Ninja 650 vs 1000

[thisisbenji]

Okay so I'm thinking about getting a different bike in 2013. What I really want to find is something with about the same power as a ZX-6R but the upright riding position of our little 250s. Anyways I'm not really asking for advice or anything. I'll make up my mind on something regardless of what anyone on a online forum says. But what do you guys think about the Ninja 1000? That thing looks sick. Does anyone think it'd be dangerous to step up from a 250 to a 1000? What I really want is something with a good windscreen that can also cruise at relatively low RPMs while on the highway doing about 80. At the same time I want to be able to keep up with at least 600cc SS bikes.

[Reswob]

Well the Ninja 650R is a 650cc parallel twin, which is extremely anemic compared to a 600 I-4 in a supersport. The Ninja 1000 is a slightly larger than 1L I-4, but according to wiki, only makes about 140hp, which is higher than a typical 600 but lower than a 1000.

[thisisbenji]

Yup, I saw that. I really want the 650, but I don't want to have less power than a 600cc SS. It's annoying ringing out my bike trying to keep up with friends on SS bikes who aren't even trying.

Are there any other options for a full fairing sport bike with about the same power as a 600cc SS?

[Jiggles]

I was torn between these 2 bikes as well. I ended up going for the 650 once I saw how it had been redesigned. They both have adjustable windshields (I currently have mine on the highest setting) and they are both super comfy. The deciding factor for me was insurance. The 650 was about 1/4 the cost yearly as the 1000. Also mileage will be similar to your 250 with the 650. If you go with the 1000, expect a major cut. The 1000 has a mode selector, honestly I thought I would be able to handle it even coming from a 250, but every dealer I talked to told me to get the 650 or fz6r because the power would be too much. For people to tell you that when they can make more money off of the other option is a little eye opening. Nonetheless, I've never felt underpowered on the 650 at all. In fact, it has more power than I will probably ever end up using on the street. You will have no problem keeping up with 600s if you are on the streets or the twisties. If however you are racing, you will definitely fall short.

Also, the new 650s come with some absolutely amazing tires.

The only thing I don't like about the Ninja 1000 is the exhaust, it looks stupid. The 650, I'm not such a fan of the handlebar, but it is growing on me.

[Reswob]

Originally Posted by thisisbenji

Yup, I saw that. I really want the 650, but I don't want to have less power than a 600cc SS. It's annoying ringing out my bike trying to keep up with friends on SS bikes who aren't even trying.

Are there any other options for a full fairing sport bike with about the same power as a 600cc SS?

I think the Yamaha FZ6R uses a detuned R6 engine. Should be closer to a 600ss than the 650's twin

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/pr...9/0/specs.aspx

[headshrink]

I know you weren't asking for advice, but you sort of where, so this is my two cents:

I agree that the 650 will give you almost everything you are looking for, at a MUCH, MUCH lower overall cost (OTD, insurance, fuel, maintenance, tickets, medical, etc.). You may not be able to keep up with your friends on the track, but on the street.... I would be surprised, since they can't really use all their power on the road.

[Joule]

I had a 180 cc bike for 5 years before i got my ninja this year.
Now, i feel 250r is a great bike BUT ~ it's just not enough to please me AT ALL
I love to accelerate and i am actually crazy to hear that 4 cylinder's idle sound. yeah i can just keep bike idle for hours without getting bored. thats what i do ~ listen to it on youtube LOL

Now the issue is that in india, taxes kill the imports. ninja zx14r which is 15 k dollars ( 7.5 lac in indian currency ) will cost around.. 30 k dollars ( 15 lacs + )
ninja 250 r was the only bike available without burning a huge hole. even 3 lac ( 6 k dollars ) are a lot in india.
i am actually crazy about bikes and i don't even drive cars when we have two of them at home. i just don't like cars at all. bikes? i can ride them no matter how uncomfortable i feel. i don't care for 50 C temperature that gets enhanced by heated roads. i don't need the comforts of the car. i am very adaptable.

it's been only 2 and a half months and i feel i need more power. I think i want to buy ZX 14r in coming 3 to 4 years. But it's gonna cost a lot due to taxes and if imported directly.
Ninja 250r was under reach because it was introduced in a complete knockdown kit. thus, cutting the taxes.
god help me. these import taxes are ruining everything for me ;(

but since yesterday, i feel i should just wait for market to open up and maybe one of these companies will launch 600 SS models in CKD like ninja was introduced?
ninja 650R costs 4.8 lac ( 9.5 k dollars ) which my parents refused to get for me as for now :P they say i need to age a bit. they will help me buy the bike but after time passes.

