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Old May 9th, 2016, 06:34 AM   #1
toEleven
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What to do about traffic signals that ignore motorcycles.

I apologize upfront, as I didn't bother to search for similar threads. Excerpts from an Apr 29 article on Revzilla's Common Tread.
Quote:
Traffic sensors and how they work.
Those rectangular or round markings you see in the pavement at stop lights are actually sensors that let the signals know when someone is waiting.
...
The short version of the explanation is that those lines you see are where wires are buried two to four inches deep in the pavement. A current flows through the wires and changes in the electromagnetic field of the loop are caused when a vehicle passes over it or stops above it.

No problem with cars and trucks, but with motorcycles, which have less conductive material (and bicycles are worse yet), the signal may not detect the motorcycle if the sensitivity, which is adjustable, is set too low.

When that happens, you're stuck at a red light that may never change.
Quote:
So what can you do?
First of all, stop your motorcycle with the wheels lined up with one of the cuts in the pavement. This puts the maximum possible amount of conductive material above the wire loop. If you stop in the center of the square, you're making the sensor's job more difficult.

If that doesn't work, it's time for additional measures. Many times, when I've been stuck at a light, if there's a car behind me I edge as far forward as possible and wave to the driver to move forward so the car's wheels are inside the sensor loop. Usually, the driver is clueless about what I'm doing, but some pointing at the pavement and the light sometimes cuts through the fog.
...
The comments below the article also offer
  • "I've learned putting my kickstand down always works."
  • "I've had success turning off then restarting my bike. The starter motor gives the conductive loop enough of a jolt to register a vehicle."
  • More traffic circles!
My nearest unfriendly left turn signal is the first light I reach during my commute - but only if I go the fast boring route, instead of the fun curvy route. That effectively means it only inconveniences me when time is an issue.

Any other suggestions, interesting stories, or related experiences?
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Old May 9th, 2016, 06:45 AM   #2
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I found that thumbing the starter typically works. Since it's a one way bearing, you can do this with the engine running with no harm.

Also, Oregon and Washington here passed new laws allowing motorcycles to turn left on red, provided one complete light cycle happens but you still don't get a green.
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Old May 9th, 2016, 07:32 AM   #3
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There are some large magnets for sale that attach to the bottom of your bike, which are supposed to help trigger the sensors. They seem to get mixed reviews depending on the specific bike and sensor details.

The only sensor I have experience with is the one to open the gate in my buddy's subdivision on the way out. It's very rare that it doesn't trigger from simply riding down the street normally, and even if it doesn't, the exit isn't too much different from this:



I'm not aware of any traffic sensors anywhere around here...
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Old May 9th, 2016, 08:03 AM   #4
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In Minnesota we are allowed to run a red light as long as we waited a reasonable time for the light to switch. For me, I'll give it about 1 min to switch, if not, then the first opportunity to safely run the red, I do. I've gotten a few strange looks from people that don't know the law.
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Old May 9th, 2016, 08:14 AM   #5
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Ride the bike over to the sidewalk and press the walking button. (Never done it but I've seen it and it was funny)

Personally, If I wait and don't get my turn I will just turn right then change my route up a little bit. I hardly ever ride a motorcycle with a place to go, I just ride them for the twisties.
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Old May 9th, 2016, 08:20 AM   #6
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I see these intersections as safety concerns and avoid them when possible.

If I feel I have overstayed my welcome, I will just make a legal turn and bust a uturn as needed.
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Old May 9th, 2016, 08:37 AM   #7
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I will wait for around 5 mins, if no other car comes behind or across from me at the light I will go through it when the lanes are empty.
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Old May 9th, 2016, 09:11 AM   #8
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If it's a light I know will not turn for me, I will go as soon as it is clear. Pa law allows it, easy to prove as a nonfunctional signal. If I do not know the light I will look for a pedestrian button to cross or wait 2 minutes.
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Old May 9th, 2016, 09:14 AM   #9
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I once saw a "Bicycle Box" build into one of the traffic detection loops in a left turn lane. Little white box with a bicycle symbol inside it. My Ninja fit perfectly! I've also waved the car behind me forward so they would trip the signal.

Nevada just passed a Safe of Red law that reads:

Quote:
Originally Posted by NRS 484B.307 subsection 7 paragraph (d)
After complying with the requirement to stop, a person driving a motorcycle, moped or trimobile or riding a bicycle or an electric bicycle may proceed straight through or turn right or left if:
(1) The person waits for two complete cycles of the lights or lighted arrows of the applicable official traffic-control device and the signal does not change because of a malfunction or because the signal failed to detect the presence of the motorcycle, moped, trimobile, bicycle or electric bicycle;
(2) No other device at the place prohibits either or both such turns, if applicable; and
(3) The person yields the right-of-way to pedestrians and other traffic proceeding as directed by the signal at the intersection.

Great news, except for that bit of waiting two cycles. If on a deserted street and the light is red waiting to pick someone up, if it never triggers, it never cycles. I have yet to find an NHP officer to sit down with and ask "What if?" I did ask the Nevada Rider folks and they kind of shrugged. Luckily, the two signals that I am aware of that fail to detect bikes are easily avoided.
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Old May 9th, 2016, 10:57 AM   #10
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I'm hoping the Veloloop will really work. I contacted them and volunteered to become a beta tester. They said they would get back to me in June.

http://www.veloloop.com/
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Old May 9th, 2016, 02:55 PM   #11
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by toEleven View Post
...........Any other suggestions, interesting stories, or related experiences?
Quote:
Originally Posted by csmith12 View Post
I see these intersections as safety concerns and avoid them when possible.

