Why the 2013 Ninja 250 sucks

[Carnage]

The creator of this thread is really saying, " im an insecure childish f**k tard that has to compensate for a little penis with a 1000cc bike, but like to talk smack to everyone else because I was picked on by everyone in middle school."

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Carnage

The creator of this thread is really saying, " im an insecure childish f**k tard that has to compensate for a little penis with a 1000cc bike, but like to talk smack to everyone else because I was picked on by everyone in middle school."

You clearly don't know @Jiggles at all.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Carnage

The creator of this thread is really saying, " im an insecure childish f**k tard that has to compensate for a little penis with a 1000cc bike, but like to talk smack to everyone else because I was picked on by everyone in middle school."

Someone's jelly

[Carnage]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Someone's jelly

Not "jelly" just annoyed by someone's need to feel noticed. Like a 5 year old

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Carnage

Not "jelly" just annoyed by someone's need to feel noticed. Like a 5 year old

I made something for you

Ignorance is bliss


also

na na na boo boo, I've got more 250s than you do

[CThunder-blue]

Originally Posted by Carnage

The creator of this thread is really saying, " im an insecure childish f**k tard that has to compensate for a little penis with a 1000cc bike, but like to talk smack to everyone else because I was picked on by everyone in middle school."

So... you coming here and calling someone else a name isn't childish either?

[Carnage]

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

So... you coming here and calling someone else a name isn't childish either?

You are correct I allowed the immaturity pull me down and I am sorry that I shrunk to his level.

[nickjpass]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

na na na boo boo, I've got more 250s than you do

@Jiggles
That's great jiggles

Also, I do completely agree about the new 250. I don't like how it looks (looks like a squooshed zx10r) and I feel like you won't be as involved. Price is a lot higher too. Also, what color is yours? You have my favorite year.

[Vergil]

If I had a quarter for the number of times Jiggles has pulled me out of a fire, I'd be in debt.

[CThunder-blue]

Originally Posted by Carnage

You are correct I allowed the immaturity pull me down and I am sorry that I shrunk to his level.

You'll get used to it. Try not to get too worked up over internet stuff. Jiggles makes a lot of posts per day. Most likely out of boredom. Just don't read his posts if you don't want to. He's also not the only one to make silly posts in order to garner attention. This particular post wasn't all that bad though. At least he hasn't started to refer to himself in the 3rd person.... yet.

[nickjpass]

Yeah...nickjpass refers to himself in the third person point of view occasionally.

[akima]

The good and the bad:
* fairings - i prefer how my ninjette looks. The new ninjette looks a bit angry and angsty... like it has confidence issues so it has to walk roll around with a moody face. The 2008+ ninjette looks kinda defiant and confident but still bubbly and smooth enough to feel warm and friendly. The pre2008 ninjettes... well... @choneofakind puts it best: it hit quite a few branches on the way down from the ugly tree, BUT, it's got character and it's lovely! I'd take a pre2008 ninjette over a 2011-CBR250R -- in terms of looks -- any day of the week.
* seat cowl - THAT looks awesome!
* digital gauge - I prefer my analogue gauge
* integrated turn signals - I love them!... but not enough to make me want to get a new ninjette. the after market ones you can get for my bike all look a bit crude IMO
* rubber washers around the engine to reduce vibration - seriously? so little has changed that one of your selling points are rubber washers! also - I like the vibrations from my ninjette!
* different wheel style - like Jiggles said: it looks rubbish!
* IRC TYRES AGAIN!!! - Imagine how much nicer the stock ninjette would be if it simply had a pair of DRII tyres on instead!
* FI - that's not a new feature for me. I'm glad to have it. I'm not interested in playing around with carbs
* "Exhaust is gay" - not how I would put it, but I agree with Jiggles sentiment.
* heavier - boooo!
* ABS - Yey! I'd absolutely love to have that on my ninjette. If it's possible I might try and buy the 2013 ninjette ABS parts and get them installed on my 2011 ninjette.
* ergonomically designed tank - if it really does make it easier to hold your weight off the tank, then that's a good decision
* I'm not certain, but looking at the photos it looks like the kickstand mount might be removable. I've heard about frequent track-riders in here sawing their stand-mount off to stop it hitting the ground on tight corners. If Kawi have made it unscrewable, then that makes it much more convenient to run a dual-use ninjette (track and road).
* stock rear hugger - Great that they added it, but it's hardly a selling point. They're only like £30 to buy for the 2008+ ninjette.

