250R NA Build - Ultimate

[mgentz]

Any chance you could post a video of your noise?

Update: the bike runs! It was something stupid. The new start/kill switch that came with the mp throttle had two wires switched. They just happened to be perfectly messed up to allow everything to work....but only run when the start button is pressed. There are 2 blk red wires and 2 black wires that were the issue.

[Racer x]

See the answers come. Like them or not it is better to have them then not knowing. Congrats.
Now How does it run?

[mgentz]

Not sure yet. The dealer ran it twice...each time for 30 sec...and one of those were for me to listen to it. It makes a lot of top end noise so it has not been run otherwise.

But tubarney says his makes a lot of noise to....I'm deciding whether or not I should tear into it to figure this out.

[tubarney]

Originally Posted by mgentz

Any chance you could post a video of your noise?

Update: the bike runs! It was something stupid. The new start/kill switch that came with the mp throttle had two wires switched. They just happened to be perfectly messed up to allow everything to work....but only run when the start button is pressed. There are 2 blk red wires and 2 black wires that were the issue.

Such an anti-climax. Electrics are the worst. I destroyed 7 fuses yesterday finding a short in the indicator circuit. Thats also why I tried to keep things as stock as possible. I decided to leave the cr carbs, koso and brt till later.

I'll post a video tomorrow. I can hear it at idle when riding. But as you can hear from the video it isn't that noticeable or "bad" sounding. I am going to give it a thrashing tomorrow to try and break them in, then drain the oil before the dyno on Monday. I am going to install the brt with the limiter set to 14k to really give them a work out.

Good news is that is that the rings are sealed now. The best thing about watching them seal was I got to see how much exhaust flow is leaking out of the headers.

[tubarney]

Originally Posted by mgentz

Not sure yet. The dealer ran it twice...each time for 30 sec...and one of those were for me to listen to it. It makes a lot of top end noise so it has not been run otherwise.

But tubarney says his makes a lot of noise to....I'm deciding whether or not I should tear into it to figure this out.

what sort of noise is it making?

[mgentz]

A rattingly/tapping sound like noisy lifters. Rpm dependent.

My setup is very close to yours and the motor turned over by hand nice and smooth after the new starter clutch. Also I verified the last time I pulled the head that the valves were still all black. I.e. not hitting the piston.

I wonder if its just the new cam plus high tension springs resonating through less head material (porting).

[mgentz]

I will be replacing my cam sprockets though.

[tubarney]

That's exactly what mine sounds like. I'll try and post a vid in the morning so you can watch it tonight. Doesn't sound bad, just loud.

I'm pretty sure it's just because the cams are brand new. I have gone for 2 half hour rides with it sounding like that and it doesn't seem to affect it in anyway.

[mgentz]

Yep its loud. But everything checks out fine. I wonder what racer x stuff sounds like?

[mgentz]

I will clean up the bike and run her next week. I'll let u know.

[Racer x]

I would just double check the valve clearance after warming it up. Then let it cool down and check it.

[tubarney]

Originally Posted by Racer x

I would just double check the valve clearance after warming it up. Then let it cool down and check it.

To be honest I think it goes away after the engine is warmed up. I will have to check tomorrow.

I am going to give it 100 km or so and if it is still making it I will check my valve clearances. Valve clearance was my first thought if its not the cams.

My theory is that there is very little insulation (engine cover) from the valve train. Any extra friction is going to create more noise. There is nitride coating all over them which creates more friction + they are brand new so they are going to wear in a little bit. We will see in a couple of days anyway.

[mgentz]

My valve clearance is still good. However I set them to the middle to loose end of the spec.

[tubarney]

Originally Posted by mgentz

My valve clearance is still good. However I set them to the middle to loose end of the spec.

Well mine are on the tight end and we are both experiencing the same problem. If you can call it that

I am uploading a video now. It is definitely more noticeable when the engine is cold. I will take it for a ride and warm it up to see if it goes away completely.

[tubarney]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-dcErQbU1w

[mgentz]

It says the video is private.

[tubarney]

sorry I'm new to youtube thing. Try now.

[mgentz]

That sounds just like mine. A mack truck of a motor...

Now for the theories...which one of our changes made it sound this way?

[tubarney]

I really have no idea. I hope its just the cams. Would seem that way since we both have brand new cams. It just sounds clunky.

I'm pretty sure it is the sound of the valve's being opened and closed.

Hopefully it will go away after another ride or 2 and an oil change. I'm just going to wait and see. If not I'll rip into it.

[tubarney]

I went for a 15 min ride then. It gets less noticeable as it warms up. I just took it to redline and it seems fine apart from the noise. I will see what happens when I flush the oil tomorrow.

The 110 main jet is a bit lean. I have no power and I'm getting popping when off throttle. Only when I give is some. I seem to have more power on half throttle then full.

[tubarney]

I need a litre of oil to do a change. I get it from the dealership, Kelen Kawasaki. I will ride the bike down and ask the Mechanic what he thinks. He has been on me to bring the bike down and show him anyway. I will have an answer tomorrow.

[c-dog]

Thats great! Glad you got the problem resolved. I was hoping it was something small and easy like that.

You haven't missed out on that many good riding days anyway due to the wonderful weather lately.

[subxero]

Originally Posted by tubarney

I went for a 15 min ride then. It gets less noticeable as it warms up. I just took it to redline and it seems fine apart from the noise. I will see what happens when I flush the oil tomorrow.

The 110 main jet is a bit lean. I have no power and I'm getting popping when off throttle. Only when I give is some. I seem to have more power on half throttle then full.

I had popping on decel it was small exhaust leak when i installed my new exhaust. Fixed it and no decel popping, not saying this is causing your popping but something to keep in mind.

