First 500 Miles on my Ninjette

[BlackNinja8]

Went for a nice long ride today. I really love the riding position on this bike...my focus during the ride was to see if I could do a better job riding to minimize the things that I've complained about.

I found that the bike feels a lot better when riding each of the lower gears into the higher rpm range so that I am not accelerating hard in the higher gears. This is probably how I will ride it from now on. Only problem is that I really feel like I'm racing off the line all the time when I really prefer to ride more smoothly. But I can deal and if I'm being honest it it fun sometimes.

I really took some time to warm my tires before trying more aggresive cornering. After about 20 miles I found a quiet curvy road that I'm familiar with and with full gear and open road I really pushed the bounderies of my comfort in some corners. I've seen the training videos and read the books so I practiced the techniques and actually made myself proud navigating some tight corners really well. The stock tires held up well and I felt no skiddishness. I can only assume that my previous experiences were due to cold tires as both occured within the first few miles of my rides with temps in the 50s.

Unfortunately I'm still not in love with the highway feel. I don't mind the wind on me, just don't like the feeling that I'm being pushed all over my lane.

I'm gonna put another couple thousand miles on my ninjette then re-evaluate whether I want to go bigger at that time.

[ajcadoo]

Upgrading past a 250 will drop those MPGs!!!! Just a thought as well.

[BlackNinja8]

Originally Posted by ajcadoo

Upgrading past a 250 will drop those MPGs!!!! Just a thought as well.

Perhaps not, and if so maybe not enough of a difference to really be a deal breaker. @Jiggles I believe has said he is getting similar mpg from his 650. Either way with 2 washer, and the way I ride I'm not getting all that impressive fuel economy anyway. Somewhere are 45mpg. I didn't get in to this for the fuel savings anyway but thanks for the thought.

[Malicious Logic]

Originally Posted by BlackNinja8

Perhaps not, and if so maybe not enough of a difference to really be a deal breaker. @Jiggles I believe has said he is getting similar mpg from his 650. Either way with 2 washer, and the way I ride I'm not getting all that impressive fuel economy anyway. Somewhere are 45mpg. I didn't get in to this for the fuel savings anyway but thanks for the thought.

45 mpg from your ninjette? ouch.

[etiainen]

You have to employ some level of gas saving techniques to get decent MPGs. I didn't wring its neck out, but with mixed semi-conservating riding, and the occasional opening up of the throttle I got 50-60MPGs on my old Ninjette. If I rode like I stole it mid-40s was commonplace.

[flynjay]

Install the 15T sprocket, I think you will like the overall feel.

[Ninja1]

Originally Posted by BlackNinja8

If only they made the exact bike in a 400 or 500 it would be perfect.

Not sure why they're not available in the US but here in Canada we have a Ninja 400R model which from my understanding is a 650 with reduced bore and stroke (and other things I'm sure) but it looks almost the same chassis as the 650. The instrument panel is also slightly different.


http://www.kawasaki.ca/model/SUPERSPORT/1443/Ninja-400R

I was debating between it and the 250 and ended up getting the 250.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Ninja1

Not sure why they're not available in the US but here in Canada we have a Ninja 400R model which from my understanding is a 650 with reduced bore and stroke (and other things I'm sure) but it looks almost the same chassis as the 650. The instrument panel is also slightly different.


http://www.kawasaki.ca/model/SUPERSPORT/1443/Ninja-400R

I was debating between it and the 250 and ended up getting the 250.

The reason: That only exists due to licensing restrictions in one Canadian province. It cost the exact same amount to product but necessarily sells for less, so they don't want to offer it in markets where it will hurt profits. The only reason it helps profits there is because people want to start on a larger bike than a 250 but they didn't have anything, so it makes sales that wouldn't be made otherwise. Those same customers would get a 650R here.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by BlackNinja8

Went for a nice long ride today. I really love the riding position on this bike...my focus during the ride was to see if I could do a better job riding to minimize the things that I've complained about.

...........

Unfortunately I'm still not in love with the highway feel. I don't mind the wind on me, just don't like the feeling that I'm being pushed all over my lane.

