tipping

Blackwidow · May 23rd, 2011, 01:01 PM

This weekend I went to get my hair done for a wedding I attended, and the total for my hair came out to 75 bucks, so naturally I gave the hair dresser 80$ and she didn't give me my 5$ back. now I understand that people tip hair dressers and such, but why? If i'm going to a person for hair cutting and their fee is 20$ why am I expected to tip them? They are not doing anything above and beyond what their getting paid to do.

When I go to a restaurant, i go to eat...I tip the server cuz she/he did gave me added service by bringing the food to me, so I understand why a tip would be necessary in this circumstance.

What do you guys think? Are some professions spoiled to the point where they think a tip is a requirement?

Liber · May 23rd, 2011, 01:16 PM

I got into this SAME argument 2 weeks ago with a female friend about the woman that cuts my hair. Simplified conversation:

Me: "Why should I tip her?"

Her: "She has to pay part of the rent for her shop"(she shares the shop with 4 other women)

Me: "That's just overhead, if she needs to cover the costs she should charge more"

Her: "that's not how it's done, you are supposed to tip her, it's just courtesy"

Me: "huh?"

NOW, I understand tipping if the hairdresser/barber is forced to charge a set rate by the shop. I've been to the places where they have several grades of skill. Each grade cost a different, set amount. A tip is warranted, imho, if the dresser/barber does an exceptionally good job for their skill level assigned by the shop.

However, when these people basically work for themselves and set their own prices, a tip is NOT warranted, except maybe in very unique situations, for which they do not have a standard price for. ie: correcting an at-home hair dyeing session gone horribly wrong.

Apex · May 23rd, 2011, 01:22 PM

Paulette, technically isn't it the waiters job to take your order and bring your food to you? That is what they are getting paid for. So by that reasoning, you shouldn't need to tip them.

I view it this way:

I am paying to get my hair cut. Simple as that. Now, as with any profession, there are people who do a good job at it and there are people who are hack jobs. If you do a good job at it, I will reward you with a tip (which encourages the person cutting my hair to continue to do a good job). If you suck, you won't get anything.

Same with a waiter. If my glass is always full, the orders are correct, you check the table frequently, then you get a good tip. If I have to track you down to get a refill or if you severely screw up my order, you don't get a tip or get a piss poor one.

I can get several different levels of service, I reward those who go above and beyond.

I figured that is a fair way of thinking.

CmichRider · May 23rd, 2011, 01:25 PM

^^^^^Got to it before me, pretty much took the words out of my post.

I suppose you could say the same thing about servers though, that it's their job to bring you your food, so why tip them for doing their job. I usually always tip though, but they only get something worthwhile when they go out of their way to do an exceptional job. The same for barbers/haircutters, the guy at the car wash, ect.

What really gets me is when they include gratuity in the price of the service or food..

Ambar · May 23rd, 2011, 01:25 PM

Unless the hairdresser is leasing the station, they usually only see between 45-50%, I believe, of what ever the cost of the service is. Tips are not required but they sure go a long way towards making the stylist want to go the "extra mile" to ensure you are satisfied and will come back.

With regards to restaurants, I don't know if has changed but a lot of them pay quite a bit below minimum wage. They can do this because the server is expected to make up the difference in tips. In addition, once the night has ended, for a lot of places, the waitperson is expected to then give a tip to the person that busses the table and to the bartender. I guess they don't have to, but I'll bet it would make a difference as to who's table gets cleaned first and who's drinks get made quickly.

There again, tipping is not a requirement, but service people have great memories when it comes to who tips...and who doesn't.

CC Cowboy · May 23rd, 2011, 01:34 PM

Service jobs! If the service was good, tip. It will pay off next time.

CynicalC · May 23rd, 2011, 01:35 PM

I never know what to do. Obviously you tip at a restaurant depending on the level of service, but that's because wait staff can make less than minimum wage and tipping compensates for that. I've always tipped my barbers too, and food delivery people. But now what about when you get curbside pickup at a restaurant, are you supposed to tip them too? What about service people who come to fix your cable or something?

bdavison · May 23rd, 2011, 01:40 PM

I tip based on the services rendered....as service goes up....so does the tip.
Ive gone to places where the service from a waitress was so good, I left her a $20, and ive been to places where the service was so pathetic i left em a single penny.

Tips are not mandatory, and are a way of expressing thanks for a job well done. If they dont perform, no tip is warrented.

As far as haircuts go, most of these "chop shops" that call themselves hair salons are nothing more than high school dropouts with a certificate, who slap you down in a chair, and snip away, brush the shavings down the back of your shirt, and then stand there with their hand out.

My suggestion....
Search around for a hair salon that makes you want to tip, and then do so.

bob706 · May 23rd, 2011, 01:43 PM

I have always tipped the barbers I have been to but if one of them didn't give back the change because they expect a tip, I would never go back to them.

Blackwidow · May 23rd, 2011, 01:49 PM

I get it, trust me I always tip, it just didn't sit right with me when she didn't even bother to give me my change back...she was EXPECTING a tip, which is what turned me off.

Its one thing when you want to give someone a tip, and its another when its expected. If she had given my change back I might have given her a 20, but since she didn't even bother giving my change, I was like screw that.

the difference between waiters and hairdressers is this...I go to a restaurant to eat, so i'm paying for the food the bill includes overhead fees and all that good stuff to keep the restaurant open, I tip the waiter cuz its an added service, I can always go to Mcdonalds if I don't want to be served my food...I go to a hairdresser to get my hair done...and the hairdresser is charging me the fee for cutting, dying, styling my hair (the service) and i'm sure it doesn't cost her 20 dollars for a pair of scissors or 80$ for hair dye, so her overhead fees and her own fee are included.

This specific lady owns her own shop, so its not like she's renting a chair. her fee is what it costs for product and keep the business going.

Blackwidow · May 23rd, 2011, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CynicalC

I never know what to do. Obviously you tip at a restaurant depending on the level of service, but that's because wait staff can make less than minimum wage and tipping compensates for that. I've always tipped my barbers too, and food delivery people. But now what about when you get curbside pickup at a restaurant, are you supposed to tip them too? What about service people who come to fix your cable or something?

i'm the same way...i feel awkward when that moment comes where i'm just standing there staring at the person not knowing if their expecting more then me saying "thank you"

ally99 · May 23rd, 2011, 04:02 PM

We always wonder this same thing! Where does the "tipping for a service" stop? What about garbage collectors who drive all the way out to your house to pick up your trash? Or dog groomers who cut hair too? Fast-food places where they sometimes refill your drink for you? Tipping is weird, and I never know if I'm tipping the right people the right amount. Restaurants are easy. Do a good job, get 15-20%. Suck? Get nothing.

Apex · May 23rd, 2011, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackwidow

I get it, trust me I always tip, it just didn't sit right with me when she didn't even bother to give me my change back...she was EXPECTING a tip, which is what turned me off.

