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Old July 24th, 2017, 05:41 PM   #1
MakoMoto
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2008 Ninja will not start...I believe I owe her an apology..PLEASE HELP!

Hello everyone! I'm Mako! My first post here. I hope I dont step on any toes...

I am a new rider, Ninja 250r owner and I am glad to meet you all. I am a new member here, as I have heard this is the place to go for Ninjette lovers and intel on proper care for our bikes. With that said, I have an issue I need help with and I hope you all can help! Here is the background:

Approximately 4 years ago I bought a 2008 Ninja 250. I was in college and I was planning on riding it around campus and such and start my motorcycle ridibg life.

Well, it didnt work out as I had hoped.

I put gas in the bike on the way home from purchase and got it home. I rode it around parking lots learning, got my permit and planned for the MSF course. Well, due to school, work and laziness I never ended up riding it much. Maybe a total of 20 miles. It has sat for a couple years (same gas in it as the day i bought it..I know I am sorry. I was an idiot and did not store properly)

I have the time and ability to take responsibility for my beloved bike at this juncture so I put a new battery in, put the key in, and tried to start her up. To my suprise, she started right up. Just as fast as before (the bike was flawless when I purchased. Worked great and fired right up). Well, after about 45 seconds of tough running she stalled out. Now she cranks as normal but will not fire and start the engine.

I I removed the tank, drained it. Tried to drain the carb bowls but just got a light drip of old gas (clogged?). Put fresh gas in with some Seafoam and hooked her back up and still will not fire. My question is:

Is this because my carbs are so incredibly gummed up cause I was a complete moron and didnt store properly? Did I foul the spark plugs? Did water collect in that old gas and when i started it up it ruined my engine? I am not super mechanically inclined and was wondering if the carb removal and clean is easy enough to be done by a noob? I know they can be a pain to get out. My worry is that i wont be able to reassemble. When i took off the gas tank and such I had to color code my hoses so I knew which one went where as well as put screws and clips in plastic bags and label where they cane from. Please help!

I have Seafoam, Berrymans B-12 Chemtool and the tools i need (i believe). I also just ordered: KN-401 oil filter and Rotella T-5 15W-40...new spark plugs and some Berrymans ChemDip.

Any idea why my poor ninja will not start?

Thank you for your time everyone!

TL;DR : An idiot owner started uo his 250 with 4 year old gas in it because he wanted to ride again, and now the 250 will not start. Carb removal and clean?
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Old July 24th, 2017, 05:58 PM   #2
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I feel I should also note that the bike was stored indoors for those couple of years. Not outside.
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Old July 24th, 2017, 07:06 PM   #3
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after four years the fuel has probably evapourated leaving behind a nice varnish clogging up your carbs. seafoam doesnt really work. taking them out is a chore and reconfiguring them after taking them apart is tricky but can be learned... i'd throw new plugs in check the battery voltage n **** the basic check list, spark, new fuel, battery is good, clean fresh oil.. after that suspect carbs...
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Old July 24th, 2017, 07:26 PM   #4
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Yeah, I'd bet the carburetors need a thorough cleaning. I also agree that Sea Foam isn't worth much. If you decide you don't want to do the carb cleaning yourself, and want a like-new set of carbs at a very reasonable price, Ducatiman on the board just posted a couple photos of a set he has ready to go. Not sure if he already sold them though.
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Old July 24th, 2017, 08:12 PM   #5
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Thank you guys for the confirmation of the carbs. Is there a step by step (I need each step &#128514 DIY somewhere on this site? How would I find out if Ducatiman still has a set? As a noob woth the right tools how long would you estimate the removal process to be? Is the syncing hard to do? Is that done after the carbs have been cleaned and put back on the bike? Thanks again guys. Sorry for the the questions, but hey its my first bike and I really do not want to screw it up and never be able to ride this bike again.
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Old July 24th, 2017, 08:29 PM   #6
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There is a ton of information here, in general: https://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Ninja250_Howto

Some or all of what you're asking about is documented.
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Old July 24th, 2017, 11:15 PM   #7
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Welcome to the board!

As a noob, you probably should let ducatiman clean your carbs. That way you'll know it's done right, and can work on anything else that might have gone south while your bike sat. A lot of what the bikes need can be done, even by someone not mechanically inclined or experienced. Read threads here, read the manual, and start taking things apart, paying attention to what goes where.