I'm gonna put another couple thousand miles on my ninjette then re-evaluate whether I want to go bigger at that time.

Glad that you are trying to give the 250 a second chance.

The engine is happier and stronger at higher rpm's; however, for your type of riding, you don't need to rev it up hard during your up-shifting.

The range above 6K has enough power to accelerate the bike at a moderate pace without much vibration and noise.

Once in 6th, a 15T sprocket and ear plugs help greatly, as well as a properly lubricated chain.

I ride mainly on highways at indicated 80 mph, sometimes in crosswinds of 20~30 mph (Florida along the Atlantic shore), and can tell you that there is no enough force to push you around.

Only once, over a bridge, a strong gust made the tires skid 1"~2" sideways; but the bike immediately resumed stable rolling by itself.

It is your reaction to gusts over the steering bar what creates that instability feeling.

Next time, grab the tank with your knees and the frame with your boots, tuck your torso some (which will make you bend your elbows and release pressure from the bar) and grab the bar like you would grab a toothpaste tube,...........and let the wind blow while you enjoy the ride.

If your tires are cold, the fastest way to warm them up is by strong acceleration and braking in straight line.

The pressure trick of my previous post could help the top performance of your tires and suspension for your riding conditions and style (manufacturer's recommendation is just a general rule of thumb).

Hope you decide to keep your Ninjette for many more miles.

[Jiggles]

I get 40mpg on my 250 cuz I ride like a total asshole. I get 42mpg on my 650

[ajcadoo]

Originally Posted by BlackNinja8

Perhaps not, and if so maybe not enough of a difference to really be a deal breaker. @Jiggles I believe has said he is getting similar mpg from his 650. Either way with 2 washer, and the way I ride I'm not getting all that impressive fuel economy anyway. Somewhere are 45mpg. I didn't get in to this for the fuel savings anyway but thanks for the thought.

250 = 61MPG
650 = 49MPG

I consider that to be a hefty drop

[ajcadoo]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

I get 40mpg on my 250 cuz I ride like a total asshole. I get 42mpg on my 650

That explains it!

[BlackNinja8]

Originally Posted by ajcadoo

250 = 61MPG
650 = 49MPG

I consider that to be a hefty drop

That would be a hefty drop...IF I got 61mpg. If the 650 mpg figure you gave is acurate I would actually see an increase in fuel economy.

[BlackNinja8]

Originally Posted by ajcadoo

250 = 61MPG
650 = 49MPG

I consider that to be a hefty drop

Plus when you think about it, the difference between the two for a 5000 mile/yr driver is somewhere around $80 per year or $6 per month. Not a hefty price to pay.

[ajcadoo]

Well if you dont get 61MPG on your 250, then I can bet you wont get 49MPG on your 650. You have to ride somewhat nice to get those figures. You cant be hauling ass at every green light.

[BlackNinja8]

Originally Posted by ajcadoo

Well if you dont get 61MPG on your 250, then I can bet you wont get 49MPG on your 650. You have to ride somewhat nice to get those figures. You cant be hauling ass at every green light.

lol good point. TBH I don't really care about the gas mileage. To me, altering your riding style to get 5 or 10 extra mpg is mental masturbation. You don't really save that much cash.

[Malicious Logic]

Originally Posted by BlackNinja8

lol good point. TBH I don't really care about the gas mileage. To me, altering your riding style to get 5 or 10 extra mpg is mental masturbation. You don't really save that much cash.

Maybe not 5 but 10 seems like a pretty big deal to me...*shrugs* Gas prices might hurt us more than they hurt you though.

[etiainen]

Poor college student. Every cent saved is worth it

Ninjette 50-55MPG
CBR250 60-72MPG

I like that increase.

[BlackNinja8]

Originally Posted by etiainen

Poor college student. Every cent saved is worth it

Ninjette 50-55MPG
CBR250 60-72MPG

I like that increase.

