So this is why they tell you to check your bike before riding

[kdogg2077]

So I was outside my apartment yesterday, getting ready to go running, when I decided to give my bike a look over and I noticed this.

photo 2 (1) by ark2077, on Flickr

I don't know much about bikes but that didn't seem right. Further looking showed this on other side.

photo 1 (1) by ark2077, on Flickr

So my rear tire axle bolt literally almost came out when I was riding. About 2 or 3 weeks ago I had a local dealership put on two new tires. I have to believe their mechanic just totally screwed up. This isn't normal. I texted subxero and he said they must have not torqued the bolt enough and they must have broken the pin that goes into the bolt as a backup.

I had been hearing noises that worried me but they came from the front of the bike. Now I'm wondering if this bolt coming loose put stress on other parts of the bike.

So i'll be headed to the dealership tomorrow to flip out.

Has anyone has something like this happen to them? Guess I should be thankful I'm not in the hospital.

[JohnnyBravo]

Yikes... It's always good to check your equipment; glad you caught it before it caught you!

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by kdogg2077

.........Has anyone has something like this happen to them? Guess I should be thankful I'm not in the hospital.

It has never happened to me because I have never trusted the mechanics of my bikes to anybody.

No really stress on other parts but a very dangerous condition indeed.
Your chain could have jumped out and locked up your rear wheel when riding at high speed, leading to a very bad accident.

You have a very good guardian angel !!!

I am very glad that you caught that so opportunely.

[kdogg2077]

Originally Posted by Motofool

You have a very good guardian angel !!!

I do! I was this close to not going running. If I hadn't been outside to do that I wouldn't have noticed it.

[EternalNewb]

Scary! I'm really glad you caught that. I'd be livid and having serious trust issues right about now if that were me.

[Ninjinsky]

Originally Posted by kdogg2077

This isn't normal. I texted subxero and he said they must have not torqued the bolt enough and they must have broken the pin that goes into the bolt as a backup.

That should have a split pin and they don't break so I suspect it wasn't there in the first place.
Also inadequately torqued it should be in the region of 80- 100ft lbs Unfortunately while the nut is a fairly stock item you seem to have lost the plate as well which will mean a delay waiting for the part.

HOWEVER there is another possibility and that is that someone was trying to steal your nice new rear tire and got disturbed. Check around the area for the nut and plate

[kdogg2077]

Originally Posted by Ninjinsky

That should have a split pin and they don't break so I suspect it wasn't there in the first place.
Also inadequately torqued it should be in the region of 80- 100ft lbs Unfortunately while the nut is a fairly stock item you seem to have lost the plate as well which will mean a delay waiting for the part.

HOWEVER there is another possibility and that is that someone was trying to steal your nice new rear tire and got disturbed. Check around the area for the nut and plate

Yes I did consider the possibility someone was trying to steal the tire and ran. It just seems unlikely. It was a clear Saturday afternoon with people everywhere. Not a great time for theft. I don't live in a high crime area.

[Snake]

+1 for checking out your bike before a ride. Don't forget tire pressure and fluid levels.

[Ninjinsky]

Originally Posted by kdogg2077

Yes I did consider the possibility someone was trying to steal the tire and ran. It just seems unlikely. It was a clear Saturday afternoon with people everywhere. Not a great time for theft. I don't live in a high crime area.

Well that was when you found out but not necessarily the time and place it was done.

[antiant]

TCLOCS. Always good to do, before riding. So easy to forget, especially when you're in a hurry too. Luckily, you caught it before it turned into something catastrophic.

[Ninjinsky]

Originally Posted by Snake

+1 for checking out your bike before a ride. Don't forget tire pressure and fluid levels.

and valve clearances

[subxero]

Originally Posted by kdogg2077

Yes I did consider the possibility someone was trying to steal the tire and ran. It just seems unlikely. It was a clear Saturday afternoon with people everywhere. Not a great time for theft. I don't live in a high crime area.

Seriously?

My car got stolen literally from directly in front of where you live.

[kdogg2077]

Originally Posted by subxero

Seriously?

My car got stolen literally from directly in front of where you live.

I haven't forgotten I just don't consider that typical for Ebensburg. And really, Ninja 250 tire thieves? Who just happened to strike right after I got my tires changed? And tried to steal my bike on a Saturday afternoon in broad daylight?

I think it's more likely the dealer messed up.

[flitecontrol]

Glad you found that before something catastrophic happened!

Get a service manual and some basic tools if you don't have them, and do as much maintenance/repair to your bike as you can. Motofool is right on about mechanics, especially dealership mechanics. They tend to hire folks right out of school with little experience, and expect them to make repairs as quickly as possible to maximize the dealership's profits.

