Ever been robbed/attacked while riding?

[Otter]

...well, like at an intersection or in a parking lot
I know we all try to avoid riding through bad parts of town, particularly at night, but sometimes you can't. You hear a lot about people being robbed while they are are in their cars, and it seems people riding motorcycles would be even easier targets. I don't live in fear, but I do carry a Glock 40 cal in my truck-just in case

[Soosh]

I ride to Downtown Detroit quite often and the thought is always lingering in the back of my head, however unlikely it is. The city itself is great, but the ride back home is always a little scary. it's not that i fear getting attacked by someone, the rundown nature of the areas is harrowing. Think post-apocalyptic wasteland.

[Jiggles]

I think a biker is a more intimidating target than someone in a car.

[xtrapsi]

No.
But like Mike, I seem to think about it more when I'm in the city and all the creepy people are eyeballing me!

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Ren13

If anything - an easier target.. all it takes is someone to sneak up on you at a light and push you off your bike. With a car at least you have a layer of glass between them and you.

I didn't say harder I said more intimidating. You can't see a bikers face as well (full face helmet) so it's difficult to judge their attitude/demeanor. Plus with all of your gear on it would be like attacking someone in armor. Most attackers also wouldn't be able to ride your bike away.

Think of how bikers are portrayed in the media, alot of the time, as people with a death wish. Although you are an easy target, you don't look like one.

[ducducgooseit]

, but I kinda doubt many hell's angels get jumped in detroit.

[Mr.E]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

I didn't say harder I said more intimidating. You can't see a bikers face as well (full face helmet) so it's difficult to judge their attitude/demeanor. Plus with all of your gear on it would be like attacking someone in armor. Most attackers also wouldn't be able to ride your bike away.

Think of how bikers are portrayed in the media, alot of the time, as people with a death wish. Although you are an easy target, you don't look like one.

[JoeLansing]

Originally Posted by Soosh

I ride to Downtown Detroit quite often and the thought is always lingering in the back of my head, however unlikely it is. The city itself is great, but the ride back home is always a little scary. it's not that i fear getting attacked by someone, the rundown nature of the areas is harrowing. Think post-apocalyptic wasteland.

I know what you mean. Heading north on Rosa Parks from the old Tiger Stadium is an interesting trip. This tiny .380 with laser makes me feel a bit safer.
- Joe

[Too40gawlf]

Originally Posted by JoeLansing

I know what you mean. Heading north on Rosa Parks from the old Tiger Stadium is an interesting trip. This tiny .380 with laser makes me feel a bit safer.
- Joe

Love the slide on that P3AT!

[Jiggles]

Next question, is the .380/9mm enough to save you!?

lol jk

[adri99an]

I usually just toss my cup at them....they gag and I'm off!

[Too40gawlf]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Next question, is the .380/9mm enough to save you!?

lol jk

Lol, I know youre joking, but I can just sense some needledick is out there waiting to heckle from the peanut gallery, so I'll just say this.

Anyone that denigrates a 9mm, .380, or any centerfire pistol caliber is stupid, ignorant, and has learned about defensive use of firearms from their fat, lowlife uncle. The truth of the matter is that a pistol is insufficient for stopping a human being. The only sure way to end a threat immediately with a pistol caliber is to put rounds in the central nervous system. Otherwise, if a .380 ACP wont do it, neither will a .45 ACP. 800-1100 fps and 300-400 ft/lbs are not enough to stop a motivated adult human from coming at you, unless you flick off his 'off switch'.

If you want to fight, you need a long gun.

Since its impractical to strap a rifle across your back while riding, then folks make do with pistol size alternatives. However, a pistol, any pistol, is a compromise - giving up velocity and muzzle energy for compact size and smaller weight. If you think your going to negate this liability by carrying a .45 ACP instead of a 9mm, you dont know much about ballistics and defensive applications of firearms.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Too40gawlf

Lol, I know youre joking, but I can just sense some needledick is out there waiting to heckle from the peanut gallery, so I'll just say this.

