will a mesh jacket protect you from road rash??

[venmichaels]

i recently bought this 95$ BILT mesh jacket from cycle gear...
I realize that its a cheap summer jacket.. and the padding is pretty lame..
But will it save my skin from road rash if i go down??

[blink]

If it's mesh then it will, it'll depend on how fast you go, since there is less; it'll be rated for lower speeds. I'd ask who you bought it from or simply return it if you don't feel safe

[setasai]

For $95 you can pretty easily get an excellent mesh jacket with CE armor and fine mesh. If you dont feel protected with it, like Blink said, return it and get one that you do feel comfortable with. Also, dont underestimate the ventilation in some textile jackets. They can be very nice as well and provide adequate protection.

[Flashmonkey]

I don't know...and I hope to never find out.

[planet-beaver]

don't they all have solid fabric where it matters most. the two i have do.

[EsrTek]

My vega mesh jacket was great in my, low speed high side.
Landed on my shoulder and the padding worked great, even though I thought the cheap foam wouldn't do much.
Mesh stayed great for the little slid it did take, besides the gravel in the mesh you couldn't tell where it hit and it washed out w/ wet paper towel.

I've was told it would do good sub 30mph, anything over 50mph it will probably start to melt. So, I always have that in back of mind.

[CodeProofMonk]

In my experience it's really based on the quality of the jacket.

My fiance crashed during the MSF course last year. Against my recommendations she bought a cheap jacket from an online vendor. Even though she was only going around 20mph, her right arm had a long rash from just above her elbow up to her shoulder.

Back in April, I went down at about 45mph in my Joe Rocket mesh jacket. Not exactly top of the line, but a decent jacket. For the most part the jacket did it's job. I slid off the road and onto the shoulder and only had a very small amount of road rash on my left forearm.

In terms of protection, I think it goes Leather > Textile > Mesh.

[gfloyd2002]

Yes they can, depending on where you hit the road and what kind of material the mesh jacket has in that spot. Most mesh jackets have cordura or other protective fabric in the spots where you are most likely to come in contact with the road. The better mesh jackets have better protection over better areas. The cheaper jackets may also use a cheaper (non-dynex) mesh made of polyester that can melt under high friction and create problems for your skin. The BiLT jacket has 600D cordura in key spots, with CE approved armor in shoulders and elbows, and uses the polyster mesh. That is sort of bare minimum, but should be fine for speeds around town and most basic riding. I went down in a similar mesh jacket at low speed and it worked very well. I would be more hesitant about using it at higher speeds with challenging conditions, and certainly never on a track.

After much research, I've upgraded from my basic mesh jacket to one that offerers woven ceramic abrasion resistant impact points and dynex mesh, and I feel comfortable that it would protect me in a high speed getoff. To compare the road rash readiness of different materials, here is an excerpt from a blog post I've made:

How Far Something Can Drag on Asphalt Before You Hit Skin:

New 100% Cotton Denim Jeans -------------------- 3' 10"
Balistic Nylon ------------------------------------- 3' 10"
Leather, Lightweight, Nude Finish, 2.25 oz/sq. ft. --- 4' 3"
Leather, Fashion Weight, 1.75 oz/sq ft. ------------- 4' 4"
Two-year-old 100% Cotton Denim Jeans ------------ 4' 5"
440D Cordura Nylon ------------------------------- 18' 3"
Kevlar 29 Aramid Fiber, Style 713 ------------------ 22' 1"
Leather, Competition Weight, 3 oz/sq. ft. ---------- 86' 0"

Tear and Abrasion Strength:

CottonJeans ----------------- 4.5 pounds to tear 50 cycles to failure
70 Denier Standard Nylon----- 4.5 pounds to tear 165 cycles to failure
500 Denier Polyester---------- 8 pounds to tear 180 cycles to failure
200 Denier Standard Nylon---- 7.5 pounds to tear 275 cycles to failure
500 Denier Cordura----------- 22 pounds to tear 710 cycles to failure
620 Denier Cordura----------- 35 pounds to tear 1200 cycles to failure
Competition Grade Leather---- 80-110 pounds to tear 1200-1700 cycles to failure
1000 Denier Cordura---------- 110 pounds to tear 1780 cycles to failure
Kevlar----------------------- 1260 pounds to tear 970 cycles to failure

Abrasion Strength - Taber Industries:

Two-year-old 100% Cotton Denim Jeans ---- 168
New 100% Cotton Denim Jeans ------------- 225
Kevlar 29 Aramid Fiber, Style 713 ----------- 506
440 D Cordura Nylon ------------------------559
Leather, Lightweight, 2.25 oz./sq. ft.-------- 564
Leather, Fashion Weight, 1.75 oz./sq. ft. -----750
Senior Ballistic Nylon ------------------------817
Leather, Competition Weight, 3 oz./sq. ft. --- 2600