I'm kind of a noob myself, and this engine is the first one I've really worked on, and (with some assistance) have done all of the maintenance so far on my bike myself. So it's not all that hard! The biggest problem I've run into is that sometimes the clearances are a bit tight so you need to kind of wiggle things to get them out or in.
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Old July 25th, 2017, 04:28 PM   #8
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I feel as if I fo through all the pain of taking them out, I may as well clean them myself too? Or is it possible for me to mess my bike up beyond repair by doing it as a noob? On a scale of 1-10 how difficult of a job is the carb remove and clean and reinstall on the new gen ninja as a noob?
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Old July 25th, 2017, 04:53 PM   #9
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It depends on how good you are with attention to detail and how patient you are. It's not impossible by any means, but not a quick easy job either.
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Old July 25th, 2017, 06:07 PM   #10
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Okie dokie. I think I am going to try it and see how it works. I do have a few friends who are mechanically inclined (one rides a GSXR 600) so hopefully it can be done with out a hitch.

Question though: Would the gummed up carburetor be the cause of the bike not starting (ive seen videos and posts of peoples bikes running with dirty carbs) ? Or is there a seperate issue i need to worry about on top of that? The bike ran oerfect last I rode it and was stored inside. So idk how anything else besides the carb would be bad? Or maybe spark plugs?

Lastly, after I do get the bike gping, it did hit 10k while i had it. Is there any other maintenance (other than oil change amd air filter? Do any of you possibly know where I could purchase a decent pair of flush mount turn indicators?

Im sorry for all the questions...having this wealth of knowledge is so amazing. Thank you all.
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Old July 25th, 2017, 09:51 PM   #11
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flush mounts ebay, ali express. just sit for 3 or 4 hours and start researching this site. everything you need bookmark it. your bookmarks will start your library on keeping your ninja happy. good luck.
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Old July 26th, 2017, 05:39 PM   #12
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Ducatiman is the best . Same situation bike sat for 3 years. He cleaned my carbs and BOOM new bike. He's the best to deal with
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Old July 26th, 2017, 07:45 PM   #13
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So how does it work? I remove my carbs, mail them to him....he cleans them and mails them back. I put back in bike? How much does ot cost? How do I pay? How do I contact him? How long does it take?
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Old July 26th, 2017, 07:47 PM   #14
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pm a'comin' mako
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Old July 26th, 2017, 07:54 PM   #15
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By the By, thank you all for your input and suggestions. I really do appreciate it! Very much!
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Old July 26th, 2017, 07:56 PM   #16
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pm a'comin' mako
The Ducatiman himself. Well I'll be. Thank you.
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Old July 26th, 2017, 10:21 PM   #17
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Hello everyone! I'm Mako! My first post here. I hope I dont step on any toes...

I am a new rider, Ninja 250r owner and I am glad to meet you all. I am a new member here, as I have heard this is the place to go for Ninjette lovers and intel on proper care for our bikes. With that said, I have an issue I need help with and I hope you all can help! Here is the background:

Approximately 4 years ago I bought a 2008 Ninja 250. I was in college and I was planning on riding it around campus and such and start my motorcycle ridibg life.

Well, it didnt work out as I had hoped.

I put gas in the bike on the way home from purchase and got it home. I rode it around parking lots learning, got my permit and planned for the MSF course. Well, due to school, work and laziness I never ended up riding it much. Maybe a total of 20 miles. It has sat for a couple years (same gas in it as the day i bought it..I know I am sorry. I was an idiot and did not store properly)

I have the time and ability to take responsibility for my beloved bike at this juncture so I put a new battery in, put the key in, and tried to start her up. To my suprise, she started right up. Just as fast as before (the bike was flawless when I purchased. Worked great and fired right up). Well, after about 45 seconds of tough running she stalled out. Now she cranks as normal but will not fire and start the engine.

I I removed the tank, drained it. Tried to drain the carb bowls but just got a light drip of old gas (clogged?). Put fresh gas in with some Seafoam and hooked her back up and still will not fire. My question is:

Is this because my carbs are so incredibly gummed up cause I was a complete moron and didnt store properly? Did I foul the spark plugs? Did water collect in that old gas and when i started it up it ruined my engine? I am not super mechanically inclined and was wondering if the carb removal and clean is easy enough to be done by a noob? I know they can be a pain to get out. My worry is that i wont be able to reassemble. When i took off the gas tank and such I had to color code my hoses so I knew which one went where as well as put screws and clips in plastic bags and label where they cane from. Please help!

I have Seafoam, Berrymans B-12 Chemtool and the tools i need (i believe). I also just ordered: KN-401 oil filter and Rotella T-5 15W-40...new spark plugs and some Berrymans ChemDip.

Any idea why my poor ninja will not start?

Thank you for your time everyone!

