Damn deer almost did me in..

[Jiggles]

It's incredibly difficult to practice a panic stop because you don't panic when you practice. Yes using both brakes stops you fastest, but locking the rear negates all those benefits. If you lock the rear and slips to one side just a bit and you release it, you highside which is why when you lock the rear you are supposed to stay on it and keep it locked. Doing that now leaves you with less momentum keeping you up right and puts you at a high risk to lowside if you are at all leaned or need to swerve.

If I could ride I'd also conduct a test showing the braking power of engine breaking vs skidding, I'd imagine engine braking offers more deceleration.

Anyway, coming in to a thread and advocating that a new rider continue using his rear brake when he is obviously not capable of using it correctly (No offense to OP, it takes a **** ton of practice and years of riding to fully use the rear in a panic situation) is just a bad idea.

And the video will get posted once I get paid

[drac]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

It's incredibly difficult to practice a panic stop because you don't panic when you practice. Yes using both brakes stops you fastest, but locking the rear negates all those benefits. If you lock the rear and slips to one side just a bit and you release it, you highside which is why when you lock the rear you are supposed to stay on it and keep it locked. Doing that now leaves you with less momentum keeping you up right and puts you at a high risk to lowside if you are at all leaned or need to swerve.

If I could ride I'd also conduct a test showing the braking power of engine breaking vs skidding, I'd imagine engine braking offers more deceleration.

Anyway, coming in to a thread and advocating that a new rider continue using his rear brake when he is obviously not capable of using it correctly (No offense to OP, it takes a **** ton of practice and years of riding to fully use the rear in a panic situation) is just a bad idea.

And the video will get posted once I get paid

I would disagree with just about everything you just posted.

The only thing I will comment on is this....."If you lock the rear and slips to one side just a bit and you release it, you highside"

Sorry but that is just not correct. I can easily get my rear tire a good 6-12 inches of center and release the brake with no ill effects. It gives a little wiggle but nothing more......Yes, when you start to see your rear tire out of the corner of your eye, whatever you do don't get off the brake but if you are that out of shape you have already screwed yourself.

I have said my piece. We just disagree.

[Jiggles]

Agreed

[drac]

[Dragonracer76]

So who has a good looking blue ninja 250 for sale? hahaha

[Dragonracer76]

Originally Posted by greg737

We've already had two cases of death-by-deer in North Idaho this spring.

In both incidents it was Harley riders with no helmets on, riding near dawn or dusk which is the worst time for deer activity. One of the cases was two-up and the passenger survived with serious injury.

Here's the Spokane newspaper's text from one of the incidents:



Wonder if it would have been different if he'd been wearing a helmet and some good gear instead of jeans, a jacket and sunglasses?

Here's the other one:

That sucks.. we get a lot of these guys in the ICU I work in. I always wonder the same thing..

[Dragonracer76]

Originally Posted by drac

Glad to hear it wasn't worse than it was.

I live in the woods and the thought of a deer jumping out in front of me scares me to death. I have lived down here 8 years and have already hit 3 in my truck. The woods line most of the roads down here and there is only like 3-10 feet of clearing between the woods and road. All 3 deer I hit happened so fast I never even had time to hit the brakes.

And we move there because it's quiet and "safer".. go figure.. haha I'll just be saving the twisty, pretty state highway for day travel from now on.

[FrugalNinja250]

A failure in communication, imho on the comprehension side, leads to a pointless attack. Not worth playing a loser's game by clarifying when nobody's hearing.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

If you practice using only half your braking system, when an emergency occurs you'll only react with 90% of your available resources.

Fixxerupper

[FrugalNinja250]

Also, what's the insurance company buy back on the bike? On my 2006 it was around $550, I ended up negotiating a settlement that kept the title clear and clean so that I could rebuild it and get back on the road quickly. If your gas tank isn't damaged I'd be interested in buying it, and I'm sure you could sell that low-mile motor for $300-400 fairly easily.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

Both brakes, properly modulated, is the fastest way to stop, period.

Sorry, this isn't universally true. It's not even mostly true, if we're talking about sportbikes on dry pavement. Relevant passage in Cycle World's review of the new Speed Triple last year:

Link to the page itself

Originally Posted by Don Canet, long-time CycleWorld bike tester

The new brakes, along with the very good fork damping control and resistance to bottoming, made brake testing drama free. As is often the case with pure supersport bikes, I achieved my best stopping distance using front brake only, as the rear gets very light and slews out of line with little pedal application.

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

Sloppy and unpracticed braking might benefit with using only the front brake, but why practice poor quality braking in the first place? If you practice using only half your braking system, when an emergency occurs you'll only react with half your available resources.

Actually, here's some more info on practice and coaching:

Originally Posted by Misti

I personally use front brake only when riding a sportbike under almost all situations UNLESS I end up off the road or in a big patch of gravel or something and then I use the rear. I sometimes use both brakes at the same time if I'm cruising on the street and casually stopping at a stop sign or light or on the side of the road. Most of the time when riding and slowing for corners or in an emergency braking situation I use front only, the front brake on sportbikes these days are powerful enough to be used for 100% of the stopping power.

