's scare me, been over the bars on dirt bikes before a few times haha. I'll see if I can't get a little 'rise' out of her though today...

[Triple Jim]

I didn't mean you should go out and crash to test your brakes. Just that if the front is working as it should, it will do more than cause a nose dive before the lever gets near the bar. Really though, it's a good idea to practice extreme braking, so in traffic if you need to stop as fast as you can, it's automatic.