ninjette.org

Go Back   ninjette.org > 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R > 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 22nd, 2018, 07:50 PM   #1
FluxX
ninjette.org newbie
 
Name: Dylan
Location: Port Elizabeth
Join Date: Oct 2018

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R 2012

Posts: 8
Question Power Commander vs Performance

Hey guys, I have a few rookie questions for the professionals . I have a 2012 FI model of the ninja 250r .What sort of performance increase can one expect with a PCV installed with a tuned fuel map? Do you get slightly more low end torque? My 250 has a straight slip on .Air filter is standard. I know the purpose of a PCV is correct fuel to air ratio and not necessarily to magically give a performance boost..
My PCV is disconnected for diagnosis purposes.Not sure if its placebo but I feel like there is a slight performance loss when pulling off.
Lastly is there anyway to increase top end on these bikes without any major modifications? With my current config.Im limiting at 140 kmph (86mph) maybe hitting 150kmph tucked properly with no wind (provided my speedo is somewhat correct). I weigh around 80KGs (176lbs).I understand these are only 250s but I love the idea we are able to really ride them hard and if I can squeeze a little more performance out of mine il be happy. (:
FluxX is offline   Reply With Quote




Old December 23rd, 2018, 09:30 AM   #2
csmith12
The Corner Whisperer
 
csmith12's Avatar
 
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track)

Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
With a good air/fuel/exhaust mix and tune, there is a bit of performance to be gained. Not much... but a little. Going further, you can tailor the fuel map and gearing to your style of riding to further bring out the performance characteristics of the bike's nimbleness in tight corners. Your tire's profile and size will also play a large role in this.

Take some time and plan it out. Getting the most out of these lil bikes takes a near complete package. Just adding a pc isn't really going to be enough. Either way, these bikes are a little on the lean side out of the crate, so adding a bit more fuel never hurts.

The trick is.... put the mods where you will feel it, if you know what I mean.
csmith12 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old December 23rd, 2018, 10:50 AM   #3
jkv45
Rev Limiter
 
jkv45's Avatar
 
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013

Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 SV650n project, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
Quote:
Originally Posted by FluxX View Post
Hey guys, I have a few rookie questions for the professionals . I have a 2012 FI model of the ninja 250r .What sort of performance increase can one expect with a PCV installed with a tuned fuel map? Do you get slightly more low end torque? My 250 has a straight slip on .Air filter is standard. I know the purpose of a PCV is correct fuel to air ratio and not necessarily to magically give a performance boost..
My PCV is disconnected for diagnosis purposes.Not sure if its placebo but I feel like there is a slight performance loss when pulling off.
Lastly is there anyway to increase top end on these bikes without any major modifications? With my current config.Im limiting at 140 kmph (86mph) maybe hitting 150kmph tucked properly with no wind (provided my speedo is somewhat correct). I weigh around 80KGs (176lbs).I understand these are only 250s but I love the idea we are able to really ride them hard and if I can squeeze a little more performance out of mine il be happy. (:
Is 140 KPH (86 MPH) the speedo reading? If so, something isn't right. That's low for a stock bike - especially because the speedos read high.

Other than the slip-on, have you made any changes? What do you mean by a "straight" slip-on?
jkv45 is online now   Reply With Quote


Old December 23rd, 2018, 11:14 AM   #4
FluxX
ninjette.org newbie
 
Name: Dylan
Location: Port Elizabeth
Join Date: Oct 2018

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R 2012

Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
Is 140 KPH (86 MPH) the speedo reading? If so, something isn't right. That's low for a stock bike - especially because the speedos read high.

Other than the slip-on, have you made any changes? What do you mean by a "straight" slip-on?
Thanks for the Feedback guys.
Okay so I purchased the bike from someone that used it as a track bike. I then started to encounter random stalls on the highway so I disconnected the power commander and reverted to stock for diagnosis purposes.Long story short this may sound wierd but I may be getting a airlock in my tank or some sort because if i dont open the tank lid before i commute i will stall about 10 mins down the road.Anyhow that's something else to look into. I plan on taking it into my local Kawasaki dealer so they can do a proper dyno and do the mapping.
When I say straight slip on I mean theres no muffler .The slip on has replaced that section of the exhaust.No other serious mods that I know of air filter is also standard...Yes 86mph is what the speedos reading, thats max throttle...I thought it was low top end even for a 250r . That's disappointing, what's the best course of action? Bike seems to run perfectly otherwise idles abit rough on startup but after a min its revs fine...then again I'm no expert. Ive attached a photo for interest sake.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20180930_191322.jpg (96.4 KB, 4 views)
FluxX is offline   Reply With Quote


Old December 23rd, 2018, 11:30 AM   #5
jkv45
Rev Limiter
 
jkv45's Avatar
 
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013

Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 SV650n project, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
Quote:
Originally Posted by FluxX View Post
Thanks for the Feedback guys.
Okay so I purchased the bike from someone that used it as a track bike. I then started to encounter random stalls on the highway so I disconnected the power commander and reverted to stock for diagnosis purposes.Long story short this may sound wierd but I may be getting a airlock in my tank or some sort because if i dont open the tank lid before i commute i will stall about 10 mins down the road.Anyhow that's something else to look into. I plan on taking it into my local Kawasaki dealer so they can do a proper dyno and do the mapping.
When I say straight slip on I mean theres no muffler .The slip on has replaced that section of the exhaust.Yes 86mph is what the speedos reading, thats max throttle...I thought it was low top end even for a 250r . That's disappointing, what's the best course of action? Bike seems to run perfectly otherwise idles abit rough on startup but after a min its revs fine...then again I'm no expert. Ive attached a photo for interest sake.
That's typical of a clogged or pinched tank vent hose.

