OEM vs Aftermarket/Ethanol bad for our bikes?

[A.J.]

Couple decent reads I figured I'd just put in the same thread.

http://www.bikebandit.com/blog/post/...ermarket_guide

Ethanol article

http://www.bikebandit.com/blog/post/..._081317_BBNews

[ducatiman]

Best to be proactive...Ive been pushin' the Stabil 360 (Marine) Ethanol treatment for a long time now.

We read so often (i commonly see firsthand) the nasty effects of long term storage without stabilizers/treatments.

Additives vital to keep the carbs clean and bikes running well long term...our only defense.

[A.J.]

Originally Posted by ducatiman

Best to be proactive...Ive been pushin' the Stabil 360 (Marine) Ethanol treatment for a long time now.

We read so often (i commonly see firsthand) the nasty effects of long term storage without stabilizers/treatments.

Additives vital to keep the carbs clean and bikes running well long term...our only defense.

OK @ducatiman it's called Stabil 360 Ethanol Tx? Follow the directions for usage? How often? If the carb man says use it, we should take heed.

[ducatiman]

I've had good results with the 360. Note its not the old red Stabil, Google and read up on its attributes.

1/2 oz with every fillup (where/when possible)

I'm sure other suggestions and opinions will follow (and thats ok)

[A.J.]

Originally Posted by ducatiman

I've had good results with the 360. Note its not the old red Stabil, Google and read up on its attributes.

1/2 oz with every fillup (where/when possible)

I'm sure other suggestions and opinions will follow (and thats ok)

Awesome thanks. I'll definitely pick it up.

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by ducatiman

I've had good results with the 360. Note its not the old red Stabil, Google and read up on its attributes.

1/2 oz with every fillup (where/when possible)

I'm sure other suggestions and opinions will follow (and thats ok)

Originally Posted by A.J.

Awesome thanks. I'll definitely pick it up.

Wear gloves and definitely be careful dispensing stuff. One of active ingredients has 50% kill-rate.

[A.J.]

Originally Posted by JacRyann

Wear gloves and definitely be careful dispensing stuff. One of active ingredients has 50% kill-rate.

Holy **** lol

[ducatiman]

c'mon, man...i gargle with this stuff.

The measured, long neck dispenser bottle virtually eliminates spills.

[A.J.]

Originally Posted by ducatiman

c'mon, man...i gargle with this stuff.

The measured, long neck dispenser bottle virtually eliminates spills.

Should I wear a nuclear waste suit?

[DannoXYZ]

[csmith12]

Imma be different in this thread on this subject.

I use stabil (red) one time per year, when I put my bikes up for storage in the winter or a period of time where I will not be riding it.

I am 43yrs old and have doing it this way since I was 17 and not about to change now. I don't fix things are are not broken. My dad does it with his boat too, and been that way since like.... forever.

Is there some other benefit from using the product that I am missing?

EDIT: Now... please know that my usage of a bike may not be normal. I just did a milage check on my track bike. 24k in 2.5yrs. That is a hell of alot of track miles! On a side note, its getting close to time for a new engine or new bike. Not sure what direction I will go.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Imma be different in this thread on this subject.

I use stabil (red) one time per year, when I put my bikes up for storage in the winter or a period of time where I will not be riding it.

I am 43yrs old and have doing it this way since I was 17 and not about to change now. I don't fix things are are not broken. My dad does it with his boat too, and been that way since like.... forever.

Is there some other benefit from using the product that I am missing?

EDIT: Now... please know that my usage of a bike may not be normal. I just did a milage check on my track bike. 24k in 2.5yrs. That is a hell of alot of track miles! On a side note, its getting close to time for a new engine or new bike. Not sure what direction I will go.

Are you using ethanol-free gas? If so, the product is of little benefit.

If I understand it correctly, it's designed for use with ethanol gas, and stops the phase separation and moisture collection that happens when ethanol is blended with gasoline.

[csmith12]

Nah, mostly 10% in my area. A few stations with 15% that I pass along the way. :\ But thanks for the info, I will check into it more.

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by jkv45

Are you using ethanol-free gas? If so, the product is of little benefit.

If I understand it correctly, it's designed for use with ethanol gas, and stops the phase separation and moisture collection that happens when ethanol is blended with gasoline.

Traditional Stabil has been around long before ethanol gas. It used to be primarily 2-propanol and was changed to mostly deodorized kerosene. This lowers the RVP - Reid vapour pressure property of gasoline so it evaporates slower. Rather than clogging up your carbs with dried gas over winter, it'll still be liquid by spring. Winter-blends of gas tend to be more volatile for easier evaporation and cleaner emissions on cold-starts in winter.

