The whole ATGATT thing.........

[drac]

I just wanted to voice my personal feelings on the matter. I am not at all offended or anything of that nature when you guys go off on a squid rant because you saw someone riding in t-shirt, shorts and tennis shoes.

I actually find it a little amusing. You choose to participate in an activity that is inherently dangerous, yet you rag on someone because they are doing it a LITTLE more dangerously than you. Look, I ride in all types of gear at all different times. Always a helmet and gloves but those are the only constants. Generally it's helmet, gloves, jeans, jacket(leather or textile) and tennis shoes. 30 years on the street and I have never worn riding boots or pants. It is not uncommon that on a 98 degree August day I will take a cruise or beer run in t-shirt/shorts. If I am going out for an aggressive run through some fun back roads it is jeans/jacket time always.

I am not suggesting that riding gear is bad because I agree the more gear, the less chance of injury. Which brings me to my main point.....Injury.

I am riding a 400lb bike alongside 4,000lb cars and 60,000lb+ trucks. I am traveling at 60/65mph literally just feet away from someone going in the opposite direction going the same speed. With nothing between us but trust that he stays on his side of the road. The least of my concerns is whether I break an ankle or get roadrash on my back or butt or leg. I am concerned with getting decapitated or having massive unsurvivable internal injuries or traumatic amputation of an appendage. None of these can be mitigated with gear............any gear.

So the next time you see someone just cruising in t-shirt/shorts don't shake your head with a better-than-thou attitude. Give him a little wave and hope you BOTH make it home safely.

Be safe, Be smart, Have fun.

[massacremasses]

problem.

most bike accidents are single vehicle accidents. Gear can save their life and saves their skin.

But meh, who needs skin anyways.

[etiainen]

I'm pretty sure that most crashes happen at lower speeds.

At those speeds gear can make a pretty large difference when it comes to injury.

[alex.s]

i think what it is is that... its someone who is not taking adequate precautions for something they can plan for. its like the safety wire deal. no, your bike isnt going to fall apart without safety wire, but if you are going to do something that is inherently risky, why not take every precaution and safety procedure you can? why not take an extra 5 seconds now instead of blowing hours later? why not spend a little more effort now, for a lot less effort later?

you dont see racers without gear, and they are doing something far riskier than putting around. in fact you dont see racers doing anything that isnt as safe and predictable as possible. they take every precaution. they think ahead of time because, while the sport is a **** ton of fun, they realize its dangerous. so instead of the thought process of "i might get injured, lets make sure i die if i do!" the thought process is "i might get injured, lets try to minimize it if i do"


so yes, gear isnt going to keep you from getting decapitated by a truck going a combined 90 on top of you. but to think that the only kind of accident you are going to encounter is a decapitation, i think, is pretty damn ignorant.

that being said, im all for people riding without gear if they feel like they want to. to keep that from happening would do nothing but delay evolution.

[drac]

but to think that the only kind of accident you are going to encounter is a decapitation, i think, is pretty damn ignorant.

I'm sorry...not sure where I said the only injury I would/could sustain from riding is decap., ect..... I said they were the only ones I was worried about.

Example....the most common way to break your ankle is to trip/fall. Do you wear boots every time you walk to avoid this possibility? I think not......but doesn't ATGATT mean All the Time?

Point being we all take calculated risks every day and to put down someone because they take a risk you wouldn't is asinine. You take a risk other people wouldn't.

[Alex]

/moved to riding gear area

I'm not terribly opposed to your thoughts. I also agree (as I feel most would) that gear, even the very best, isn't an insurance policy that prevents all injury. I think where I'd focus on is the statement that we all take calculated risks when we choose what to wear. I'm not sure they are really that calculated for a certain portion of the motorcycling community. A rider with many years and tens of thousands of safe miles under their belt deciding to change their gear depending on the particular ride? There's some calculation going on. A newer rider deciding that boots aren't important because they haven't suffered an ankle injury yet and don't expect any negative experiences while motorcycling, well, that's not a calculated risk. It's not grasping the risk.

For the term ATGATT, I think it has a pretty specific meaning. I (personally), wouldn't be bent out of shape with experienced riders making reasoned choices as you discussed. But they shouldn't be describing themselves as ATGATT riders then.