If 600 SS model gets launched for 12k dollars or under, should i go for it?
but i fear i won't stop until i get the biggest and meanest bike ninja zx14r.

why the heck am i so crazy about bikes.. FFFFFFUUUU !!! i even dream about bikes.

[Joule]

guess what was the insurance cost for my ninja 250r? ROFL

only 4.6 k indian rupee thats 90 dollars roughly. LAWL

u guys are crying for insurance. hahahaha
but overall bikes are expensive here because of import duties. Just hope they get a manufacturing plant working in india. india is an emerging market.

in my city, people are rich, but all own expensive cars. only 4 to 5 guys here have those litre bikes. FFFFUUUU import taxes O_O

[Boom King]

Originally Posted by Reswob

I think the Yamaha FZ6R uses a detuned R6 engine. Should be closer to a 600ss than the 650's twin

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/pr...9/0/specs.aspx

Something else to perhaps consider is the Yamaha FZ6. It has an even more powerful engine based off the 2003 R6 engine. In North America, we get the engine that produces 98 hp while I believe the FZ6R engine gets detuned down to 66 hp. You can find some used ones with fairing kits once in a while.



Here's an FZ1 with a fairing kit...

[thisisbenji]

The FZ6 and 1 are interesting.

For those of you with 650s, say I was at a red light next to a 600cc SS bike and we took off. By how much would I get left behind? Up to about 100.

I really want to get something that I can keep for a long time and not get bored of, also something new. Maybe I'll just try to pick up a used 650 first and see how I like it.

[r311music]

What about the FZ8? I'll second the Ninja 650 if you are stuck on Kawi's. I loved mine, however I really wanted a SS, and well, the 650 is simply not one. However it does have a ton of useful power on the streets, and the new redesign looks pretty awesome. If you don't care for the handle bars you can easily swap them out. Some riders go for risers to make it even more upright, others go for sport bars that lower it slightly.

[EsrTek]

Any of those choices I think you will still have the same problems keeping up w SS 600's.

[Boom King]

Originally Posted by thisisbenji

For those of you with 650s, say I was at a red light next to a 600cc SS bike and we took off. By how much would I get left behind? Up to about 100.

Whoa, where is this street that has a 100 mph limit? If you want to start drag racing other 600 supersports, you really need to be on your own 600 supersport . But to answer your question seriously, I think you might get a bit of a jump off the line with the 650R due to more torque in the lower and mid RPM range. Even as you start to near 60 mph though, any modern engine 600 supersport is already starting to pull away as it reaches its high RPM power range.

[Liist]

I was actually looking at the FZ8, FZ6, and some 650 bikes but came to the conclusion that my next bike will probably be a 600 SS.

The reason being that Florida has way too many 600s on the used market and we don't have to get insurance if we don't want to.

Not to mention I don't see a single FZ8 or low mileage FZ6 in local listings, but plenty of CBRs, R6s, ZX6Rs, and GSXRs.

[warlord]

I love the Ninja 1000, it's a great all around bike. It's exactly what I'm planning to get instead of a 600 supersport... not because it's quicker than a zx6r but because it can be an "everything" bike.

The only issue is that it's tough to get a good priced insurance quote so you really have to shop around.

If you google you can get a rough idea of performance of the bikes (which vary depending on the source)

Ninja 650= 3.8-4.0 sec; high 12s or low 13s quarter mile
ZX6R= 3.2-3.5 sec; high 10s quarter mile
Ninja 1000= 2.8-2.9 sec; mid-high 10's quarter mile

[thisisbenji]

Originally Posted by Boom King

Whoa, where is this street that has a 100 mph limit?

No where, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen on accident occasionally. There's never any cops out here, and the roads are really good, they just put up windmills and had to put in new roads for the trucks.

I'm really liking the 1000. Insurance is a little bit crazy on it though.

