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Old November 23rd, 2018, 10:27 AM   #1
Karman
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Petcock plumbing

Hello all, I have researched and am pretty sure how the plumbing goes to the carbs...however I have a T connector which one end is going towards the front of the bike. I wanted to know how to connect the pet cock and that line that is going to the front. When I took off the gas tank the pet cock vacuum line was already disconnected. Probably why my bike wasnít running on the Ďoní position
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Old November 23rd, 2018, 12:38 PM   #2
jkv45
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Does this help? - https://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Carburetor_photos

More carb info - https://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Intake
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Old November 24th, 2018, 06:32 AM   #3
Karman
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Incase anyone reads this, I was able to fix the issue. The bike was not able to run with the petcock in the on position only prime. The previous owner did some odd work to it and left the petcock vacuum line unplugged. I removed the kleen air system and plugged the petcock into the carbs and the bike starts up right away now. I also added three washers under each needle and removed the snorkle from the air box with a kn filter. I have a slip on Vince something exhaust.

My question is although the bike seems to be good now, it is around 35 degrees out.. Iím sure that it will be slightly running rich once the weather warms up...

Will removing the CAT in the exhaust help to lean out the system? Even if it only leans it out 1% do the fellow forum people believe it will achieve a leaning out effect? Thanks I appreciate your opinions
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Old November 24th, 2018, 12:47 PM   #4
Karman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Newgen (2008-2012) bike is already super-rich from factory. Here's what I have on my race bike:

- Tyga full-exhaust, no cat, Tyga free-flow muffler
- K&N filter
- snorkel removed

All this produces +20% more air-flow than stock and generates +20% more power and guess what? It's still rich. Dyno-testing with Spears Racing (sponsor) gave best results with going to smaller main-jets than factory. Down from factory 98 to 96, even 94 in summer.


If you read people's reports over time, you'll find that they get stumbling and mis-behaving. So they put bigger jets into their carbs and the problem is fixed right? But couple years later, they get stumbling again and put even larger and larger jets in to fix. Problem here isn't that carbs are setup lean originally and gets leaner and leaner over time. It's because their carb's fuel-circuits are getting clogged with dried fuel! The solution is to completely disassemble the cars, clean out all jets with wire, soak with real cleaners that'll take skin off nuclear subs, dunk in ultrasonic cleaner for days, soda-blast all fuel-circuits to clean and clear.

The issue isn't that carbs are lean, as implied by solution of bigger jets. That's just monkeying around with symptoms of real problem. That carbs aren't factory-clean. They ran perfectly when leaving the factory, and they should run perfectly fine with factory configuration when things are factory-fresh clean. I've had carbs on my pre-gen and new-gen 250s refurbished to factory-fresh clean condition by ducatiman and they run perfectly fine in stock configuration. I've even downsized jets on all of them to improve power and performance.
Wow, if thatís true seems 95% of people are misinformed since so many people rave about the needle shimming.
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Old November 24th, 2018, 02:03 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karman View Post
Wow, if that’s true seems 95% of people are misinformed since so many people rave about the needle shimming.
Yup, getting cause & effect mixed up. I'd say that more than 95% of people did not buy their Ninja 250s as brand-new bikes off showroom floor. Thus they inherited unknown history with many, many stretches of long-term storage in garages, sheds, shacks without proper pre-storage preparation of fuel-stabilizers and carb float-bowl emptying. As such more than 95% of these bikes need thorough carb-cleaning back to factory-fresh condition. The bikes I've had refurbed back to factory-clean conditions do not need needle-shimming. That's still compensating for clogged carbs.

What is "easy" is often not proper & correct or high-performance. What is correct and proper operation, also yielding high-performance is often not "easy". So choosing between 30-minutes to add some shims or 20-60hrs of carb-cleaning? I can see why 95% of people take the easy way out. But it's only a temporary solution like cocaine or meth, the effects and results are not permanent. You'll be back for more...