Seconds of Drag on Asphalt Before Getting Holes:

Denim ---------------------------------0.2 to 0.5
Textile gloves -------------------------0.6
Most leather gloves---------------------1.0 to 1.8
Keprotec stretch material---------------0.9
Poor Kevlar-----------------------------1.0
Two layers of waxed cotton------------ 1.3
1.3mm thick cow hide ------------------3.8
Two layers of 1.3mm thick cowhide------18
Three layers of 1.3mm thick cowhide-----55
Two layers of Kevlar plain weave---------5.6
Suede ---------------------------------18
Boot leather (generally 2.2mm thick)-----20
Leather stretch panels------------------20.4

[ally99]

Very informative post. Thanks Floyd!

[CynicalC]

Originally Posted by gfloyd2002

Yes they can, depending on where you hit the road and what kind of material the mesh jacket has in that spot. Most mesh jackets have cordura or other protective fabric in the spots where you are most likely to come in contact with the road. The better mesh jackets have better protection over better areas. The cheaper jackets may also use a cheaper (non-dynex) mesh made of polyester that can melt under high friction and create problems for your skin. The BiLT jacket has 600D cordura in key spots, with CE approved armor in shoulders and elbows, and uses the polyster mesh. That is sort of bare minimum, but should be fine for speeds around town and most basic riding. I went down in a similar mesh jacket at low speed and it worked very well. I would be more hesitant about using it at higher speeds with challenging conditions, and certainly never on a track.

After much research, I've upgraded from my basic mesh jacket to one that offerers woven ceramic abrasion resistant impact points and dynex mesh, and I feel comfortable that it would protect me in a high speed getoff. To compare the road rash readiness of different materials, here is an excerpt from a blog post I've made:

How Far Something Can Drag on Asphalt Before You Hit Skin:

New 100% Cotton Denim Jeans -------------------- 3' 10"
Balistic Nylon ------------------------------------- 3' 10"
Leather, Lightweight, Nude Finish, 2.25 oz/sq. ft. --- 4' 3"
Leather, Fashion Weight, 1.75 oz/sq ft. ------------- 4' 4"
Two-year-old 100% Cotton Denim Jeans ------------ 4' 5"
440D Cordura Nylon ------------------------------- 18' 3"
Kevlar 29 Aramid Fiber, Style 713 ------------------ 22' 1"
Leather, Competition Weight, 3 oz/sq. ft. ---------- 86' 0"

Tear and Abrasion Strength:

CottonJeans ----------------- 4.5 pounds to tear 50 cycles to failure
70 Denier Standard Nylon----- 4.5 pounds to tear 165 cycles to failure
500 Denier Polyester---------- 8 pounds to tear 180 cycles to failure
200 Denier Standard Nylon---- 7.5 pounds to tear 275 cycles to failure
500 Denier Cordura----------- 22 pounds to tear 710 cycles to failure
620 Denier Cordura----------- 35 pounds to tear 1200 cycles to failure
Competition Grade Leather---- 80-110 pounds to tear 1200-1700 cycles to failure
1000 Denier Cordura---------- 110 pounds to tear 1780 cycles to failure
Kevlar----------------------- 1260 pounds to tear 970 cycles to failure

Abrasion Strength - Taber Industries:

Two-year-old 100% Cotton Denim Jeans ---- 168
New 100% Cotton Denim Jeans ------------- 225
Kevlar 29 Aramid Fiber, Style 713 ----------- 506
440 D Cordura Nylon ------------------------559
Leather, Lightweight, 2.25 oz./sq. ft.-------- 564
Leather, Fashion Weight, 1.75 oz./sq. ft. -----750
Senior Ballistic Nylon ------------------------817
Leather, Competition Weight, 3 oz./sq. ft. --- 2600

Seconds of Drag on Asphalt Before Getting Holes:

Denim ---------------------------------0.2 to 0.5
Textile gloves -------------------------0.6
Most leather gloves---------------------1.0 to 1.8
Keprotec stretch material---------------0.9
Poor Kevlar-----------------------------1.0
Two layers of waxed cotton------------ 1.3
1.3mm thick cow hide ------------------3.8
Two layers of 1.3mm thick cowhide------18
Three layers of 1.3mm thick cowhide-----55
Two layers of Kevlar plain weave---------5.6
Suede ---------------------------------18
Boot leather (generally 2.2mm thick)-----20
Leather stretch panels------------------20.4

I guess this is good for comparing materials, but I don't see how it can be even close to accurate with variables like weight and friction.