[Whiskey]

Bouncing & sliding down the road is not fun, I went down leaving the barracks after reservist training about 28 months ago. I was wearing a helmet, gloves & an army uniform. I had a coke can in my knee pocket & a lock & chain around my waist. (see the pics for the damage to the coke can which was where my right knee would have been)

I destroyed my shoulder, tore up my back muscles but the army gear was abrasion resistant enough to keep me from getting rashed up on the wet asphalt, the coke can took the bang that would have destroyed my knee & the lock kept my hip off the ground.

My shoulder now predicts rain better than any weatherman, it took me almost a year to stop being in pain daily, just a couple of times a week, and the best part of 2 to become rarer than that.

It also knocked me down a grade in my degree, which cost me a place as a PhD candidate in cancer research, and put me out of high level karate training (I have a couple of national, international & continental medals, but have not fought competitively since the off)

Originally Posted by drac

I'm sorry...not sure where I said the only injury I would/could sustain from riding is decap., ect..... I said they were the only ones I was worried about.

If that happens you're not going to be worrying for too long

[KawiKid860]

I ride in what I'm comfortable in.

I understand where you're coming from drac. I try to do ATGATT and I usually do, but sometimes you'll see me riding with shorts or shoes instead of pants/boots. It really doesn't work out with your plans to have to bring all of that extra stuff, and it is a calculated risk.

[Alex]

I liked this thread on the same topic from awhile back.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by drac

I'm sorry...not sure where I said the only injury I would/could sustain from riding is decap., ect..... I said they were the only ones I was worried about.

Example....the most common way to break your ankle is to trip/fall. Do you wear boots every time you walk to avoid this possibility? I think not......but doesn't ATGATT mean All the Time?

Point being we all take calculated risks every day and to put down someone because they take a risk you wouldn't is asinine. You take a risk other people wouldn't.

i think a better analogy would be baking. sure, if you are careful enough you can remove that pan from the oven without proper protection. but why would you bother risking it when you can simply put a glove on and avoid the inconvenience of a burn?

you say decap is the only kind of accident you are worried about... you arent worried about breaking your legs? you arent worried about breaking your spine and becoming paralyzed? what about TBI? you're cool with sitting in a coma for years while your family suffers?

i actually do walk around in motorcycle boots, but even if i didnt, to compare breaking an ankle by walking around to breaking an ankle crashing a motorcycle is ridiculous in my opinion. how fast are you going when walking? how fast are you going when crashing?

do you wear safety goggles when you use power tools? do you wear a condom when you have one night stands?

im not arguing against anyones right to not wear gear. like i said i think its great that we have the choice to protect ourselves or not. the point i'm trying to make is that i think people dont understand the purpose of gear. people think the purpose is to prevent injuries from a crash. wrong. the purpose is to MINIMIZE the mistakes you've already made. taking zero precaution to try to minimize the consequences of mistakes is reckless and irresponsible.



if you disagree with me, please tell me the flaw in this logic:
it is irresponsible to not take common precautions that are readily available to minimize consequences of a mistake. especially when the success rate of those precautions is higher than even a 25/75 shot at preventing injuries.

[outasight20]

I'm personally ATGATT, but I don't look down on people who choose to wear less gear. It's their choice. A motorcycle accident is something that happens once in a very rare while for any particular person. If that person accepts that they may get seriously injured when and if it does happen, then let them ride around in shorts and a t-shirt. They are only endangering themselves and that is their decision.

Yes, wearing ATGATT gets really annoying and uncomfortable at times, but I just don't feel as safe and confident riding my bike without it.

[dfox]

what you think is necessary to be worn is your opinion.

what other people think of what you wear is their opinion.

don't get butthurt when people express opinions on the internet.

Nobody wants to see a fellow rider injured, and thus, recommend wearing more gear rather than less gear, and a lot of those recommendations come from personal experiences.

Originally Posted by outasight20

I'm personally ATGATT, but I don't look down on people who choose to wear less gear. It's their choice. A motorcycle accident is something that happens once in a very rare while for any particular person. If that person accepts that they may get seriously injured when and if it does happen, then let them ride around in shorts and a t-shirt. They are only endangering themselves and that is their decision.

Yes, wearing ATGATT gets really annoying and uncomfortable at times, but I just don't feel as safe and confident riding my bike without it.

When I have say shorts and shoes on instead of my pants and boots, I ride so much slower because the thought of crashing scares me.