Anyone that denigrates a 9mm, .380, or any centerfire pistol caliber is stupid, ignorant, and has learned about defensive use of firearms from their fat, lowlife uncle. The truth of the matter is that a pistol is insufficient for stopping a human being. The only sure way to end a threat immediately with a pistol caliber is to put rounds in the central nervous system. Otherwise, if a .380 ACP wont do it, neither will a .45 ACP. 800-1100 fps and 300-400 ft/lbs are not enough to stop a motivated adult human from coming at you, unless you flick off his 'off switch'.

If you want to fight, you need a long gun.

Since its impractical to strap a rifle across your back while riding, then folks make do with pistol size alternatives. However, a pistol, any pistol, is a compromise - giving up velocity and muzzle energy for compact size and smaller weight. If you think your going to negate this liability by carrying a .45 ACP instead of a 9mm, you dont know much about ballistics and defensive applications of firearms.

I assure you my fat uncle did not teach me about guns lol. I extensively researched the subject before choosing my sidearm. I spent hours reading through ballistic reports, caliber reviews, etc. etc. I'm not going to try to convince you either way but I will tell you that the deciding factor for me to get a .45 and not a 9mm (I originally planned on getting a glock 17) was a very interesting blog from a coroner. It was much more detailed than I'm giving it credit for but it came down to the coroner finding different amounts of bullets in his (patients???) depending on the caliber. He found that typically victims shot with 9mm/.380 had more bullets in them than others shot with .40/.44/.45

When firing on someone the goal is to incapacitate them. This can be done with a fatal shot to the brain, heart, etc. If you make that shot, it doesn't matter what caliber you used (as long as it was able to penetrate the bone). If you don't make that fatal shot then what will incapacitate your target will be blood loss/lowered blood pressure. A .45 makes bigger holes and leads to more bleeding and is more likely to incapacitate your target.

As far as a carry weapon, I've never shot a lightweight 3-inch .45 so I don't know if the recoil would be too much to handle. If I could handle it I would get a .45 for a carry, if I couldn't I would get something smaller.

Another point, I didn't do alot of research on it but I remember finding that the five seven 5.7mm pistols had fantastic ballistic tests due to their incredibly high velocity. Something to do with a bullet hitting flesh at over 2000fps (or whatever the critical velocity is) would cause significant damage.

Now then, I would greatly prefer a 9mm to mace, thank you California.

[Too40gawlf]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

I assure you my fat uncle did not teach me about guns lol. I extensively researched the subject before choosing my sidearm. I spent hours reading through ballistic reports, caliber reviews, etc. etc. I'm not going to try to convince you either way but I will tell you that the deciding factor for me to get a .45 and not a 9mm (I originally planned on getting a glock 17) was a very interesting blog from a coroner. It was much more detailed than I'm giving it credit for but it came down to the coroner finding different amounts of bullets in his (patients???) depending on the caliber. He found that typically victims shot with 9mm/.380 had more bullets in them than others shot with .40/.44/.45

When firing on someone the goal is to incapacitate them. This can be done with a fatal shot to the brain, heart, etc. If you make that shot, it doesn't matter what caliber you used (as long as it was able to penetrate the bone). If you don't make that fatal shot then what will incapacitate your target will be blood loss/lowered blood pressure. A .45 makes bigger holes and leads to more bleeding and is more likely to incapacitate your target.

As far as a carry weapon, I've never shot a lightweight 3-inch .45 so I don't know if the recoil would be too much to handle. If I could handle it I would get a .45 for a carry, if I couldn't I would get something smaller.

Another point, I didn't do alot of research on it but I remember finding that the five seven 5.7mm pistols had fantastic ballistic tests due to their incredibly high velocity. Something to do with a bullet hitting flesh at over 2000fps (or whatever the critical velocity is) would cause significant damage.