At the Superbike school we teach emergency braking and we coach our students to use the front only (on sportbikes) as it is not as easy to lock up as the rear. Many riders panic in emergency braking situations and hammer on the rear causing it to lock up, skid and fishtale often resulting in a crash.

We coach students to apply the front brake smoothly, progressively and hard enough to be able to come to a quick stop but not hard enough to suddenly lock the front tire. We have a training bike with outriggers that prevent the bike from crashing and we purposely get the students to intentionally lock the front (which takes a lot more force and effort than most riders realize) and then we teach them how to release the pressure enough so that the front unlocks but they still come to a quick stop. From there we get them comfortable with braking just at the verge of locking the front which results in the quickest and safest stops with the least stopping distance. This can be practiced in a parking lot as well without a special training bike just be sure to work up to max braking safely and slowly.

We have also tested riders at our military school where we measure the stopping distance when they use both brakes vs using front brake only and the majority of students (after being coached on how to properly use the front for emergency braking) have a better stopping distance when they use front only because they didn't skid the rear and they weren't distracted by fear of locking up the rear.

Cruisers or bikes with less powerful front brakes will require use of both brakes at the same time in order to bring them to a safe and effective stop.

Misti

Stopping a KLR on wet pavement? Both brakes used gingerly seems like a good idea. Pregen ninjette? Both brakes probably not a bad idea in most cases, the front brake just isn't that powerful without some care/feeding/upgrades. But what you've learned so far on that bike does not hold true for all, or even many, modern bikes.

All of this has been hashed out at length in the "rear brake" threads already; linked from the riding skills sticky. Those are probably the places to continue to debate that particular topic, but it ended up here and shouldn't have been left without proper context.

[FrugalNinja250]

Ditto...

[akima]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

In the KLR crash above he locked his front tire, thus causing the crash. In the previous pass he locked and unlocked his rear tire and maintained full control. Both brakes, properly modulated, is the fastest way to stop, period. Sloppy and unpracticed braking might benefit with using only the front brake, but why practice poor quality braking in the first place? If you practice using only half your braking system, when an emergency occurs you'll only react with half your available resources.

So... someone who doesn't practice much might benefit from using only the front brake, whereas the more practised rider would benefit from combined front and rear braking.

A short while later...

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

I will agree that front brake only works best if you're braking hard enough to be right on the edge of doing a stoppie. Or locking the front like the KLR did. Of course, for most average riders braking that hard with front only is probably going to result in a crash. The difference between perfection fantasy and real world variables, I suppose.

So... someone who is very skilled from practising a lot could benefit from front-only braking on the verge of doing a stoppie, whereas the less-practised, average rider would be better off performing combined front and rear braking.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by akima

So... someone who doesn't practice much might benefit from using only the front brake, whereas the more practised rider would benefit from combined front and rear braking.

A short while later...



So... someone who is very skilled from practising a lot could benefit from front-only braking on the verge of doing a stoppie, whereas the less-practised, average rider would be better off performing combined front and rear braking.

[Dragonracer76]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

you have too much free time Sean. but then i do too now haha.. bonus points for the half korean half scotsman btw.

[Jiggles]

Dude tell me something I don't know. I wish my goddamn motorcycling book would get here. WTF AMAZON!?!?

[Dragonracer76]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

Also, what's the insurance company buy back on the bike? On my 2006 it was around $550, I ended up negotiating a settlement that kept the title clear and clean so that I could rebuild it and get back on the road quickly. If your gas tank isn't damaged I'd be interested in buying it, and I'm sure you could sell that low-mile motor for $300-400 fairly easily.

on mine? it was 2500 with my muzzy, knocked down to 2k after my deductable but boosted back up for my gear that got jacked in the wreck. i had about 15000miles on the odometer and my bike was really well care for and CLEAN with great paint if that helps. I don't have it anymore since it was totalled. So no tank, sorry. brsides it was also beat up anyway.

[Dragonracer76]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Dude tell me something I don't know. I wish my goddamn motorcycling book would get here. WTF AMAZON!?!?

a watched pot man.. haha tired of the chills yet? it's how i know my pills are wearing off cause they make me sweat like a $2 whore.

[Jiggles]

Lol wtf? I never got addicted, I was down to 1 a day when I started running out and rationing my pills, no biggie

[FrugalNinja250]

Have fun with that...

[akima]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

if you're attempting to portray me contradicting myself, you have failed.

I don't think I did fail because Jiggles decided you had made a contradiction based on the content of my post.

You actually contradicted yourself more than once in those two paragraphs I quoted. I pointed out the less obvious contradiction. The more obvious contradiction was:

Former post:

Both brakes, properly modulated, is the fastest way to stop, period.