TL;DR : An idiot owner started uo his 250 with 4 year old gas in it because he wanted to ride again, and now the 250 will not start. Carb removal and clean?
This is the best method I've found to remove the carbs;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD5br8HCfn0

You said that a small amount of fuel came out when you drained your float bowls. Make sure your petcock is working. Disconnect the fuel line to the carbs, pull the vacuum hose from the carbs and suck on the vacuum hose. If fuel comes out your petcock is OK. If not it needs to be replaced or repaired.

Bill
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Old July 26th, 2017, 11:31 PM   #18
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I'll also jump in here, as a noob to the forum and a veteran to the "OMFG my Ninja carbs..." and say that yeah man, your carbs are gonna be rank. They can be fixed in a few hours max.

Just pull em now and don't use that seafoam ****; it is really easy. NEXT TIME, don't store your bike without stabil in the tank and start it every two weeks! Ethanol attaches to the water molecules in fuel now and beats up the brass in the carbs. Doom.

Set aside about 2-3 hours. The night before, watch the video on how to pull the fairings and use the speed rivets properly, and watch the video on how to pull your carbs. Keep track on your bolts in organizers. Pull the tank. Drain that **** out. Drop your tail fairings, drop your battery box, schooch your fender down, airbox backs up and back, schooch your carbs back a tad, sideways and out, off with the bowls, pull the main jets and slow jets, CLEAN them with a scrubby physical method even a wire tie from a bread bag down the jet if you want (but don't gouge them), strip and boil them if you have to, make sure you can 14/10 see daylight again through them again, clean EVERY last spot of visible vergidis (green ****) or it will haunt you for ever) THEN quickly plop it back in the bike, reinstall in about 35 minutes, fresh gas, BAM.

Good luck. There are some REAL smart guys on here you can learn a lot of good things from like RamJet and Ducatiman, if those old dudes don't fight with you first, because they literally have busted and fixed everything on these things.
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Old July 27th, 2017, 02:20 AM   #19
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I'll also jump in here, as a noob to the forum and a veteran to the "OMFG my Ninja carbs..." and say that yeah man, your carbs are gonna be rank. They can be fixed in a few hours max.

Just pull em now and don't use that seafoam ****; it is really easy. NEXT TIME, don't store your bike without stabil in the tank and start it every two weeks! Ethanol attaches to the water molecules in fuel now and beats up the brass in the carbs. Doom.

Set aside about 2-3 hours. The night before, watch the video on how to pull the fairings and use the speed rivets properly, and watch the video on how to pull your carbs. Keep track on your bolts in organizers. Pull the tank. Drain that **** out. Drop your tail fairings, drop your battery box, schooch your fender down, airbox backs up and back, schooch your carbs back a tad, sideways and out, off with the bowls, pull the main jets and slow jets, CLEAN them with a scrubby physical method even a wire tie from a bread bag down the jet if you want (but don't gouge them), strip and boil them if you have to, make sure you can 14/10 see daylight again through them again, clean EVERY last spot of visible vergidis (green ****) or it will haunt you for ever) THEN quickly plop it back in the bike, reinstall in about 35 minutes, fresh gas, BAM.

Good luck. There are some REAL smart guys on here you can learn a lot of good things from like RamJet and Ducatiman, if those old dudes don't fight with you first, because they literally have busted and fixed everything on these things.
Ducatiman says all you need is a good toothbrush. In really tough situations he reaches for his Waterpick. Just kidding. Ducatiman said he used a toothbrush in jest.

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Old July 27th, 2017, 06:11 AM   #20
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and don't forget the spraycan. "Carbs are easy"....not at all. These dormant for 4 years ....IMHO its ill advised to encourage a new owner to even attempt. Leading him to believe he'll be successful borders on cruel and is unrealistic.

Pilot jet removal will be difficult at best....way too easy to strip. Is OP really expected to drill out the pilot screw tamper caps to remove and clean that critical area? Would he even KNOW to do that?

With all due respect..chances are getting them "right"with success *the first time* is very doubtful, of course you'll only find out after reinstalling...then you get to do it all over again....

Honestly, you can't compete with the effective modern machines, complete disassembly, experience, being both aggressive with certain areas and very careful with others....and knowing the difference between.

Here's a frozen pilot screw removal on a recent set...sure, "carbs are easy"
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Old July 27th, 2017, 06:37 AM   #21
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and don't forget the spraycan. "Carbs are easy"....not at all. These dormant for 4 years ....IMHO its ill advised to encourage a new owner to even attempt. Leading him to believe he'll be successful borders on cruel and is unrealistic.

Pilot jet removal will be difficult at best....way too easy to strip. Is OP really expected to drill out the pilot screw tamper caps to remove and clean that critical area? Would he even KNOW to do that?

