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Old October 2nd, 2012, 10:04 PM   #41
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Dang...
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Old October 2nd, 2012, 10:11 PM   #42
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Dang...
Baby I know what you want

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Old October 3rd, 2012, 06:32 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Reddoak View Post
Exhaust noise: Get a nice slip on, they have a nice popping idle and an aggressive tone that is considerably different from any I4. Like a Harley on 'roids. That said... still sounds like an industrial machine. Welcome to twins!

Twitchy throttle: Yup. A Power Commander and a good map went a long way towards improving the throttle response and feel. However, the 650s really engine brake hard, and aggressive downshifting will easily unsettle the rear of the bike. Even chopping the throttle at higher RPMs can be a bit harsh. Use the clutch accordingly.

Haha. Something about the "industrial machine" comparison made me lol.
I'm thinking about moving up to a 650R when I'm ready too, and that exhaust note (from what I've heard on youtube) kinda bothers me. But I'll deal.

As for the engine braking...Were there any plans to introduce a slipper clutch to the new 650s, like they have in the 250R?
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Old October 4th, 2012, 08:38 AM   #44
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Quick follow up

Regarding the throttle response between the 650 and the 1000...how would you describe the difference? Which one is more twitchy? Quicker off the line? Is the response different in thew RPM range?
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Old October 4th, 2012, 09:19 AM   #45
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The 650 is kinda twitchy but IMO its not an issue unless you're in the twisties
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Old October 4th, 2012, 09:50 AM   #46
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whoa..

You pay 445/year?? I'm 36 and only pay 280/year without a msf course and being a noob..
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Old October 4th, 2012, 01:48 PM   #47
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You pay 445/year?? I'm 36 and only pay 280/year without a msf course and being a noob..
You realize insurance rates can be dependent on more factors than age, right? They often have a lot to do with where you're insured. For example, in Central Florida, a densely populated area with a 12 month riding season, I would pay more than if I lived in Cheyenne, WY. This is why comparing insurance to anyone other than someone living near you is mostly useless.
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Old October 4th, 2012, 02:03 PM   #48
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Exactly

Yeah....insurance is high in hillborough county...most accidents in the state per capita. Tampa sux for any kind of insurance.....storms, hurricanes, floods, plus all the crappy drivers.

Im mainly trying to figure out if the Ninja 1000 is too much motorcycle/power....or if its smoother on throttle than the Ninja 650. I love the styling of the 650...looks bad ass. But I also like big bikes. I weigh 220, Im 5'7" (stocky build with a beer gut), I want a bike that can, but also be smooth.
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Old October 4th, 2012, 02:51 PM   #49
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From my experience the 650 on the street was fine. The advantages the 1000 has for street riding are smoother throttle control with less engine braking, low rpms with smooth power (1.2k+ rpms), a more adjustable stock suspension, and less vibrations at certain rpms.

Smoother Throttle Control

While the 1000 does have smoother control this is not a make it or break it factor for street riding. The places where I feel that this does give the 1000 a superior edge is in the twisties and in parking lots. You'll be doing a lot of friction zone accelerating and clutched rolling in parking lots whereas with the 1000 you won't have to quite as much

Low RPMs w/ Smooth Power

You can accelerate from extremely low rpms without lugging the engine on the 1000. 4th Gear @ 20mph = no problem. I think just the nature of a twin causes it to lug that low, with the 650 you'll want to be 2.5k+ Another thing about this though is that its much easier to upshift and downshift on the 650. It is crazy how hard it is to smoothly upshift on the 1000. I generally just do it clutchless since the engine revs up and down so quickly the amount of time it takes to squeeze the clutch causes the engine speed to drop below the wheel speed. The 650 wasn't nearly as hard. Oh and down shifting, man you need the smallest of small blips on the 1000, I over rev it 90% of the time. The nice thing though, is that you rarely need to down shift unless coming to a stop.

The 1000 also has a slipper clutch so if you really botch a shift it will help you out.

