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Old April 26th, 2020, 03:11 PM   #41
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You are going 2 sizes thinner or -.10mm / -.004inches correct? To Increase intake tappet clearances a little beyond specs, correct?
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Old April 26th, 2020, 03:24 PM   #42
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i was going to -5 mm. if i go -10 i will be at lower end of spec
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Old April 26th, 2020, 04:47 PM   #43
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Thinner shims makes a WIDER Gap, don't they? If you were running a 270 in a valve at near max spec, my suggestion is to install a 260.

That is -.10mm of shim size to gain clearance to allow the intake valve to close earlier & more completely, to reduce reversion.
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Old April 26th, 2020, 10:51 PM   #44
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i understand that but i will at the bottom end of the spec if i go that far down. 3 out 4 valves had 2.80 shim. i was going down to 2.75. this would put me in the middle of my spec. currently i’m at .24 mm on intake valve clearance.
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Old April 26th, 2020, 11:04 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdwestman View Post
Thinner shims makes a WIDER Gap, don't they? If you were running a 270 in a valve at near max spec, my suggestion is to install a 260.

That is -.10mm of shim size to gain clearance to allow the intake valve to close earlier & more completely, to reduce reversion.
thinner shim reduces your gap. my spec is .15-24mm
-10 would put me out of spec or a 2.70 shim. 2.75 would put me at.19mm (in spec)
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Old April 26th, 2020, 11:37 PM   #46
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Old April 27th, 2020, 08:18 AM   #47
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Over-spec clearance is exactly what I am suggesting, to reduce reversion.

From our earlier conversations,
"Feeling for actual tappet clearance on the intake rocker arms, the cam lobe closing ramps seemed to trail off extremely far.
I opened all 4 intake valve tappets .004" OVER-Specs to allow the bloody intake valves to actually Close completely, more normally.
Worked perfect & no excess tick."
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Old April 27th, 2020, 08:23 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdwestman View Post
Over-spec clearance is exactly what I am suggesting, to reduce reversion.

From our earlier conversations,
"Feeling for actual tappet clearance on the intake rocker arms, the cam lobe closing ramps seemed to trail off extremely far.
I opened all 4 intake valve tappets .004" OVER-Specs to allow the bloody intake valves to actually Close completely, more normally.
Worked perfect & no excess tick."
so go to .30 mm? so go to .29-.30?my shims are in increments of .5mm. i do have shims for that. i can get to .29mm.
thicker shims increase the clearance.
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Old April 27th, 2020, 08:38 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick9611 View Post
thinner shim reduces your gap. my spec is .15-24mm
-10 would put me out of spec or a 2.70 shim. 2.75 would put me at.19mm (in spec)
I think you have confused yourself. Thinner Shim Increases the tappet clearance.

And that is what I am suggesting you should try.
Intake tappet clearances of .30-.33mm / .012-.013inches.
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Old April 27th, 2020, 08:44 AM   #50
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did you look at chart? if i have 2.80 shim and iím at .24mm. i will have to put a 2.85 shim in to get to .29mm
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Old April 27th, 2020, 08:44 AM   #51
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Old April 27th, 2020, 09:46 AM   #52
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sorry, yes i got confused. i found the handy calculator
http://www.crfsonly.com/calculators/...-shim-calc.php
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Old April 27th, 2020, 10:47 AM   #53
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i can go to .34 and do have the shims to do it.
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Old April 27th, 2020, 01:00 PM   #54
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Could you list your existing clearances before anything's changed?
Would be good to correlate actual changes to observed behavioral differences.
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Old April 27th, 2020, 01:17 PM   #55
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at max on intakes
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Old April 28th, 2020, 11:48 AM   #56
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that tensioner grease reset is no joke. talk about a fumble puzzle
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Old April 28th, 2020, 01:53 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by maverick9611 View Post
at max on intakes
So you're at ~0.24mm clearance on intakes already? If so, I can't imagine overlap reversion being problem as it ran fine from factory with that setting.

What are your individual exhaust clearances?

