Lost traction on the rear

[Linkin]

On the way to work today I had an experience that I'd not care to repeat.

The sun wasn't out to dry the roads yet, this particular road was covered in a thin layer of damp dead leaves. The road is flat and has no camber (yay city roads!). There was traffic and I was not filtering. Speed was between 20-30KM/h - not very fast.

I'd spotted the leaves and moved to the right hand side of the road to avoid most of them, and moved back into the centre of the lane. Traffic had slowed about, I slowed down to match. The car in front moved off and I gave the bike a smidgeon of throttle.

The rest all happened in less than a second or two. The RPM shot up a bit and the bike started to drift left, then quickly right-left-right again rather violently for the speed. I'd lost traction on the wet leaves. I managed to not fall off or crash the bike, thankfully. It's only been registered for day!!!

So how did I keep the bike upright? That's a question I asked myself. I went over the moment in my head and here's my analysis of the situation:

I'd passed the bulk of the wet leaves and was in my comfort zone / traffic mode.
Once traction was lost I didn't have time to think, I simply acted.
I didn't use the brakes at all
I didn't pull the clutch in as I had my grip on the bars
I kept the throttle constant
I gripped the bars tighter as a reaction to the sudden loss of traction
I kept the front end pointing where I wanted to go
I didn't put my feet down
I was gripping the tank with knees and had downward pressure on the footpegs

The loss of traction was unexpected due to my thinking that I had passed the danger, when in fact it was still there. This hampered my reaction as I was not expecting anything to happen, and I may have acted differently otherwise.

[MrAtom]

Theres not a lot you can do for losing traction sometimes. One time it was raining hard, and i lost traffic turning at an intersection on my rear wheel. I instinctively kicked the ground hard on my left (the direction i was falling) and that straightened me out pretty much instantly. This all happened pretty quickly, too, in just a matter of seconds. The best thing to do is to keep both wheels from sliding around in the first place. Any advice that can be given is useless if you fall over quicker than you can react.

[choneofakind]

You stayed up because you were moving. Motorcycles are stable while moving. Speed brings a lot of forgiveness.

In the two times I've intentionally spun up the rear on the wet pavement, I've found that the 250 doesn't really have the power to do so. Instead of a powered spin up and slide like bigger bikes, it's a temporary chugging feeling as the back wheel claws around and kinda breaks loose but snaps back to grip and stops spooling. I think you experienced this as well, from your description. When it lets loose ONLY ON THE 250!!!, pin it to keep it up. Turn into the slide, and correct it. Do it quickly and he back is no problem. Remember that this likely shouldn't ever be a concern on a 250. Only way I've gotten it to step out was from really really intentionally abusing the throttle in the wet to see if it would do it. Like snapping the throttle while leaned over and in the powerband. If you're riding smoothly (even at the limit) you should never have wheeel spin on these bikes.

[subxero]

Subtle input, that is key when traction goes. Sounds like you did just that. Kept throttle pretty much constant, didn't over steer the bike, didn't flop your body all around. Subtle inputs is key as when traction is lost a little bit of input goes a long way

[The Red Scourge]

I'll preface this by saying that I've only been riding for a year and a half. I have done a lot of riding in that time though. I've lost rear traction a few times recently. They were because I locked up the rear tire going too hard on the rear brake. Each time, I kept my upper body loose and relaxed on the bars and the bike worked itself out. I fishtailed because my rear end was trying to find traction and I was able to let it do that. If I got tight on that bars, I'm sure I would have made it worse. In my experience, the bike works itself out if I let it. Just my

I will say that every time I do something stupid to upset the bike, I learn from it. I'm not saying that you did. I just manage to do it. Glad ya kept it upright!

[Misti]

Originally Posted by Linkin

On the way to work today I had an experience that I'd not care to repeat.

The sun wasn't out to dry the roads yet, this particular road was covered in a thin layer of damp dead leaves. The road is flat and has no camber (yay city roads!). There was traffic and I was not filtering. Speed was between 20-30KM/h - not very fast.

I'd spotted the leaves and moved to the right hand side of the road to avoid most of them, and moved back into the centre of the lane. Traffic had slowed about, I slowed down to match. The car in front moved off and I gave the bike a smidgeon of throttle.

The rest all happened in less than a second or two. The RPM shot up a bit and the bike started to drift left, then quickly right-left-right again rather violently for the speed. I'd lost traction on the wet leaves. I managed to not fall off or crash the bike, thankfully. It's only been registered for day!!!