Makes perfect sense...Sorry didn't mean to be an ass. I guess I'm just used to driving my SUV 60 miles a day and spending $85 to fill my tank more than once a week. When I fill up my bike with $15 I don't ask questions

[etiainen]

It's fine. To me I prefer getting better MPGs just because I take my bike everywhere and it adds up over time. I don't have a full time job though:/

I also just like saying I get 70MPGs when people complain about gas prices

[BlackNinja8]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

The pregen 650s are ugly though, I'd never buy one haha

The 650 definitely feels less sporty than the 250. When I get back on my 250 I feel more hunched over, compact, and lower to the ground, excellent feeling for the twisties

I don't notice too much difference between the 650R and 650. I'm sure having a new model you notice all the changes though. I will say that having seen the digital instrument cluster it would be difficult to get one of the older analog ones.

[ajcadoo]

Yup the only reason I bought my 250 was for the gas savings. I am a poor poor college student myself

[BlackNinja8]

15T installed today WOW what a difference. Contrary to what others have said on here, my bike now pulls harder in every gear. 1st is slightly better, but 2nd and 3rd feel the way I always thought they should - good mid range acceleration. 4th has become an even better all-purpose gear. Love it!

I didn't realize that I would be effectively shortening my wheelbase by going to a larger counter sprocket but I guess it makes sense. Now to figure out how to adjust my chain and align the rear tire. I was hoping not to have to move the rear wheel but couldn't get the chain back on otherwise. Oh well, well worth the change.

[flynjay]

Originally Posted by BlackNinja8

15T installed today WOW what a difference. Contrary to what others have said on here, my bike now pulls harder in every gear. 1st is slightly better, but 2nd and 3rd feel the way I always thought they should - good mid range acceleration. 4th has become an even better all-purpose gear. Love it!

I didn't realize that I would be effectively shortening my wheelbase by going to a larger counter sprocket but I guess it makes sense. Now to figure out how to adjust my chain and align the rear tire. I was hoping not to have to move the rear wheel but couldn't get the chain back on otherwise. Oh well, well worth the change.

Be sure to adjust you chain slack.

[BlackNinja8]

Originally Posted by flynjay

Be sure to adjust you chain slack.

Looking through the DIY threads now. Is it a bad thing that I shortened the wheel base by going bigger up front? Do I need to counter with a smaller rear? I'm a little worried now that I've begun tinkering.

[flynjay]

Originally Posted by BlackNinja8

Looking through the DIY threads now. Is it a bad thing that I shortened the wheel base by going bigger up front? Do I need to counter with a smaller rear? I'm a little worried now that I've begun tinkering.

No. The 15T is well within the adjustment range for the rear tire. Going smaller on the rear will make the gearing even taller.

[BlackNinja8]

Originally Posted by flynjay

No. The 15T is well within the adjustment range for the rear tire. Going smaller on the rear will make the gearing even taller.

When you say adjustment range you are talking about the adjustment guides on the swingarm? I was really hoping those would be accurate. No such luck.

[Gregg_VA]

It appears to me that you are trying to talk yourself and us into approving of you to upgrade to a bigger ride. Personally, I think that is a bad idea because I still don't get a sense of why you want something bigger. Riding a 250 on the Interstate is no problem. Yeah you do get tossed around, you will on every bike and I have a fair understanding of this. Look at my sig line. A 250 isn't my only bike. Someone ask me today, of the 4 in my garage which one did I like the best. I said I couldn't answer that question directly since all my current bikes address a different area of riding and riding style; however, the 250 is the most fun bike to ride. I, like you, had pretty immediate thoughts of upgrading the Ninjette to a 650 but thought better of it. If can't ride a 250, have fun, and appreciate the bike, then I don't need to be riding.

I will address your dislikes next but I want you to know where I am coming from. I am not a small person (6'1" and over 250 lbs) nor am I a young person (52). Last November I rode an Iron Butt SaddleSore (1,030+ miles in under 19 hours) all in the State of Virginia. Almost all of that ride was on Interstate, in particular on I-81 in addition to I-95 and I-64. It was freaking, freezing cold on top of that. I got no wind protection on the Ninjette. I worked through it. Now, I am not saying that this kind of riding is for everyone - in fact it is for a very small percentage of riders. However, until you are seriously able to put in some big miles under extreme conditions, how are you going to know for sure that you are being under-served by a 250? Just my $0.02

Now your dislikes:
1. Buzzing at cruising speeds 45-55mph
I have/had the same problem. Riser blocks and Grip Puppies cut down on a lot of that vibration. I know feel way more vibration in the soles of my feet then I do in my hands. A Corbin Rider Saddle was also a much needed addition.