Ahh I see where you are at now Paulette! Yeah I don't like the people who EXPECT a given amount because they feel they deserve it. Give the money back and let me determine just how much you get.

rockNroll · May 23rd, 2011, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackwidow

I get it, trust me I always tip, it just didn't sit right with me when she didn't even bother to give me my change back...she was EXPECTING a tip, which is what turned me off.

I'm with you on this. I want all my change back and then I decide what to tip.

I just love it when the Pizza delivery driver gives me change. They always make sure to give me lots of ones (to use as tip).

Xoulrath · May 23rd, 2011, 04:09 PM

Typically, you tip a waitperson, because as others have said, they make less than minimum wage ($2.13/hr last I checked several years back). However, if the service sucks and it is directly attributable to the server, then tip as you feel he/she deserves.

I have left a place where a waitress was so horrible that I told her exactly how badly she messed everything up. This wasn't the kitchen's fault either. Add to that an over-the-top rude attitude and never bothering to check on us once after the orders were out, and yeah I told her exactly what was wrong, how she could have fixed it and how she should do it next time. To add to it, I made sure she knew she just lost a lot of money from the 15 or so people I was with. We were all eating after work. At the time, I (and most of the others I was with) worked delivering pizza and worked for tips. We left one tip: learn not to be a bitch.

Now, with that little rant over, I personally tip 30% because I worked for tips and know how it is. Even delivering pizza, where I made a bit more than minimum wage plus mileage, those tips made the difference between me continuing to deliver pizza for a while and looking for other employment.

As far as who I tip, well that can get tricky. Waitstaff and delivery drivers, yes. The waitstaff because they make little otherwise and most go out of their way to help you enjoy your experience. The delivery drivers because I am not using my gas or putting wear and tear on my vehicle and because I know the base pay is lower here as well and tips are easily 50% of one's income in this field.

The hairdresser or anyone else you may want to tip is really up to you. If you feel they deserve it, then by all means tip. But no one (servers and delivery drivers included) should EXPECT a tip, and they certainly shouldn't KEEP THE CHANGE without being told to do so.

Remember, a tip is generally a wage (waitstaff and to a lesser extent delivery drivers) or a bonus for better than advertised service. Keep that in mind and tip accordingly.

Liber · May 23rd, 2011, 04:42 PM

Fun fact: In Costa Rica, a 15% tip is included in your bill by law. They even leave extra tip options automatically calculated for you at the bottom the receipt: +10 +15 +20%. Yeh, service in Ticotown isn't particularly memorable.

petiteninja · May 23rd, 2011, 05:40 PM

this is a great topic, thanks for bringing it up.

everyone gets a tip in nyc. doormen, elevator guy, parking garage attendant, food delivery bicyclists, hairdressers, cleaning lady...everyone. i will over-tip for services that i can't do myself, like delivering heavy furniture or washing my windows. i tip my building superintendant heavily at christmas time and the same goes for the guys at the parking garage. i also tip an extra 10% to my food delivery guys because they remember who the best tippers are (plus i love bikes)...that very 'expectation' which you describe so clearly, especially here in new york where cash is king, creates the most transparent facades i've ever encountered.

and for those who feel 'entitled' to it can kiss off. what your hairdresser did was plain ignorant, petty and quite egotistic. geez, if you want $80 then ask for $80 and don't expect a tip...i would pay with a credit card next time or bring exact change.

Liber · May 24th, 2011, 06:33 AM

I'm going to play devil's advocate here,

but here's my problem with the logic of tipping.

The tipping of waiters at restaurants can be a dangerous circular argument. We tip them partially because they make less than minimum wage, and they make less than minimum wage because they make tips. This is false. A tip is merely a transmission of information in a very clear way. You do good, you get more, you do bad you get less/nothing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xoulrath

I have left a place where a waitress was so horrible that I told her exactly how badly she messed everything up. This wasn't the kitchen's fault either. Add to that an over-the-top rude attitude and never bothering to check on us once after the orders were out, and yeah I told her exactly what was wrong, how she could have fixed it and how she should do it next time. To add to it, I made sure she knew she just lost a lot of money from the 15 or so people I was with. We were all eating after work. At the time, I (and most of the others I was with) worked delivering pizza and worked for tips. We left one tip: learn not to be a bitch.

Now, with that little rant over, I personally tip 30% because I worked for tips and know how it is. Even delivering pizza, where I made a bit more than minimum wage plus mileage, those tips made the difference between me continuing to deliver pizza for a while and looking for other employment.

Remember, a tip is generally a wage (waitstaff and to a lesser extent delivery drivers) or a bonus for better than advertised service. Keep that in mind and tip accordingly.

You actually make some great points in your rant. Information is one of the most important assets anyone can possess. Telling someone not to be a bitch, is basically telling her she could be making more money if she did a better job. On the flip side, leaving a 30% tip, when the cultural norm is 15% for a satisfactory job, could be misleading and causing the person harm.

I don't tip the pizza guy very much, and as a result I'm usually the last guy to receive my pizza, and I'm ok with this. If I wanted him to come to me first I would tip a lot better. I don't do this to be an ass, I do it because I rarely ask for delivery, and when I do, it's because I have more important things to do than worry about the temperature of my pizza.

Yes, I've worked for minimum wage, and I've worked for less than minimum wage, so I empathize. However, I respect honesty more than pity, so I try to be as fair as I can with tips.

onetruevibe · May 24th, 2011, 08:16 AM

General comments on tipping that I may or may not agree with:

1. In most social contexts, the amount of the tip left is meant to say more about the person leaving the tip (pride, ego, etc.) than the quality of the service provided by the person receiving it.

Example 1: Dinner with colleagues. The tip is at least 20% regardless of the quality of the service provided.
Example 2: Dinner with wife and kids. The tip will more closely reflect the quality of the service provided.

2. Why should a business charge full price for their product while also expecting the patron to help pay their employee's wages?

3. If the patron is paying a portion of the employee's wages, technically the employee works for the patron and shouldn't get paid if they are not doing their job as well as expected.

4. Do other countries tip as we do in the US?

CThunder-blue · May 24th, 2011, 08:23 AM

You know what's really weird? North America is one of the few countries that you would tip a waiter or any other service person. Go to Europe or Asia. You don't tip the food staff there. They'll take your money, but they don't expect it. Of course they'll know you're from the US right away when you leave a tip. The flip side is that you may not always get the best customer service from these countries. I would say you might find 30% of the time you'll get subpar customer service, but the rest is the same service we get here.

I really think tipping has become abused. It went from being a compliment that you would receive for a job well done to something that you demand for your service, even if it was poor service. I bet no one during the Great Depression tipped unless they were extremely wealthy. People didn't expect tips back then, but God help you if you don't tip or leave a poor tip these days. I read a study on this and they found that Asians will tip according to the level of service. I think they hit it on the mark. I agree with Mark. I tip what I feel is complimentary to the service I receive. I normally tip 15% for average service, $.25 or nothing for poor service, and up to 25% for great service.