Now timing of cam-lobes is critically important as well. Worn or mis-adjusted cam-chain will retard cams and result in later intake-closing. Engine should scream and rev like banshee in upper-RPMs with this mod (be more like pre-gen). But again, I can't imagine how Seafoam will affect this for better or worse.
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Old April 28th, 2020, 02:04 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
So you're at ~0.24mm clearance on intakes already? If so, I can't imagine overlap reversion being a problem as it ran fine from factory with that setting.

What are your individual exhaust clearances?

Now timing of cam-lobes is critically important as well. Worn or mis-adjusted cam-chain will retard cams and result in later intake-closing. But again, I can't imagine how Seafoam will affect this for better or worse.
i havenít checked exhaust valve lately but i did check them while troubleshooting and they were in spec. iím going to follow paulís lead on this. he is a legend in the klr world and had done extensive detailed experiments/trials of the klr engine. what have i got to lose? iíve tried everything else. here is a good read for motorcyclist.
https://www.souperdoo.com/stuff%20th...ht-oil-burning
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Old April 28th, 2020, 09:03 PM   #59
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Well, nothing to lose at this point.

Simply does not make sense that stock-settings do not work. Which is a sign there's some non-stock specifications in engine somewhere. That can be measured. If changing cam-specs changes behavior, then something is really non-stock spec in system right now. A degree wheel and dial-indicator to measure actual valve-travel all 720-degrees around would give data to track down what's not stock.

Unanswered clue is why bike changed back to good behavior with Seafoam. If only temporarily.

Also not answered is why one cylinder would be off? Cam-lobes are synchronized. Crank-throws are synchronized and fixed. Unless one cam-lobe can rotate on shaft and change their timing or one crank-throw can rotate on crank, it simply doesn't make sense how one cylinder can change without other*.
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Old April 29th, 2020, 01:22 AM   #60
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i donít know either. seafoam equals carb issue to me. carbs have gone thru twice by gordon. iíve scoured the matrix have not found any cases that like whatís goin on with this engine.
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Old April 29th, 2020, 05:56 AM   #61
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the fact remains that this fault apparently started instantly, midride *before I ever even saw your carbs the 1st time*

Have you switched carbsets between your 2 bikes?

Did the increase in intake valve clearances have any effect at all? I'm not reading any actual feedback on its effect.

And no specific posting of actual clearances both *intake & exhaust both before and after* your clearance changes?
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Old April 29th, 2020, 06:14 AM   #62
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the fact remains that this fault apparently started instantly, midride *before I ever even saw your carbs the 1st time*

Have you switched carbsets between your 2 bikes?

Did the increase in intake valve clearances have any effect at all? I'm not reading any actual feedback on its effect.

And no specific posting of actual clearances both *intake & exhaust both before and after* your clearance changes?
green bike was sold off so i didnít get a chance to swap carbs. danno did send me a ignitor and race carbs and no change.
i had done the valves 3-6 months b4 the so called problem. while troubleshooting this past year i checked clearances on intake and exhaust. clearances with at top end of spec on both. they had not changed since i first checked them and adjusted them. compression was checked and it passed in middle of the spec on both cylinders. cam phasing was triple checked. iím going by kaw shop today to pick up a 2.70 shim. this will put my intakes at .34mm. i havenít got it together as i rebuilt/greased cam chain tensioner yesterday.(not fun) everyday i keep chipping away at it
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Old April 29th, 2020, 06:17 AM   #63
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staying pretty busy due to working at cardinalhealth. we are wide open trying support the defeat of the virus outbreak.
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Old April 30th, 2020, 01:29 PM   #64
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question on cct

i got cams phased and timed. how do i find out if my automatic chain cam tensioner is working? after rebuild grease, the plunger was in the fully retract position. what makes it move forward? when you bolt it into the housing?
while rotating it i can the look down the chain guide the plastic guide is flopping around. also certain point in crank rotation where are all the lobes are not on the valves and the cam chain goes slack. is this normal?
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Old April 30th, 2020, 02:44 PM   #65
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Cam chain shouldn't be loose.