Comparing the 2013 ninjette with my 2011, the only green item listed of any substance is the ABS. Everything else seems quite superficial.

2013_ninjette.png

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

You'll get used to it. Try not to get too worked up over internet stuff. Jiggles makes a lot of posts per day. Most likely out of boredom. Just don't read his posts if you don't want to. He's also not the only one to make silly posts in order to garner attention. This particular post wasn't all that bad though. At least he hasn't started to refer to himself in the 3rd person.... yet.

Your dead on. Once I return to work and school I imagine my posts on this site will plummet, a sad day for everyone indeed.

I'm also gna need a +1 to my ignore list counter

@akima I think kawi did very well with the new 250 (aside from the wheels and exhaust). Their intent is to sell as many motorcycles as possible and I think this new model will succeed very well. Adding EFI and ABS to the bike will now make it utterly retarded to buy a cbr250 over the ninja 250. They also made it look like the larger CC bikes thus ensuring the safety of many men's penis size.

They also might have killed all those extra sales with the increased price, we'll just have to wait and see. And while I greatly prefer the newgen over the supergen in many aspects I think they will hit their mark of increased sales.

[nickjpass]

So how much will the previous generations drop in price because of the new one? Will it be cheaper too buy one?

[ForceofWill]

I'm not really impressed with the new one so far. I'm on the fence about the looks and I don't really think EFI is needed for a bike like this. The only thing I really would have liked to see was more HP. I'm guessing the engine is still the same, just with EFI? I would take that gauge cluster though, but the bike looks like every other Kawi now. I'm sure they'll sell a lot of them since most people buying these bikes are new riders and have no mechanical skills. I personally like having to work on my bike and I don't mind pulling out carbs and changing jets. The 08+ are great vehicles for people to start learning basic mechanics. Plenty of easy stuff to learn to do to it in a nice tiny package unlike starting with a car.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

So how much will the previous generations drop in price because of the new one? Will it be cheaper too buy one?

due to the price increase of the 2013 model, i dont think the price will drop much on the newer gen.
it will just decrease due to age.

most old gens that run well are around $1000, and will most likely remain there.

[nickjpass]

I would love to get the previous gen for a cheaper price.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

I would love to get the previous gen for a cheaper price.

Won't happen

[silentIm]

Originally Posted by ForceofWill

I'm not really impressed with the new one so far. I'm on the fence about the looks and I don't really think EFI is needed for a bike like this. The only thing I really would have liked to see was more HP. I'm guessing the engine is still the same, just with EFI? I would take that gauge cluster though, but the bike looks like every other Kawi now. I'm sure they'll sell a lot of them since most people buying these bikes are new riders and have no mechanical skills. I personally like having to work on my bike and I don't mind pulling out carbs and changing jets. The 08+ are great vehicles for people to start learning basic mechanics. Plenty of easy stuff to learn to do to it in a nice tiny package unlike starting with a car.

There wont be learner bike pass 33 hp.. But the bike may has potential when performance aftermarket flood the market.. I think there is old post on 2008 ninjette with 39 hp ORW... With port polishing, big bore high compression piston, and racing CDI.
With the new gen compression ratio is lower but makes abit more HP, think the potential if it raised to 12.5 : 1..

[CThunder-blue]

Originally Posted by ForceofWill

I'm not really impressed with the new one so far. I'm on the fence about the looks and I don't really think EFI is needed for a bike like this. The only thing I really would have liked to see was more HP. I'm guessing the engine is still the same, just with EFI? I would take that gauge cluster though, but the bike looks like every other Kawi now. I'm sure they'll sell a lot of them since most people buying these bikes are new riders and have no mechanical skills. I personally like having to work on my bike and I don't mind pulling out carbs and changing jets. The 08+ are great vehicles for people to start learning basic mechanics. Plenty of easy stuff to learn to do to it in a nice tiny package unlike starting with a car.

no, the engine is getting some tweaks too. They could have just ported the EFI engine from the 08 into the new model, but I think they would have found that a lot of 08-12 owners would have just started buying those efi available parts and doing a swap.

Don't forget, the nice thing with EFI is not having to worry about gummed up carbs for the people who store their bikes in the winter.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

no, the engine is getting some tweaks too. They could have just ported the EFI engine from the 08 into the new model, but I think they would have found that a lot of 08-12 owners would have just started buying those efi available parts and doing a swap.

