Suspension Tuning SoCal

JBinSD · April 29th, 2013, 04:34 PM

I have Racetech emulators up front, and just had the proto-type Elka shock made for the rear, but not happy with the tune up. Unfortunately I'm not experienced enough to articulate the bike's feedback to make it stable in turns at high speed, ie rebound, compression, rake and travel. I lowered the forks on the triples a bit, as it felt like it was riding high and pushing out, especially in the bowl at Chuck.

anyone have a rec for a So Cal tuner in San Diego or parts nearby? I don't think I'm communicating well with Tige at CM, and maybe another mind might help. . .

thanx,
Joel

ahamay · April 29th, 2013, 07:04 PM

The only shop I can think of off the top of my head is Lee's Cycle shop. Never actually been to their shop and cannot comment on their work. I've heard mixed reviews from friends. Some swear by the shop and love the guys there and some have told me to avoid them like the plague.

Why not just sign up for a day with socaltrackdays and play with it? Take a note book out and record your work.

Trailerboy531 · April 29th, 2013, 07:25 PM

You'll find that many people seem to think they aren't communicating well with Tige...

I've heard great things about Dave Moss but he typically works up in Nor Cal. He does do Let's Ride track days at Buttonwillow though. I was thinking about doing a track day there to have him dial my suspension in (obviously pre-bike-destroying-last-round)

JBinSD · April 30th, 2013, 10:49 AM

Yeah, after dropping quite a bit of cash into a certain pocket, its frustrating not to have the support to get it dialed in. Admittedly, I didn't push for much attention, but the 250/300 crowd doesn't get much action compared to the rest of the bikes CM races. . .

tooblekain · April 30th, 2013, 11:09 AM

There are a few options....

Sean at Trackoholics in Oceanside can help you tune. He sometimes is at CVMA events.

You can try Randy at Inhouse suspension since he is consistently at the track. Randy will tweak knobs but not tell you what he did...his philosophy is "go out and ride and tell me how it feels." Some people like that approach, some people don't. Also I have heard that Randy may sometimes do an "unorthodox" fix for a problem (i.e. use different/mismatched rated springs for each fork leg, etc---while Dave Moss preaches that you can do that but the deviation has to be a certain/small number)

Do a Buttonwillow day and make sure Dave Moss is there. I know he's good but you may end up tuning for Buttonwillow due to it's bumpy nature. For Chuckwalla you may need to do some minor tweaks.

or....

Buy a couple books, start experimenting yourself and become your own tuner.

A couple books I recommend: RaceTech Suspension Bible by Race Tech/Paul Thede and Sportbike Suspension Tuning by Andrew Trevitt.

Honestly, some of the best suspension advice I got was from Gabriel from Michelin. When I was I trying out his Power Cups I told him the problems I felt and he told me what to do. Sure enough, they worked. Sofia did the same thing...asked for advice and he told her what to do...sure enough, it worked.

Gabe from Michelin told me what the possible fix is and why with good explanations that I could understand. Drawback is you have to do the tuning yourself. But since you have the Elka and no tools are needed...and as long as you can pull the emulators out yourself, you'll do fine.

Part of finding a good suspension tuner is having a good relationship and having a defined set of vocabulary to make sure you're on the same page. I have also found that there are sometimes more than one way to fix a handling issue.

I know there are times Ive given suspension advice to a few people. I know the times I have self-diagnosed it's worked for me.

I don't mind being like Gabe and asking you to try this and see if it works or not.

The other question to ask....do you know what your current settings are on your forks and shock? If you don't, for me that's like diagnosing blind.

JBinSD · April 30th, 2013, 11:31 AM

thanks Matt, I agree, I need to learn more about the vocabulary and the science itself before anyone can really help me. Rebound, compression, rake, trail, travel, stroke, pre-load, its all specifically defined, and it means different things to different people. I guess I should challenge myself to figure some of this stuff out for myself. I always hated math, thats why I went to law school. . .

alex.s · April 30th, 2013, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tooblekain

or....

Buy a couple books, start experimenting yourself and become your own tuner.