Newer Stabil 360 is also mostly deodorized kerosene and does evaporation suppression. It also has a miscible polar compound that absorbs moisture faster than ethanol. And a stabilizer compound that counter-acts strongly oxidizing effect of the moisture-absorber.

[maverick9611]

Originally Posted by ducatiman

I've had good results with the 360. Note its not the old red Stabil, Google and read up on its attributes.

1/2 oz with every fillup (where/when possible)

I'm sure other suggestions and opinions will follow (and thats ok)

i see they make a sta-bil 360 performance that in non marine. what's the difference?

[A.J.]

Originally Posted by maverick9611

i see they make a sta-bil 360 performance that in non marine. what's the difference?

Hmmm I'm interested in knowing this as well.
@ducatiman ?

[maverick9611]

obviously the stable 360 regular is for cars where is the marine is for small engine and boats but why are we recommended to use the marine in the ninja 250?after reading all the good things that it does I might buy the stable 360 regular for my car's

[ducatiman]

i have been suggesting and using 360 marine as the 360 performance pictured *didn't exist* at the time

hey give it a whirl

[maverick9611]

i subscribed. shipmate every 3 months (save $3)

[maverick9611]

just filled up, i've got my marine 360 in 1/2 ounce. last tank i avg. 40 mpg

[maverick9611]

Originally Posted by maverick9611

just filled up, i've got my marine 360 in 1/2 ounce. last tank i avg. 40 mpg

lets keep this thread going on mpg/performance.

[ducatiman]

40 mpg is less than stellar fuel consumption on a 250.

Note I suggest using the 360 as a *preventative* (especially AFTER my carb service is completed)...never intended to suggest as a full tuneup replacement in a bottle.

Expecting an ethanol treatment to compensate for, or radically improve that MPG is likely unreasonable, if that is your goal

I'd respectfully suggest to consider and review your tuning parameters...especially valve clearances and carb settings...while still using the 360.

[maverick9611]

will find out on the next tank, some members only average 40-45 mpg. motor has 5000 miles on it. i'm not gonna sweat it, will see what happens. i'm running stock needles with 3 washers and 100 mains. carbs bench synced. snorkel removed with a uni filter.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by maverick9611

will find out on the next tank, some members only average 40-45 mpg. motor has 5000 miles on it. i'm not gonna sweat it, will see what happens. i'm running stock needles with 3 washers and 100 mains. carbs bench synced. snorkel removed with a uni filter.

3 washers may be too much, and is making your midrange too rich - which is killing your mileage.

100 Main may be on the rich side as well.

Do you run WOT a lot, and rev over 10,000 regularly? We had a '90 Ninja with pods, 2 washers, and 108 Mains, and it was getting about 50 mpg while spending most of it's time over 10,000 and a lot of time at WOT.

Are you running 87 octane with ethanol?

Have you looked at your plugs?

Are you riding in-town, hwy, or a mix?

[maverick9611]

Originally Posted by jkv45

3 washers may be too much, and is making your midrange too rich - which is killing your mileage.

100 Main may be on the rich side as well.

Do you run WOT a lot, and rev over 10,000 regularly? We had a '90 Ninja with pods, 2 washers, and 108 Mains, and it was getting about 50 mpg while spending most of it's time over 10,000 and a lot of time at WOT.

Are you running 87 octane with ethanol?

Have you looked at your plugs?

Are you riding in-town, hwy, or a mix?

i tried 2 but mid had a nasty lean spot. i commute and do the occasional ride. no on plugs, getting ready for stick coil conversion soon. yes 87 with ethanol. yes i ride it hard and shift 10-12000 rom. it pulls hard to redline. runs fine. every motor combo is different.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by maverick9611

i tried 2 but mid had a nasty lean spot. i commute and do the occasional ride. no on plugs, getting ready for stock coil conversion soon. yes 87 with ethanol. yes i ride it hard and shift 10-12000 rom. it pulls hard to redline. runs fine. every motor combo is different.

Shouldn't have had a "nasty" lean spot with 2 shims with the setup you have.

Have you adjusted you idle mixture screws? They should be in the 2.5 turns out range, or pretty close.

The plug color would give you a general indication of the overall mixture.

Removing the snorkel isn't always an improvement. If you were looking for better mileage, I'd try with it back in.

[maverick9611]

Originally Posted by jkv45

Shouldn't have had a "nasty" lean spot with 2 shims with the setup you have.

Have you adjusted you idle mixture screws? They should be in the 2.5 turns out range, or pretty close.

The plug color would give you a general indication of the overall mixture.

Removing the snorkel isn't always an improvement. If you were looking for better mileage, I'd try with it back in.

no i really don't care about mileage. the bike is running great all carb circuits are doing their job. it idles fine and has no lean spots or hangs. my mixtures are 3 ish. every motor,carb is different. if i'm a little rich oh well

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by maverick9611

no i really don't care about mileage. the bike is running great all carb circuits are doing their job. it idles fine and has no lean spots or hangs. my mixtures are 3 ish. every motor,carb is different. if i'm a little rich oh well

Sorry - I thought you did.

