ninjette.org

Go Back   ninjette.org > 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R > 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 27th, 2018, 02:22 PM   #1
Haynix
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Adam
Location: Durham, NC
Join Date: Jul 2018

Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250

Posts: 10
Unhappy Right-Hand Cylinder not firing

Seemingly at random my right-hand cylinder will go into a phase of either not firing or flooding. It will struggle to get past 5k RPM, and when idling it will very slowly die. The right exhaust will very clearly smell of unburnt gasoline, and will backfire. It runs fine 90% of the time but will have a spell of this. Usually after bike has been ridden awhile, but has happened when cold. I can't discern a clear pattern. When issue is occuring, right exhaust will sometimes smoke but I honestly can't tell what color.

This is a new-to-me (and first bike!) 2007 ex250R with 4000 miles. Previous owner let bike sit in garage and gas crystalized. Other than that, it's in excellent shape.

I cleaned carbs and replaced gaskets / float needles with a kit. Properly adjusted float levels with micrometer (twice). Mixture screws at 2.5 turns (360+360+180). Cleaned/dried gas tank and petcock. Only used Ethanol-free gas since then. Added a K&N KA-2586 Air Filter. Added generic In-line fuel filter from Autozone. Changed Oil and filter with Rotella. Lubed chain (and cables).

Recently bought new NGK spark plugs which seemed to fix the issue but it has returned after about 150 miles. The original right spark plug was significantly more blackened than the other.

I have done basic vacuum test with Starting Fluid sprayed on the carb boots, but it didn't seem to affect it. Maybe a couple hundred RPM. Have not done compression test. Normal operating temperature is about halfway between dead-center and the first warm mark... fan rarely turns on. I am concerned the fuel line from tank to carb might be affecting it, I didn't have the exact right size hose clamps when installing the fuel filter so it's a bit loose. Fuel filter is usually about half or 3/4 full (on its side).

I put a moderate amount of Seafoam in the gas (maybe 2-3 ounces per gallon) but it doesn't seem to have affected anything.

Considering the strong smell of gasoline from 1 exhaust, it seems to be no-spark or rich/flooding.

Next Steps: considering replacing the coil on right side. Will pull plugs this weekend to check for fouling.


Any ideas?
(Also, should I rejet with that air filter?)



Fuel Filter:
https://www.autozone.com/ignition-tu...2_953903_17721

K&N Air Filter:
https://www.knfilters.com/search/pro...x?prod=KA-2586

K&L Carb Rebuild Kit:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NEW-KAWAS...72.m2749.l2649

NGK 2086 Spark Plugs:
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...hTerm=NGK+2086
Haynix is offline   Reply With Quote




Old September 27th, 2018, 02:46 PM   #2
Triple Jim
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
 
Triple Jim's Avatar
 
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16
Before replacing the coil, you could swap them and see if the problem moves.

If you ever want to try a fuel additive to remove deposits, try Techron or an equivalent that contains polyetheramine (PEA). That can actually do some good, as opposed to Seafoam.
Triple Jim is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 27th, 2018, 07:38 PM   #3
dodgerdad
ninjette.org guru
 
dodgerdad's Avatar
 
Name: Hector
Location: SoCal
Join Date: Sep 2018

Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250

Posts: 272
+1 for swapping the coils. Love me some free diagnostics.
__________________________________________________
When you see me, it's already too late.
dodgerdad is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 27th, 2018, 08:00 PM   #4
csmith12
The Corner Whisperer
 
csmith12's Avatar
 
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track)

Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
swap coils, then swap plugs, check valves and then do a leak down test

the problem should reveal itself
csmith12 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 28th, 2018, 04:32 PM   #5
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
What process did you use to clean carbs?

Do compression-test and post results here.

Also manually check and look at spark:

1. unplug spark-wire
2. insert spare spark-plug into plug-wire
3. ground case of spark to engine
4. crank

Is spark blue & bright? Or dim and yellow?

Just because cylinder isn't running right, doesn't mean it's only spark being problem. It could be valves, rings and sealing. It could be fuel as we haven't measured actual AFR in exhaust of that cylinder to confirm it's good or not. And if it's really spark, could be various causes such as plugs, plug-wires, coil, power & trigger wires between igniter and coil, or the igniter itself or crank triggers and their wires.