Originally Posted by warlord

I love the Ninja 1000, it's a great all around bike. It's exactly what I'm planning to get instead of a 600 supersport... not because it's quicker than a zx6r but because it can be an "everything" bike.

That's kind of what I like about it, it's powerful and sporty looking. But I think it would also work out good for commuting to work.


I really want to buy my next bike new, and have it be something that I keep for a long time as a do it all type of ride. That's why I'm starting to consider my options so early.

[choneofakind]

it's not up to the bike to "keep up" with larger bikes. It's up to the rider.

Unless you're just looking at "keeping up" as a top speed number comparison, in which case, you need to find some curvier roads or a track or something.

[Xoulrath]

A Ninja 650 will keep up fine with a 600 on the streets. Sure, if you're drag racing, then the 600 will take off on you after 60 or so, but for even hard riding on the street, the rider will make the difference.

[bluesinorbit]

Get a Hayabusa or new riding buddies.

[headshrink]

Other than some differences in cosmetics, what is the difference between the Ninja 1000 and the Z1000? Are they really geared toward different market segments?

[etiainen]

I've ridden both.

It is HARD to keep even close to the speed limit on the Ninja 1000.

Still seems pretty unpractical for everyday stuff, too much power for me. I will stick with slower bikes

The new 650 seems like a much better idea.

Unless you are riding in illegal territory, the 650 is probably more than enough.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by headshrink

Other than some differences in cosmetics, what is the difference between the Ninja 1000 and the Z1000? Are they really geared toward different market segments?

Same basic bike. Some people like faired bikes, others like naked bikes. There are some minor tweaks (gearing, fuel tank shape/size, and a few other bits). I really like the Ninja 1000 myself; I'm not enamored by fast naked bikes, knowing they get tiring after 2 or 3 hours at speed.

[kabuki85]

Originally Posted by bluesinorbit

Get a Hayabusa or new riding buddies.

[thisisbenji]

Originally Posted by bluesinorbit

Get a Hayabusa or new riding buddies.

I was thinking a turbo busa actually.

So it's seeming to me that the general idea is that the 650 will keep up with 600s unless we are drag racing?

[dubojr1]

All great information guys! I also have my eyes on the new 650. I got Vince (@want1sobad) working on some Photoshop's for me. Here's the first of the 3 colors.

BTW... @Jiggles Can you tell us what kind of fuel economy your getting. Anywhere near the estimated 50mpg?

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by thisisbenji

So it's seeming to me that the general idea is that the 650 will keep up with 600s unless we are drag racing?

How about you go test ride every bike that you're asking about, and see which ones feel sub-par and which ones you like, and buy the one you like, rather than freaking out about which bike will keep up with what? Again, unless you're talking about riding in a straight line, it's not the bike, it's the rider.

Besides, if you and your buddies are flying down the freeway or back roads at more than 100 anyways, maybe you need to be re-considering your life plans and write a Will and Testament. Which bike that can "keep up with a 600" is going to be the least of your concerns.

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

How about you go test ride every bike that you're asking about, and see which ones feel sub-par and which ones you like, and buy the one you like, rather than freaking out about which bike will keep up with what? Again, unless you're talking about riding in a straight line, it's not the bike, it's the rider.

Besides, if you and your buddies are flying down the freeway or back roads at more than 100 anyways, maybe you need to be re-considering your life plans and write a Will and Testament. Which bike that can "keep up with a 600" is going to be the least of your concerns.

A little harsh... IMO

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by dubojr1

A little harsh... IMO

Maybe. But at some point, it gets annoying when people are sure they are bored with their bike because they "can't keep up".

If he wants to see which bike is best for his riding style, he needs to go test ride bikes. All the major manufacturers host demo days every year, dealerships allow test rides, and friends are almost always willing to swap rides for a half hour or so, and those are always great ways to see which bikes you like.

I keep my speeds in check. I honestly don't know how fast my bike will go. I've been up to 90, but only a few times, for very short spans of time. I can still "keep up" with whoever I ride with, but maybe that's because my riding buddies and I are pseudo-safe when we ride, and keep it below 100 mph. So hard.

Pardon my annoyance. I didn't mean it as a personal attack. Just consider it as an opinion, like everyone else is giving.

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Maybe. But at some point, it gets annoying when people are sure they are bored with their bike because they "can't keep up".