I assume you used screwdriver on back of CCT to wind up piston & spring inside?
How are you holding that so they don't pop out?
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Old April 30th, 2020, 02:46 PM   #66
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maverick9611, You need to remove the 'T' lock in the cap bolt hole after installing into the chain tunnel. Otherwise it Can't Work.
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Old April 30th, 2020, 03:04 PM   #67
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Cam chain shouldn't be loose.

I assume you used screwdriver on back of CCT to wind up piston & spring inside?
How are you holding that so they don't pop out?
i went by this guide.
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...hain+tensioner
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Old April 30th, 2020, 03:05 PM   #68
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maverick9611, You need to remove the 'T' lock in the cap bolt hole after installing into the chain tunnel. Otherwise it Can't Work.
how?
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Old April 30th, 2020, 03:18 PM   #69
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i followed the guide but he never said what to do to get to preload once in the housing. mine is fully would back and under tension. plunger retracted. this is the only way to get it back together with snap ring on the end. was not fun at all.
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Old April 30th, 2020, 03:42 PM   #70
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Do you or do you not have the T lock holding the center shaft from spiraling out?

You would have had to build your own T lock, there is a diagram in the oem service manual.

Like his second from last pic, IMG 6200? The T lock must be removed after assembling into the engine.

I don't think the factory Ever intended anyone to dis-assemble & re-grease the auto tensioner, it lives in a very well oiled environment.
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Old May 1st, 2020, 01:46 AM   #71
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no I don't. it's under tension now but it's in full retract(the plunger) so what do I do to get this to work?
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Old May 1st, 2020, 02:56 AM   #72
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this is where im at
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Old May 1st, 2020, 03:29 AM   #73
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a stop can be placed on the plunger? his picture looks like mine. under tension and fully retracted. I should have never taken it apart. last valve check, I put screwdriver in and spun housing counterclockwise to reset cct.
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Old May 1st, 2020, 08:03 AM   #74
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I'm guessing that some how or another you have got the spring wound backwards & holding the tensioner retracted, instead of the spring trying to extend the plunger.
You need to look more carefully at pic #6200. Do you not see the steel blade in the cross slot?

Do you not have a service manual for your bike? Go on-line to kawasaki.com. Owners Center. Manuals.
View or download page 5-15 to see size of 'T' lock to build to hold tensioner compressed after proper reassembly & re-winding.

Or you can purchase a new tensioner (which will come compressed, with T lock installed, ready to install into engine). Keep the T lock for future valve train servicing.
One can even see the T lock holding the tensioner compressed (ready for assembly) in the parts Diagram!

Last futzed with by pdwestman; May 1st, 2020 at 08:27 AM. Reason: added line
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Old May 1st, 2020, 10:00 AM   #75
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Yeah, not sure how you have it wound up and not spring back out when let go. Typically you wind it up by turning with screwdriver.

Vex's process winds it up just before you install onto block. Hold with screwdriver as you install: https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...47&postcount=2

Tool looks like this. You can use tip of Xacto knife.



So what was your beginning valve-clearances and final after adjustment?
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Old May 1st, 2020, 10:02 AM   #76
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it's too late. I totally destroyed the spring. this evolution was total crap. I'm buying a manual one.
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Old May 1st, 2020, 10:24 AM   #77
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it's too late. I totally destroyed the spring. this evolution was total crap. I'm buying a manual one.
Don't blame the part. You disassembled something that was never intended to be disassembled.

I hate to have to say things like this,
How much is a service manual? How much is a cam chain tensioner, oem or manual model?
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Old May 1st, 2020, 10:34 AM   #78
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I have a service manual. I agree. this part was never suppose to ever come apart. I have a manual one coming for $40. the first time I did valves, I wound it by turning the tensioner and sticking a screwdriver in the rear and holding it steady. I wound the tensioner body and it worked perfectly. well, I have about a few days to think about that friggin tensioner. I will drink it away today
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Old May 1st, 2020, 10:57 AM   #79
DannoXYZ
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Be sure to schedule monthly tension adjustment with manual unit. Leaving too long will destroy your chain and cams.
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Old May 1st, 2020, 10:59 AM   #80
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