Push start EFI?

Jiggles · July 16th, 2012, 05:42 PM

The last time I rode my 650 I accidently left the lights on. I have no ****ing idea who would want their tail light to be on when the front wheel is locked and the key is not in the ignition, but kawasaki included that feature.

I turned the bike on and all the lights came on and everything and I hit the starter and it cycles a couple times then went dead. I realized it was probably because I left the lights on last week so I tried again this time in neutral so there would be no resistance. I couldn't get it to go so I decided to push start it.

The battery had enough juice to turn on the fuel pump so I knew there would be gas if I could just get enough momentum to cycle the engine. Couldn't do it in 2nd gear but 1st gear worked perfectly. So my question is if the battery was totally dead and could not power the fuel pump, would it even be possible to push start an EFI bike? My guess would be no unless you have a large enough hill that you could get the engine running high enough to power the fuel pump

alex.s · July 16th, 2012, 05:47 PM

well... pushing the bike to turn the engine turns the stator which does generate power. if you keep pushing it long enough and quick enough it should start eventually. though, your electrical stuff might be drawing too much power for the amount of charge generated by your weak pushing attempts. you could probably do it fine on a down hill

you should try it

Jiggles · July 16th, 2012, 05:54 PM

I'm wondering if it would generate enough power though, I only had a driveway to work with and a busted leg. I think I may have been SOL without the fuel pump working. Anyone with firsthand experience?

Motofool · July 16th, 2012, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiggles

........I only had a driveway to work with and a busted leg.......

You can jump-start a fuel injected bike, just can't push-start it successfully if the battery is completely depleted.
Remember that your headlight is always on.
Welcome to the efficient and safe 21st century!!

Find and use a charger for your battery and check its performance after having suffered a full discharge (the worst thing that can happen to a lead-acid battery).

Alex · July 16th, 2012, 08:43 PM

I've bumpstarted a fuel-injected bike before, so it's certainly possible. But it can't be a completely dead battery, just a weak one. Get a battery tender or similar charger; it will pay for itself in less batteries you need to replace over the years.

CZroe · July 17th, 2012, 05:33 AM

Can you reach around and unplug the headlight like you can on the 250?

FrugalNinja250 · July 17th, 2012, 10:32 AM

The ECM and the fuel injector need enough power to function in order to push-start a bike (or any FI vehicle, for that matter). With the bike in gear and the engine spinning fast enough, and assuming you have a permanent magnet alternator rather than one with field coils, it's possible to have enough power to push start, assuming the battery isn't sucking so much power from the alternator that it pulls the voltage down below the minimum for the ECM and injector.

alex.s · July 17th, 2012, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

assuming you have a permanent magnet alternator rather than one with field coils

can you go into more detail? i have a limited understanding of this subject...
ive heard people speak about car alternators requiring setup voltage to create the field before it will generate power... these are very different from a simple triphase shunt-controlled stator like in the 250 right? what is the hub made of on that type of field effect coil alternators? the coils are still fixed around a spinning hub right? maybe a trip to the wikipedia would help me

is it a powered coil spinning passed a set of coils? that would make sense. that way instead of shunt-control you could vary the power going to the setup coil to vary how much power is going through the main coils...

it seems like motorcycles would avoid that... do any use it?

lgk · July 17th, 2012, 01:10 PM

this made me think of getting one of those lithium batteries as a backup.
they are small enough that an extra one could fit where the airbox was.

July 16th, 2012, 05:42 PM	#1
Jiggles Jigglin' your Jiglets Name: Sean Location: San Jose, Ca Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 K1300S, 2013 Ninja 300, 2011 Ninja 250R, Faster than Unregistered's ninjette Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 1 MOTM - Apr '13	Push start EFI? The last time I rode my 650 I accidently left the lights on. I have no ****ing idea who would want their tail light to be on when the front wheel is locked and the key is not in the ignition, but kawasaki included that feature. I turned the bike on and all the lights came on and everything and I hit the starter and it cycles a couple times then went dead. I realized it was probably because I left the lights on last week so I tried again this time in neutral so there would be no resistance. I couldn't get it to go so I decided to push start it. The battery had enough juice to turn on the fuel pump so I knew there would be gas if I could just get enough momentum to cycle the engine. Couldn't do it in 2nd gear but 1st gear worked perfectly. So my question is if the battery was totally dead and could not power the fuel pump, would it even be possible to push start an EFI bike? My guess would be no unless you have a large enough hill that you could get the engine running high enough to power the fuel pump __________________________________________________ If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs

July 16th, 2012, 05:47 PM	#2
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	well... pushing the bike to turn the engine turns the stator which does generate power. if you keep pushing it long enough and quick enough it should start eventually. though, your electrical stuff might be drawing too much power for the amount of charge generated by your weak pushing attempts. you could probably do it fine on a down hill you should try it __________________________________________________

July 16th, 2012, 05:54 PM	#3
Jiggles Jigglin' your Jiglets Name: Sean Location: San Jose, Ca Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 K1300S, 2013 Ninja 300, 2011 Ninja 250R, Faster than Unregistered's ninjette Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 1 MOTM - Apr '13	I'm wondering if it would generate enough power though, I only had a driveway to work with and a busted leg. I think I may have been SOL without the fuel pump working. Anyone with firsthand experience? __________________________________________________ If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs

July 16th, 2012, 08:43 PM	#5
Alex ninjette.org dude Name: 1 guess :-) Location: SF Bay Area Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 7	I've bumpstarted a fuel-injected bike before, so it's certainly possible. But it can't be a completely dead battery, just a weak one. Get a battery tender or similar charger; it will pay for itself in less batteries you need to replace over the years. __________________________________________________ Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered)

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July 17th, 2012, 05:33 AM	#6
CZroe CPT Falcon Name: J.Emmett Turner Location: Newnan, GA Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 CP Blue EX250J, '97 unpainted EX250F, 2nd '97 unpainted EX250F (no engine), '07 black EX250F Posts: A lot.	Can you reach around and unplug the headlight like you can on the 250?

July 17th, 2012, 10:32 AM	#7
FrugalNinja250 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Frugal Location: Dallas/Fort Worth (DFW) Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): Several Posts: A lot.	The ECM and the fuel injector need enough power to function in order to push-start a bike (or any FI vehicle, for that matter). With the bike in gear and the engine spinning fast enough, and assuming you have a permanent magnet alternator rather than one with field coils, it's possible to have enough power to push start, assuming the battery isn't sucking so much power from the alternator that it pulls the voltage down below the minimum for the ECM and injector.

July 17th, 2012, 01:10 PM	#9
lgk ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Jason Location: Norfolk, VA Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2012 EX250, 2014 EX300 Posts: A lot.	this made me think of getting one of those lithium batteries as a backup. they are small enough that an extra one could fit where the airbox was.