The one thing that irritates me, just like Paulette's situation, is when the waiter comes back with my change and I find they kept my coins. I don't care if it's 1 penny. I expect exact change. Those are the times when I don't leave a tip. It's basically thievery imo.

Liber · May 24th, 2011, 08:30 AM

In Japan, it can be an insult to try to tip someone.

Like I said before, in Costa Rica, a 15% is included in your bill by law, regardless of party size. What a crock.

Zombiphone · May 24th, 2011, 08:30 AM

Link to original page on YouTube.

Live2ride · May 24th, 2011, 09:26 AM

I am a waiter and I work at a country club. Let me tell you that this so called country club consists of a vast majority of people who think they are simply better than everyone else and rarely find the need to tip a decent amount no matter how good the service was. At this country club everyone gets charged to their account or debit/credit card so there is no physical money to deal with. It is immensely rare for me to ever receive a 20%+ tip on any bill. I have had a $200+ order with great service and been stiffed. That's one hell of a feeling when I spend 2-3 hours waiting hand and foot on 10 people at once to be left with nothing. I never mess with anyone's food and I never treat anyone unfairly. I am always less motivated to serve someone who I know will leave me no tip and I feel that's completely understandable. One thing I absolutely don't agree with is when we have major events with at least 150+ people and we have to (not optional) split our tips with all of the kitchen staff and dishwashers. The reason I don't agree with this is because they make significantly higher wages than the waiters/waitresses and they are literally stealing our money out from under us. I always tip when I go out to eat or get my haircut. I'm not so sure why a hair stylist would need a tip but I honestly don't know how much money they make, my haircuts cost $10 so normally I will leave a $2-$5 tip depending on how good a job they did. When I go out to eat I always leave a tip, and I tip according to service though the general rule is about 20-25%. I tip well because I know what they go through and I respect that. There has only been one time in which the waitress at a pizza hut forgot my simple request for a glass of water 8 times (literally). I left her chump change, maybe $.07 simply because I didn't want to carry the extra pennies around.

Cali619 · May 24th, 2011, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackwidow

I get it, trust me I always tip, it just didn't sit right with me when she didn't even bother to give me my change back...she was EXPECTING a tip, which is what turned me off.

Maybe the vibe she got off you was that it was cool to keep the change and gambled on it.

Live2ride · May 24th, 2011, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali619

Maybe the vibe she got off you was that it was cool to keep the change and gambled on it.

I would never keep the change, that's considered stealing in my book. Generally people will leave the change with the rest of the tip anyway.

Liber · May 24th, 2011, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Live2ride

I am a waiter and I work at a country club. Let me tell you that this so called country club consists of a vast majority of people who think they are simply better than everyone else and rarely find the need to tip a decent amount no matter how good the service was.

And that's why you are in college, so you don't have to do this anymore.

Live2ride · May 24th, 2011, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liber

And that's why you are in college, so you don't have to do this anymore.

Exactly

Xoulrath · May 24th, 2011, 02:53 PM

Chris, if you think someone goes to work to make $2.13 an hour to serve others, then you are out of your mind. They go for the incentive of the tip. Hopefully this leads them to serve their customers well, though obviously that isn't always the case.

Same deal for any type of delivery driver. If you really believe they go to work to be a servant to others for $7 dollars an hour, you are out of your mind. The gas cost alone for a typical hour of delivery when I was doing it years ago was almost $3/hr. The gas cost now? More than likely at least double, as that $3 figure goes all the way back to 1.50/gallon gas.

So basically you are saying to me that these people (myself included years ago) go to work to make NO money? You are an economist (or have a Masters in Economy iIrc). What incentive is there for anyone in these fields to go to work? There is none, unless there is a TIP.

I'm not saying I agree with the premise. I would prefer to be charged a bit more for the meal and have the waitstaff paid hourly like most other workers. It just isn't the case. Like I said, if the service sucks, I let the person know and I usually don't tip at all. As far as the 30%, well that just balances out their earnings for the evening against those that tip poorly or not at all.

Havok · May 24th, 2011, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackwidow

This weekend I went to get my hair done for a wedding I attended, and the total for my hair came out to 75 bucks, so naturally I gave the hair dresser 80$ and she didn't give me my 5$ back. now I understand that people tip hair dressers and such, but why? If i'm going to a person for hair cutting and their fee is 20$ why am I expected to tip them? They are not doing anything above and beyond what their getting paid to do.

When I go to a restaurant, i go to eat...I tip the server cuz she/he did gave me added service by bringing the food to me, so I understand why a tip would be necessary in this circumstance.

What do you guys think? Are some professions spoiled to the point where they think a tip is a requirement?

What you should have done was make an annoyed noise then said "well i was going to give you a 20 for a tip but since you only want 5 that will work." and waled out.
i am generally an over tipper, mostly because i know how much dealing with the public sucks ass and i feel bad for them, but to just keep it pisses me off, the other is when they give you a **** ton of singles back as change, either because they are worried you wont have any to tip with or to change out all the singles they got for big bills, both reasons annoy the piss out of me.

Liber · May 25th, 2011, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xoulrath

Chris, if you think someone goes to work to make $2.13 an hour to serve others, then you are out of your mind. They go for the incentive of the tip. Hopefully this leads them to serve their customers well, though obviously that isn't always the case.

Same deal for any type of delivery driver. If you really believe they go to work to be a servant to others for $7 dollars an hour, you are out of your mind. The gas cost alone for a typical hour of delivery when I was doing it years ago was almost $3/hr. The gas cost now? More than likely at least double, as that $3 figure goes all the way back to 1.50/gallon gas.

So basically you are saying to me that these people (myself included years ago) go to work to make NO money? You are an economist (or have a Masters in Economy iIrc). What incentive is there for anyone in these fields to go to work? There is none, unless there is a TIP.

I'm not saying I agree with the premise. I would prefer to be charged a bit more for the meal and have the waitstaff paid hourly like most other workers. It just isn't the case. Like I said, if the service sucks, I let the person know and I usually don't tip at all. As far as the 30%, well that just balances out their earnings for the evening against those that tip poorly or not at all.

Long Response, feel free to ignore:

I doubt you were only delivering one pizza per hour, on average. Everyone works for something, so if you are working for nothing, you are either an idiot or you are about to quit/start looking for another job. I put $70 of gas in my tank every week just to get to my office and back, which means I am putting a noticeable amount of an entire day's pay just to earn that paycheck.

I think people will go to a restaurant and serve others for any amount of money that is: A) more than they would get for not working, and B) more than they would get working at any other job they could get.

For instance, Summer 2009, when the job market was the pits, I worked at wal-mart as a sales associate, and I had a BA at the time. The shocking thing is I had 2 co-workers, one with an MBA and one a CPA, working Part-Time. They were the lucky ones. You don't know the number of people that I would see waiting in line at HR at that store to fill out an application in a $600+ suit. I was lucky because I had applied for a job at that store almost 9 months before I got it.