Now then, I would greatly prefer a 9mm to mace, thank you California.

Sorry, I didnt mean to imply you specifically were stupid. If you choose a .45 ACP based on your experience and research, that's fine. Im talking about the gun store commandos that sneer at 'lesser' calibers because they are too stupid to realize what they are parroting and even though they are 60 year old jugs of fat, they have never carried a firearm in a real life situation. Like the one idiot in a gunshop that sneared at my Sig P226 and said it was a mouse gun.

Anyway, the point Im trying to make is from this quote here, since I cant cut from adobe at the moment, Im posting the screenshot



This is from
Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness
PATRICK, Urey W.; Special Agent, FBI; 1989

Look it up on the internet, its an interesting read.

[n4mwd]

I haven't had the problem personally, but a local guy did....

Originally Posted by http://www.tcoasttalk.com/2010/08/17/fort-pierce-motorcyclist-beaten-in-road-rage-incident/

Fort Pierce motorcyclist beaten in road rage incident
August 17th, 2010 by TCPalm.com

By Elliott Jones

FORT PIERCE — A 21-year-old Fort Pierce resident riding his new motorcycle was beaten by an unidentified middle-aged man in an apparent road rage incident, police reports show.

The victim, Ian Hillard, of the 6200 block of Citrus Avenue, Fort Pierce, told police he was riding south on Oleander Boulevard at 9:51 p.m. Friday when a blue minivan cut him off.

The van went into a parking lot with Hillard following. The minivan driver then got out, shoved the motorcyclist and motorcycle to the ground, damaging a gasoline line.

Then “the suspect jumped on top of him (Hillard) and began repeatedly punching him in the head” so hard the helmet’s face guard broke off,” according to a police report. Finally, the van driver drove off, according to Hillard and a witness.

Police reports indicate that Hillard’s lips were split and bleeding and he had red marks on his right cheek.

Police are looking for the assailant, who is described as being in his mid 40 with short dark hair and a stocky build. The suspect has a suspended Florida driver license, the reports show.

But there was also another local biker hater that had a habit of running down bikers from the rear when they slow for a stop light. That guy is in jail right now awaiting trial after killing one biker and seriously injuring another in two separate biker hate crime incidents 6 months apart.

As far as hanguns, I really don't care what the "experts" say, if someone attacks me, they will find out first hand just what a 9mm kill round will do.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Too40gawlf

Sorry, I didnt mean to imply you specifically were stupid. If you choose a .45 ACP based on your experience and research, that's fine. Im talking about the gun store commandos that sneer at 'lesser' calibers because they are too stupid to realize what they are parroting and even though they are 60 year old jugs of fat, they have never carried a firearm in a real life situation. Like the one idiot in a gunshop that sneared at my Sig P226 and said it was a mouse gun.

Anyway, the point Im trying to make is from this quote here, since I cant cut from adobe at the moment, Im posting the screenshot

Yea I would never do that to someone. My personal philosophy is to use/carry whatever you can shoot quickly, accurately, and comfortably and pray that the day never comes where you need to use it.

If California ever grants me the right to carry then I will probably end up with a 9mm/.40 The recoil of a .45, especially quality defensive rounds, would probably be too much to shoot quickly and accurately in a smaller framed gun.


I think if you shot a mouse with a p226 then it would cease to exist....

[DarC]

They always say it's not size that matters, it's how you wiggle it.

Same is true with bullets, to an extent. Shot placement is key, followed by sheer volume. That is why, regardless of caliber selection, we are taught to shoot until the threat has subsided. Although I do believe that in some instances a larger round will provide a greater chance for a one shot stop in comparision to a round with less applied muzzle energy placed in the same spot, BUT I do not like taking those kind of odds and will shoot until they go down. The type of round and weapon are also variables. The wounding power of a round is also a moot argument. Who cares if a hollowpoint .45 rips your arm off when compared to a clean FMJ 9mm wound....we are not trying to wound. Wounded people fight, dead people do not.