[Xoulrath]

Originally Posted by setasai

Also, dont underestimate the ventilation in some textile jackets. They can be very nice as well and provide adequate protection.

I agree with setasai. I have an A*s Stunt Textile that flows air well. I also feel protected in it; well as much as you can short of a track suit. Leather may give me more abrasion resistance but the textile is fine for reasonable street speeds.

I'm not gonna lie to you, though, it gets hot sometimes. I was sweating my rear off today. I guess the humidity did go up as we got a good two days of thunderstorms. On the bike while I was moving it was fine, which is usual. But man, I definitely longed for some mesh today while I was sitting in traffic.

My wife has a mesh that she uses for summer and she seems to like it. She said she was cool on our ride out to the mall this evening. I however was still sweating my rear off, even though the temps had dropped. Damn humidity.

If you can only afford one jacket, I would recommend something stronger than mesh. Otherwise keep the $95 jacket if you like it, and get something heavier when you need it. And as has been stated, there are plenty of quality mesh jackets available for around $100.

Just be warned: Apparently it is very easy to get stung through mesh. My wife got stung today. This was the second time this week in as many rides.

[coondog]

$95 is not cheap for a mesh jacket. It's more like you way overpaid for a cheap jacket. Top quality armored mesh can be had for $125 and up. Many people talk about cordura which is a confusing thing to me, however I do know the "D" rated with a lower number (not Denier spelled out) is the best of them, just like "kevlar" , all kinds but which aren't that good unless it's made with aramid fibers. On top of everything you should know through rider awareness in most cases that you're "going down" and there are proper ways of doing even this ugly act. My high speed put down (yes I put her down) all I got was a broken pinky finger, that's how close i came to making a full 180 onto my back to slide properly. I dont buy coats without armor strap ins after frying my elbow against a wall in a 180 high speed turn, my elbow armor was just pushed aside and made useless. I don't take pillions nor do I sell to people I know, couldn't live with it. However I sold my CB750 to a guy in jeans and a members only, and ended up taking him shopping in Fall River, Ma. with his (mine) money to be better suited for the monster. And made him promise no steel toes on next work boots and they'd be over-ankle height, plus gave him an original KBC Drab Green with the single white star (still regret).
The community has had great responses for you. Personally, Bilt is crap, return it and get the cheapest top shelf mesh which right now is Vanson Air Mesh. Just get some cargo (pockets) kevlars, but with the aramid meave, and probably a 400 scorpion helmet (not really up on everything). Roo is supposedly best glove material but go with the Olympia Glove Co. (not olympia clothing co.). Remember I used the term "members only." Best thing I learnt was to get with your community before, not after purchases. Peace Out and good luck bro.

[gfloyd2002]

Agree with coondog about benefits of riding skills, and the quality of the Vanson jackets. Just to follow up on Cordura:

Originally Posted by coondog

Many people talk about cordura which is a confusing thing to me, however I do know the "D" rated with a lower number (not Denier spelled out) is the best of them

There are two things that matter in determining stength of the fabric, the type of fabric and its thickness. Cordura is a brand name for synthetic (and sometimes sythetic blend) fibers that are designed for durability and rough use. Its price/toughness is probably best, making it the most common fabric used for abrasion resistance in motorcycle gear after leather. The thickness is shown by the "D" rating, which is short for "denier", a measurement of the density of weave (the linear mass density of fibers at grams/9000 meters of yarn). You want the highest "D" rating you can get, because you want more dense fibers to better resist abrasion. 600D is minimum, 1000D is very good, 1680D is the really top quality stuff.

[Linuss]

I have an A* Air Flo mesh jacket, typical price of $175, has CE shoulder sand elbows, with solid material at the elbows and shoulder as well.




I lowsided going about 40. Hit my shoulder, but had no clue as the armor took the brunt of it and the only reason I knew was seeing the dirt on the shoulder.

My left arm was sore, but tends to happen when you land on it.

I had a small friction burn to my left elbow, but only because I had the jacket rather loose (not anymore!).





Yes, mesh can, and does, work.

[gfloyd2002]

Originally Posted by CynicalC

I guess this is good for comparing materials, but I don't see how it can be even close to accurate with variables like weight and friction.

Weight and friction were strictly controlled in the tests so that the materials could be compared. While the tests were designed to simulate an actual fall by an actual motorcyclist, the point of the test was to get the relative strengths of different materials found in motorcycle gear. These figures shouldn't be used to actually go out and skid for the precise distances listed - your weight and friction may vary and you could come up a few feet short - but they should be used to see that some materials are vastly superior to others to protect you.