2. Useless 1st gear
I thought the same thing so I changed both front and rear sprockets. I went up one tooth in the front and down a tooth in the rear. 1st now is much taller and I dropped a 1,000 RPMs when cruising.

3. Highway winds at 80mph
Ride a Goldwing passing a tractor trailer with a side wind. You don't know what highway winds are like riding a 950+ lb sail. You want scary? Try to control a Wing when it is being thrown around in side wind so hard the front cowl feels like it is going to shake off. Been through those kinds of winds in Colorado.

4. Looks a like a little bike to me.
Ok, again, not a small guy here. Think of a pig humping a football and you get the visual. If I can ride it, so can you.

5. Generally High RPMs
Ummm... yeah, it's a sports bike. They are supposed to turn high RPMs. Power band is no less then 5,000 RPM. You let it drop below that and acceleration is kinda sluggish. At 80 with the sprockets changed out my RPMs are usually around 9K, maybe a bit over that.

6. Skiddish rear tire
I have chased big bikes through the woods and country roads and never had the bar tire slip a bit and I am still on the stock tires. Of course, my big butt may be planting the rear of my bike down more then yours...

Just my thoughts. Not telling you one way or the other what to do.

Gregg

[BlackNinja8]

Thanks for the advice you make a lot of good points and I can definitely appreciate where you are coming from. I'm not trying to seek approval to change bikes. I have intended all along to get another bike. It's just a matter of when. I can appreciate this bike for a lot of things. I love it. But I think a larger displacement bike that shares my ninjettes strong points would make me happier. Its a good all-rounder but but no means can any bike satisfy all our cycling needs. You know this as good as anyone. I think I will enjoy a bike with more low end grunt and less high revving. Of course I will miss the ease and flickability of this bike. I tend to be a very impulsive person anyways so I'm sure I will have dozens of bikes during my riding career. Much as I like this bike there will surely be others that I like more...I hope.

I think we get too defensive on this forum about people changing bikes. Its not a suggestion that there is anything wrong with the 250. Its all subjective. Somewhere on the net there are people telling others you don't need anything larger than a 125 or someone else saying there's no point to anything less than a 600cc SS. Some have made the suggestion that "if the ninja 250 isn't enough for you then you shouldn't be on any bike" or "don't know how to ride." To me that's nonsense. No one denys the performance of a ferrari, but you can't tell another rider that they wouldn't be happier with a '68 Camaro, or a 2012 Mini.

I went with a 15T this weekend and it is much better. I'm enjoying the change so far. There's been very minimal loss on the low end which is really only noticeable when starting on an incline.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by BlackNinja8

I think we get too defensive on this forum about people changing bikes. Its not a suggestion that there is anything wrong with the 250. Its all subjective.

There's some truth to this, but there's more to it as well. It's not only about talking up the 250, it's about trying to help new riders understand (in as supportive a way as feasible) that they just don't have enough experience yet to make accurate assessments of a bike's capabilities, or even understand the issues they are having while learning to ride. A new rider who is just getting into this is not always able to separate what they are experiencing on the Ninja 250, from what they'd experience on motorcycles in general. I.E. feeling what the wind does to a bike at freeway speeds. Feeling what happens when the brakes are applied in different proportions at different speeds. What is typical for vibration/noise on bikes in general or on specific bikes. The problem is, there's no shortcut to gaining that knowledge. It takes time and miles. A new rider who believes they've accurately identified the issues they are experiencing in a particularly short time (whether time or miles), with a prescription for a different bike, may be shortchanging themselves with even that next purchase.

Very few motorcyclists hop on their first bike and ride it for the rest of their lives. Nobody is advocating that that would be even a goal of most. But - riders deciding that they've gotten everything they can learn about what bike they really need with less than a few thousand miles, well, they haven't.