Only difference between calibers when used by a trained individual is the mess the coroner has to deal with.

FYI, the argument on caliber balistics is better applied to barrier penetration. In which case I would prefer .357 SIG.

[JoeLansing]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Yea I would never do that to someone. My personal philosophy is to use/carry whatever you can shoot quickly, accurately, and comfortably and pray that the day never comes where you need to use it.

Amen Brother! I've got 3 9MM's, but the .380 I have has a laser and is so small and easy to carry. At 25 yards the laser is off maybe 1/2" to the left. I use Corbon DPX in it. It only holds 7 rounds, but that's enough to make somebody go away and bother someone else. It has no safety at all which makes it very easy to use. Others may feel better carrying other things, in other ways. That's fine. Carry what you are good with. I may switch to a Taurus PT-145 .45 APC someday if I can find one cheap with a great laser. The .380 is fine for me now. The 9MM's I have are either ugly (Hi-Point) or big (Taurus PT-99).
- Joe

[EsrTek]

Never seen the need for a .40/.45 in a carry gun, too heavy too much recoil (esp in compact and subcompact).
Anyway, when dealing w/ motorcycles... A .22 gun would be the fastest/accurate combo if looking for speed and precision, and if you hit in the right spots, which even their reports above state, you will kill the target just the same. Plus you don't have to worry much about it going through your target and hitting some innocent person... plus it's much easier to carry on the bike, over my pk380.

[JoeLansing]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Another point, I didn't do alot of research on it but I remember finding that the five seven 5.7mm pistols had fantastic ballistic tests due to their incredibly high velocity. Something to do with a bullet hitting flesh at over 2000fps (or whatever the critical velocity is) would cause significant damage.

All you need to kick butt is a little .357/38 revolver. Weapon choices and ammo are widely available. You can get them in pink, blue, purple, or even scary black. A .357 choice does lower the capacity of the weapon, but just the muzzle blast will hurt them Speed loaders are an option, but I like a hi-cap mag better.
- Joe

[Too40gawlf]

Originally Posted by EsrTek

Never seen the need for a .40/.45 in a carry gun, too heavy too much recoil (esp in compact and subcompact).
Anyway, when dealing w/ motorcycles... A .22 gun would be the fastest/accurate combo if looking for speed and precision, and if you hit in the right spots, which even their reports above state, you will kill the target just the same. Plus you don't have to worry much about it going through your target and hitting some innocent person... plus it's much easier to carry on the bike, over my pk380.

I would love a nice high capacity .22 pistol. The only problem is that .22LR is highly unreliable in every semiautomatic application. Thats just the nature of rimfire cartridges.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by JoeLansing

All you need to kick butt is a little .357/38 revolver. Weapon choices and ammo are widely available. You can get them in pink, blue, purple, or even scary black. A .357 choice does lower the capacity of the weapon, but just the muzzle blast will hurt them Speed loaders are an option, but I like a hi-cap mag better.
- Joe

I prefer a 1911 trigger pull to a revolvers trigger pull (actually I prefer it to any other weapon). Kimber makes a cool little 9mm with crimson trace grips, but I think I'd rather have a sidearm with a double stacked mag.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Too40gawlf

I would love a nice high capacity .22 pistol. The only problem is that .22LR is highly unreliable in every semiautomatic application. Thats just the nature of rimfire cartridges.

I've never had a problem with my ruger 10/22 nor the 22 conversion kit for my 1911.

Glockworld.com just sent me an email too with about 15 .22 1911s priced $250-$400 and I fell in love. If only I wasn't saving for a damn Area P exhaust

[ninja_sleeper]

I was driving all around Portland last night, and this thought ran through my mind a time or two. Lots of sketch people out!