Stock Suspension + Vibration

The 650 I believe only has a rear preload while the 1000 also has a preload on the forks as well too also. It makes it easier to get the suspension tuned to your liking from stock. The nature of an liter i4 causes it to have lower revs and less vibration. The 650 feels about the same as the 250 in the vibration department, except when you redline it. Damn, if you ever have a problem getting your girl off just throw her on the back seat of the 650 and go ride at redline for 30 seconds.

Power

Irrelevant, both have too much.

Cool Things

The 1000 has a lever adjustable windshield (650s is adjustable with an allen head wrench and 10 minutes of your time)
The 650 has a MPG indicator (if you pay attention to it, you will net higher mileage)

Summary

I'd say, aside from the greater skill required for shifting, the 1000 is an all around better bike than the 650. The question is, for the way you want to ride, are those extra perks worth: the 4-5k more for the bike, the lower MPGs, increased maintance cost, increased insurance cost, and poor color scheme choice? For me, (aside from that last part ) the answer is an easy yes.
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Old October 4th, 2012, 05:49 PM   #50
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Ahhh.... I didn't realize you lived in the land of the red tide smell and where drunken pirate lawyers run throught the streets looking for booze during Gasparilla. haha.
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Old October 4th, 2012, 06:23 PM   #51
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Yeah....insurance is high in hillborough county...most accidents in the state per capita. Tampa sux for any kind of insurance.....storms, hurricanes, floods, plus all the crappy drivers.

Im mainly trying to figure out if the Ninja 1000 is too much motorcycle/power....or if its smoother on throttle than the Ninja 650. I love the styling of the 650...looks bad ass. But I also like big bikes. I weigh 220, Im 5'7" (stocky build with a beer gut), I want a bike that can, but also be smooth.
Come to Orlando, I'll let you test ride an ER-6N (a naked 650r, if you will.) You're on your own for the Ninja 1000 ride. If you buy a 1000, I would expect a test ride in return... I'm the same height, probably the same build, and a little heavier.

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Ahhh.... I didn't realize you lived in the land of the red tide smell and where drunken pirate lawyers run throught the streets looking for booze during Gasparilla. haha.
That's tourist driven nonsense. They run through the streets year round out there, not just during Gasparilla...
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Old October 4th, 2012, 07:33 PM   #52
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You guys have been great. don't get me wrong...I love everything about my 250r....including the flickability....hearing whats been said....it makes more sense to get a 650 vs. a 1000. I recognize the danger of jumping on a liter bike...hence why Im doing my research....but truth be told....one of the reasons I don't do a lot of freeway riding is because I feel so exposed on the 250R on the freeway. Just so buzzy, I get blown around so easy, and have minimal passing power....as in I have to plan everything strategically vs when Im in the city...I have a lot of fun.

I did sit on both 650 & 1000 at the stealership. I love them both....I like the "heavy duty" feeling of the 1000....seems like a "boss" bike that I can cruise on the blvd in style on....but if its that heavy....and dangerous for newbs....well...I have no pride in learning. I see lots of youngsters on gixxers ALL the time....hence why I hate gixxers. Guess I don't want to be a racer wannabe.....aka Im 36, married (happily) and like only occasionally pissing of cagers....anyone on 2 wheels should be friends.

Side note....I always wanted a Ninja 500.....my favorite old school bike....but when I say the Ninja 650, I decided to start on a 250R to learn the ropes so i wouldn't end up 6ft under.

Thanks again.
The 650 will DEFINITELY accomplish all your goals and is great on the highway.

Even though the Ninja 1000 is over 1000ccs I would never call it a literbike bc it has nowhere near the power of a supersport 1000. If the money makes absolutely no difference you will probably be happier with the 1000. The engine is more refined and the bike is more solid.
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Old October 4th, 2012, 07:54 PM   #53
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Even though the Ninja 1000 is over 1000ccs I would never call it a literbike bc it has nowhere near the power of a supersport 1000. If the money makes absolutely no difference you will probably be happier with the 1000. The engine is more refined and the bike is more solid.
That's not true. The zx10r and ninja 1000 have a similar amount of power, the zx10r simply revs higher to gain those massive hp numbers. If you are riding a literbike on the street though I doubt you will be taking advantage of those extra revs considering that they put you over 100mph

In similar gears on the street, if you got WOT on both bikes (and try not to wheelie) you will find that they have similar acceleration, the zx10r will have slightly more but its hardly enough reason to say "I don't consider the ninja 1000 a literbike"
zx10r


ninja 1000
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Old October 4th, 2012, 08:28 PM   #54
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Come to Orlando, I'll let you test ride an ER-6N (a naked 650r, if you will.) You're on your own for the Ninja 1000 ride. If you buy a 1000, I would expect a test ride in return... I'm the same height, probably the same build, and a little heavier.