Jeans, for example, are terrible for riding in.

[setasai]

Originally Posted by gfloyd2002

Jeans, for example, are terrible for riding in.

It's so unfortunate the most stylish and popular material is the most useless in the practicality department.

[DarkNinja52]

Originally Posted by gfloyd2002

Jeans, for example, are terrible for riding in.

As true as that may be, they're better than shorts - I've seen way too much of that around here

[setasai]

Even if you dont concern yourself with road rash and hard armor, wearing shorts and tshirts leave you with tanlines or worse, sunburns. Sunburns suck and tanlines take forever to even out. Atleast on me they do.

[DarkNinja52]

Originally Posted by setasai

Even if you dont concern yourself with road rash and hard armor, wearing shorts and tshirts leave you with tanlines or worse, sunburns. Sunburns suck and tanlines take forever to even out. Atleast on me they do.

+1.... they DO take forever!! and with sunburn you start peeling usually! its just an overall bad situation imho

[JeffM]

I have a Cortech HRX series 1 jacket and is is, I suppose, the best of both worlds. It has hard armor and leather over the impact areas and mesh on the chest, back, and portion of the arms. Here is the latest HRX series 2 version: http://www.tourmaster.com/xcart/prod...tid=266&cat=25



I crashed once wearing it and it is still serviceable: Rash-ed up on the forearm/elbow and the fabric has a couple of small holes in the mesh stomach area from the slide. Saved my skin.

An all mesh jacket may have worn through on the elbows/forearm during my slide.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by gfloyd2002

How Far Something Can Drag on Asphalt Before You Hit Skin:

New 100% Cotton Denim Jeans -------------------- 3' 10"
Balistic Nylon ------------------------------------- 3' 10"
Leather, Lightweight, Nude Finish, 2.25 oz/sq. ft. --- 4' 3"
Leather, Fashion Weight, 1.75 oz/sq ft. ------------- 4' 4"
Two-year-old 100% Cotton Denim Jeans ------------ 4' 5"
440D Cordura Nylon ------------------------------- 18' 3"
Kevlar 29 Aramid Fiber, Style 713 ------------------ 22' 1"
Leather, Competition Weight, 3 oz/sq. ft. ---------- 86' 0"

Good info Floyd.

Its interesting that old jeans do better than new ones. This also answers my concern that not all leather is created equal. I have had discussions with other riders that insist that leather is always better than mesh. If they are comparing best leather to best mesh, then its probably true. But according to your chart, its possible to have a cut rate leather jacket made out of stuff that wont do as good as a two year old pair of jeans.

[gfloyd2002]

Note also that 1000D did extremely well in the one test that included it, and 1680D Cordura weren't even tested. Nor was Superfabric, which is a relatively new woven ceramic, that I think would best all the other fabrics. The bias towards leather in motorcycling borders on religious zeal, when there really are great, safe, non-leather options available.

[JeffM]

Originally Posted by drsketch

300$ wow, you can get leather for cheaper than that

A web search shows you can find the jacket for $160-$300. It is a bit pricey; however, it is one of the few mesh/leather combo jackets out there.

Jeff

[ducducgooseit]

Originally Posted by gfloyd2002

Note also that 1000D did extremely well in the one test that included it, and 1680D Cordura weren't even tested. Nor was Superfabric, which is a relatively new woven ceramic, that I think would best all the other fabrics. The bias towards leather in motorcycling borders on religious zeal, when there really are great, safe, non-leather options available.

When the Moto2, WSBK, and MotoGP riders move en masse to suits made of superfabric and not animal hides, I too will join that religion. For now, my religion forces me to follow the herd with leathers.

IMO, the mesh jackets are better than nothing and frequently the least expensive entry into protecting your skin, but keep in mind anything is cheaper than skin grafts.


Oh, and I'm not a gear nazi. But, I do like to buy gloves, lots of gloves, mmmmmm gloves ....

[rockNroll]

Most of the people I have seen down in textiles ended up a mess. Lots of rash and blood and the textiles are beyond ruined. Some come out better. Don't really need to read test results when you've seen real life results.

"I'm getting leather for now on" seems to be a real popular statement after going down in textiles.

[n4mwd]

RE: "I'm getting leather for now on"

I have heard other guys say this as well, but they were all track whores. When they go down, its at 100+ mph. Another thing I have heard the same bunch say is "Mesh is for one time use only". Again, if you slide at speeds greater than 45 mph its probably true too.

However, in my case, I have gone down twice at low speed and the jacket saved me from harm and is still in good shape.