[xSean13]

Originally Posted by Whiskey

Bouncing & sliding down the road is not fun, I went down leaving the barracks after reservist training about 28 months ago. I was wearing a helmet, gloves & an army uniform. I had a coke can in my knee pocket & a lock & chain around my waist. (see the pics for the damage to the coke can which was where my right knee would have been)

I destroyed my shoulder, tore up my back muscles but the army gear was abrasion resistant enough to keep me from getting rashed up on the wet asphalt, the coke can took the bang that would have destroyed my knee & the lock kept my hip off the ground.

My shoulder now predicts rain better than any weatherman, it took me almost a year to stop being in pain daily, just a couple of times a week, and the best part of 2 to become rarer than that.

It also knocked me down a grade in my degree, which cost me a place as a PhD candidate in cancer research, and put me out of high level karate training (I have a couple of national, international & continental medals, but have not fought competitively since the off)



If that happens you're not going to be worrying for too long

So, would you recommend wearing coke cans as knee protectors?

[etiainen]

Originally Posted by alex.s

i think a better analogy would be baking. sure, if you are careful enough you can remove that pan from the oven without proper protection. but why would you bother risking it when you can simply put a glove on and avoid the inconvenience of a burn?

you say decap is the only kind of accident you are worried about... you arent worried about breaking your legs? you arent worried about breaking your spine and becoming paralyzed? what about TBI? you're cool with sitting in a coma for years while your family suffers?

i actually do walk around in motorcycle boots, but even if i didnt, to compare breaking an ankle by walking around to breaking an ankle crashing a motorcycle is ridiculous in my opinion. how fast are you going when walking? how fast are you going when crashing?

do you wear safety goggles when you use power tools? do you wear a condom when you have one night stands?

im not arguing against anyones right to not wear gear. like i said i think its great that we have the choice to protect ourselves or not. the point i'm trying to make is that i think people dont understand the purpose of gear. people think the purpose is to prevent injuries from a crash. wrong. the purpose is to MINIMIZE the mistakes you've already made. taking zero precaution to try to minimize the consequences of mistakes is reckless and irresponsible.



if you disagree with me, please tell me the flaw in this logic:
it is irresponsible to not take common precautions that are readily available to minimize consequences of a mistake. especially when the success rate of those precautions is higher than even a 25/75 shot at preventing injuries.

Effff baking mitts and condoms.

[Reswob]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

problem.

most bike accidents are single vehicle accidents. Gear can save their life and saves their skin.

But meh, who needs skin anyways.

I'm having trouble thinking of a situation where gear (other than your lid) will save your life. Prevent broken bones? Yes. Mitigate road rash? Sure. But actually save you from dying? Not likely.



Overall I agree with the OP, although I must admit I get a pretty good chuckle when I see someone who bothered to put on a jacket and gloves (and even hiking/work boots), but is still wearing shorts! (yes, I have seen this more than once!)

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by Reswob

I'm having trouble thinking of a situation where gear (other than your lid) will save your life. Prevent broken bones? Yes. Mitigate road rash? Sure. But actually save you from dying? Not likely.

A helmet is considered "gear"

[Reswob]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

A helmet is considered "gear"

In the context of this thread, your comment can only be understood to mean that you think "gear" that is worn in addition to a helmet will save your life.

[alex.s]

"i dont care about injuries, i only care about dying" <-- some injuries, like some you get from crashing withoout gear, you would rather die.

[Goom]

I think Alex has a pretty good grasp on the situation. If you know the risk you are taking and still take it, that's your prerogative.

I'm not going to say I don't push helmets, but I can't do more than plant a seed. Whether or not it actually takes root is entirely up to the individual. No point in

[alex.s]

He's making fun of you, @Jiggles.

[Captred]

Originally Posted by drac

So the next time you see someone just cruising in t-shirt/shorts don't shake your head with a better-than-thou attitude. Give him a little wave and hope you BOTH make it home safely.

I'm AGATT and I've never failed to acknowledge any rider (except mopeds).I think I get the jist of what you're trying to communicate, but I think the underlying issue for you is what you perceive as "better-than-thou". I've looked upon the lack of gear of many a rider and cringed, not due to any silly notion of superiority, but because I've had firsthand experience at the scene of an accident where gear could have prevented what was a rather stomach turning sight. Due to such experiences, I'll continue to advocate AGATT. To each his own, but why advocate anything else?

[DevinWolfe]

Originally Posted by alex.s

He's making fun of you, @Jiggles.

OOOOH SCHNAP!