A couple books I recommend: RaceTech Suspension Bible by Race Tech/Paul Thede and Sportbike Suspension Tuning by Andrew Trevitt.

this. being able to do it yourself will not only save you money but you'll end up with a better tune since you are willing to spend more time thinking about it and making adjustments down the road (ie- temp change or whatever-- you'll know what needs to be done instead of having to explain the problem to someone else, hope they understood you correctly, hope they make good adjustments, then go try it again.

9lives · May 1st, 2013, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBinSD

Yeah, after dropping quite a bit of cash into a certain pocket, its frustrating not to have the support to get it dialed in. Admittedly, I didn't push for much attention, but the 250/300 crowd doesn't get much action compared to the rest of the bikes CM races. . .

Joel have you asked Tige to work with you for a day getting it dialed in? If I decide to race in ULWS next season it'll be on a 300 set up by Tige. So keeping that in mind I have a vested interest in seeing your suspension working properly. So why don't we do a trackday together where Tige is going to be there. Let me ride your bike and give feedback to Tige about what it's doing. Expect to have to pay Tige for his time but I can't see it being a lot of money.

dino74 · May 2nd, 2013, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9lives

... to race in ULWS next season it'll be on a 300

I like this part!

ahamay · June 9th, 2013, 04:15 PM

Bump. JB have you done anything else to the front end and have you been able to feel a difference. Last couple of times at chuck I have felt uncomfortable with the front on mine. Just doesnt feel stable and feels like I'm about to tuck the front anytime I try to up the speed. Especially turns 4/5 and 6/7. Seems like if I stay under 75mph or so it's fine but going north of 75 the front starts pushing wide and just leaves me uneasy.

rojoracing53 · June 9th, 2013, 04:44 PM

Stop tweaking and just ride that B****

JBinSD · June 10th, 2013, 08:19 AM

I have no idea how fast I go through any particular turn, but yeah, I've been tweaking the fork heighth by moving the triples up and down on the fork tube, Its kinda screwing up the geometry though, I currently have about 5 mm of tube showing above the triples, but I think I may back that off a bit again, I'm getting some unsettling chatter under load.

Does anyone have a good rec for an aftermarket triple thats light and doesn't have the ignition ring on top?

April 29th, 2013, 04:34 PM	#1
JBinSD ninjette.org guru Name: Joel Location: Sandy Eggo north Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300, '99 SV650 tracked Posts: 378	Suspension Tuning SoCal I have Racetech emulators up front, and just had the proto-type Elka shock made for the rear, but not happy with the tune up. Unfortunately I'm not experienced enough to articulate the bike's feedback to make it stable in turns at high speed, ie rebound, compression, rake and travel. I lowered the forks on the triples a bit, as it felt like it was riding high and pushing out, especially in the bowl at Chuck. anyone have a rec for a So Cal tuner in San Diego or parts nearby? I don't think I'm communicating well with Tige at CM, and maybe another mind might help. . . thanx, Joel

April 29th, 2013, 07:25 PM	#3
Trailerboy531 Gear crash test dummy Name: Max Location: South Bay (So. Cal) Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Ninja 250 race bike, 2014 ZX-636r Posts: A lot.	You'll find that many people seem to think they aren't communicating well with Tige... I've heard great things about Dave Moss but he typically works up in Nor Cal. He does do Let's Ride track days at Buttonwillow though. I was thinking about doing a track day there to have him dial my suspension in (obviously pre-bike-destroying-last-round) __________________________________________________ CVMA #531