Thankfully I didn't have to support anyone but myself, but man I felt bad for some people there and Wal-Mart doesn't allow you to accept tips. (I worked in the Garden Center, which requires a ton of interaction with customers in order to make sales, moreso than any other department I would say, so tips were commonly offered for helping to lug that 300lb BBQ pit out to the minivan.) Believe it or not, Wal-Mart pays pretty well, and promotions are common for those who deserve them(I was offered a management position which I turned down, and another promotion was given to a hard working co-worker and friend.)

I understand what you are saying, and with gas as high as it is, it really is like the wage paid to unskilled service providers is there to cover your costs to get to/from work. As far as non-club restaurants go, It seems to me almost as if the restaurant is providing a venue for servers to earn something of a "commission". They are covering the transaction costs for your labor, ie gas, for you to serve their food. Any profits you make from your labor are based on performance, theoretically. It's kinda like a strip bar, where strippers pay the owner of the venue so they earn tips from their performance.
____________________________

tl;dr: tips are a cultural thing just as much as they are an economic phenomenon. I'll just say that I don't think tips are given for the same reason across all professions. Why do you tip curbside baggage handlers at the airport? Is it the same reason you tip a waiter/waitress?

bdavison · May 25th, 2011, 08:03 AM

Ive been to resturants where the waitress should have tipped me for visiting her lousy establishment.

Wheres my tip?

Tips are not mandatory, and if you have a job where you rely on tips, dont complain when you dont get one. You were willing to gamble with your paycheck, dont get ticked when you lose.

A tip is a reward, not a mandated subsidy.

bdavison · May 25th, 2011, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Havok

What you should have done was make an annoyed noise then said "well i was going to give you a 20 for a tip but since you only want 5 that will work." and waled out.
i am generally an over tipper, mostly because i know how much dealing with the public sucks ass and i feel bad for them, but to just keep it pisses me off, the other is when they give you a **** ton of singles back as change, either because they are worried you wont have any to tip with or to change out all the singles they got for big bills, both reasons annoy the piss out of me.

Im the opposite, i prefer the ones...its the waitresses that bring you back a $10 bill thinking "if i dont bring him change, he will leave it all" that drive me nuts.
Dont bring me change, and you probably wont get anything.

Liber · May 25th, 2011, 08:37 AM

TBH, if someone tipped me because they pitied me, I would be pissed. Sadly, there are too many people out there that don't value themselves all that much and will take money from anyone for anything or nothing.

CynicalC · May 25th, 2011, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liber

In Japan, it can be an insult to try to tip someone.

Like I said before, in Costa Rica, a 15% is included in your bill by law, regardless of party size. What a crock.

I don't think they'd be offended if they knew it's part of western culture. I'm sure they're used to it unless they're out in the country somewhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zombiphone

Link to original page on YouTube.

Hah I thought of that. Although he's wrong on the minimum wage part.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Live2ride

I am a waiter and I work at a country club. Let me tell you that this so called country club consists of a vast majority of people who think they are simply better than everyone else and rarely find the need to tip a decent amount no matter how good the service was. At this country club everyone gets charged to their account or debit/credit card so there is no physical money to deal with. It is immensely rare for me to ever receive a 20%+ tip on any bill. I have had a $200+ order with great service and been stiffed. That's one hell of a feeling when I spend 2-3 hours waiting hand and foot on 10 people at once to be left with nothing. I never mess with anyone's food and I never treat anyone unfairly. I am always less motivated to serve someone who I know will leave me no tip and I feel that's completely understandable. One thing I absolutely don't agree with is when we have major events with at least 150+ people and we have to (not optional) split our tips with all of the kitchen staff and dishwashers. The reason I don't agree with this is because they make significantly higher wages than the waiters/waitresses and they are literally stealing our money out from under us. I always tip when I go out to eat or get my haircut. I'm not so sure why a hair stylist would need a tip but I honestly don't know how much money they make, my haircuts cost $10 so normally I will leave a $2-$5 tip depending on how good a job they did. When I go out to eat I always leave a tip, and I tip according to service though the general rule is about 20-25%. I tip well because I know what they go through and I respect that. There has only been one time in which the waitress at a pizza hut forgot my simple request for a glass of water 8 times (literally). I left her chump change, maybe $.07 simply because I didn't want to carry the extra pennies around.

First off, paragraphs are your friend.

Now I don't know who told you this, but 20-25% is not the norm. 15-20% is normal. Anything over 20% being for extremely good service. Judging by your comments like "I never mess with anyone's food" I can see why you never get tipped any more than the minimum socially acceptable. Is not messing with peoples food what you consider to be exceptional service? Sounds like a real high class country club.

Also you contradict "I never treat anyone unfairly" with "I am always less motivated to serve someone who I know will leave me no tip". I'd love to hear what you base that judgement on.

bdavison · May 25th, 2011, 09:44 AM

I know in France they consider it an insult to give them a tip. The reason is because they view themselves as professionals, and when you give them a tip they take it as you are saying they are just a lowly serf, and deserving of your simpathy. Like tossing a quarter in the cup of a hobo kinda thing.

Most of my friends from overseas cant believe how much we tip over here in the US.

drowe531 · May 25th, 2011, 09:58 AM

I was surprised the first time I got a drink when I was in England. I'm so used to giving a dollar when I get a beer, but I was out with some people from england and no one else tipped. I asked why and they said it wasn't customary or normal there to tip. I also believe their bartenders/wait staff actually made a reasonable wage.

Xoulrath · May 25th, 2011, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liber

I doubt you were only delivering one pizza per hour, on average.

I took between 3-4 runs (deliveries) per hour, when the store was busy. I worked at a busy store so I was almost always on the road. I earned what came out to $3/run. So I was making between $9 and $12 an hour from TIPS and MILEAGE. Mileage then was $.80/run, so I averaged $2 plus the loose change left over from an order in tips. Those over-tippers (what you called me) allowed me to make a decent wage delivering. Without the $5 tips to offset the $0 non-tippers, I wouldn't have delivered pizza very long.

Again, I went to work for the incentive of the tip.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liber

Everyone works for something, so if you are working for nothing, you are either an idiot or you are about to quit/start looking for another job.

Yes, everyone does work for something; in this case, tips. You don't have to tip well, or at all. It isn't my business. But don't dilute the issue by saying someone is simply looking for something to do. You can make more sitting on your ass collecting handouts from the government than a waiter/waitress at $2.13/hr. The TIPS are why they go to work at those jobs in the first place.

Do the math: (40 hours)(2.13)=(85.20)(4 Weeks)=340.80

So you are telling me that a sane person is willing to go to work and basically be somebody's bitch for 40 hours a week, to bring home a whopping $340 a MONTH? At least delivering pizza, I was paid $6.75/hr. Higher than most places which were paying $5.75 per hour (at the time).

So assuming no tips, and using the standard from around 2004 (the last time my wife or I were delivering), a driver could expect (40 hours)(5.75)=230, so $230/week or $920/4 weeks. Factor in about $50 in gas a WEEK, oil changes at $15-20 a MONTH, brake wear leading to faster replacement, tires wearing faster needing to be replaced more often, and of course actual commercial insurance if you want to be covered while you work, and you just spent a large portion of that monthly income just MAINTAINING your vehicle.