Link to original page on YouTube.






I wear helmet, jacket, and gloves. Other than that I always wear jeans wether on the bike or not and I wear sturdy work boots and I am aware they have no torsion protection and could result in a broken ankle. I MAY look for a pair of real riding boots, but I commute and really don't want to carry regular shoes...

[ARc]

I stopped preaching ATGATT because I got tired of it. I just tell my friends that if they want to continue picking up girls on the weekends, they better be wearing their s*** unless they wanna look like two-face.

[rmorse]

Originally Posted by Reswob

I'm having trouble thinking of a situation where gear (other than your lid) will save your life. Prevent broken bones? Yes. Mitigate road rash? Sure. But actually save you from dying? Not likely.

Was this a serious comment? Because, taking out the whole brain injury/helmet point, what kills you is road rash. Broken bones heal. However, you have a MUCH better chance at dying from a crash that broke your leg and gave you road rash all over it vs a crash that just broke your leg.


Your body can only effectively focus on repairing one major thing at a time. Ever wonder why when you get in a bad crash, only one thing hurts? Your body is prioritizing. Road rash = infection. Infection = ANOTHER thing your body has to fight. Too many issues to fight = death.

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by Reswob

In the context of this thread, your comment can only be understood to mean that you think "gear" that is worn in addition to a helmet will save your life.

Of course you know what I meant, as you know me oh so well....

Wait...

[drac]

i think a better analogy would be baking. sure, if you are careful enough you can remove that pan from the oven without proper protection. but why would you bother risking it when you can simply put a glove on and avoid the inconvenience of a burn?

I routinely take crap out of oven w/o mitts. Again it is a calculated risk. Do I know the possible consequences of my actions......Of course, but knowing those consequences usually causes me to be to be extra cautious.....well extra quick actually, but you get the drift. Do I understand the risk is increased----> Yes. Am I willing to take the chance and accept the outcome-----> Yes.... It's personal choice. Look I am a strong proponent of always wearing a helmet but when I see someone w/o one I don't think to myself "He's a squid" or " He's an idiot".

As far as the condom thing....In the past I have had th.................ummmmmm Nevermind

[CalvinAmI]

Gear is great if you can afford it.
I only had $200 to buy my gear with so I got the armor I could afford. I have a black leather jacket so I wear that on top of the armor when aggressively riding for fun. When just crossing town to visit family, I pretty much just wear a helmet + gloves + shorts + shirt + sneakers. I am always on high alert when riding and ready for emergency maneuvers.

... Besides, I ride with my father and friend often. They have cruisers and only wear a helmet + jeans + work boots. Rarely gloves(if ever). I never see any of the cruiser guys/girls wearing much more "gear" than a helmet.

BUT, i am not just doing what they do to follow the trend/style. I ride in what I am comfortable in for the occasion. If I am riding with my cruisers I wear minimal gear to be comfortable at the low speeds. If I am on a twisty run, I get geared up a bit.

[massacremasses]

bottom line is do whatever you want.

but still when I saw a dude in a cut off shirt, shorts and moccasins today i thought, what a dummy. Everyone do what you want, but if you're not geared up I will question your intelligence...

[alex.s]

im still confused what the point of this thread is. re-reading your original post it sounds like you want a pity party for squids. complaining that people look at people who dont wear gear like they are stupid for not taking precautions. you complain that people sneer at you or something? great. you are making stupid decisions in their mind and they look down on you for it. you really want to change that? you are entitled to make your own bad decisions, but dont get mad at other people for not accepting your incorrect answer as fact. you are acting like a religious zealot trying to cram your religion down my throat and then getting mad when some people dont absolutely love everything you say. its like the retarded "war on religion" that fox news tries to push. its pretty damn stupid. everyone is entitled to their own beliefs but you getting mad at other people for "looking down" on your bad decisions is just as bad, if not worse, then someone telling you that you're an idiot for not wearing gear.

[drac]

Originally Posted by alex.s

im still confused what the point of this thread is. re-reading your original post it sounds like you want a pity party for squids. complaining that people look at people who dont wear gear like they are stupid for not taking precautions. you complain that people sneer at you or something? great. you are making stupid decisions in their mind and they look down on you for it. you really want to change that? you are entitled to make your own bad decisions, but dont get mad at other people for not accepting your incorrect answer as fact. you are acting like a religious zealot trying to cram your religion down my throat and then getting mad when some people dont absolutely love everything you say. its like the retarded "war on religion" that fox news tries to push. its pretty damn stupid. everyone is entitled to their own beliefs but you getting mad at other people for "looking down" on your bad decisions is just as bad, if not worse, then someone telling you that you're an idiot for not wearing gear.