Also note that your new-gen model (08-12), while sharing many similarities with pre-gen 88-07 models, also have some very clear differences. The pre-gen models have extremely aggressive cam-specs for 14.5k-redline and makes peak-HP at redline. New-gen models are tuned more for mid-range-torque, has about 10% less power which peaks at 11k and redlines around 13k. I don't ever rev past 12k anyway since torque&power drops off so fast after 11k that the bike is actually slower when spun up. However, I can make freeway passes without shifting on new-gen due to mid-range torque, while on pre-gen biks, I'd have to downshift 2-gears. The carb-tuning and ignition-mappings therefore are configured differently for these two different engines. Keep a note of that when reading this board; not all mods for pre-gens apply to new-gens and vice-versa.
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Old November 24th, 2018, 02:09 PM   #6
Karman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Yup, getting cause & effect mixed up. I'd say that more than 95% of people did not buy their Ninja 250s as brand-new bikes off showroom floor. Thus they inherited unknown history with many, many stretches of long-term storage in garages, sheds, shacks without proper pre-storage preparation of fuel-stabilizers and carb float-bowl emptying. As such more than 95% of these bikes need thorough carb-cleaning back to factory-fresh condition. The bikes I've had refurbed back to factory-clean conditions do not need needle-shimming. That's still compensating for clogged carbs.

What is "easy" is often not proper & correct or high-performance. What is correct and proper operation, also yielding high-performance is often not "easy". So choosing between 30-minutes to add some shims or 20-60hrs of carb-cleaning? I can see why 95% of people take the easy way out. But it's only a temporary solution like cocaine or meth, the effects and results are not permanent.
Interesting, I appreciate you sharing your knowledge! My question is, if I leave the shims in until my bike starts giving me problems again and then at that time thoroughly clean the carbs and remove the shims will I be doing any damage?
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Old November 24th, 2018, 02:21 PM   #7
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Shouldn't be a problem. You're compensating for earlier fuel-circuit restrictions by opening up later passages so overall fueling is close to appropriate.

Once you get carbs completely clean and factory-fresh, you'll find 3-washers is too much and may bog bike down when opening throttle. So you'll want to go down to 1-washer to adjust for muffler & snorkel-removal in mid-range.

In high-end/full-throttle you'll still be too-rich @ 10:1 AFR, which can really only be adjusted with changing main-jets and needle-taper. The Dynojet kit does this by using smaller main-jets and needle with thicker tip (less taper) to lean out high-end. Remember that '60s hot-rod slogan...
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Old November 24th, 2018, 02:31 PM   #8
Karman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Shouldn't be a problem. You're compensating for earlier fuel-circuit restrictions by opening up later passages so overall fueling is close to appropriate.

Once you get carbs completely clean and factory-fresh, you'll find 3-washers is too much and may bog bike down when opening throttle. So you'll want to go down to 1-washer to adjust for muffler & snorkel-removal in mid-range.

In high-end/full-throttle you'll still be too-rich @ 10:1 AFR, which can really only be adjusted with changing main-jets and needle-taper. The Dynojet kit does this by using smaller main-jets and needle with thicker tip (less taper) to lean out high-end. Remember that '60s hot-rod slogan...
Okay cool, when the bike seems to be running poorly again I will be sure to take out the carbs to clean them. Will try with one washer and rejet and possibly dyno etc. hopefully it can hold me until next winter ... when u store the bike should I drain the carbs if I pour sta bil and 93 non ethanol gas in the tank?
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Old November 24th, 2018, 04:08 PM   #9
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Yep, still drain carb bowls after you've added Sta-bil and non-ethanol gas (octane doesn't matter).

Also helps to run through bottle of PEA-rich fuel-system cleaner every couple months to keep carbs clear of dried-gas gel. Red Line SI-1 or Chevron Techron Concentrate (1/2 bottle per tank twice).
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