If there are no deliveries, you don't get to stand around all day and get paid for doing nothing while saving mileage on your car. They start cutting drivers. You get sent home and you don't make anything.

Delivery drivers deliver because they know the tips will balance out at the end of the shift and they will make enough money to make it worth the costs of using a vehicle to deliver.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liber

I think people will go to a restaurant and serve others for any amount of money that is: A) more than they would get for not working, and B) more than they would get working at any other job they could get.

Again, people can make more on welfare than a server who doesn't get tips.

I guess one could make the argument that someone living in the city within walking distance from work might benefit from simply making $2.13/hr sans tips. Anyone smart (or lazy) would get government assistance and be better off.

P.S. From your earlier post you said you didn't use delivery much, but when you did you had better things to do than worry about the temperature of your pizza. You tip someone for doing something you could do yourself. You are tipping that driver for using his or her car to bring you your pizza while you continue to do whatever it is you were doing. The cost of the pizza only pays for the pizza, not the delivery.

Liber · May 26th, 2011, 08:17 AM

I'm not going to bother quoting. One of the things I hate about discussing this stuff on forums, is so much gets miscommunicated. First off, let me say that whenever I say "you" I don't mean you personally but you generally, as in you me an everyone. I'm well aware my life experiences are different from yours and I don't presume to know everything about everything.

Also, let me say, that I actually agree with you. Tips are part of an incentive system we have in this country that reward people based on performance, and this system works fairly well.

I never said you were an over-tipper. I was using your example as my own example of how tipping different amounts sends signals to the person receiving the tip. It's your money, you can do with it as you please.

What I was getting at is that if the waitress sucks and I give her a 15% tip just because I know she makes less than minimum wage, then that tells her that she did a satisfactory job. It encourages her to perform poorly for the next customer, and so on and so on. Eventually she ends up getting canned because of all the complaints the manager gets by people not so polite. I did her a dis-service because in my pity for her, she will actually lose income in the long run.
______________

You're right. You can make more sitting on your ass getting checks from the government. I said:

I think people will go to a restaurant and serve others for any amount of money that is: A) more than they would get for not working, and B) more than they would get working at any other job they could get.

But yes, I think lots of people will work for $340 a month, but I doubt anyone would really consider making a career out of it. Why? because people satisfied with making $340 a month are high school students who need gas money, college students who need a little extra dough for books or any number of other groups that are pretty much provided for by supplemental income and just want to make a few extra bucks.

Again, you are totally correct and I was never disagreeing with you. No one thinks on a blow for blow basis, they think in averages.
__________

I tip the pizza delivery guy not because he brought me my pizza, I tip him on how he performed his job. Did he get there within 30 minutes of when I was told my pizza would be delivered? If so, I consider it satisfactory and he will probably get 2$ and change for my 10$ pizza. If i have to wait more than an hour past when I was told my pizza would be delivered, I'm getting pissed. I live in a small town, and if it takes you more than an hour to deliver 5 pizzas to different customers, my patience wears thin even though I know I'm last.
___________

Xoul, you are obviously well read, and though I would love to argue with you, I really have nothing to argue with you about, as we are pretty much in agreement.

One of the cornerstones of the culture in the USA is capitalism. Another important thing is that we live in a meritocracy. We believe it is fair and just to reward people for doing a good job and penalize them for doing a bad one. Tipping is a good system for rewarding good work and penalizing bad work. Some people make pretty good money serving at restaurants. At one of the pricier places in town, it's not uncommon for my party of 4 to have a bill well over $200, if not $300. If the waitress did just a satisfactory job, she made $~40 on my table alone. She's making that on top of her full-time day job. That's pretty good money for someone without a college education.

What I can't stand is when a restaurant requires places to pool tips, mainly because I was always the kid that got stuck with the idiots in school projects and I wound up doing all the work

For someone to take a tip without you giving it to them is theft. They will lose my business and I will gladly go around telling people about my experience.

Live2ride · May 26th, 2011, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CynicalC

First off, paragraphs are your friend.

Now I don't know who told you this, but 20-25% is not the norm. 15-20% is normal. Anything over 20% being for extremely good service. Judging by your comments like "I never mess with anyone's food" I can see why you never get tipped any more than the minimum socially acceptable. Is not messing with peoples food what you consider to be exceptional service? Sounds like a real high class country club.

Also you contradict "I never treat anyone unfairly" with "I am always less motivated to serve someone who I know will leave me no tip". I'd love to hear what you base that judgement on.

-Honestly I don't care.

-You live in a different area...your normal tip may be different from mine.

-That comment simply makes no sense.

-The only person bringing up this wild accusation is you...and come on, I think you know that it was simply a poor assumption based on absolutely no evidence to back yourself up. I never said that not messing with someones food translates to exceptional service; obviously it doesn't.

-Yup, the place is the furthest from high class I have ever seen as far as country clubs go.

-The fact that I may be less motivated doesn't relate to treating someone unfairly. Just because you had a bad day doesn't mean you will treat everyone else like crap does it? Not to me. So it doesn't effect how fairly you treat someone.

Liber · May 26th, 2011, 09:33 AM

IIRC, NoVA/Southern MD/DC is among the richest regions in the country, if not the richest in terms of income/per capita. This holds true especially as of late, since Federal government employment/spending has increased throughout the recession, and so many recipients of that spending, non-profits and contractors, are based in NoVA and Southern MD. It wouldn't surprise me if the average tip was 20-30%.

I guess the people at Ruby Tuesday and Chilis in Fairfax hated me, I always tipped ~15%...

May 23rd, 2011, 01:01 PM	#1
Blackwidow ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Paulette Location: . Join Date: Jun 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.	tipping This weekend I went to get my hair done for a wedding I attended, and the total for my hair came out to 75 bucks, so naturally I gave the hair dresser 80$ and she didn't give me my 5$ back. now I understand that people tip hair dressers and such, but why? If i'm going to a person for hair cutting and their fee is 20$ why am I expected to tip them? They are not doing anything above and beyond what their getting paid to do. When I go to a restaurant, i go to eat...I tip the server cuz she/he did gave me added service by bringing the food to me, so I understand why a tip would be necessary in this circumstance. What do you guys think? Are some professions spoiled to the point where they think a tip is a requirement? __________________________________________________ sometimes I aim to please, but mostly I shoot to kill

May 23rd, 2011, 01:22 PM	#3
Apex Livin' the Minimoto Life Name: Mark Location: Riding around in TX Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2022 Honda Navi, 2018 Z-125 Pro Posts: A lot.	Paulette, technically isn't it the waiters job to take your order and bring your food to you? That is what they are getting paid for. So by that reasoning, you shouldn't need to tip them. I view it this way: I am paying to get my hair cut. Simple as that. Now, as with any profession, there are people who do a good job at it and there are people who are hack jobs. If you do a good job at it, I will reward you with a tip (which encourages the person cutting my hair to continue to do a good job). If you suck, you won't get anything. Same with a waiter. If my glass is always full, the orders are correct, you check the table frequently, then you get a good tip. If I have to track you down to get a refill or if you severely screw up my order, you don't get a tip or get a piss poor one. I can get several different levels of service, I reward those who go above and beyond. I figured that is a fair way of thinking. __________________________________________________ --- My IG Page --- My FB page! --- 2022 Honda Navi && 2018 Z-125 Pro

May 23rd, 2011, 01:34 PM	#6
CC Cowboy ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Whodat Location: Ware Is.,MA Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): I pass the wind! Posts: A lot. MOTM - Mar '13, Jun '14	Service jobs! If the service was good, tip. It will pay off next time. __________________________________________________ If everything seems under control; you're just not going fast enough!