Don't forget, the nice thing with EFI is not having to worry about gummed up carbs for the people who store their bikes in the winter.

the parts look different to me.
the the throttle assembly, boots and intake looks like they pulled it off a bigger bike. the ecu will be different as well.

if we used these parts, they wouldn't really be plug and play.
you would still need a power commander and an aftermarket filter at the minimum.

[Zola]

Originally Posted by ForceofWill

I'm not really impressed with the new one so far. I'm on the fence about the looks and I don't really think EFI is needed for a bike like this. The only thing I really would have liked to see was more HP. I'm guessing the engine is still the same, just with EFI? I would take that gauge cluster though, but the bike looks like every other Kawi now. I'm sure they'll sell a lot of them since most people buying these bikes are new riders and have no mechanical skills. I personally like having to work on my bike and I don't mind pulling out carbs and changing jets. The 08+ are great vehicles for people to start learning basic mechanics. Plenty of easy stuff to learn to do to it in a nice tiny package unlike starting with a car.

From CycleWorld:

The liquid-cooled, dohc, eight-valve, 249cc parallel-Twin will almost certainly be fuel-injected, despite the disclaimer that EFI will not be available in all markets. (If competing against the rival Honda is the Ninja’s intent, injection would seem to be mandatory: In back-to-back testing for our comparison, the carbureted 2011 Kawasaki was not able to fuel as crisply as the injected Honda.) In an effort to endow the new Ninja with more-precise fueling, give it better throttle response, improve what is already excellent fuel economy and reduce emissions, the engineers have fitted it with dual-butterfly throttle bodies.

Other engine changes include new cases with a larger oil sump, die-cast aluminum sleeveless cylinders treated with an anti-friction coating, anodized crankshaft journals also for reduced friction, new pistons and increased engine-cooling performance. All of it adds up to a power plant that should be more efficient and that Kawasaki claims has more bottom-end and mid-range power.

[nickjpass]

I just realized something. The 250 will most likely completely destroy the cbr...

[silentIm]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

I just realized something. The 250 will most likely completely destroy the cbr...

Oh it will.. do you know how long you have to wait here after you order the ninjette from dealer? Friggin 3 months! And people are still willing to wait eagerly! Sales of ninja 250 vs cbr 250 this Q1: 2100 / month vs 900 / month.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

I just realized something. The 250 will most likely completely destroy the cbr...

The ninjas were beating the cbr with leaned out carbs.
Imagine what a well tuned efi system will do....

In order to upstage the new ninja, honda will have to either upgrade to 2cyl 250cc motor or make a 350-400 cc beginner bike.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

I just realized something. The 250 will most likely completely destroy the cbr...

The ninja already severely molests the cbr

Originally Posted by lgk

The ninjas were beating the cbr with leaned out carbs.
Imagine what a well tuned efi system will do....

In order to upstage the new ninja, honda will have to either upgrade to 2cyl 250cc motor or make a 350-400 cc beginner bike.

Don't expect the stock efi system to be "well tuned" I imagine it will be only slightly better than stock carbs and will need a power commander in order to get the real benefit of EFI

[lgk]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

The ninja already severely molests the cbr



Don't expect the stock efi system to be "well tuned" I imagine it will be only slightly better than stock carbs and will need a power commander in order to get the real benefit of EFI

it might still be a little lean but you will gain power and response over the carbs.
i heard from someone say it was programmable, if so then a dealer could easily enrichen it.

can't wait to see what an exhaust and airbox removal would do to this ninja.

[Numbersix]

The only plus for me is the FI.

The styling is definitely angry-supersport, whereas the existing (new and oldgen) Ninjettes can be an everyman's bike.

Ditto on the geometry. Looks like the default position will be more forward. Again, if you're into the supersport/racing position, great; the neutral riding position looks like a thing of the past.

All the people who like flushmount lights will like the bodywork; I like people to SEE my lights, so I don't.

ABS is good but it is an extra cost.

Lastly, the FI of course won't retrofit to our bikes, so we'll still be stuck with 10 less mpg and fussing with carbs. Sorry, Jiggles, tuning and cleaning are not part of my motorcycle enjoyment; every moment spent on that stuff is one moment not riding.