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by EsrTek

Never seen the need for a .40/.45 in a carry gun, too heavy too much recoil (esp in compact and subcompact).
Anyway, when dealing w/ motorcycles... A .22 gun would be the fastest/accurate combo if looking for speed and precision, and if you hit in the right spots, which even their reports above state, you will kill the target just the same. Plus you don't have to worry much about it going through your target and hitting some innocent person... plus it's much easier to carry on the bike, over my pk380.

Thats what I was thinking but the only carry gun I've ever fired was a baby glock 9mm so I can't really say. And the only .22 I would even think about carrying would be a derringer as a backup

[Otter]

Enjoyed the responses

Saw a show about "blight" in Detroit-looks like after Katrina in some parts around New Orleans. Weird.

Like I said pereviously, I carry a Glock 23 (40 cal) in my truck, between the front seats. I've never had to pull it, much less use it, and I hope I never do, but there have been several ocassions on which I felt very reassured just knowing it was there-either taking a wrong turn and finding myself in a bad part of town, when travelling, or, most often, when I have to get gas at some shadey gas/convenience store late at night so I don't run out. Seems like "gangsta" (wannabes like to hang out at those places. Personally, I don't see the appeal Wish I could figure out a place to keep it on my 'jette, like a glove box

I also have a full-sized Springfield 1911 (45). I like it, but I shoot the 40 better-besides, it's got night sights. The recoil is no worse with the 45. I've heard it described as more of a "push" than a "snap" like the 40. I don't know except it's not bad at all. It's all steel, and it's big and heavy (helps with recoil, but I can't imagine having to carry it-even in a holster!). As Jiggles said, and just about true expert on handgun self-defense would agree, caliber doesn't matter nearly as much as skill. Kind of like motorcycles-someone with skill on a 250 will usually beat a bigger bike riden by someone with less skill-AND do it more safely!

[Too40gawlf]

Originally Posted by ninja_sleeper

I was driving all around Portland last night, and this thought ran through my mind a time or two. Lots of sketch people out!

More photos like the one in your avatar please!

[Otter]

I usually just toss my cup at them....they gag and I'm off!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Touche, adri99an

I may try that but...

"GIMME YOUR WALLET!"
"Hold on, Mr Criminal-I keep it...right here...UNDER MY BURLS!!!"

[Otter]

+1,000,000
i LOVE RED BIKES!

[alex.s]

i've been attacked ... by bugs.
i was robbed ... by the dealership.

[DarC]

Originally Posted by EsrTek

Never seen the need for a .40/.45 in a carry gun, too heavy too much recoil (esp in compact and subcompact).
Anyway, when dealing w/ motorcycles... A .22 gun would be the fastest/accurate combo if looking for speed and precision, and if you hit in the right spots, which even their reports above state, you will kill the target just the same. Plus you don't have to worry much about it going through your target and hitting some innocent person... plus it's much easier to carry on the bike, over my pk380.

I truly prefer my glock 19 over my compact 1911 (glock has tritium combat sigts and 16 rounds of CorBon) but I still carry the 1911 to feel nostalgic, or if I am dressing to impress (I have a gorgeous hand made holster that goes well with the stainless pistol--no homo) The pistol is heavy but recoil is nothing. My .380 actually snaps harder just because of size and weight.

I wouldn't carry a .22 unless absolutely necessary. While they can be deadly, the fact is the ballistics do not end up in your favor. The time to kill is much longer unless direct control tower shots are made just because of the wound channel characteristics and very low round weight. This changes dramatically if you slap a rifle cartride behind that lil .22. Little entrance, large wound channel.

A large percentage of people who actually end up in a shoot to defend situations are going to have a more difficult time using fine motor skills to aim. Add this to the low muzzle energy and reliability of a rimfire cartridge and it's just not the best choice when you must 1000% guarantee that it will go bang.

I do have a Walther P22 that I tuck every now and again, but it is usually when I am walking through rattler territory. That and I feel like a hitman with the supressor on it.

This is the most civil firearms dicussion I've seen, maybe we need a Post your Ninja Packin' Pics thread.