With all due respect..chances are getting them "right"with success *the first time* is very doubtful, of course you'll only find out after reinstalling...then you get to do it all over again....

Honestly, you can't compete with the effective modern machines, complete disassembly, experience, being both aggressive with certain areas and very careful with others....and knowing the difference between.

Here's a frozen pilot screw removal on a recent set...sure, "carbs are easy"
Right on Gordy! No one has touched any bike or part thereof that I have owned in over 50 years. If I have problems with my 10 year old carbs you will be the first person I contact.

A screw extractor on a carb jet? Jepers!

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Old July 27th, 2017, 06:49 AM   #22
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thats a pilot screw I was forced to extract....absolutely *frozen* in place. Owner believes it was subject to winter road salt spray over a period of years.
I actually saved the carb body....drilling and removal quite nerve wracking.

I had to use heat (propane torch) as well to offer "persuasion" while using the leverage of the pictured tool. The threads were basically fused together, chemical reaction over long duration.

Finished by carefully running the proper size tap, able to clean the threads...a new screw threaded in...and out...perfectly.

Same scenario on the OTHER carb...but the pilot tower cracked during surgery. Fail..but an A for effort...made every attempt to save.

Gave a great deal to owner on a set of refurbs instead....all was well in ninjette land.
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Old July 27th, 2017, 07:16 AM   #23
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A buddy stopped over at the shop yesterday with a small engine carb. Wouldn't flow any gas.

Upon closer inspection the needle on the float valve was stuck firmly in the seat. Air pressure on the inlet wouldn't pop it out. Had to soak it, then tug on it with a pliers to get it out.

The entire inside of the brass seat was green with corrosion, and locked the needle in place.

Got it clean and working.

Thanks ethanol!
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Old July 27th, 2017, 07:18 AM   #24
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thats a pilot screw I was forced to extract....absolutely *frozen* in place. Owner believes it was subject to winter road salt spray over a period of years.
I actually saved the carb body....drilling and removal quite nerve wracking.

I had to use heat (propane torch) as well to offer "persuasion" while using the leverage of the pictured tool. The threads were basically fused together, chemical reaction over long duration.

Finished by carefully running the proper size tap, able to clean the threads...a new screw threaded in...and out...perfectly.

Same scenario on the OTHER carb...but the pilot tower cracked during surgery. Fail..but an A for effort...made every attempt to save.

Gave a great deal to owner on a set of refurbs instead....all was well in ninjette land.
Winter road salt? I wonder what the rest of his bike looked like. If there's snow on the road - I park the bike. Wet roads are bad enough snowy roads are suicide. He may have had no choice if it was his only transportation.

Good work Gordy - above and beyond.

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Old July 27th, 2017, 10:01 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Ram Jet View Post
Winter road salt? I wonder what the rest of his bike looked like. If there's snow on the road - I park the bike. Wet roads are bad enough snowy roads are suicide. He may have had no choice if it was his only transportation.
Good work Gordy - above and beyond.
Bill
Your comments further confirm the point I was tacitly trying to make...folks' individual circumstances differ. Some lack proper workspace and/or tools. Bikes laying dormant over differing lengths of time can have varying effects. Weather, riding, storage habits differ.

A blanket statement as "carbs are easy"....misleading, enlightening and sobering when they are found to NOT be so "easy". Non-runner circumstances can differ wildly. Upon opening, you never know what difficulties you'll encounter....on and on and on....
Attached Images
File Type: jpg pilottip.jpg (87.4 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg r6 spooge.jpg (106.3 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg 350-6.JPG (102.4 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg 350-21.JPG (130.7 KB, 3 views)
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Old July 27th, 2017, 10:29 AM   #26
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Your comments further confirm the point I was tacitly trying to make...folks' individual circumstances differ. Some lack proper workspace and/or tools. Bikes laying dormant over differing lengths of time can have varying effects. Weather, riding, storage habits differ.

A blanket statement as "carbs are easy"....misleading, enlightening and sobering when they are found to NOT be so "easy". Non-runner circumstances can differ wildly. Upon opening, you never know what difficulties you'll encounter....on and on and on....
Good Lord, if I dropped my float bowls and the internals looked like that I'd be on eBay looking for replacement carburetors. You actually restored these poor things?

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Old July 27th, 2017, 11:05 AM   #27
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that was before, heres after
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Old July 27th, 2017, 11:13 AM   #28
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hat was before, heres after
Golly Gordon, you didn't take Brasso to those floats! Tisk tisk.

Nice work!