So ... I guess with the new model, the CBR and Ninjette will no longer be really competing for the same people.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Numbersix

So ... I guess with the new model, the CBR and Ninjette will no longer be really competing for the same people.

yeah they will! They're on level ground now. Same tires. Same idea behind design; a sporting bike that's easy to learn on. Similar comfy ergos (they look identically upright to me) same abs option. Same fuel delivery. Similar weight, but the ninjette is heavier and has a ton more gas capability.

The biggest difference will be the performance and the styling. That sounds like practically the same bike with the same market in mind to me. the new ninjette isn't going to suddenly be a supersport insanely aggressive bike. Its still the baby of their lineup
Posted via Mobile Device

[Xoulrath]

Originally Posted by ForceofWill

I don't really think EFI is needed for a bike like this.

I must disagree with you here. I commuted on my 250 almost every day when I had it: hot or cold, rain or shine, it made no difference to me. The ONLY thing I hated about the '09 I had was the choice to use carburetion in the U.S. market as opposed to EFI. Dealing with having to let the bike up for as long as ten minutes before it was rideable was a pain in the ass.

Originally Posted by lgk

In order to upstage the new ninja, honda will have to either upgrade to 2cyl 250cc motor or make a 350-400 cc beginner bike.

There are plenty of dirtbikes that break 50 hp using a 250cc four stroke. Moto 3 uses single cylinder 250 engines that make plenty of horsepower to easily embarass the 250 twin in the Ninjette. It wouldn't take much for Honda to tweak the single a bit to have comparable power to the twin while still maintaining a torque advantage down low and still remaining reliable. Remember, they only need to get to 33 HP, which is the maximum limit in a large number of countries that have graduated licensing. They can easily crank that out of a single.

Honda didn't spend money on R&D to make a world bike that had to be redesigned as soon as the competition came out with something to challenge them. That CBR isn't all out of tricks already.

The fact that Kawasaki has already redesigned the Ninjette after a very long period of barely changed minor revisions shows that they are aware that Honda does have a presence in the segment, regardless of what sales numbers show, especially when those sales numbers are just U.S. sales.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Xoulrath

I must disagree with you here. I commuted on my 250 almost every day when I had it: hot or cold, rain or shine, it made no difference to me. The ONLY thing I hated about the '09 I had was the choice to use carburetion in the U.S. market as opposed to EFI. Dealing with having to let the bike up for as long as ten minutes before it was rideable was a pain in the ass.

10 minutes? Are you serious? I let my bike idle for 10-30 seconds and then take off

[Xoulrath]

Sean you must have missed the part of my statement about riding hot or COLD.

Yes, sometimes in 25-40 degree weather the bike required ten minutes before it was safe to operate. It would often require a solid minute or two on the choke before I could open it and the bike not stall. Even once the bike could idle, it would often stall under all but the most minute of throttle application.

Several times after I believed the bike was ready to roll, I hopped on, made it down the driveway, and started to pull out on to the road. Five minutes or so have passed by this time and I still had a problem with applying enough throttle to get the bike to do more than crawl without stalling. A few times I pulled out on to the road believing the bike ready to go and it started to stall. It became a safety issue on an occasion or two as I thought the bike ready to roll and I pull out onto the road only to have it stutter and buck hesitantly. It scared the crap out of me knowing that a car could be blazing around the blind corner with no way of knowing I was there.

It generally started faster above 40 degrees, but it required a choke up to about 65 or so degrees most of the time.

[Jiggles]

I can't speak for temps that low, the coldest I've started up is around 36 degrees in the morning in the winter. Even so I would only idle the bike for about a minute. I ride with the choke on, do you not? It sounds like you need to rejet or something

[Xoulrath]

No, I never touched the jets. I thought about it at one point but I ended up spending the money on a paved driveway. Besides, I shouldn't have to fix a problem from the factory, which is why I much prefer fuel injection. Maybe it isn't tuned perfectly from the factory for maximum performance or for maximum economy, but it works well enough that an owner doesn't need to mess with it. Not true of the carbs that the 250 comes with. I was going to do the washer trick but I just couldn't be bothered to waste my time with it.

I ended up getting to the point where I had to ride with the choke on if I was running late and it was still stalling, but I realized quickly it was going to be a problem so I jsut ran outside and fired the bike up and let it warm up while I put my gear on. It wasn't terribly hard to work around for me, but I won't purcahse a new bike without FI, and any used bikes I may pick up that use carbs are going to be bargains.

