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Old September 4th, 2017, 08:19 AM   #1
Sirref
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25 minutes of madness - first proper rain race

I've been trying not to shamelessly plug my race videos here but this one is special. Race begins around 12minutes and is a strong contender for my favorite race of the year.

Strong focus on staying upright as well as hitting apexes to rely on being on line to be fast with a fairly good multi-lap battle in the first half of the race.

RAIN TIRES ARE AMAZING! The tires slipped everywhere but they held.

I remembered advice from palmer with @csmith12 @adouglas @Ducati999 @Bigballsofpaint and @ttd to roll on smoothly as if my throttle were a clicker and then simply pause at the time the rear starts to slide then continue the roll on when it is back in line. Unfortunately a front mounted camera only does so much to catch rear end slides

Link to original page on YouTube.

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Old September 4th, 2017, 09:02 AM   #2
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Awesome! I love rain races!!!
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Old October 10th, 2017, 09:07 AM   #3
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Ben,
Great ride! You really looked smooth. Wish I could be out there racing with you. Next season I will do everything I can to make it down to NJMP to ride with you.

Couple of questions about running fast in the rain on rain tires.

1: Looks like you use pretty much the same line as in the dry just with earlier slowing and less corner speed. Did you have to alter your lines from the dry other than just slower = less run out?

2: Do you have to alter your riding style much with rain tires in the wet. Do you hang off more to keep the bike more upright or just slow more before turn in? I know you can either lean or brake or turn but not much combinations of them. Can you brake nearly as hard on rains(with really smooth application) or do you have to slow earlier and brake softer over all?

3: How much more mental effort is each lap vs the dry? I know you are feeling the feed back from the tires but are you an higher alert in the rain or about the same?

Last: How wet did you get inside your leathers? I have done a few wet track days but that is not the same as you don't often follow another bike closely getting sprayed from the tires.

Keep posting your videos and don't be ashamed of showing what those little Kawasaki's are capable of doing!

Ant
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Old October 10th, 2017, 11:21 AM   #4
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You can actually stay dry inside leathers. Trick is finding optimal location on bike to attach umbrellas.

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Old October 10th, 2017, 01:15 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducati999 View Post
Ben,
Great ride! You really looked smooth. Wish I could be out there racing with you. Next season I will do everything I can to make it down to NJMP to ride with you.

Couple of questions about running fast in the rain on rain tires.

1: Looks like you use pretty much the same line as in the dry just with earlier slowing and less corner speed. Did you have to alter your lines from the dry other than just slower = less run out?

2: Do you have to alter your riding style much with rain tires in the wet. Do you hang off more to keep the bike more upright or just slow more before turn in? I know you can either lean or brake or turn but not much combinations of them. Can you brake nearly as hard on rains(with really smooth application) or do you have to slow earlier and brake softer over all?

3: How much more mental effort is each lap vs the dry? I know you are feeling the feed back from the tires but are you an higher alert in the rain or about the same?

Last: How wet did you get inside your leathers? I have done a few wet track days but that is not the same as you don't often follow another bike closely getting sprayed from the tires.

Keep posting your videos and don't be ashamed of showing what those little Kawasaki's are capable of doing!

Ant
Thank you! I definitely want to ride with you again too, it's always a good time

1. I altered my lines slightly to keep myself straight up and down as much as possible, this meant slower apex speed with a later apex but only by a few feet. I aimed for consistency with this every lap so I could build trust in the tires and conditions. Note in the battle with Quentin (naked bike) he found himself running wide a lot because he was trying to hold speed on entrances rather than exits. My allocation of risk by focusing on hitting my marks every lap was lower with the same pace. Slow in fast out definitely holds true in the rain.

2. I could actually brake really hard (about 80%) and get on the throttle pretty good in the rain, note: 300 = automatic rain mode power delivery. I practiced braking in the rain yesterday and got within 40ft of my normal braking point before the front started slipping under brakes. I still trailed in on the brakes, just way less. The technique is the same just riding with a different degree of application to the controls. Body positioning I actually brought back in a little to stay connected with the bike so i could control rear tire spin and slip which I got a lot of entering the straightaway. To summarize I basically ride my 300 in the rain the same way I ride a superbike in the dry, very slow and gentle with the throttle and brakes while listening to what the bike is telling me and giving it what it wants to maintain grip.