April 30th, 2013, 11:09 AM	#5
tooblekain ninjette.org sage Name: Matt Location: San Diego, CA Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Triumph Bonneville; 2008 Ninja 250r (trackbike) Posts: 748	There are a few options.... Sean at Trackoholics in Oceanside can help you tune. He sometimes is at CVMA events. You can try Randy at Inhouse suspension since he is consistently at the track. Randy will tweak knobs but not tell you what he did...his philosophy is "go out and ride and tell me how it feels." Some people like that approach, some people don't. Also I have heard that Randy may sometimes do an "unorthodox" fix for a problem (i.e. use different/mismatched rated springs for each fork leg, etc---while Dave Moss preaches that you can do that but the deviation has to be a certain/small number) Do a Buttonwillow day and make sure Dave Moss is there. I know he's good but you may end up tuning for Buttonwillow due to it's bumpy nature. For Chuckwalla you may need to do some minor tweaks. or.... Buy a couple books, start experimenting yourself and become your own tuner. A couple books I recommend: RaceTech Suspension Bible by Race Tech/Paul Thede and Sportbike Suspension Tuning by Andrew Trevitt. Honestly, some of the best suspension advice I got was from Gabriel from Michelin. When I was I trying out his Power Cups I told him the problems I felt and he told me what to do. Sure enough, they worked. Sofia did the same thing...asked for advice and he told her what to do...sure enough, it worked. Gabe from Michelin told me what the possible fix is and why with good explanations that I could understand. Drawback is you have to do the tuning yourself. But since you have the Elka and no tools are needed...and as long as you can pull the emulators out yourself, you'll do fine. Part of finding a good suspension tuner is having a good relationship and having a defined set of vocabulary to make sure you're on the same page. I have also found that there are sometimes more than one way to fix a handling issue. I know there are times Ive given suspension advice to a few people. I know the times I have self-diagnosed it's worked for me. I don't mind being like Gabe and asking you to try this and see if it works or not. The other question to ask....do you know what your current settings are on your forks and shock? If you don't, for me that's like diagnosing blind. __________________________________________________ CVMA #312SoCal TrackdaysBigHeadz RacingMotion ProFactory EffexLeatt Brace* Racetech Bell Woodcraft CFMVortexHotbodiesSurface Sun SystemsBrakingLiveWire EnergyFreegun Underwear
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April 29th, 2013, 07:04 PM	#2
ahamay ninjette.org member Name: Non-ya Location: Socal Join Date: Mar 2013 Motorcycle(s): Tree Hundred Posts: 72	The only shop I can think of off the top of my head is Lee's Cycle shop. Never actually been to their shop and cannot comment on their work. I've heard mixed reviews from friends. Some swear by the shop and love the guys there and some have told me to avoid them like the plague. Why not just sign up for a day with socaltrackdays and play with it? Take a note book out and record your work.

April 30th, 2013, 10:49 AM	#4
JBinSD ninjette.org guru Name: Joel Location: Sandy Eggo north Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300, '99 SV650 tracked Posts: 378	Yeah, after dropping quite a bit of cash into a certain pocket, its frustrating not to have the support to get it dialed in. Admittedly, I didn't push for much attention, but the 250/300 crowd doesn't get much action compared to the rest of the bikes CM races. . .

April 30th, 2013, 11:31 AM	#6
JBinSD ninjette.org guru Name: Joel Location: Sandy Eggo north Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300, '99 SV650 tracked Posts: 378	thanks Matt, I agree, I need to learn more about the vocabulary and the science itself before anyone can really help me. Rebound, compression, rake, trail, travel, stroke, pre-load, its all specifically defined, and it means different things to different people. I guess I should challenge myself to figure some of this stuff out for myself. I always hated math, thats why I went to law school. . .

June 9th, 2013, 04:15 PM	#10
ahamay ninjette.org member Name: Non-ya Location: Socal Join Date: Mar 2013 Motorcycle(s): Tree Hundred Posts: 72	Bump. JB have you done anything else to the front end and have you been able to feel a difference. Last couple of times at chuck I have felt uncomfortable with the front on mine. Just doesnt feel stable and feels like I'm about to tuck the front anytime I try to up the speed. Especially turns 4/5 and 6/7. Seems like if I stay under 75mph or so it's fine but going north of 75 the front starts pushing wide and just leaves me uneasy.

June 9th, 2013, 04:44 PM	#11
rojoracing53 Fast-Guy wannabe Name: Jason Location: Brentwood, Ca Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja250, 2011 RM-Z250, 2004 NSR50, Posts: A lot. MOTM - Jan '13	Stop tweaking and just ride that B****

June 10th, 2013, 08:19 AM	#12
JBinSD ninjette.org guru Name: Joel Location: Sandy Eggo north Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300, '99 SV650 tracked Posts: 378	I have no idea how fast I go through any particular turn, but yeah, I've been tweaking the fork heighth by moving the triples up and down on the fork tube, Its kinda screwing up the geometry though, I currently have about 5 mm of tube showing above the triples, but I think I may back that off a bit again, I'm getting some unsettling chatter under load. Does anyone have a good rec for an aftermarket triple thats light and doesn't have the ignition ring on top?