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Old July 27th, 2017, 11:23 AM   #29
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Update: I have decided to pull the carbs and have Ducatiman clean them for me. I just feel i would get way in over my head with the deep clean (assuming i need it since the gas was 4 years old.) I would rather remove and install once.

While Gordy is doing his thing, I will be replacing spark plugs, changing the oil, installing new blinkers (one broke while moving) and checking all other fluids.

Anything else you guys can recommend to ensure this dormant bike is safe and ready to go for when I get the cleaned carbs in?
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Old July 27th, 2017, 11:57 AM   #30
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Update: I have decided to pull the carbs and have Ducatiman clean them for me. I just feel i would get way in over my head with the deep clean (assuming i need it since the gas was 4 years old.) I would rather remove and install once.

While Gordy is doing his thing, I will be replacing spark plugs, changing the oil, installing new blinkers (one broke while moving) and checking all other fluids.

Anything else you guys can recommend to ensure this dormant bike is safe and ready to go for when I get the cleaned carbs in?
Replace the brake fluid (bleed the brakes).

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Old July 27th, 2017, 11:58 AM   #31
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Don't forget to change the coolant.
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Old July 27th, 2017, 12:00 PM   #32
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Check the valves if it hasn't been done recently, it's due, or you have no idea if it's ever been done...

As far as safety goes, the quality of the tires are probably the most important. Check the dates on the tires. The date is 4 numbers in an oval on the sidewall like "2407". The first two are the week (24th week) the second are the last digits of the year (2007).

If they are original from your '08 Ninja - they are done. 5 years is about the max for a cycle tire.

And check, adjust, and lube the chain.

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Old July 27th, 2017, 04:44 PM   #33
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I would give it a good look over. Check cables, brakes, hoses, change the oil, replace tires and battery.
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Old July 27th, 2017, 05:48 PM   #34
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not sure if anyone has posted to dump the fuel...100% all of it. Research rinsing the tank...your choice of chemical solution. Fill with fresh when ready for startup.

Edit: a reread reveals you've done already. Good show.
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Last futzed with by ducatiman; July 28th, 2017 at 09:19 AM.
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Old August 4th, 2017, 07:02 PM   #35
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received and working on mako's carbs. Any residual fuel within has solidified, affecting every circuit in both carbs. The float valves were frozen solid in place...main, pilot , starter circuits..each required aggressive attention. Thankfully, the pilot jets were easily removed without drama.

There is NO WAY these could have been successfully cleaned in a first attempt..within a home setting...by an owner with minimal carb experience and no specialty tools. Yeah "carbs are easy", sure.

I pulled out all the stops...multiple courses using the machines, carb cleaner, guitar strings, compressed air...whatever/wherever it takes.

I'm confidant Mako's carbs will be transformed into service again....functioning correctly while looking presentable.

A few "before" pics.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg mako1.JPG (124.8 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg mako2.JPG (124.2 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg mako3.JPG (124.0 KB, 11 views)
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Old August 5th, 2017, 09:44 AM   #36
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finished pics....any better? Rest assured the innards are clear, adjusted, tested.

Mako should be rockin'.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg mako4.JPG (119.2 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg mako5.JPG (117.0 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg mako6.JPG (116.0 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg mako7.JPG (125.8 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg mako8.JPG (108.3 KB, 3 views)
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Old August 5th, 2017, 11:07 AM   #37
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finished pics....any better? Rest assured the innards are clear, adjusted, tested.

Mako should be rockin'.
If it weren't for the button head Allen screws you'd think they were shipped directly from Tokyo. Nice work Sir.

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Old August 5th, 2017, 11:46 AM   #38
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Nice! Looks much better.
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Old August 5th, 2017, 12:31 PM   #39
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Wow. Just wow! I am so grateful to you Ducatiman! And all of you that directed me to that decision. They look great! No way I could have done that myself with practically no carb experience. So awesome. Cannot wait to get them back in the bike!
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Old August 5th, 2017, 12:33 PM   #40
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No way to show you, can only offer testimony that no area remained unaffected from fouled fuel.

Clogged air correction jets, needles/needle jets, main/pilot jets, starter pickups, emulsion tubes, float valves...nothing was spared. Calling for repeated, aggressive courses using the various machines and methods I employ.

Through the pictures, I attempt to convey they are as clean inside as out.

The "proof will be in the pudding"....when mako performs start up.

He's away, via email he conveyed it was in his best interests to "farm it out" to me. Four years takes a toll...in all reality... to get these "right" was a fairly difficult task....frankly requiring some commitment, determination and tenacity.

I'll submit this an instance where carbs are clearly not "easy"...not by a longshot.
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