There are just too many stories such as yours to even consider having someone else work on my bike. If you do it, you'll know it was done right!

[subxero]

Originally Posted by kdogg2077

I haven't forgotten I just don't consider that typical for Ebensburg. And really, Ninja 250 tire thieves? Who just happened to strike right after I got my tires changed? And tried to steal my bike on a Saturday afternoon in broad daylight?

I think it's more likely the dealer messed up.

hmm IDK, someone else who has a ninja 250 that doesn't live to far away, who knows where you live and that you got a new tire... and i would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those dang kids

[kdogg2077]

Originally Posted by subxero

hmm IDK, someone else who has a ninja 250 that doesn't live to far away, who knows where you live and that you got a new tire... and i would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those dang kids

No wonder you didn't answer when I called!

[kdogg2077]

Originally Posted by flitecontrol

Glad you found that before something catastrophic happened!

Get a service manual and some basic tools if you don't have them, and do as much maintenance/repair to your bike as you can. Motofool is right on about mechanics, especially dealership mechanics. They tend to hire folks right out of school with little experience, and expect them to make repairs as quickly as possible to maximize the dealership's profits.

There are just too many stories such as yours to even consider having someone else work on my bike. If you do it, you'll know it was done right!

I was thinking of doing some motorcycle maintenance reading.

Anyone read either of these?

The Essential Guide to Motorcycle Maintenance: Tips & Techniques to Keep Your Motorcycle in Top Condition

Kawasaki Ninja 250R 1988-2012 (Clymer Manuals: Motorcycle Repair)

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Ninjinsky

That should have a split pin and they don't break so I suspect it wasn't there in the first place.
Also inadequately torqued it should be in the region of 80- 100ft lbs Unfortunately while the nut is a fairly stock item you seem to have lost the plate as well which will mean a delay waiting for the part.

HOWEVER there is another possibility and that is that someone was trying to steal your nice new rear tire and got disturbed. Check around the area for the nut and plate

Most people replace the cotter pin with a hitch pin but cotter pins absolutely do break. You have to bend them to install them and they don't tolerate being bent repeatedly without breaking. Kawasaki says to use a new one EVERY TIME you adjust the axle bolt, which is why people usually just replace it eith a reusable hitch pin. They probably didn't torque it down well enough causing it to loosen and the cotter pin either fell out or was wrenched into pieces. I would also check my bearings since the tire should not be rotating the axle.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by kdogg2077

I was thinking of doing some motorcycle maintenance reading.

Anyone read either of these?

The Essential Guide to Motorcycle Maintenance: Tips & Techniques to Keep Your Motorcycle in Top Condition

Kawasaki Ninja 250R 1988-2012 (Clymer Manuals: Motorcycle Repair)

I own the Clymer manual but it's not exactly "reading material."

[flitecontrol]

I like to compare a good service manual to a cookbook. It gives the reader step-by-step instructions on what to do, and includes pictures. If you are a mechanical noob, the folks here can help you if you have questions, or if you have a friend with mechanical abilities, they should be able to assist. Just get one specific to your model Ninja. It will usually pay for itself with your first maintenance or repair job.

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by CZroe

....Kawasaki says to use a new one EVERY TIME you adjust the axle bolt, which is why people usually just replace it with a reusable hitch pin. They probably didn't torque it down well enough causing it to loosen and the cotter pin either fell out or was wrenched into pieces.

Kawasaki also recommends installing the axle in reverse. https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...92&postcount=4

Makes me wonder now if there is a real purpose for this other than ease of installation. Maybe torque from the chain can force or twist the axle out.

[BoBO]

That was close, good thing you caught it in time.

[Ninjinsky]

Originally Posted by CZroe

Most people replace the cotter pin with a hitch pin but cotter pins absolutely do break. You have to bend them to install them and they don't tolerate being bent repeatedly without breaking. Kawasaki says to use a new one EVERY TIME you adjust the axle bolt, which is why people usually just replace it eith a reusable hitch pin. They probably didn't torque it down well enough causing it to loosen and the cotter pin either fell out or was wrenched into pieces. I would also check my bearings since the tire should not be rotating the axle.

I don't know a single motorcycle workshop worth the name that re uses old cotter pins! And I have never seen a new one break. So please dont say they "absolutely do break", no they dont! They do not "fall out" because that is physically impossible nor do they get "wrenched to pieces" you would have to put a long spanner on the nut to do that and push hard on it to shear the pin with the castelations. A loose axle nut simply has no torque coming from anywhere to do that.


They are stone reliable used properly.
Of course if you keep bending and rebending an old one it will fatigue but what kind of idiot does that for a 10cent pin?
Personally I would prefer Split pins to R clips
http://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums...r-clevis-pins/

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

Kawasaki also recommends installing the axle in reverse..........