May 23rd, 2011, 01:49 PM	#10
Blackwidow ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Paulette Location: . Join Date: Jun 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.	I get it, trust me I always tip, it just didn't sit right with me when she didn't even bother to give me my change back...she was EXPECTING a tip, which is what turned me off. Its one thing when you want to give someone a tip, and its another when its expected. If she had given my change back I might have given her a 20, but since she didn't even bother giving my change, I was like screw that. the difference between waiters and hairdressers is this...I go to a restaurant to eat, so i'm paying for the food the bill includes overhead fees and all that good stuff to keep the restaurant open, I tip the waiter cuz its an added service, I can always go to Mcdonalds if I don't want to be served my food...I go to a hairdresser to get my hair done...and the hairdresser is charging me the fee for cutting, dying, styling my hair (the service) and i'm sure it doesn't cost her 20 dollars for a pair of scissors or 80$ for hair dye, so her overhead fees and her own fee are included. This specific lady owns her own shop, so its not like she's renting a chair. her fee is what it costs for product and keep the business going. __________________________________________________ sometimes I aim to please, but mostly I shoot to kill

May 23rd, 2011, 04:02 PM	#12
ally99 Ninja chick Name: Allyson Location: Athens, GA Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 4 MOTM - Dec '13, Feb '15	We always wonder this same thing! Where does the "tipping for a service" stop? What about garbage collectors who drive all the way out to your house to pick up your trash? Or dog groomers who cut hair too? Fast-food places where they sometimes refill your drink for you? Tipping is weird, and I never know if I'm tipping the right people the right amount. Restaurants are easy. Do a good job, get 15-20%. Suck? Get nothing. __________________________________________________ Sometimes it's the journey that teaches you a lot about your destination. ~Drake Check out my Appalachian Trail journal, 2015! Postwhores are COOL! ~Allyson

May 23rd, 2011, 01:16 PM	#2
Liber ninjette.org sage Name: Chris Location: Arkansas Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): EX250J Posts: 511	I got into this SAME argument 2 weeks ago with a female friend about the woman that cuts my hair. Simplified conversation: Me: "Why should I tip her?" Her: "She has to pay part of the rent for her shop"(she shares the shop with 4 other women) Me: "That's just overhead, if she needs to cover the costs she should charge more" Her: "that's not how it's done, you are supposed to tip her, it's just courtesy" Me: "huh?" NOW, I understand tipping if the hairdresser/barber is forced to charge a set rate by the shop. I've been to the places where they have several grades of skill. Each grade cost a different, set amount. A tip is warranted, imho, if the dresser/barber does an exceptionally good job for their skill level assigned by the shop. However, when these people basically work for themselves and set their own prices, a tip is NOT warranted, except maybe in very unique situations, for which they do not have a standard price for. ie: correcting an at-home hair dyeing session gone horribly wrong.

May 23rd, 2011, 01:25 PM	#4
CmichRider ninjette.org member Name: Jacob Location: Michigan Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2000 Ninja 250 Posts: 227	^^^^^Got to it before me, pretty much took the words out of my post. I suppose you could say the same thing about servers though, that it's their job to bring you your food, so why tip them for doing their job. I usually always tip though, but they only get something worthwhile when they go out of their way to do an exceptional job. The same for barbers/haircutters, the guy at the car wash, ect. What really gets me is when they include gratuity in the price of the service or food..

May 23rd, 2011, 01:25 PM	#5
Ambar ninjette.org member Name: Sharon Location: Torrance CA Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): green ninja 250 Posts: 69	Unless the hairdresser is leasing the station, they usually only see between 45-50%, I believe, of what ever the cost of the service is. Tips are not required but they sure go a long way towards making the stylist want to go the "extra mile" to ensure you are satisfied and will come back. With regards to restaurants, I don't know if has changed but a lot of them pay quite a bit below minimum wage. They can do this because the server is expected to make up the difference in tips. In addition, once the night has ended, for a lot of places, the waitperson is expected to then give a tip to the person that busses the table and to the bartender. I guess they don't have to, but I'll bet it would make a difference as to who's table gets cleaned first and who's drinks get made quickly. There again, tipping is not a requirement, but service people have great memories when it comes to who tips...and who doesn't.

May 23rd, 2011, 01:35 PM	#7
CynicalC ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Colin Location: Bay Area Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): '96 EX250 Posts: A lot.	I never know what to do. Obviously you tip at a restaurant depending on the level of service, but that's because wait staff can make less than minimum wage and tipping compensates for that. I've always tipped my barbers too, and food delivery people. But now what about when you get curbside pickup at a restaurant, are you supposed to tip them too? What about service people who come to fix your cable or something?

May 23rd, 2011, 01:40 PM	#8
bdavison Wartown, USA Name: Bryan Location: Warner Robins, GA Join Date: Nov 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R SE, 2007 Ninja 650R, and assorted other bikes Posts: A lot.	I tip based on the services rendered....as service goes up....so does the tip. Ive gone to places where the service from a waitress was so good, I left her a $20, and ive been to places where the service was so pathetic i left em a single penny. Tips are not mandatory, and are a way of expressing thanks for a job well done. If they dont perform, no tip is warrented. As far as haircuts go, most of these "chop shops" that call themselves hair salons are nothing more than high school dropouts with a certificate, who slap you down in a chair, and snip away, brush the shavings down the back of your shirt, and then stand there with their hand out. My suggestion.... Search around for a hair salon that makes you want to tip, and then do so.

May 23rd, 2011, 01:43 PM	#9
bob706 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Sean Location: Mary Esther, FL Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250 1998 HD Road King Posts: A lot.	I have always tipped the barbers I have been to but if one of them didn't give back the change because they expect a tip, I would never go back to them.