[Gregg_VA]

I hope nobody thought I was being defensive about changing bikes. I was not, nor am I someone to even make that judgement. I started riding full time in June 2006 and since then I am up to my sixth motorcycle, four of which are in the garage. First bike (VTX-1300) sold when I decided I didn't want to be a "cruiser". Second bike (1984 Magna V-65) unfortunately was totalled. Really miss that bike....

[BlackNinja8]

Originally Posted by Alex

There's some truth to this, but there's more to it as well. It's not only about talking up the 250, it's about trying to help new riders understand (in as supportive a way as feasible) that they just don't have enough experience yet to make accurate assessments of a bike's capabilities, or even understand the issues they are having while learning to ride. A new rider who is just getting into this is not always able to separate what they are experiencing on the Ninja 250, from what they'd experience on motorcycles in general. I.E. feeling what the wind does to a bike at freeway speeds. Feeling what happens when the brakes are applied in different proportions at different speeds. What is typical for vibration/noise on bikes in general or on specific bikes. The problem is, there's no shortcut to gaining that knowledge. It takes time and miles. A new rider who believes they've accurately identified the issues they are experiencing in a particularly short time (whether time or miles), with a prescription for a different bike, may be shortchanging themselves with even that next purchase.

Very few motorcyclists hop on their first bike and ride it for the rest of their lives. Nobody is advocating that that would be even a goal of most. But - riders deciding that they've gotten everything they can learn about what bike they really need with less than a few thousand miles, well, they haven't.

Agree 100%, no argument that I fall into that category. I am in the process of gaining saddle time. I figure the next 5-7k miles of riding which I will probably do this year are all about gaining saddle time and learning to ride and properly maintain my bike. The 250 is great for that and I've said I only wish they made this bike in the 500cc displacement (not the current 500) I think that would be perfect. However, this is a little engine and I just don't love the high revving feel. Don't love maxing out the lower gears to keep up with traffic. I just wish I had a little more low end torque AND smoother freeway cruising.

Don't mean to give the impression that I've got it all figured out and I'm ready for the next challenge. That is not at all how I feel. This bike is still kicking my butt on the road and it took me 7hrs yesterday to change my oil and replace the counter sprocket.

But I do think that 250 owners have a built in defensiveness from constantly having their choice for a bike being questioned. In 2 months I've heard it at least half a dozen times. Looking at it objectively, this bike is a lifer for some and a learner for others. Using it as a learner does not mean you have to max out the potential of the bike, or learn everything you need to learn before moving on. After all isn't this a lifetime learning thing?

[BlackNinja8]

Originally Posted by Gregg_VA

I hope nobody thought I was being defensive about changing bikes. I was not, nor am I someone to even make that judgement. I started riding full time in June 2006 and since then I am up to my sixth motorcycle, four of which are in the garage. First bike (VTX-1300) sold when I decided I didn't want to be a "cruiser". Second bike (1984 Magna V-65) unfortunately was totalled. Really miss that bike....

No I didn't think you were being defensive. I thought you comments were really objective and were much appreciated. I'm just being general (and perhaps overly dramatic) about comments I have heard.

[Gregg_VA]

Originally Posted by BlackNinja8

No I didn't think you were being defensive. I thought you comments were really objective and were much appreciated. I'm just being general (and perhaps overly dramatic) about comments I have heard.

Gothcha

[Alex]

Originally Posted by BlackNinja8

Using it as a learner does not mean you have to max out the potential of the bike, or learn everything you need to learn before moving on. After all isn't this a lifetime learning thing?

Yes. The only part that I start objecting to is when people say things like they have maxxed out everything they can learn from the bike after a short time. Or they need a larger/faster bike because they've become bored with the capabilities of the current bike (i.e. it's too slow). I'm not paraphrasing you from this thread, don't worry, these are just common statements that lead to the types of responses you've described.

The object lesson to avoid would be something like this, shown right here on our site:

1 - Buyer gets new 250 in October. Has < 800 miles on it in December
2 - Buyer says I'm good! Let's buy a literbike later that same month.
3 - Buyer waits until second week of January before totalling it, due to what sounds like poor throttle control.