Nevermind...

[maverick9611]

Originally Posted by jkv45

Shouldn't have had a "nasty" lean spot with 2 shims with the setup you have.

Have you adjusted you idle mixture screws? They should be in the 2.5 turns out range, or pretty close.

The plug color would give you a general indication of the overall mixture.

Removing the snorkel isn't always an improvement. If you were looking for better mileage, I'd try with it back in.

no worries, i tried a lot of different combos but this seems to work. i appreciate everbodies ideas/knowledge and always save for a set up history. they are quite valuable in tuning. glad i bought the motion pro pilot screw adjuster!

[A.J.]

55MPG mostly at 30-45mph but fair share of 55+. Just filled her up again today with the marine type. Same as last fill up. Ducatiman didn't intend to put this stuff out there as a solution to helping gas mileage. Just as something to help counter potential damage caused by ethanol. That's how I took it anyway.

[maverick9611]

Originally Posted by jkv45

3 washers may be too much, and is making your midrange too rich - which is killing your mileage.

100 Main may be on the rich side as well.

Do you run WOT a lot, and rev over 10,000 regularly? We had a '90 Ninja with pods, 2 washers, and 108 Mains, and it was getting about 50 mpg while spending most of it's time over 10,000 and a lot of time at WOT.

Are you running 87 octane with ethanol?

Have you looked at your plugs?

Are you riding in-town, hwy, or a mix?

looks like i'll being back into carbs and start over. i ran out of gas @ 184 miles. was 3 miles from home ,wifey saved the day. i agree it's running rich but it runs great. gonna put the 98's back in and work on needles.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by jkv45

3 washers may be too much, and is making your midrange too rich - which is killing your mileage.

100 Main may be on the rich side as well.

Do you run WOT a lot, and rev over 10,000 regularly? We had a '90 Ninja with pods, 2 washers, and 108 Mains, and it was getting about 50 mpg while spending most of it's time over 10,000 and a lot of time at WOT.

Are you running 87 octane with ethanol?

Have you looked at your plugs?

Are you riding in-town, hwy, or a mix?

I jumped from 105 to 110 mains, no shims and I'm very satisfied with my 250's performance. 100 M.P.H. (indicated) , 15/42 sprockets 6th gear anytime. What a-lot of folks don't realize is that a change in the main jet affects fuel/air mixture from 25% to 100% throttle. I purchased shims that I will never use. Anyone need some?

Bill

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by A.J.

Couple decent reads I figured I'd just put in the same thread.

http://www.bikebandit.com/blog/post/...ermarket_guide

Ethanol article

http://www.bikebandit.com/blog/post/..._081317_BBNews

Good reading AJ. Especially regarding the fuel. I only use Exxon/Mobil high test in everything I own. Mobil engineers go a long way to formulate their gasoline to combat many of the fuel gremlins we have to deal with today. It's my most trusted fuel since the demise of Sunoco 260. They make some pretty darn good engine oil also.

Bill

[maverick9611]

plugs look good to me

bike runs fine. quite strange, i have 98's on the way but my plugs sure don't show it.

[DannoXYZ]

Here's comparison of my race vs. street N250R, both 2008 models:

RACE left - 96 Dynojet mains, no washers on needles, Tyga full-exhaust, about +10% more flow and power

STREET right - 98 stock mains, all factory exhaust



Kinda confirms numerous postings and magazine-article of racing 250 that mains were too rich in factory trim. I've got slightly smaller mains than stock (actual size in MM) and flow-enhancing mods, yet jetting is now spot-on. Huge difference noticeable when hoping back and forth between them; street-bike feels gutless!

Anyone remember that '60s hot-rod saying?

[maverick9611]

my plugs don't look rich.

[DannoXYZ]

Yours look pretty good. Richness occurs at +60-70% throttle from +7000rpms onwards. If you're not WOT all the time, mixture will be fine.

[ducatiman]

yet stock jetted/exhaust 250's are reported to routinely yield + 50 MPG consumption and maverick reported 40 earlier in the thread.

What MPG your street bike getting, JacRyan? You've accurately set the pilot screws?

I realize your racebike MPG is impertinent, but no doubt you've got Dynojet needles in there too?

[maverick9611]

after running out of gas at 184 miles, I computed 38 miles to the gallon. bike runs great and pulls hard. my plugs look great. i have stick coils going in and iridium plugs too. maybe i'll leave 100's in and run another tank and see.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by maverick9611

my plugs don't look rich.

Your plugs look terrific. Possibly a tad lean? Maybe.

Bill