May 23rd, 2011, 04:09 PM	#15
Xoulrath ninjette.org sage Name: T Location: U.S. Join Date: May 2010 Motorcycle(s): Current: '11 ZX-6R; Previous: '09 Ninjette; '08 ZX-6R (Ex-Wife '09 TU250X) Posts: 981	Typically, you tip a waitperson, because as others have said, they make less than minimum wage ($2.13/hr last I checked several years back). However, if the service sucks and it is directly attributable to the server, then tip as you feel he/she deserves. I have left a place where a waitress was so horrible that I told her exactly how badly she messed everything up. This wasn't the kitchen's fault either. Add to that an over-the-top rude attitude and never bothering to check on us once after the orders were out, and yeah I told her exactly what was wrong, how she could have fixed it and how she should do it next time. To add to it, I made sure she knew she just lost a lot of money from the 15 or so people I was with. We were all eating after work. At the time, I (and most of the others I was with) worked delivering pizza and worked for tips. We left one tip: learn not to be a bitch. Now, with that little rant over, I personally tip 30% because I worked for tips and know how it is. Even delivering pizza, where I made a bit more than minimum wage plus mileage, those tips made the difference between me continuing to deliver pizza for a while and looking for other employment. As far as who I tip, well that can get tricky. Waitstaff and delivery drivers, yes. The waitstaff because they make little otherwise and most go out of their way to help you enjoy your experience. The delivery drivers because I am not using my gas or putting wear and tear on my vehicle and because I know the base pay is lower here as well and tips are easily 50% of one's income in this field. The hairdresser or anyone else you may want to tip is really up to you. If you feel they deserve it, then by all means tip. But no one (servers and delivery drivers included) should EXPECT a tip, and they certainly shouldn't KEEP THE CHANGE without being told to do so. Remember, a tip is generally a wage (waitstaff and to a lesser extent delivery drivers) or a bonus for better than advertised service. Keep that in mind and tip accordingly. __________________________________________________ R.I.P EthioKnight (Alex)

May 23rd, 2011, 04:42 PM	#16
Liber ninjette.org sage Name: Chris Location: Arkansas Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): EX250J Posts: 511	Fun fact: In Costa Rica, a 15% tip is included in your bill by law. They even leave extra tip options automatically calculated for you at the bottom the receipt: +10 +15 +20%. Yeh, service in Ticotown isn't particularly memorable.

May 23rd, 2011, 05:40 PM	#17
petiteninja ninjette.org member Name: LMG Location: nyc Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): '09 Ninja EX250J Posts: 177	this is a great topic, thanks for bringing it up. everyone gets a tip in nyc. doormen, elevator guy, parking garage attendant, food delivery bicyclists, hairdressers, cleaning lady...everyone. i will over-tip for services that i can't do myself, like delivering heavy furniture or washing my windows. i tip my building superintendant heavily at christmas time and the same goes for the guys at the parking garage. i also tip an extra 10% to my food delivery guys because they remember who the best tippers are (plus i love bikes)...that very 'expectation' which you describe so clearly, especially here in new york where cash is king, creates the most transparent facades i've ever encountered. and for those who feel 'entitled' to it can kiss off. what your hairdresser did was plain ignorant, petty and quite egotistic. geez, if you want $80 then ask for $80 and don't expect a tip...i would pay with a credit card next time or bring exact change.

May 24th, 2011, 08:16 AM	#19
onetruevibe Love Rival Name: Brian Location: Western PA Join Date: Jun 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250r Posts: 449	General comments on tipping that I may or may not agree with: 1. In most social contexts, the amount of the tip left is meant to say more about the person leaving the tip (pride, ego, etc.) than the quality of the service provided by the person receiving it. Example 1: Dinner with colleagues. The tip is at least 20% regardless of the quality of the service provided. Example 2: Dinner with wife and kids. The tip will more closely reflect the quality of the service provided. 2. Why should a business charge full price for their product while also expecting the patron to help pay their employee's wages? 3. If the patron is paying a portion of the employee's wages, technically the employee works for the patron and shouldn't get paid if they are not doing their job as well as expected. 4. Do other countries tip as we do in the US? __________________________________________________ “Comparison is the thief of joy.” -Dwight Edwards

May 24th, 2011, 08:23 AM	#20
CThunder-blue ModMy250.com Name: Tri Location: St, Louis Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R, 2005 R6 Posts: A lot.	You know what's really weird? North America is one of the few countries that you would tip a waiter or any other service person. Go to Europe or Asia. You don't tip the food staff there. They'll take your money, but they don't expect it. Of course they'll know you're from the US right away when you leave a tip. The flip side is that you may not always get the best customer service from these countries. I would say you might find 30% of the time you'll get subpar customer service, but the rest is the same service we get here. I really think tipping has become abused. It went from being a compliment that you would receive for a job well done to something that you demand for your service, even if it was poor service. I bet no one during the Great Depression tipped unless they were extremely wealthy. People didn't expect tips back then, but God help you if you don't tip or leave a poor tip these days. I read a study on this and they found that Asians will tip according to the level of service. I think they hit it on the mark. I agree with Mark. I tip what I feel is complimentary to the service I receive. I normally tip 15% for average service, $.25 or nothing for poor service, and up to 25% for great service. The one thing that irritates me, just like Paulette's situation, is when the waiter comes back with my change and I find they kept my coins. I don't care if it's 1 penny. I expect exact change. Those are the times when I don't leave a tip. It's basically thievery imo. __________________________________________________ The www.ModMy250.com guy

May 24th, 2011, 08:30 AM	#21
Liber ninjette.org sage Name: Chris Location: Arkansas Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): EX250J Posts: 511	In Japan, it can be an insult to try to tip someone. Like I said before, in Costa Rica, a 15% is included in your bill by law, regardless of party size. What a crock.

May 24th, 2011, 08:30 AM	#22
Zombiphone CVMA/AFM #72 Name: Tiffani Location: Los Angeles, Ca Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250r (Racebike), 2015 FZ-07(Tourer), 2001 KX65(LOL bike) Posts: A lot.	Link to original page on YouTube.

May 24th, 2011, 09:26 AM	#23
Live2ride ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Cody Location: NoVa Join Date: Jan 2011 Motorcycle(s): 06 yzf r6r previously: 09 ninja 250r, black 07 zx6r Posts: A lot.	I am a waiter and I work at a country club. Let me tell you that this so called country club consists of a vast majority of people who think they are simply better than everyone else and rarely find the need to tip a decent amount no matter how good the service was. At this country club everyone gets charged to their account or debit/credit card so there is no physical money to deal with. It is immensely rare for me to ever receive a 20%+ tip on any bill. I have had a $200+ order with great service and been stiffed. That's one hell of a feeling when I spend 2-3 hours waiting hand and foot on 10 people at once to be left with nothing. I never mess with anyone's food and I never treat anyone unfairly. I am always less motivated to serve someone who I know will leave me no tip and I feel that's completely understandable. One thing I absolutely don't agree with is when we have major events with at least 150+ people and we have to (not optional) split our tips with all of the kitchen staff and dishwashers. The reason I don't agree with this is because they make significantly higher wages than the waiters/waitresses and they are literally stealing our money out from under us. I always tip when I go out to eat or get my haircut. I'm not so sure why a hair stylist would need a tip but I honestly don't know how much money they make, my haircuts cost $10 so normally I will leave a $2-$5 tip depending on how good a job they did. When I go out to eat I always leave a tip, and I tip according to service though the general rule is about 20-25%. I tip well because I know what they go through and I respect that. There has only been one time in which the waitress at a pizza hut forgot my simple request for a glass of water 8 times (literally). I left her chump change, maybe $.07 simply because I didn't want to carry the extra pennies around. __________________________________________________