If he wants to see which bike is best for his riding style, he needs to go test ride bikes. All the major manufacturers host demo days every year, dealerships allow test rides, and friends are almost always willing to swap rides for a half hour or so, and those are always great ways to see which bikes you like.

I keep my speeds in check. I honestly don't know how fast my bike will go. I've been up to 90, but only a few times, for very short spans of time. I can still "keep up" with whoever I ride with, but maybe that's because my riding buddies and I are pseudo-safe when we ride, and keep it below 100 mph. So hard.



Pardon my annoyance. I didn't mean it as a personal attack. Just consider it as an opinion, like everyone else is giving.

[thisisbenji]

On the attack huh? Does it really bother you that much that I want a fast bike? I unlike you don't like having to ring my vehicles out. I don't want a bike that I have to go full or 3/4 throttle to keep up with another guy who's only going 1/2 throttle.

As for test rides I wouldn't even be on this forum asking this question if I could walk into the dealer and test ride both bikes back to back.

According to your logic there's no reason to own a fancy car. Why by a mustang gt if you can't drive it any faster than the v6 on the street? Why don't corvettes put out 70 hp? Because people by these types of vehicles for a rush not for simple transportation. I'm sure not considering a ninja 1000 for its gas mileage as my civic gets in the 40s.

Oh and btw im not bored with my 250 I'm just tired of ringing it out all the time.

[gt_turbo]

sounds like a personal preference problem. i push my 250 close to or all the way to redline on a daily basis. and its a blast! it's a bike, it's made to rev high. as long as you do proper maintenance it will be fine.

who really wants to ride with people that just suddenly dip at high speeds excessively for no reason. sounds like you should get new riding friends. and when you are ready to upgrade, if you jump to a 1,000 or busa, it's not gonna be the end of the world. as long as you've had a good amount of seat time experience, confident in your riding ability, and respect the bikes power you can learn to ride it in due time.

[thisisbenji]

Originally Posted by gt_turbo

sounds like a personal preference problem. i push my 250 close to or all the way to redline on a daily basis. and its a blast! it's a bike, it's made to rev high. as long as you do proper maintenance it will be fine.

who really wants to ride with people that just suddenly dip at high speeds excessively for no reason. sounds like you should get new riding friends. and when you are ready to upgrade, if you jump to a 1,000 or busa, it's not gonna be the end of the world. as long as you've had a good amount of seat time experience, confident in your riding ability, and respect the bikes power you can learn to ride it in due time.

It's not a problem, it's just a personal preference. And where did I say that I ride with people who dip at high speeds excessively for no reason? We like to take off fast from lights that's all. It's not like I'm cruising around at 100 mph, but I do like to cruise at 80 at least on the highway. I don't like the feeling of being constantly passed by cars on the interstate, nor do I like the feeling of 9k rpm going 80.

Btw, I don't really want a 1,000 and for sure not a busa. But the Ninja 1000 does appeal to me with it's upright position and adjustable windscreen.

Back on topic,

One of these used might be a good option? Looks like a good compromise between super sport and sport standard. Does anyone know if other manufactures had a similar bike?

[gt_turbo]

Originally Posted by thisisbenji

It's not a problem, it's just a personal preference. And where did I say that I ride with people who dip at high speeds excessively for no reason? We like to take off fast from lights that's all. It's not like I'm cruising around at 100 mph, but I do like to cruise at 80 at least on the highway. I don't like the feeling of being constantly passed by cars on the interstate, nor do I like the feeling of 9k rpm going 80.

Btw, I don't really want a 1,000 and for sure not a busa. But the Ninja 1000 does appeal to me with it's upright position and adjustable windscreen.

definitely sounds like a problem if you are complaining about it. your thread title clearly says 650 vs. 1000 and you asked for opinions on whether jumping from 250 to 1000 is dangerous. of all things acceleration from a red light to catch up to your buddies is your main concern? that's best reason to upgrade i've ever heard... squid.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by thisisbenji

On the attack huh? Does it really bother you that much that I want a fast bike? I unlike you don't like having to ring my vehicles out. I don't want a bike that I have to go full or 3/4 throttle to keep up with another guy who's only going 1/2 throttle.