I would at least get a proper slip-on muffler, and maybe a BMC air filter, before hitting the dyno. I'd also wait until you figured out why it isn't running properly before taking it to a shop for dyno tuning. Make sure they really know how to tune properly - or you'll waste a bunch of money and get little in return.

A good full exhaust system like an Akrapovič is an improvement if you are looking for maximum performance and cost isn't a major factor. Either way, get a real muffler on it. That alone may make it run better. You don't necessarily get more power with a more open exhaust.

Other things to check would be the condition of the plugs, valve adjustment, TB sync, and other common maintenance items.
jkv45 is online now   Reply With Quote


Old December 23rd, 2018, 04:41 PM   #6
FluxX
ninjette.org newbie
 
Name: Dylan
Location: Port Elizabeth
Join Date: Oct 2018

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R 2012

Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
That's typical of a clogged or pinched tank vent hose.

I would at least get a proper slip-on muffler, and maybe a BMC air filter, before hitting the dyno. I'd also wait until you figured out why it isn't running properly before taking it to a shop for dyno tuning. Make sure they really know how to tune properly - or you'll waste a bunch of money and get little in return.

A good full exhaust system like an Akrapovič is an improvement if you are looking for maximum performance and cost isn't a major factor. Either way, get a real muffler on it. That alone may make it run better. You don't necessarily get more power with a more open exhaust.

Other things to check would be the condition of the plugs, valve adjustment, TB sync, and other common maintenance items.
Alright, going to organize the BMC air filter and slowly start getting everything in order before taking it in. Will have a look at exhaust systems and see what's available to me.So you reckon something is definitely not right with the top end of this bike? Is it not possible it's running to a insufficient ratio due to the current slip on, or perhaps a sprocket has less teeth for low end torque (track purposes)
Sorry if the questions are silly.Just trying to educate myself at the same time. It concerns me if I'm not reaching optimal top speed of a stock 250.
FluxX is offline   Reply With Quote


Old December 23rd, 2018, 04:52 PM   #7
jkv45
Rev Limiter
 
jkv45's Avatar
 
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013

Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 SV650n project, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
Quote:
Originally Posted by FluxX View Post
Alright, going to organize the BMC air filter and slowly start getting everything in order before taking it in. Will have a look at exhaust systems and see what's available to me.So you reckon something is definitely not right with the top end of this bike? Is it not possible it's running to a insufficient ratio due to the current slip on, or perhaps a sprocket has less teeth for low end torque (track purposes)
Sorry if the questions are silly.Just trying to educate myself at the same time. It concerns me if I'm not reaching optimal top speed of a stock 250.
A completely stock 250 will run just about 100 MPH.

Is your top speed in 6th gear at the rev limiter? If so, that would tell you the bike has lower gearing, but you can also check by counting the teeth. Pretty sure you should have 14 front 45 rear - but confirm for your year.

The open exhaust could be leaning the mixture enough to reduce the power.
jkv45 is online now   Reply With Quote


Old December 23rd, 2018, 11:08 PM   #8
Alex
ninjette.org dude
 
Alex's Avatar
 
Name: 1 guess :-)
Location: SF Bay Area
Join Date: Jun 2008

Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE, '15 CRF110F, '13 TT-R50E

Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
A completely stock 250 will run just about 100 MPH.
Maybe a well-running pre-gen. A stock new-gen may not hit 100 mph (GPS) on level ground as easily. I know mine wouldn't, at least. Rider size certainly plays a part as well.
__________________________________________________
Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org

ninjette.org Terms of Service, ninjette.org Member Map

Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first.

The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered)
Alex is offline   Reply With Quote


Old December 24th, 2018, 08:02 AM   #9
jkv45
Rev Limiter
 
jkv45's Avatar
 
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013

Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 SV650n project, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex View Post
Maybe a well-running pre-gen. A stock new-gen may not hit 100 mph (GPS) on level ground as easily. I know mine wouldn't, at least. Rider size certainly plays a part as well.
Good point Alex. I'm more familiar with PreGens, but 140 KPH/86 MPH seems really low - especially if it's a speedo reading (he didn't say).

Something doesn't seem right.
jkv45 is online now   Reply With Quote


Old December 24th, 2018, 07:37 PM   #10
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: SF East Bay
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T, Ninja250R racer, Ninja250R street bike, EX250F#1, EX250F#2, VF500F, CBR600RR

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Newgen might have 105mph showing on speedo, but actual top-speed is closer to 94mph.

Certainly appears to be some issues with bike,:

- tank vent issue, check all hoses, do vent-cap mod
- vacuum leak
- sensor calibration: IAT, ECT, MAP, TPS, etc.

Do you have oscilloscope?
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is the Power commander what I'm looking for? JA-Moo 2013 - 2017 Ninja 300 Tech Talk 9 May 14th, 2018 12:40 AM
Power commander 5 joecool 2013 - 2017 Ninja 300 Tech Talk 27 October 17th, 2014 05:03 AM
power commander? bandit_fosky 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 14 January 16th, 2013 02:05 PM
Dynojet Power commander 5 FvnnyL3tt3r1ng 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 3 September 23rd, 2012 03:23 PM
Power Commander for new bike? dive1tom General Motorcycling Discussion 5 December 8th, 2009 08:53 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Motorcycle Safety Foundation

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:46 PM.


remote server monitor
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Except where otherwise noted, all site contents are Copyright 2016 ninjette.org, All rights reserved.