3. Mental effort is on edge while racing to begin with, if anything rain is actually far more relaxed due to the lower pace. Tire slip happens at the limit regardless of grip level, there's more comfort in the dry purely because I have a ton more dry laps than wet laps under my belt. Without rain tires in a downpour I would be in a full on state of panic every corner until I inevitably crashed (rain tires cost less than repairs and are more fun)


Funny story about being wet in leathers, I thought I was dry when I was racing. The moment I pulled off the track my focus left me and I felt the chill through my whole body, every fiber of my being was soaked
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Old October 16th, 2017, 07:55 PM   #6
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Excellent write up. I have done a few track days in the rain but not on rain tires. I want to try them on the track but would forgo the experience to have a nice dry track to ride on anytime! Obviously this is an area I will need lots of practice to feel comfortable. I have not even riddin in the rain (on street tires)for over a year so my wet skills--especially braking-- needs practice. Next year I am planning multiple track days so I am sure I will finally get my chance to try out my rain tires.

Thanks for the answers'


Stay safe
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Old October 17th, 2017, 03:20 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirref View Post
I've been trying not to shamelessly plug my race videos here but this one is special. Race begins around 12minutes and is a strong contender for my favorite race of the year.

Strong focus on staying upright as well as hitting apexes to rely on being on line to be fast with a fairly good multi-lap battle in the first half of the race.

RAIN TIRES ARE AMAZING! The tires slipped everywhere but they held.

I remembered advice from palmer with @csmith12 @adouglas @Ducati999 @Bigballsofpaint and @ttd to roll on smoothly as if my throttle were a clicker and then simply pause at the time the rear starts to slide then continue the roll on when it is back in line. Unfortunately a front mounted camera only does so much to catch rear end slides

Link to original page on YouTube.

I used to be a Grid Marshall for the S.C.C.A.. European auto races are run in the rain. Indy and Nascar pit the cars in a rain storm. I used to work at the Watkins Glen Grand Prix course and they had an amature race they called "The Fun One" run in October. They would race sometimes with snow falling.

Have seen three people die on dry tracks in my life I can not share your enthusiasm for racing in the rain. It make about as much sense to me as running red lights and stop signs.

Just my opinion.

Bill
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Old October 17th, 2017, 05:29 AM   #8
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How long did it take your leathers to dry out?

TTD tire guy:

"Rains are great.
You can accelerate as hard as you want.
Brake as hard as you want
Corner with your knee down.

But you can only do one of those things at a time."
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Old October 17th, 2017, 10:36 AM   #9
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Rain Races is my favourite one.

I want to share a link for rain races lover here.
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Old October 17th, 2017, 10:39 AM   #10
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Eight things to consider when buying motorcycle leather jackets

Motorcycle attire has become an outfit to have, and a rider may need a beautiful coat. Making the right choice is critical and complicated due to the vast market selection that is currently in major towns. Motorcycle jackets have many functions than regular jackets while riding a bike. A good motorcycle jacket is like selecting a life-long partner whom you spend the entire life. Hence many factors should be put in place before purchasing a leather jacket.
1. Safety and protection
The safety features in motorbike leather jackets make a massive difference from the everyday jackets. Most of the motorbike jackets have shields at the back, chest, shoulders, and elbows to protect you from external injuries in case of a cruise.
Safety could be the number one factor people should consider before buying motorcycle jacket. Protectors provided while purchasing motorcycle jackets and are padded on various points of the jackets. Ensure your protectors are larger and fitting close to the part of the body they are intended to shield from injury. Good jackets equipped with a logo “CE approved” making it easier to identify them. Protectors should cover a large surface area and offer comfort while riding your bike. Back protectors prevent damage to your spine, ribs and internal organs.
2. Color
Most riders prefer color black when choosing the leather jacket. Black can impose much danger on the road especially at night, which is why it is necessary to choose bright colors like orange, yellow or white. Manufacturers are processing jackets with reflective piping to be visible in dark areas. Wearing a gorgeous motorcycle jacket at night reduces the chances of being hit by another vehicle or a bike. There is lovely hi-vis safety vest worn over black jackets, and this increases visibility at night when other riders or drivers shine their lights your way.
3. Fit and Comfort
Comfort is a vital requirement when purchasing riding jacket. The right jacket is subjective to prosperity. A good leather jacket is an investment hence go for something that fits well. Most motorcycle jacket manufacturer and online sellers have a sizing chart to determine the correct size. Take accurate measurements of your length, chest size, waist and the sleeves. Your body must move freely and flex the right places when wearing a leather jacket. Tight jackets restrict your movement making it hard to reach for motorbike components. The sleeves should be longer because of the overstretched arms.
Motorcycle jacket which is small makes it harder for easy moving and could lead to fatigue very fast, while big jackets slide in windy areas leaving your skin exposed to cold.
4. Age
When choosing a motorbike jacket consider the age of the fabric. Old jackets may not provide protection compared to new standard jackets on the market. The current manufacturers offer unique and affordable leather jackets for riders. Old jackets tore out quickly around the seams and had subjected to harsh environmental factors.