So LOTs of possible causes. Don't narrow yourself down to just one possible culprit when there's 16 others to test.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 5th, 2018, 09:14 AM   #6
Haynix
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Adam
Location: Durham, NC
Join Date: Jul 2018

Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250

Posts: 10
Unhappy

Tested spark, it's fine.

Pulled carb, cleaned with carb cleaner, reset mixture screws to 2.5 turns, verified ~17mm float heights, verified diaphragms in good shape, reassembled. There was a small bit of crystallized gas in bottom of float bowls and in one of the main jets. Thought I had gotten it all but evidently not. Should be clean now.

The right cylinder is firing now, but the exhaust pulse from the right cylinder is still significantly weaker than the other cylinder. It still seems to favor alot of enrichment(choke) during startup until it warms up.

NEW PROBLEM: it's running really hard during idle, upon starting the RPM will immediately race up to 4~7k RPM and idle there. Idle thumbscrew is totally backed off of the throttle, throttle cables are adjusted fine, throttle itself seems totally normal.

I bought a mixture screw adjuster. I adjusted mixture screws while carb was on and it doesn't seem to have a large effect. Tried 3 turns, 1 turn, 0 turns.
Still racing during idle, but slightly less rpms the leaner mixture setting.

Also I think my battery is dying. I'm using a mobile car battery jumpstarter kit to start the bike. Might just need to charge, idk.

have not checked valves, vacuum test, leakdown test. Considering taking it to a shop, i'm going crazy!

Next Steps: check spark plugs for fowling etc., remove K&N air filter to see if anything changes, swap coils. Maybe check valves if i have time.
Haynix is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 5th, 2018, 09:57 AM   #7
greg737
-
 
Name: -
Location: -
Join Date: May 2009

Motorcycle(s): -

Posts: A lot.
Have you looked into the engine's top end?

It would be good to verify that everything is as it should be in the valvetrain area. Do you have any history on whether or not the valves have every been adjusted? If the valves have never been checked/adjusted that might be (at least part of) your problem.

And I'm not just talking about a valve being a little too tight or a little too loose...

Because... it's also possible that somebody got in there and did a really lousy job of adjusting the valves and really screwed something up. Yes, in cases like your newly purchased bike (low miles bike that sat for a long time) there's often a maintenance related reason why the previous owner let the bike sit for so long. If the bike just doesn't run well enough (and the reason why is unknown) to be enjoyable it will often end up pushed to the back of the garage and ignored.

There could even be a broken valve rocker arm or a missing (lying loose inside the head) rocker arm on one of the right-hand cylinder's valves as a result of an incorrectly executed valve adjustment. In case you don't already now it, the EX250's valve actuation rocker arms will sometimes crack in half (if accidentally adjusted too tight) or will sometimes fall out from under the camshaft lobe (if accidentally adjusted too loose).
greg737 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 5th, 2018, 10:02 AM   #8
Haynix
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Adam
Location: Durham, NC
Join Date: Jul 2018

Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250

Posts: 10
@greg no I haven't looked at top end. I don't have maintenance history on bike either. I'm kindof thinking the problem could be in there. In which case I'm just gonna take it to a shop. I don't want to do a lousy job of tuning the top end myself.

Thanks for your help guys. I'm gonna start it up when i get home today and if its still being crazy i'll probably take it to my local shop.
Haynix is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 5th, 2018, 10:07 AM   #9
greg737
-
 
Name: -
Location: -
Join Date: May 2009

Motorcycle(s): -

Posts: A lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haynix View Post
@greg no I haven't looked at top end. I don't have maintenance history on bike either. I'm kindof thinking the problem could be in there. In which case I'm just gonna take it to a shop. I don't want to do a lousy job of tuning the top end myself.

Thanks for your help guys. I'm gonna start it up when i get home today and if its still being crazy i'll probably take it to my local shop.
At this point I always glance at the owner's location (your location) to see if you're nearby. Too bad you're not in the Denver area, I'd offer to do the top end inspection/work with you in your own garage. Really, doing a valve adjustment on an EX250 is pretty straightforward and, if you're a gear-head type, if you're willing to carefully follow instructions, it's both enjoyable and relaxing.

Good luck getting the bike sorted.
greg737 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 5th, 2018, 02:36 PM   #10
Haynix
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Adam
Location: Durham, NC
Join Date: Jul 2018

Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250

Posts: 10
It's idling at about 2500 rpm.