As for test rides I wouldn't even be on this forum asking this question if I could walk into the dealer and test ride both bikes back to back.

According to your logic there's no reason to own a fancy car. Why by a mustang gt if you can't drive it any faster than the v6 on the street? Why don't corvettes put out 70 hp? Because people by these types of vehicles for a rush not for simple transportation. I'm sure not considering a ninja 1000 for its gas mileage as my civic gets in the 40s.

Oh and btw im not bored with my 250 I'm just tired of ringing it out all the time.

Trust me, I understand wanting a larger displacement bike. I rode one all last summer. I absolutely loved it. If I said I didn't enjoy my time on it, I would be lying. If you want one, that's justification enough to get one. I'm also not saying there's no reason for a fast car. People want those as well, and that's enough reason to get one. Did you ever see me write that there's no reason to own a vehicle with a larger engine? no. In fact, read through some of my other posts, and I very highly praise the bikes with larger engines that I've ridden, because they're amazing at being what they are.

Also it's not a personal attack, it's an opinion. You asked for opinions. You got an opinion. Don't get all butthurt because you don't like getting what you asked for from someone who doesn't say what you want to hear. My opinion is that if you're looking for a larger engine and justifying it as "keeping up" with your friends, I think you're trying to substitute power and torque for skill on the bike (that is, unless you're purely talking about going as fast as possible in a straight line). Those two things are not equal.

What it comes down to is, both those bikes are great for what you're asking of them. I've ridden both. They're both comfy with plenty of power and have lots of pick-up. Both will excel at speeds much faster than what the 250 does, and both feel much less antsy at 70mph. Also, both handle very nicely. It's just depends on which bike you prefer after a test-ride. You'll do fine on either of those bikes, or any bike for that matter. As long as you understand what your 250 does and why, you will be just fine on any vehicle with 2 wheels and an engine.

Like I said before, my annoyance was from the justification of "keeping up" with the larger bikes. If you want a bike with a larger engine, buy a bike with a larger engine, but suck it up and just admit that you want something with more power and torque; that's perfectly ok. Don't try and justify it as a need to "keep up". There are 250cc racers on here who will show you that there are places on tracks where the larger bikes can't "keep up" with them.

[choneofakind]

BTW, Yamaha Makes the FZ6R, the FZ6, the FZ8, the FZ1.
Kawasaki made the ZZR600 and ninja 500 (which is quick off the line with +2 rear sprocket), makes the ninja 650, 1000.
Honda made the CB600
Suzuki makes the SV650

These are all bikes that are less high strung than supersports, and are not unreasonable next steps from a 250. (I say that with some caution though, because a ninja 1000 and an FZ8 still have oodles of power, and many of those options will still spin the rear if the throttle is used without caution.)

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by dubojr1

BTW... @Jiggles Can you tell us what kind of fuel economy your getting. Anywhere near the estimated 50mpg?
]

If I ride like an asshole then I get 35mpg. If I ride my 650 like I ride my 250 I get 42mpg (the 250 I get 40mpg) And when I ride like grandma I get 55mpg.

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by thisisbenji

I was thinking a turbo busa actually.

So it's seeming to me that the general idea is that the 650 will keep up with 600s unless we are drag racing?

On the right roads a 650 will keep up with an R1, on the same road a 250 with a fast rider will not be too far behind

Put all 3 on an airport runway & you'll have big gaps tho

[etiainen]

Turbo busa vs 747

[KawiKid860]

I think his point is that he rides with people who go from 0-35 in a manner that is not squid like but is unreasonably troublesome for the 250 to do, and he doesnt like to have to ring the bike out to keep up with buddies on 600s who are just riding normally. That doesn't make him a squid. Also, I wouldn't like cruising at 9k, that sounds very.. err buzzy. I'm sure the 250 can handle it nicely, but at 70 my bike is doing 6k which is fine, not overly high and its just starting to make power there so I don't need to downshift or anything, but if vibrations bother you...

[Jiggles]

That's one thing I didn't think of, if the vibration bothers you, then an inline 4 would be better. The FZ6R is a good choice for that, the insurance costs are alot lower than the ninja 1000 and it's about the same price OTD as the ninja 650, but it will have the smoothness of an i4 and some extra horsepower ~ 85hp I believe