That proves the theory of the afternoon thief.

A dealer's mechanic would never install that axle backwards

Originally Posted by kdogg2077

........The Essential Guide to Motorcycle Maintenance: Tips & Techniques to Keep Your Motorcycle in Top Condition

That book is good; I found one in my public library.

There are specifics for your bike, like torque values, specific parts, clearances, etc. that you can only find in the Kawasaki 250 repair manual and in this and other websites.

There is a series of service works that you can do periodically with basic tools.
It may be intimidating at first, but all doable with some practice and guidance.

To check the torque of all nuts and bolts is one of those, because vibration tends to loosen some with time.

You can find cheap but acceptable basic tools in Harbor Freight or Sears or Home Depot or Lowe's.

A torque wrench is important to have, so the proper torque is applied.
The threads of bolts and nuts stay tighten because the torque induces such a friction force between the threads that makes any back rotation impossible.
In your case the missing cotter pin is more like a secondary safety device.
A rear axle that is properly torqued down never backs up on its own.

As others have mentioned, your mechanic forgot the cotter pin, the proper direction of installation of the axle and the proper torque: an inexperienced young mechanic probably.

Let them know what happened; if they are responsible people and learn from this, the life of a less lucky rider could be saved.

[kdogg2077]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

Kawasaki also recommends installing the axle in reverse. https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...92&postcount=4

Makes me wonder now if there is a real purpose for this other than ease of installation. Maybe torque from the chain can force or twist the axle out.

Hmm..so Kawa recommend reversing how the axle bolt is stock and doing it in reverses whenever you put on new tires?

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by kdogg2077

Hmm..so Kawa recommend reversing how the axle bolt is stock and doing it in reverses whenever you put on new tires?

That's what the service manual states in the notes. https://www.ninjette.org/forums/atta...7&d=1318270244

[Rifleman]

the nut should be castellated and just to make it look more race, I replace the cotter pin with one of these. last forever and I can get a handful of them from Farm & Fleet for about 5 bux.. I have them in a drawer and just give them to people who come by if they are working on their bike. That cotter pin can get work hardened, fall out and the nut can back off.

this "love you long time sailor"

[dfox]

Originally Posted by flitecontrol

There are just too many stories such as yours to even consider having someone else work on my bike. If you do it, you'll know it was done right!

or at least you can only blame yourself if you screw it up...

just recently I forgot to fully torque bolts holding on the brake calipers on my car, and lost one of the bolts when it backed out, resulting in quite a dangerous situation.


everyone makes mistakes occasionally. I've been doing my own car/motorcycle maintenance, including major engine work, for 13 years now, and forgot such a simple task, almost resulting in major failure. It's expected that "professional mechanics" don't make mistakes, but again... it happens. I think the frequency of a "professional mechanic" making major mistakes is far less often than shade-tree mechanics making mistakes, but you hear about it more often because it's significantly more unacceptable.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Ninjinsky

I don't know a single motorcycle workshop worth the name that re uses old cotter pins! And I have never seen a new one break. So please dont say they "absolutely do break", no they dont!

I know of one. When I got my first service done and picked up my bike, I did my own checklist before riding off and saw that the chain was a little out of alignment. Because the manual said to do that too, I pointed it out to them. They came out to the curb with me and straightened it, which required removing the cotter pin. They did not bring a new one. When they re-used the old one, I objected saying "but the manual said you can't reuse a cotter pin..." to which they replied "sometimes you can, depending on the condition." Eventually, that pin snapped while doing the next chain adjustment myself but I had a pack of fresh pins ready to go.

Originally Posted by Ninjinsky

They do not "fall out" because that is physically impossible...

When they are reused and break, they certainly can fall out.

Originally Posted by Ninjinsky

...nor do they get "wrenched to pieces" you would have to put a long spanner on the nut to do that and push hard on it to shear the pin with the castelations. A loose axle nut simply has no torque coming from anywhere to do that.

That's why I told him to check his wheel bearings. The axle should not rotate with the wheel, but if it does...

Originally Posted by Ninjinsky

They are stone reliable used properly.
Of course if you keep bending and rebending an old one it will fatigue but what kind of idiot does that for a 10cent pin?

Exactly, but the suspicion is that the dealer tech may be just that kind of idiot.

[kdogg2077]

To close the loop on this one the dealership did the right thing and fixed everything. The rear bolt needed a new nut and bracket for the swingarm. They put new ones on. There is a cotter pin now. They also said something went wrong with the chain tensioner, so I assume it was replaced. I'll know by the sound of the bike when I fire it up tomorrow.