So how did I keep the bike upright? That's a question I asked myself. I went over the moment in my head and here's my analysis of the situation:

I'd passed the bulk of the wet leaves and was in my comfort zone / traffic mode.
Once traction was lost I didn't have time to think, I simply acted.
I didn't use the brakes at all
I didn't pull the clutch in as I had my grip on the bars
I kept the throttle constant
I gripped the bars tighter as a reaction to the sudden loss of traction
I kept the front end pointing where I wanted to go
I didn't put my feet down
I was gripping the tank with knees and had downward pressure on the footpegs

The loss of traction was unexpected due to my thinking that I had passed the danger, when in fact it was still there. This hampered my reaction as I was not expecting anything to happen, and I may have acted differently otherwise.

Sounds like you reacted very well to the situation and the key to staying upright is that you kept the throttle steady and didn't chop it. Most people panic when they lose traction in the rear and chop the throttle which can cause a nasty high side.

Almost all your other reactions were great as well except for the part about tightening up on the bars. Ideally you want to remain relaxed on the bars as well, but it can be very very hard to do! Gripping the tank with your knees probably helped keep extra weight off your hands as well. Good for you for keeping it upright!

Sometimes practicing sliding the rear in the dirt can help hone in your reactions so that you are less likely to panic in the same situation.

Cheers!
Misti

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Linkin

........... Speed was between 20-30KM/h - not very fast.

I'd spotted the leaves and moved to the right hand side of the road to avoid most of them, and moved back into the centre of the lane. Traffic had slowed about, I slowed down to match. The car in front moved off and I gave the bike a smidgeon of throttle.

The rest all happened in less than a second or two. The RPM shot up a bit and the bike started to drift left, then quickly right-left-right again rather violently for the speed...........

Those pesky Australian leaves ...... !!!

Your speed was 12 to 18 mph, ............ first gear may be?
You moved back into the center of the lane, that is where all the slippery fluids dripping from cars accumulate.

If you sit forward, the rear tire is unloaded and has less grip than if you sit aft.
If you suddenly open the throttle in first gear while moving slowly, you can put some torque on that contact patch.

Under that contact patch you had three effective lubricants: smoothness and softness of wet leaves, water from morning dew and the slippery fluids mentioned above.

Once the rear contact patch had reduced traction, the center of mass wanted to move ahead of the front contact patch.
Once the rear patch did swing out far enough, its reduced traction gained some sideways leverage and stopped that movement, reverting it towards the other side.
An oscillation, just like a pendulum starts: tail-fishing left and right.

The bike tends to find the less resistance to the forward movement, which is achieved with aligned direction of movement of the contact patches, even if in a parallel trajectory.
That is the reason behind the advice of letting the handlebar take a natural angle.

Rolling presents less resistance to movement than sliding; hence, as soon as both tires regain full rolling effect respect to the road, they want to get aligned quickly, inducing a high-side fall if the alignment was off enough.

You must be smooth when riding over wet roads.
You have to be supper-smooth when riding over dirty/oily wet roads.
That means that your inputs to the two most powerful controls (brake and throttle) need to transfer load to the contact patches in a gradually manner: progressive accelerations and progressive decelerations.

Take a look at this thread about a less lucky outcome:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?p=890160

[ally99]

Originally Posted by Linkin

So how did I keep the bike upright? That's a question I asked myself. I went over the moment in my head and here's my analysis of the situation:

I'd passed the bulk of the wet leaves and was in my comfort zone / traffic mode.
Once traction was lost I didn't have time to think, I simply acted.
I didn't use the brakes at all
I didn't pull the clutch in as I had my grip on the bars
I kept the throttle constant
I gripped the bars tighter as a reaction to the sudden loss of traction
I kept the front end pointing where I wanted to go
I didn't put my feet down
I was gripping the tank with knees and had downward pressure on the footpegs

The loss of traction was unexpected due to my thinking that I had passed the danger, when in fact it was still there. This hampered my reaction as I was not expecting anything to happen, and I may have acted differently otherwise.

It can happen quickly, huh? I have a comical picture from the track to show just how quickly it can happen the split second I lost traction on a wet track. I lost.
You did everything right! YES, stay on the throttle constantly. Bike's most stable that way. You were right to not touch the clutch as that destabilizes the bike as you cut power to the rear. Good not to brake while leaned until you're a track guru and learn trail braking. So for now, excellent choice!
Now, the one area I disagree with is tightening up. THe LOOSER you are, the happier and more stable the bike is. Even in worst case, say you lowsided the bike all the way to the ground, you keep looking where you want to go, stay loose on the bars and gripping with your lower body only, and keep constant on the throttle until you and the bike separate (or, more likely, you and your bike pull through it just fine because it has more lean in it than you might think. ) Anyway, worst case, crashing, looser still results in fewer injuries. It's why the drunk guy is usually more likely to live in a car crash than the sober person.
So in every single situation, loose is best. Usually, it'll save your ass from crashing, but in the times you go down, it may just save you from breaking.

My track self-pep talk: Look, lean, believe. The believe part is the hardest, and arguably, most important.