It will only start with a jump. If I just use battery the fuse box will buzz. That's normal right? Just a dead battery?

Is there a possibility of electrical issues?
Haynix is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 5th, 2018, 02:55 PM   #11
greg737
-
 
Name: -
Location: -
Join Date: May 2009

Motorcycle(s): -

Posts: A lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haynix View Post
It's idling at about 2500 rpm.

It will only start with a jump. If I just use battery the fuse box will buzz. That's normal right? Just a dead battery?

Is there a possibility of electrical issues?
A known-good battery is where you should start this trouble shooting from. A dying battery can make the bike's electrical system act weird, it can make it very hard to diagnose anything else when this is the situation.

Any idea how old the battery is? There's probably a date code printed somewhere on the batter, sometimes it's impressed into the plastic of the battery otherwise it should be printed onto the battery. Then you search the battery type to find out how to read the manufacturer's date code.

You could take it to an auto parts place or a Batteries+Bulbs and have the battery tested. People are very reluctant to replace batteries, wishing they would last forever, but they don't.
greg737 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 8th, 2018, 08:13 AM   #12
Haynix
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Adam
Location: Durham, NC
Join Date: Jul 2018

Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250

Posts: 10
I found an air leak somewhere with the Starting Fluid test on the carb boots. I'll take carbs off again and do a more thorough check for air leaks and grab a good battery from my roommate's bike.

If battery is bad, any recommendations on new one?
Haynix is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 8th, 2018, 10:56 AM   #13
gantt
ninjette.org sage
 
gantt's Avatar
 
Name: michael
Location: Central Georgia
Join Date: May 2013

Motorcycle(s): 2019 Ninja 400, Sold 2012 Ninja 650, Sold 2009 Ninja 250r, Sold 2007 DRZ400s

Posts: 628
i just use lead acid battery's try and check prices, some times you can find a battery store that sells them for less than parts store, bike dealer, and Walmart
gantt is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 8th, 2018, 11:29 AM   #14
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
I found some on Amazon for $17.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 10th, 2018, 09:15 AM   #15
Haynix
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Adam
Location: Durham, NC
Join Date: Jul 2018

Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250

Posts: 10
Smile Fixed (I think)

TL;DR - I think its fixed now but some minor symptoms remain. Sprained my ankle so I will be out for a couple weeks. Any reason not to buy a Li-Ion battery?


I think it's fixed. disassembled the rear fender almost completely so I had space to work. Cleaned and reseated all the carb connecting surfaces. The throttle-to-cable connector and throttle cable end had become bent somehow, that may have had something to do with it. Got it bent back in shape and set the idle thumbscrew in a good place.

Its running great now with the airbox disconnected though the right exhaust pipe still smokes alittle bit.

Right when I called it fixed a ****ing bat swooped at me and I lost my balance and sprained my ankle. So I can't work on it or ride it for a couple weeks

Not sure if the airbox is causing a problem. If it is i'll probably get some K&N pod filters and new jets.

Got a battery tender jr. on the way to try to save battery. If not, is there any reason NOT to buy one of the newer tech batteries like li-ion? (besides $)

Thanks for all your help guys, I appreciate it.
Haynix is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 23rd, 2018, 07:48 AM   #16
Haynix
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Adam
Location: Durham, NC
Join Date: Jul 2018

Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250

Posts: 10
Probably a voltage issue

TL;DR - I think the problem is electrical.

I had another incident yesterday. Was low-ish on gas and carb started overflowing about 10 minutes into ride. One of the floats was probably stuck. Stopped and filled up on gas, whacked the carb with a BFH and fixed that issue.

From all the cranking/starting while trying to fix that, I had drained the battery. Battery died. Got my mobile jumpstarter kit and jump started it. It ran on 1 cylinder again at first but severity lessened over time. I could only get it to idle with Enrichment on, at about 2500 rpm. LOTS of smoke coming from right exhaust. Got the bike home. Hooked up the battery tender to the bike and drove car into work. about 7 hours later i came home from work, battery was fully charged, went for a test ride and it was perfectly fine. Hooked battery tender back up over night, rode into work today and it was perfectly fine.

SO... it seems like an electrical/voltage/battery problem.

Battery, Stator, Regulator/Rectifier, Alternator, Coils. Which of these is likely the culprit?

I already got a new Regulator on the way because they're cheap.