That's tourist driven nonsense. They run through the streets year round out there, not just during Gasparilla...
Hahaha true. I haven't been there since we moved in 92. How do you keep your gear from crusting over in salt? It's not as hot here and I hate driving in the deep summer.
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Old October 5th, 2012, 07:34 AM   #55
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That's not true. The zx10r and ninja 1000 have a similar amount of power, the zx10r simply revs higher to gain those massive hp numbers. If you are riding a literbike on the street though I doubt you will be taking advantage of those extra revs considering that they put you over 100mph

In similar gears on the street, if you got WOT on both bikes (and try not to wheelie) you will find that they have similar acceleration, the zx10r will have slightly more but its hardly enough reason to say "I don't consider the ninja 1000 a literbike"
Have you ridden both of these bikes much? Sure if you're in 6th gear going 40mph and open the throttle they will have "similar" pull. If you ride normally and take off from a start then open the throttle until you hit redline there is no comparison. The 1000 feels fast, the ZX10 feels deadly.

Ninja 1000
509lbs
136H
3.74lbs/hp

ZX10
437lbs
194hp
2.25lbs/hp

600RR
410lbs
120hp
3.42lbs/hp

My 08 600RR pulls harder overall than the Ninja 1000 and the above are curb weights and crank HP numbers to show why. The Ninja 1000 is more on par with a 600 and I can tell you from riding with a guy on a Z1000 my 600RR is faster. When I take off he simply can't catch up. Maybe it would change over 100mph but we have never tried. The big difference is the torque, which makes the 1000 great on the street, but when you wind them up the 1000 will be even or behind a 600 with an experienced rider.

Not from looking at numbers or graphs, but from rising these two bikes I do not consider the Ninja 1000 a literbike. It cannot keep up with them but it wasn't meant to. It has a much more useful powerband. I was intimidated by the displacement when I rode it at first, treating it like a literbike, but quickly realize how much more tame it was and started hammering the throttle and taking it through its paces. Great bike and it is on my radar for a comfortable medium distance highway bike, but it is no literbike.
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Old October 5th, 2012, 07:48 AM   #56
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Ahhh.... I didn't realize you lived in the land of the red tide smell and where drunken pirate lawyers run throught the streets looking for booze during Gasparilla. haha.
Ybor gets nuts! Just an excuse for us all to go nuts, get really drunk, and throw beads
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Old October 5th, 2012, 10:08 AM   #57
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Maybe you missed the part about street riding? The zx10 redlined in the triple digits, you're never going to hit that so its peak hp is irrelevant. The n1k and zx10 will feel very similar on the street
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Old October 5th, 2012, 10:51 AM   #58
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Maybe you missed the part about street riding? The zx10 redlined in the triple digits, you're never going to hit that so its peak hp is irrelevant. The n1k and zx10 will feel very similar on the street
Have you spent much time on them? They don't feel similar a literbike feels much faster even if you aren't redlining it all the time it is a completely different class of motorcycle. The 1000 is much heavier.
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Old October 5th, 2012, 10:58 AM   #59
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Right tell me more about how a bike that will power wheelie at any legal speed is going to feel significantly slower on the street. I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for this one.
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Old October 5th, 2012, 12:49 PM   #60
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Hahaha true. I haven't been there since we moved in 92. How do you keep your gear from crusting over in salt? It's not as hot here and I hate driving in the deep summer.

Easy, no gear.

Just kidding, phase change cooling vest. I stay cool in summer... Not as good as a cool day, but at least it makes it tolerable in a jacket in summertime.

http://www.coolvest.com/ They're in West Melbourne.