[Otter]

Yea, I got the 1911 45 partly for the nostalgia factor. It's part of our American heritage-literally. Also interesting that the design is 100 years old, and as much as gun designs have changed, it remains a very valid pistol. I've read of some soldiers in Afghanistan swithing back to 1911's from Berrettas for more "knock-down power", but now we'll be getting really deep into ballistics, calibers, loads, etc.-that's when the arguing starts Anyone interested in that shouldn't have any trouble finding numerous forums on which to kick that dead horse

[Otter]

...gun forums, that is

[Mr.E]

I always thought carrying weapons outside your house was illegal. Am I wrong?

[DarC]

Originally Posted by Mr.E

I always thought carrying weapons outside your house was illegal. Am I wrong?

Only if you wear wool and go bahhhh.

[ninja_sleeper]

Originally Posted by Mr.E

I always thought carrying weapons outside your house was illegal. Am I wrong?

There are 36 states (I think) that you can get a license to carry a concealed handgun.

I'm getting mine here in OR. Took the class, gotta send in the paperwork. Oregon is the only state you can carry more than one.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Mr.E

I always thought carrying weapons outside your house was illegal. Am I wrong?

You need to get a CCW (concealed carry weapons permit) It varies from state to state, dont even try in cali though

[DarC]

Originally Posted by Otter

Yea, I got the 1911 45 partly for the nostalgia factor. It's part of our American heritage-literally. Also interesting that the design is 100 years old, and as much as gun designs have changed, it remains a very valid pistol. I've read of some soldiers in Afghanistan swithing back to 1911's from Berrettas for more "knock-down power", but now we'll be getting really deep into ballistics, calibers, loads, etc.-that's when the arguing starts Anyone interested in that shouldn't have any trouble finding numerous forums on which to kick that dead horse

We has a limited number of 1911's but mag supplies were low and you had to order(buy) a bunch of spares. Ammo wasn't as plentyful either so sadly they sat in the arms room and only a few guys carried them. I may have made the move on them but I got to shoot more rounds at the range and carried 2x what they could carry with less mag changes.

We had the opportunity to carry Glock 19's, SIG Pro 2022's, or if you were lower on the totem the Berreta. The Sig guys figured out real quick that they were better off with the Berreta, I personally had a G19. I think the Glock made an awesome close combat pistol..no problems with knockdown power at all


FWIW...we also made a full-auto Berreta (like the FS). I have a pic of it somewhere around here, maybe even a video if I can locate it.

[Jiggles]

This is the most civil firearms dicussion I've seen, maybe we need a Post your Ninja Packin' Pics thread.

Go make one =]

The 1911 is the sexiest pistol. And on a bed of freshly cleaned brass? How could you disagree. (yes I know its not a REAL 1911 cuz it has a rail )

Thats my bro with my dads 44 mag. Thats a damn sexy pistol too.

.22 vs .45 vs 7.62x54r (which goes in my $99 Mosin Nagant from Big 5, love that rifle!)

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by DarC

We has a limited number of 1911's but mag supplies were low and you had to order(buy) a bunch of spares. Ammo wasn't as plentyful either so sadly they sat in the arms room and only a few guys carried them. I may have made the move on them but I got to shoot more rounds at the range and carried 2x what they could carry with less mag changes.

We had the opportunity to carry Glock 19's, SIG Pro 2022's, or if you were lower on the totem the Berreta. The Sig guys figured out real quick that they were better off with the Berreta, I personally had a G19. I think the Glock made an awesome close combat pistol..no problems with knockdown power at all


FWIW...we also made a full-auto Berreta (like the FS). I have a pic of it somewhere around here, maybe even a video if I can locate it.

I knew a guy who had a 1911 with a manufacturer defect that caused the pistol to fire fully automatic. I'd like to see the full auto berretta. I've seen tons of full auto glocks (G18???) on youtube, that thing is crazy