I want to add a voltmeter display to the bike, any recommendations?
Haynix is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 23rd, 2018, 08:41 AM   #17
greg737
-
 
Name: -
Location: -
Join Date: May 2009

Motorcycle(s): -

Posts: A lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haynix View Post
SO... it seems like an electrical/voltage/battery problem.

Battery, Stator, Regulator/Rectifier, Alternator, Coils. Which of these is likely the culprit?

I already got a new Regulator on the way because they're cheap.

I want to add a voltmeter display to the bike, any recommendations?
The Datel company offers so many styles of voltmeter you'll probably find something that you like: http://www.datelmeters.com/

I went with a simple red colored display and mounted it into the left side of the fairing. I did this mod all the way back in 2008 just after purchased the bike, it's been good.



(the 3 position switch on the fairing is for heated grips, nothing related to the voltmeter, just sayin' for clarity)
greg737 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 23rd, 2018, 12:32 PM   #18
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haynix View Post
Battery, Stator, Regulator/Rectifier, Alternator, Coils. Which of these is likely the culprit?
Any one of them can be culprit and there's a test for each one to determine if it's good or bad. Or you can just replace them all. And it may very well turn out that they were ALL good and you've got problem with wiring or connector in between. Could also be ignition-switch or ignition computer as well.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 30th, 2018, 01:44 PM   #19
Haynix
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Adam
Location: Durham, NC
Join Date: Jul 2018

Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250

Posts: 10
Fixed.

Seems like the battery was the culprit. I kept the battery topped off at all times with a trickle charger and didn't have any more problems. Replaced the battery and still haven't had any problems.

Also the idle mixture screws were too lean, assuming from the K&N filter. I have them around 3 1/4 or 3 1/2 turns now and it runs much better.

Thinking about getting K&N pod filters and new jets, just to do it. Any recommendations on Jets? If not, no big deal, I'll figure it. I know not to get a DynoJet kit, and the Factory Pro kits are $90. Would rather not spend that for a couple morsels of brass lol. Probably gonna go with one of the 2 below kits. Thoughts?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/88-07-Kawas...0/292574983610

https://www.ebay.com/itm/08-12-KAWAS...5/292596981175


Thanks for your help all
Haynix is offline   Reply With Quote


Old April 17th, 2019, 12:41 PM   #20
Haynix
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Adam
Location: Durham, NC
Join Date: Jul 2018

Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250

Posts: 10
Update

6 month update

Bike has been running great since new battery and a "stage 2" jet kit with 110's and 40's. Was definitely running lean with the stock jets and K&N filter. All good!
Haynix is offline   Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old April 17th, 2019, 01:53 PM   #21
CaliGrrl
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
CaliGrrl's Avatar
 
Name: Kerry
Location: Ventura, CA
Join Date: Jan 2016

Motorcycle(s): Ninja650

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Apr '18, Apr '17, Apr '16
Excellent!
CaliGrrl is offline   Reply With Quote


Old April 17th, 2019, 09:42 PM   #22
Tooch
ninjette.org member
 
Tooch's Avatar
 
Name: Anthony
Location: Pittsburgh
Join Date: Mar 2019

Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250, 2015 zx10r, 2010 Ducati 848

Posts: 75
I have pod filters and a stage 2 Dynojet kit on my wife's bike. I had a racing idle issue as well and it ended up being a mis-routed vacuum line for the carbs. I'm glad your sorted, though! In both automotive and motorcycle, a known good battery is step 1 of your diagnostics. Electronics can be crazy.
Tooch is offline   Reply With Quote


Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[motorcycle.com] - Ask MO Anything: How Do I Know Which Cylinder Isn’t Firing? Ninjette Newsbot Motorcycling News 0 January 2nd, 2017 12:40 PM
One cylinder not firing acook3323 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 11 November 6th, 2016 06:11 PM
Cylinder 2 Misfiring / Not firing / Unpredictable juliusmichaelhonrada 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 41 July 23rd, 2016 05:42 AM
'10 Ninja 250 Not Firing on One Cylinder... fallerd 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 9 October 22nd, 2014 09:51 PM
HELP 03 ex250 left cylinder not firing MistahT 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 19 October 22nd, 2013 06:20 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Motorcycle Safety Foundation

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:59 PM.


Website uptime monitoring Host-tracker.com
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Except where otherwise noted, all site contents are © Copyright 2022 ninjette.org, All rights reserved.