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Maybe you missed the part about stre... blah blah
Quote:
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Have you spent much time... blah blah
Jesus, some people will argue about anything. Yes, the Ninja 1000 has a 1 liter engine, and it's a bike. So it's a literbike, it's just a term. Yes, the ZX-10R is faster, so what?

This is like the retards that argue over whether a Ninjette is a sport bike. The answer is moot.
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Old October 5th, 2012, 12:51 PM   #61
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The answer is moot.
So's your face!
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Old October 5th, 2012, 12:55 PM   #62
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So's your face!


This word moot....


LOL...
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Old October 5th, 2012, 12:58 PM   #63
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Right tell me more about how a bike that will power wheelie at any legal speed is going to feel significantly slower on the street. I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for this one.
I didn't say the bike is slow. I am saying it doesn't feel as fast as a supersport. When I looked at the power and weight figures for both, my feeling was even more justified.

The Ninja 1000 is a great bike but it doesn't feel as fast as a literbike.

Have you ever even ridden both of these bikes? I thought the same things you do...then I rode it. The Ninja 1000 doesn't power wheelie that easily. Again, I was surprised at how TAME it was. This is not a bad thing, it makes it a GREAT bike for the street- much better than a supersport. Instead of arguing why don't you put an hour in the saddle of each riding like a real person (not short shifting every gear to stay away from the powerband) and tell me that it feels as fast as a ZX10.
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Old October 5th, 2012, 01:00 PM   #64
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Easy, no gear.

Just kidding, phase change cooling vest. I stay cool in summer... Not as good as a cool day, but at least it makes it tolerable in a jacket in summertime.

http://www.coolvest.com/ They're in West Melbourne.

Jesus, some people will argue about anything. Yes, the Ninja 1000 has a 1 liter engine, and it's a bike. So it's a literbike, it's just a term. Yes, the ZX-10R is faster, so what?

This is like the retards that argue over whether a Ninjette is a sport bike. The answer is moot.
I am looking into this now! Do you really cram that huge thing in your freezer though?
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Old October 5th, 2012, 01:05 PM   #65
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This word moot....


LOL...
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Old October 5th, 2012, 01:12 PM   #66
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I am looking into this now! Do you really cram that huge thing in your freezer though?
Huge thing? No, the packs slide right out of the vest. They don't even need to go in a freezer, they "freeze" solid in the fridge, given a few hours. I've even stuck them in a shopping cart with a 5lb bag of ice on one occasion...

Here's the 4 packs that come in the vest:


I have chucked the whole vest and all in my fridge at work, but don't like to do so, I don't want it to get cold and damp.
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Old October 5th, 2012, 01:19 PM   #67
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Quote:
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I didn't say the bike is slow. I am saying it doesn't feel as fast as a supersport. When I looked at the power and weight figures for both, my feeling was even more justified.

The Ninja 1000 is a great bike but it doesn't feel as fast as a literbike.

Have you ever even ridden both of these bikes? I thought the same things you do...then I rode it. The Ninja 1000 doesn't power wheelie that easily. Again, I was surprised at how TAME it was. This is not a bad thing, it makes it a GREAT bike for the street- much better than a supersport. Instead of arguing why don't you put an hour in the saddle of each riding like a real person (not short shifting every gear to stay away from the powerband) and tell me that it feels as fast as a ZX10.
Of course its not as fast as a supersport, no one is arguing that. What I am saying and you are failing to realize is that these bikes have so much power and capability that simply being on the street limits them into a similar power class

And it wheelies quite easily
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Old October 5th, 2012, 01:45 PM   #68
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simply being on the street limits them into a similar power class
Depends on the street.

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Old October 5th, 2012, 01:52 PM   #69
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Depends on the street.

That's a good point but, I think the limiting factor for speed in that situation would be the balls on the rider and not the bike. For example, I've gone 127mph on my 650 but I don't think I'll ever go 155mph on the 1000.

That would just be stupid
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Old October 24th, 2012, 07:27 AM   #70
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Thinking of @005 ZZR600 instead?

I saw an 05 ZZR600 going for $3499 today. I was wondering if any of you have ridden this bike? Looks like its in good shape, only 5700 miles.