I really enjoyed being able to take my ex-wife's TU on the really cold days. It stared with no problem and was rideable immediately. What can I say, I just don't like carbs. I don't have the bike anymore so I can't say it's a problem now.

[Alex]

But to Jiggles' question, why wouldn't you ride with the choke on for the first few minutes? That's how it should be used in cold conditions. Start it on the choke, and if the bike won't idle without the choke on, leave it on while you roll away. Start dialing the choke back after a minute or two, and all is well.

[miss_syn]

Originally Posted by akima

The good and the bad:
* fairings - i prefer how my ninjette looks. The new ninjette looks a bit angry and angsty... like it has confidence issues so it has to walk roll around with a moody face. The 2008+ ninjette looks kinda defiant and confident but still bubbly and smooth enough to feel warm and friendly. The pre2008 ninjettes... well... @choneofakind puts it best: it hit quite a few branches on the way down from the ugly tree, BUT, it's got character and it's lovely! I'd take a pre2008 ninjette over a 2011-CBR250R -- in terms of looks -- any day of the week.
* seat cowl - THAT looks awesome!
* digital gauge - I prefer my analogue gauge
* integrated turn signals - I love them!... but not enough to make me want to get a new ninjette. the after market ones you can get for my bike all look a bit crude IMO
* rubber washers around the engine to reduce vibration - seriously? so little has changed that one of your selling points are rubber washers! also - I like the vibrations from my ninjette!
* different wheel style - like Jiggles said: it looks rubbish!
* IRC TYRES AGAIN!!! - Imagine how much nicer the stock ninjette would be if it simply had a pair of DRII tyres on instead!
* FI - that's not a new feature for me. I'm glad to have it. I'm not interested in playing around with carbs
* "Exhaust is gay" - not how I would put it, but I agree with Jiggles sentiment.
* heavier - boooo!
* ABS - Yey! I'd absolutely love to have that on my ninjette. If it's possible I might try and buy the 2013 ninjette ABS parts and get them installed on my 2011 ninjette.
* ergonomically designed tank - if it really does make it easier to hold your weight off the tank, then that's a good decision
* I'm not certain, but looking at the photos it looks like the kickstand mount might be removable. I've heard about frequent track-riders in here sawing their stand-mount off to stop it hitting the ground on tight corners. If Kawi have made it unscrewable, then that makes it much more convenient to run a dual-use ninjette (track and road).
* stock rear hugger - Great that they added it, but it's hardly a selling point. They're only like £30 to buy for the 2008+ ninjette.

Comparing the 2013 ninjette with my 2011, the only green item listed of any substance is the ABS. Everything else seems quite superficial.

Attachment 20068

I feel pretty much the same way.

The only thing that I would really like is the fuel injection for better mpg.... but DANG, that thing is UUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGLLLLLLLLLLLLYYYYY

Just my personal opinion. If you like it, cool.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by miss_syn

I feel pretty much the same way.

The only thing that I would really like is the fuel injection for better mpg.... but DANG, that thing is UUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGLLLLLLLLLLLLYYYYY

Just my personal opinion. If you like it, cool.

Haha c'mon it's not ugly, it just doesn't say "250"

[greg737]

'86-'07 the "Pre-Gen"

'08-'12 the "Middle Child"

'13-?? the "New, New-Gen"

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by greg737

'86-'07 the "Pre-Gen"

'08-'12 the "Middle Child"

'13-?? the "New, New-Gen"

'86-'07 the "Pre-Gen"

'08-'12 the "New-Gen"

'13-?? the "Super-Gen"

Cuz it looks like a damn supersport

[lgk]

Originally Posted by Xoulrath

There are plenty of dirtbikes that break 50 hp using a 250cc four stroke. Moto 3 uses single cylinder 250 engines that make plenty of horsepower to easily embarass the 250 twin in the Ninjette. It wouldn't take much for Honda to tweak the single a bit to have comparable power to the twin while still maintaining a torque advantage down low and still remaining reliable. Remember, they only need to get to 33 HP, which is the maximum limit in a large number of countries that have graduated licensing. They can easily crank that out of a single.

why are you even comparing moto3 bikes that use race gas, cost 6x more, and are maintained every race, to a daily driven value leader.

people that aren't limited to 33hp and limited to less than $8k will find the 2cyl easier to work power out of.

honda may not be out of tricks, but they have a real hard battle ahead of them.