If I feel I have overstayed my welcome, I will just make a legal turn and bust a uturn as needed.
Fully agree!

1 right turn + 1 U-turn = 1 left turn

1 right turn + 1 U-turn + 1 right turn = Crossing a stubborn red light

Safer and faster for most situations.
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Old April 3rd, 2017, 10:06 AM   #12
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What's a traffic light? In the county I live in there's only 1 fully functioning traffic light, and we only have it it for 15 years now. We have caution lights, but only 1 traffic light I love living in the middle of nowhere LoL.

In KY your allowed to run the light, as long as you wait a reasonable time, usually two light cycles.
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Old April 3rd, 2017, 10:23 AM   #13
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In KY your allowed to shoot the light out, as long as you wait a reasonable time, usually two light cycles.
FTFY.

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Old April 3rd, 2017, 12:51 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VaFish View Post
I'm hoping the Veloloop will really work. I contacted them and volunteered to become a beta tester. They said they would get back to me in June.

http://www.veloloop.com/
And the Veloloop is still not out.
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Old April 3rd, 2017, 01:47 PM   #15
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snake oil will trigger lights
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Old April 3rd, 2017, 02:02 PM   #16
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I found a patent related to this: https://www.google.com/patents/US7432827 It references other prior art, and explains why this device is better, and deserved to be patented.

GreenL, is your device the one in patent US7432827, or one of the ones mentioned in that patent's description of related art?
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Old April 3rd, 2017, 08:03 PM   #17
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The problem is having enough magnetic mass, like a car has a lot of mass, while obviously a bike does not, and trying to increase the bike's magnetic signature with glue on magnets, or other gizmos, just seems a bit much.
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Old April 4th, 2017, 07:43 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InvisiBill View Post
There are some large magnets...
I've found that large magnets on small bikes actually pull the bike closer to trucks driving by.

I usually look for any cops, count to 3 and go.
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Old April 4th, 2017, 09:55 AM   #19
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I wait a reasonable time and go through it once it's clear.
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Old April 4th, 2017, 11:22 AM   #20
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RUN IT!!

Lol, after waiting a reasonable time

*Seeing as I don't touch the ground very well on any bikes I ride (except mini's) it would be worse for me to try to ride to the sidewalk and press the walk button or try and turn around or move lanes or whatever. I've run them many times once they've clearly NOT changed for me.
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Old April 6th, 2017, 07:26 PM   #21
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Maximum waiting time is 5 minutes. If the lights are still not changed, I just go when lanes are empty.
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Old April 13th, 2017, 10:20 AM   #22
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Maximum waiting time is 5 minutes. If the lights are still not changed, I just go when lanes are empty.
You're much more patient than me
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Old April 13th, 2017, 03:35 PM   #23
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Or me. I don't wait five minutes, more like 2. That can get me in trouble at some lights, since I know there's one here in town that even on a good day will make a person wait almost 4 or 5 minutes before it changes. I'm not sure I'd know if it didn't "see" me!
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Old April 13th, 2017, 07:17 PM   #24
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You're much more patient than me
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliGrrl View Post
Or me. I don't wait five minutes, more like 2. That can get me in trouble at some lights, since I know there's one here in town that even on a good day will make a person wait almost 4 or 5 minutes before it changes. I'm not sure I'd know if it didn't "see" me!
There is a reason to it. lol

At some junctions, there are automated traffic lights camera within the area just to catch traffic offenders. If you run over the red lights, there will be flashes hence indicating that the camera is taking your picture. The summon will later be sent to your home via mail.

At least by waiting 5 minutes, you knew that others will go first and if you can see the white light flashing, you will definitely know that the coast is not clear.

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Old April 13th, 2017, 07:21 PM   #25
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This is the camera I was talking about...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg camera.jpg (66.8 KB, 2 views)
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Old May 9th, 2017, 01:23 PM   #26
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I've had luck with laying the bike over so the engine's closer to the sensor-loop. Your success will vary depending upon how the thing's set up and programmed. There was a new light installed down in Santa Barbara near my house that was actually sensitive to bicycles! Light always changed within 5-10 seconds after I pulled into left-turn lane on my bicycle!
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Old May 9th, 2017, 04:08 PM   #27
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Sometimes the city/county can increase the sensitivity of the sensor loop. We've had our city increase them to sense bicycles, on routes we use often.
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Old May 9th, 2017, 07:38 PM   #28
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I go through them like this so the cameras can't see my license plate:



It's important to have one hand in the air, and if you know where the camera is, bonus points for giving it the finger.

In all seriousness though, I did once hop off my bike and run over to punch the pedestrian button. There aren't many signals around here that don't see bikes though, and it's now legal to run them here after a cycle (Oregon).
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Old May 9th, 2017, 07:42 PM   #29
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I go through them like this.

Wow that is a serious wheelie for a 250.
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Old June 7th, 2017, 09:48 PM   #30
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Any wheelie on a 250 is serious.
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