I sat on the 650 and the 1000....ergos seem a bit more upright than the 250....but the ZZR seems about right.


How would you compare the ZZR to the 250? Power delivery and comfort just as smooth? Worth the jump?
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Old October 24th, 2012, 07:31 AM   #71
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That's a good point but, I think the limiting factor for speed in that situation would be the balls on the rider and not the bike. For example, I've gone 127mph on my 650 but I don't think I'll ever go 155mph on the 1000.

That would just be stupid
People do stupid things everyday. Sometimes just for the fun of it.
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Old October 24th, 2012, 07:33 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by eversic View Post
I saw an 05 ZZR600 going for $3499 today. I was wondering if any of you have ridden this bike? Looks like its in good shape, only 5700 miles.

I sat on the 650 and the 1000....ergos seem a bit more upright than the 250....but the ZZR seems about right.


How would you compare the ZZR to the 250? Power delivery and comfort just as smooth? Worth the jump?
You'd have to tell me the owner and where it is for me to tell you if I ever rode that bike.
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Old October 24th, 2012, 10:29 AM   #73
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Didn't even look where he is from, you poor soul, why even get a bike if you can't ride on twisties?

And yea engine braking, brakes harder than my 1k does, that **** is bananas
he needs a KLR 650....
So you can hit every dirt path in between. Can't ride twisties? **** it, ride offroad!!
It also uses some of the same parts as the 250...



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Old October 24th, 2012, 10:30 AM   #74
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^ good point
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Old October 26th, 2012, 07:35 AM   #75
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he needs a KLR 650....
So you can hit every dirt path in between. Can't ride twisties? **** it, ride offroad!!
It also uses some of the same parts as the 250...



Only if I was a redneck with no life.

Im looking at other bikes as well, VFR800, GSX650F. Only I'd have ot switch out the handlebars.

Anyone else notice that the Ninja 650 handlebars seem more upright than the 250r?
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Old October 26th, 2012, 07:41 AM   #76
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Anyone else notice that the Ninja 650 handlebars seem more upright than the 250r?
How could one fail to notice that? To me, they're really awkward.

I rode the new 650 at a Kawi Demo Day this year. It was almost scooter-like it was so upright.

Of course, I'm biased... I've got clip-ons and rearsets. I greatly prefer the sport-bike riding position.
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Old October 26th, 2012, 07:44 AM   #77
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Only if I was a redneck with no life.

Im looking at other bikes as well, VFR800, GSX650F. Only I'd have ot switch out the handlebars.

Anyone else notice that the Ninja 650 handlebars seem more upright than the 250r?
They are, slightly! But if you're concerned about that, you can always swap out the stock handlebars for the aftermarket clip-on "Sport Bars" that give it a more aggressive riding position.

Not sure if this has been posted already, but this website is awesome for comparing the rider positions on various bikes to each other, like the 250 and the 650.

http://cycle-ergo.com/
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Old October 26th, 2012, 08:03 AM   #78
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I saw an 05 ZZR600 going for $3499 today. I was wondering if any of you have ridden this bike? Looks like its in good shape, only 5700 miles.

I sat on the 650 and the 1000....ergos seem a bit more upright than the 250....but the ZZR seems about right.


How would you compare the ZZR to the 250? Power delivery and comfort just as smooth? Worth the jump?
I actually haven't ridden this bike, but I used to ride with a guy who has one. Great middleweight. Comfortable, plenty fast, and almost lightweight sport-tourer in its feeling. If it's in good shape and the history seems legit, I would be very tempted by this if that's what you're in the market for.
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Old October 26th, 2012, 08:21 AM   #79
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the ZZR is essentially a pre 2003 ZX6. Its a SS but not necessarily considered one. Either way it will slap the **** out of the 250...
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Old October 26th, 2012, 08:24 AM   #80
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Get the 1000 I went from a 250 to 750 and my 750 is actually faster then the ninja 1000 and I'm completely fine. I rode the 650 and while it's a cool bike, I just don't like it at all compared to the ninja 1000. As long as you're mature you can handle the 1000.
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