May 24th, 2011, 02:53 PM	#28
Xoulrath ninjette.org sage Name: T Location: U.S. Join Date: May 2010 Motorcycle(s): Current: '11 ZX-6R; Previous: '09 Ninjette; '08 ZX-6R (Ex-Wife '09 TU250X) Posts: 981	Chris, if you think someone goes to work to make $2.13 an hour to serve others, then you are out of your mind. They go for the incentive of the tip. Hopefully this leads them to serve their customers well, though obviously that isn't always the case. Same deal for any type of delivery driver. If you really believe they go to work to be a servant to others for $7 dollars an hour, you are out of your mind. The gas cost alone for a typical hour of delivery when I was doing it years ago was almost $3/hr. The gas cost now? More than likely at least double, as that $3 figure goes all the way back to 1.50/gallon gas. So basically you are saying to me that these people (myself included years ago) go to work to make NO money? You are an economist (or have a Masters in Economy iIrc). What incentive is there for anyone in these fields to go to work? There is none, unless there is a TIP. I'm not saying I agree with the premise. I would prefer to be charged a bit more for the meal and have the waitstaff paid hourly like most other workers. It just isn't the case. Like I said, if the service sucks, I let the person know and I usually don't tip at all. As far as the 30%, well that just balances out their earnings for the evening against those that tip poorly or not at all. __________________________________________________ R.I.P EthioKnight (Alex)

May 25th, 2011, 08:03 AM	#31
bdavison Wartown, USA Name: Bryan Location: Warner Robins, GA Join Date: Nov 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R SE, 2007 Ninja 650R, and assorted other bikes Posts: A lot.	Ive been to resturants where the waitress should have tipped me for visiting her lousy establishment. Wheres my tip? Tips are not mandatory, and if you have a job where you rely on tips, dont complain when you dont get one. You were willing to gamble with your paycheck, dont get ticked when you lose. A tip is a reward, not a mandated subsidy.

May 25th, 2011, 08:37 AM	#33
Liber ninjette.org sage Name: Chris Location: Arkansas Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): EX250J Posts: 511	TBH, if someone tipped me because they pitied me, I would be pissed. Sadly, there are too many people out there that don't value themselves all that much and will take money from anyone for anything or nothing.

May 25th, 2011, 09:44 AM	#35
bdavison Wartown, USA Name: Bryan Location: Warner Robins, GA Join Date: Nov 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R SE, 2007 Ninja 650R, and assorted other bikes Posts: A lot.	I know in France they consider it an insult to give them a tip. The reason is because they view themselves as professionals, and when you give them a tip they take it as you are saying they are just a lowly serf, and deserving of your simpathy. Like tossing a quarter in the cup of a hobo kinda thing. Most of my friends from overseas cant believe how much we tip over here in the US.

May 25th, 2011, 09:58 AM	#36
drowe531 ninjette.org guru Name: David Location: Burlington, MA Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2004 Ninja 250 (sold); 2008 Plasma Blue Ninja 250 Posts: 364	I was surprised the first time I got a drink when I was in England. I'm so used to giving a dollar when I get a beer, but I was out with some people from england and no one else tipped. I asked why and they said it wasn't customary or normal there to tip. I also believe their bartenders/wait staff actually made a reasonable wage.

May 26th, 2011, 08:17 AM	#38
Liber ninjette.org sage Name: Chris Location: Arkansas Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): EX250J Posts: 511	I'm not going to bother quoting. One of the things I hate about discussing this stuff on forums, is so much gets miscommunicated. First off, let me say that whenever I say "you" I don't mean you personally but you generally, as in you me an everyone. I'm well aware my life experiences are different from yours and I don't presume to know everything about everything. Also, let me say, that I actually agree with you. Tips are part of an incentive system we have in this country that reward people based on performance, and this system works fairly well. I never said you were an over-tipper. I was using your example as my own example of how tipping different amounts sends signals to the person receiving the tip. It's your money, you can do with it as you please. What I was getting at is that if the waitress sucks and I give her a 15% tip just because I know she makes less than minimum wage, then that tells her that she did a satisfactory job. It encourages her to perform poorly for the next customer, and so on and so on. Eventually she ends up getting canned because of all the complaints the manager gets by people not so polite. I did her a dis-service because in my pity for her, she will actually lose income in the long run. ______________ You're right. You can make more sitting on your ass getting checks from the government. I said: I think people will go to a restaurant and serve others for any amount of money that is: A) more than they would get for not working, and B) more than they would get working at any other job they could get. But yes, I think lots of people will work for $340 a month, but I doubt anyone would really consider making a career out of it. Why? because people satisfied with making $340 a month are high school students who need gas money, college students who need a little extra dough for books or any number of other groups that are pretty much provided for by supplemental income and just want to make a few extra bucks. Again, you are totally correct and I was never disagreeing with you. No one thinks on a blow for blow basis, they think in averages. __________ I tip the pizza delivery guy not because he brought me my pizza, I tip him on how he performed his job. Did he get there within 30 minutes of when I was told my pizza would be delivered? If so, I consider it satisfactory and he will probably get 2$ and change for my 10$ pizza. If i have to wait more than an hour past when I was told my pizza would be delivered, I'm getting pissed. I live in a small town, and if it takes you more than an hour to deliver 5 pizzas to different customers, my patience wears thin even though I know I'm last. ___________ Xoul, you are obviously well read, and though I would love to argue with you, I really have nothing to argue with you about, as we are pretty much in agreement. One of the cornerstones of the culture in the USA is capitalism. Another important thing is that we live in a meritocracy. We believe it is fair and just to reward people for doing a good job and penalize them for doing a bad one. Tipping is a good system for rewarding good work and penalizing bad work. Some people make pretty good money serving at restaurants. At one of the pricier places in town, it's not uncommon for my party of 4 to have a bill well over $200, if not $300. If the waitress did just a satisfactory job, she made $~40 on my table alone. She's making that on top of her full-time day job. That's pretty good money for someone without a college education. What I can't stand is when a restaurant requires places to pool tips, mainly because I was always the kid that got stuck with the idiots in school projects and I wound up doing all the work For someone to take a tip without you giving it to them is theft. They will lose my business and I will gladly go around telling people about my experience.

May 26th, 2011, 09:33 AM	#40
Liber ninjette.org sage Name: Chris Location: Arkansas Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): EX250J Posts: 511	IIRC, NoVA/Southern MD/DC is among the richest regions in the country, if not the richest in terms of income/per capita. This holds true especially as of late, since Federal government employment/spending has increased throughout the recession, and so many recipients of that spending, non-profits and contractors, are based in NoVA and Southern MD. It wouldn't surprise me if the average tip was 20-30%. I guess the people at Ruby Tuesday and Chilis in Fairfax hated me, I always tipped ~15%...

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