[tubarney]

The kawa mechanic who fixes these things daily said to check for oil starvation. Basically pull the valve cover off and have a look for blue coloring. Also check valve clearances.

Other than that it is because the camshaft is a longer duration camshaft and it is not happy idling.

[tubarney]

Originally Posted by subxero

I had popping on decel it was small exhaust leak when i installed my new exhaust. Fixed it and no decel popping, not saying this is causing your popping but something to keep in mind.

I'm thinking this is the cause to. I have a big leak were it joins to the head. But I do have a lack of power at full throttle, not sure what that means. I'm going to take it down to the dyno so I can get the AFR measured.

[subxero]

^ I know when mine was rich it would come to life after 11.5k rpms and would feel weak in the 9k-11k range. I was the whole way up at 118's which was super rich but 11.5-13k still pulled fairly well. I think if you are lean this would not be the case and it would feel weak over the whole rev range involving the main jet.

[tubarney]

Drained oil and water. No head gasket leaks. Oil did need draining, full of assembly paste. I had a look at the oil, good news is that there is not any metal filings in there.

[tubarney]

I'll pull the rocker cover off as soon as I can un-stick it from the gasket. Liquid gasket is a b****.

I'm thinking the noise has something to do with air bubbles in my oil. Only when it is running. Its not from a head gasket leak. Im thinking its either because of the left over assembly paste, the crank making air bubbles or the oil pump not sealing properly.

I am 99% sure the oil pump is submerged in oil so I don't think it is that.

[subxero]

I could not hear much in your video. I know when my bike was brand new i had a rattling sound on the cam chain side of the engine on cold start up. Never could figure out exactly what it was. The dealer has nothing to say about it either.
I think it was due to foaming oil as well from having just a little to much oil in the case. Sould would go away shortly after engine warmed up a bit. Have not had it since i changed my oil after hearing it.

Here is link to the thread which again no one ever figures it out. And here is a vid that shows similar to what mine sounded like

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...ht=rock+engine

Link to original page on YouTube.

[cuong-nutz]

Perhaps it is just the exhaust side cam chain guide rocking back and forth since its just kind sitting in there with nothing retaining it.

[mgentz]

I don't have the clack...just a loud tapping.

I took it out last night and the tranny was real clunky...plus I thought I was not supposed to be able to get into second from a stop? Hmmm...odd considering I never removed the tranny. Just the shifting mech but that was simple to reinstall.

Glad to see your motor had no metal in the oil. Let me know if you discover the cause of the tap and I will do the same. I will spend some time rechecking over stuff over the next few days.

[tubarney]

Originally Posted by mgentz

I don't have the clack...just a loud tapping.

I took it out last night and the tranny was real clunky...plus I thought I was not supposed to be able to get into second from a stop? Hmmm...odd considering I never removed the tranny. Just the shifting mech but that was simple to reinstall.

Glad to see your motor had no metal in the oil. Let me know if you discover the cause of the tap and I will do the same. I will spend some time rechecking over stuff over the next few days.

Did you take off the shift spring? I installed my new one wrong and was getting some pretty crap shifting. I also could shift into second from stop. I install that properly and the neutral bolt, then it fixed it.

I would not worry about the noisy head Mike. I just got the rocker cover off. This is what my camshaft looks like after 3 rides totalling about hour and half riding. Also I was giving it some and taking to redline after a 10 min warm up.

No oil starvation. The black nitirde coating has only started to barley wear away. It is still 80% there.

The cams look perfect. That assembly paste is good s***. I am surprised at how little wear there is on the camshafts. It is going to take at least 200-300 miles to wear the coating away.

[tubarney]

Here another photo of the head.

I am going to check the torque of the head bolts and valve clearance then its going back together.

[tubarney]

This is what the spring should look like when installed. Should be something simple if you didn't remove the tranny.

[tubarney]

The journals on the other side of the sprocket have worn down to how they are supposed to be. Still a little bit more to go. You can see all the nitride coating left in the middle of the journal.

[cuong-nutz]

Originally Posted by tubarney

This is what the spring should look like when installed. Should be something simple if you didn't remove the tranny.

Hmm I wonder if tr spring was not installed properly would it cause false neutrals. I couldn't shift into second and the rEst if the gears.

[mgentz]

I will have to pull the clutch cover. Now I cannot get into first n or second. I swear my spring looked like that pull maybe it came apart with all this.

I am searching threads now as others have had this issue.....

Good to see everything is wearing well. I will check mine soon once I get all the bugs out. I still wonder what that noise is....seems to go away at steady throttle and returns upon varying the rpms....either way.

[tubarney]

Originally Posted by mgentz

I will have to pull the clutch cover. Now I cannot get into first n or second. I swear my spring looked like that pull maybe it came apart with all this.

I am searching threads now as others have had this issue.....

Good to see everything is wearing well. I will check mine soon once I get all the bugs out. I still wonder what that noise is....seems to go away at steady throttle and returns upon varying the rpms....either way.

Yeah mine seemed to go away at different rpm or throttle settings. Not sure which. It is weird to say the least.

I had to pull my clutch cover off also for a different reason. Use some crank case sealant on it and you should be good to re-use the old gasket.

Check the spring and also the positioning of the teeth that turn the shift drum.

[mgentz]

@tubarney how's your bike coming along?

[tubarney]

Originally Posted by mgentz

@tubarney how's your bike coming along?

I've been lazy the last 2 days and have not spent much time on it. When I pulled my cams my chain fell off the crank sprocket. So I have to pull the clutch cover off again which I am planning on doing tomorrow.

I am definitely going to dyno it on Monday.

How's yours going? Did you sort out the transmission.