Wow......I have no idea how to respond to that.

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by trixter

said mr skinny jeans

[LoD575]

Do I believe it's not the smartest to ride without gear....yes.
Do I get bent out of shape when others do not wear any kind of gear....no

I wear my gear.

I do not use the bike to commute so all the riding I do for pure enjoyment.

[Liist]

For my five-minute commute to school, I don't bother wearing all of my gear especially in the Florida summer. The speed limit is 30 and I don't ride like an asshole when I'm so exposed. Most of the day is spent walking around a very big campus.

I always have my helmet and gloves, and I'm wearing my new Alpinestars boots pretty frequently because they're so new and cool

[psych0hans]

The problem for me is, a city like Bombay with humidiy always in the high 90s, and summer temperatures in the 100s, wearing gear can be a bitch... Imagine going for a date on your bike and getting there drenched in your own sweat and smelling like s**t to boot... Don't expect it'll go down too well with your lady so it is situational... I personally recommend atgatt, but then I find myself riding less and less just so I don't have to ride without gear...

P.s. did I mention there is always traffic? Yeah, whether you get out at 2am or 2pm... Always expect to get stuck in traffic in Bombay... Lol

[Zombiphone]

Well, see, the thing is, I have people in this world who care about me. I'm not going to give up the things that I love and make me happy, but I wear all of my gear because I realize that what makes me happy has inherent risks. I actually take this sport seriously and I respect myself and those who don't want to see me get hurt.

But, I mean, if I was a worthless douchebag, I probably wouldn't care either

[MLecl0001]

I am a big personal freedom guy, and also a live and let live kind of person. If some one wants to sit around and smoke crack all day, by all means waste away your life.... As long as you do not infringe on other peoples rights. For example if your sitting around smoking crack all day ignoring your child while he/she goes unfed and is rolling around in its own ****. Then that's not cool.

If you want to ride and run the risk of road rash or smashing your brains in on a 15 mph fall that's your business. I believe that neither I or the government should have any say in that. Its your body do what you want with it as long as your not impeding on any one else.

I also don't believe in preaching to people. Educate people, tell them about it and then let them decide. Its like religion, believe what you want, hell tell people what you believe, but don't go imposing your beliefs on others, not cool.

[khaoz069]

uhh I am new to riding, am still buying my gear (didn't even consider buying gear other than a helmet at first) but after reading A LOT on this forum, I started to learn it's importance, so far I got the helmet, gloves, and mesh jacket as it is fairly hot in here although. It is a pain to carry the jacket around, such as at school.. but on the other hand I feel more comfortable driving with gear as I think that I am safer and I take turns with more confidence etc.. when I had just a shirt (before buying the jacket) I felt pretty naked driving around and knowing I'm not secure I used to get a bit scared of turns.

[Avenged7Fold]

Originally Posted by psych0hans

The problem for me is, a city like Bombay with humidiy always in the high 90s, and summer temperatures in the 100s, wearing gear can be a bitch... Imagine going for a date on your bike and getting there drenched in your own sweat and smelling like s**t to boot... Don't expect it'll go down too well with your lady so it is situational... I personally recommend atgatt, but then I find myself riding less and less just so I don't have to ride without gear...

P.s. did I mention there is always traffic? Yeah, whether you get out at 2am or 2pm... Always expect to get stuck in traffic in Bombay... Lol

I feel your pain. While I personally only have helmet and gloves (currently from lack of money), even with living in Phoenix Arizona where it gets 110 or higher in the summers, I still try and add on to my lack of gear with a pair of jeans, hitop shoes, and a long sleeve thermal shirt. I am aware that these three will do me little good in a wreck, it's more of the sense of effort and protection I give myself when I have them on. Let me tell you, wearing a thermal, something that is designed to keep you warm, when its 110F out is far from comfortable. I recently got some Nike Pro Combat long sleeves to wear instead of my thermals, and they keep me EXTREMELY COOL and they don't flap around in the wind like a tshirt, so I suggest these if you're wearing no jacket in the first place, but keep in mind that these paper thin shirts are going to do nothing in a crash.

Just thought I'd share my situation.