[BlackNinja8]

Originally Posted by Alex

Yes. The only part that I start objecting to is when people say things like they have maxxed out everything they can learn from the bike after a short time. Or they need a larger/faster bike because they've become bored with the capabilities of the current bike (i.e. it's too slow).

I was going to say the exact same thing but wanted to keep my post short. I got laughed off during my MSF for having a 250 by a guy with a Gixer600 and a guy with a zx-14. Both said I would be bored within a month. Funny that the zx had already been down and the gsx hadn't left the driveway because the owner was afraid of it. Meanwhile I had been riding my ninjette for a month already because I felt comfortable enough to begin practicing.

[BlackNinja8]

Originally Posted by Alex

Yes. The only part that I start objecting to is when people say things like they have maxxed out everything they can learn from the bike after a short time. Or they need a larger/faster bike because they've become bored with the capabilities of the current bike (i.e. it's too slow). I'm not paraphrasing you from this thread, don't worry, these are just common statements that lead to the types of responses you've described.

The object lesson to avoid would be something like this, shown right here on our site:

1 - Buyer gets new 250 in October. Has < 800 miles on it in December
2 - Buyer says I'm good! Let's buy a literbike in December.
3 - Buyer waits until second week of January before totalling it, due to what sounds like poor throttle control.

...and surely there are many more examples I'm sure. I get that I will make many mistakes and the more mistakes made on the 250 the better off I will be compared to just about any other bike.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by BlackNinja8

But I do think that 250 owners have a built in defensiveness from constantly having their choice for a bike being questioned. In 2 months I've heard it at least half a dozen times. Looking at it objectively, this bike is a lifer for some and a learner for others. Using it as a learner does not mean you have to max out the potential of the bike, or learn everything you need to learn before moving on. After all isn't this a lifetime learning thing?

To give you an example, when I started a thread on upgrading to a larger bike, not one person suggested that I stay with the 250. Why? Because I had the bike for 8 months (and been on this forum for 8 mo.) and had gone 12,000 miles. I was no longer new. I'd gained the experience necessary to handle a larger bike without much difficulty. It didn't take me long to get adjusted to the 650. But if I had upgraded last year I would have had a lot more problems with this bike. Certain things are just easier to learn on the 250, i.e. leaning, braking, shifting, etc.

Every 1000 miles I complete, I feel more confident and become a better rider. I recently hit another milestone this month. I realized it when an SUV tried to merge into me on the highway. I saw her moving over so I calmly applied the brakes and moved behind her. What surprised me was that during this "OH ****" moment, I didn't get the adrenaline rush super monkey tunnel vision that I get during a typical "I'M GOING TO DIE" moment. If this had happened just a few months ago, my heart would have raced and I would have made an impulse decision either to lay on the throttle and possibly get clipped or hit the brakes to hard and lock up the tires. The reaction wasn't something I could control, it just happened as a result of my experience on a motorcycle. I'm telling you this story to show you that even after all the miles I've completed, I'm still learning new things, still developing, still becoming better and the initial skillset that you learn on a motorcycle is just easier on a 250.

When you are really ready to upgrade to a larger bike, you will just feel it. You will know that you are a better rider than you were at 3000mi, 6000mi, 10,000mi. You will know that you are capable of being safe with more power and others will know it too. If in a year you start a new thread about upgrading your bike, no one will tell you to stay on the 250, instead they will give you suggestions so that you can choose the best bike for what you want to do.

And I don't believe that people on this forum are defensive about their decision to ride a 250. The people that say silly things about 250 either don't ride, are obsessed with how other perceive them, or are squids. Furthermore, they are ignorant of the capabilities of the 250 and when they make comments about our bikes, we don't get defensive, we laugh at them.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

To give you an example, when I started a thread on upgrading to a larger bike, not one person suggested that I stay with the 250.

I think what they actually suggested was that you give up the sport altogether, right?

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Alex

I think what they actually suggested was that you give up the sport altogether, right?

To be fair I am a menace to everyone on the streets when I ride