5. Weather
Consider a motorcycling jacket which has removable liners. Insulated liner can make the jacket warm enough for the winter and removed during the summertime. Some coatings are long sleeved while others are short sleeved to offer your needs. Motorcycle jackets with tight lines are available to keep you dry during rainy season. The impermeable material also provides more warmth to your skin.
Jackets with vents are excellent during the summer season to prevent excess sweating. Leather jacket with mesh vent material is economical to draw out excess moisture.
6. Cost
Motorcycle leather jacket is quite expensive because of the quality. Research on various websites and compare the prices, cheap leather jackets may not last long being they start tearing out. Expensive leather jackets do not mean quality, but most of them tend to service you in the long term. A good leather jacket is a long-term investment in the riding industry. Purchasing cheaper jacket is not an option and buying more affordable jackets means riding isn’t your hobby. Having a buyer’s guide helps you to identify favorable market prices.
7. Durability and Quality
Most leather jackets have full length zipping making it easier to get matching pants. Check the stitching because overlaid seems are hard to burst open and the number of panels.
Many people believe that buffalo and cow leather is more durable than goat leather, check the leather rub to determine the original material.
Check on the method of washing the leather jackets; frequent washing can lead to tearing and chipping out. Many leather jackets can be hand cleaned to maintain their quality rather than being machine washed which subjects the material to high temperatures.
8. Style
There are several types of jackets in the market which play different functions to diversify the motorbike riders. The various types are classified to form and fashion;
The classic motorcycle leather jackets are all about way and taste. They offer minimal protection, are light in weight and mostly for people not traveling long distance. It is used by riders who use a low speedster.
The race model contains a lot of padding and armor to shield the rider from external injuries. You can use them for high speed and long distance traveling.
Touring jackets are for long distance traveling, although they do not offer a high level of protection.
Adventure gear jacket is designed for mixed terrain and has high protective gadgets to shield from injuries. They have breathable designs and are waterproof materials.
When choosing the leather jacket for riding consider the style of your traveling and the terrain in the geographical area to ensure your safety and comfort.
Conclusion
Motorcycle leather jacket needs to offer much protection to the rider. There are things to pay attention to before purchasing a leather jacket for your motorcycle. A quality jacket should be your investment to safety and comfort. Therefore, with the guide, you require critical thinking before purchasing the jacket. The final decision as to what motorcycle jacket to buy is entirely yours. Go ahead and make an informed decision, all the best.
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Old October 17th, 2017, 11:50 AM   #11
Sirref
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram Jet View Post
I used to be a Grid Marshall for the S.C.C.A.. European auto races are run in the rain. Indy and Nascar pit the cars in a rain storm. I used to work at the Watkins Glen Grand Prix course and they had an amature race they called "The Fun One" run in October. They would race sometimes with snow falling.

Have seen three people die on dry tracks in my life I can not share your enthusiasm for racing in the rain. It make about as much sense to me as running red lights and stop signs.

Just my opinion.

Bill
It's a very understandable position, the way I see it the lower speeds involved in rain riding actually make for comparatively safer crashes than their dry counterparts. Every crash hurts and has the potential for loss of life. The safety also has a lot to do with the track layout, watkins glen isn't a particularly safe track. I've also seen several people go through some insane crashes where they didn't all make it, one of which happened about 40 feet in front of me during a beginner session at a track day. The risks in racing and riding are ever present.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adouglas View Post


How long did it take your leathers to dry out?

TTD tire guy:

"Rains are great.
You can accelerate as hard as you want.
Brake as hard as you want
Corner with your knee down.

But you can only do one of those things at a time."
That about sums up the rain tire approach. My leathers actually dried out quicker than I did, I used a suit fan to dry it. Hangdry makes the best one but my knock off version is still perfectly functional.
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Old October 17th, 2017, 12:20 PM   #12
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Just wait till you drop a knee in the wet. It went against every grain of my being....
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Old October 17th, 2017, 12:26 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by csmith12 View Post
Just wait till you drop a knee in the wet. It went against every grain of my being....
It's going to happen next season, I got close in this race
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