Latter post:

I will agree that front brake only works best if you're braking hard enough to be right on the edge of doing a stoppie.

You can believe what you like, but personally, I wont be adding much weight to your words when you share those beliefs.

[Dragonracer76]

Originally Posted by trixter

that is why I opted for accessory coverage. I got a check for my bike, hospital bill, and my jacket, glove, and whatever else.

I actually got more than it will cost to replace so I am going to get extra stuff in the process.

I did too. gotta love progressive and USAA. People here want too much for their ninjas and most of them beat the hell out of them and don't do maintanence. I was luck to get the one i did at such a good price so i'll have shop around for 6 months again to find one to replace it. i have time so the fat lady hasn't sung yet.

[Dragonracer76]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Lol wtf? I never got addicted, I was down to 1 a day when I started running out and rationing my pills, no biggie

opiates make me dog sick and hot. (hydrocodone this time) i get my new plate and screws friday. we'll see what they give me then.

[akima]

Originally Posted by Dragonracer76

People here want too much for their ninjas and most of them beat the hell out of them and don't do maintanence.

I'm trying to look after my ninja, but I can see it getting worse over time I guess anything that breaks or ends up looking too worn-out/ugly can always be fixed or replaced. Would be nice to have a garage so I can at least protect it from the weather a bit more when it's not in use.

[Jiggles]

Motorcycle Cover

I have one on my 650 so I don't have to look at her and feel shame and guilt for not loving her properly

[akima]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Motorcycle Cover

I have one on my 650 so I don't have to look at her and feel shame and guilt for not loving her properly

I have one of those... it doesn't feel good enough for her though :/

[Dragonracer76]

Originally Posted by akima

I'm trying to look after my ninja, but I can see it getting worse over time I guess anything that breaks or ends up looking too worn-out/ugly can always be fixed or replaced. Would be nice to have a garage so I can at least protect it from the weather a bit more when it's not in use.

You're preaching to the choir man. I would kill for a garage. When I got out of the Army I took a pretty big pay cut ( wasn't that great to begin with. haha) and I ended up buying my parents little farm and trailer with my savings and tax money. So now all my tools, parts and vehicles are scattered between a storage unit, a feed barn and the floorboards and trucks of my vehicles. The suckiest part so far way changing a head gasket in a Arkansas summer. Put a tool down and pick it up again and it sears to your hand. haha plus mosquitos and having to put all your junk away every time you finish for the night.
I think when I finally finish school and start making something besides chicken scratch, I'll build my house, garage first. haha

[akima]

Originally Posted by Dragonracer76

I think when I finally finish school and start making something besides chicken scratch, I'll build my house, garage first. haha

Dooo eet! If I built my own place (which I'm never going to do in England because land is ridiculously expensive here, the gov are control freaks about what you can do with your land and the weather is mostly horrid!) I'd build something that was self-sufficient. Power generation, drinking water purification, sewage management and even food production all built into the house. Contemporary houses have zero appeal to me. They're so unimaginative and entirely dependent on vulnerable, expensive, centralised resources.

[akima]

Originally Posted by trixter

Get one with some lace and a floral print. Make her a sundress.

Awww! I like ur thinking!

[akima]

Originally Posted by trixter

As a bonus I can secede and form my own nation (yes really) letting me opt out of things like building permits, property taxes, and if I am exceptionally clever income tax. All of this with the governments blessing (and a whole agency dedicated to helping me do it).

tee hee

How? What agency? Curious! Is this to do with being a freeman on the land? I've heard about those guys here and read up on it a little bit. I'm not sure how effective it is.

[Jiggles]

You live in an interesting fantasy world trixter

[akima]

That sounds awesome trixter. You need good people to do it with though. It would be nice having that level of freedom, but not so nice to do it alone.

[akima]

I want to be an Indian and have a forest to live in! No ass-hat government stealing from me and telling me what to do.

[akima]

Originally Posted by trixter

That could be arranged

You're like 50 times my height... it wont work out

[Jiggles]

Video tape it. I want to see some interracial squirrel on man lovin'

[akima]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Video tape it. I want to see some interracial squirrel on man lovin'

I have at times considered that I might just be a human girl with cross-species identity issues

I must sleep now. Nini all

[Jiggles]

What? It's only 3pm!

Friggin squirrels

[Dragonracer76]

Originally Posted by akima

Dooo eet! If I built my own place (which I'm never going to do in England because land is ridiculously expensive here, the gov are control freaks about what you can do with your land and the weather is mostly horrid!) I'd build something that was self-sufficient. Power generation, drinking water purification, sewage management and even food production all built into the house. Contemporary houses have zero appeal to me. They're so unimaginative and entirely dependent on vulnerable, expensive, centralised resources.

I feel ya. It was the same in Germany. European countries are just screwed on space. You should check out Ben Law. He's in the UK and awesome. We're planning on doing the same. I hate the way The bad part is that a lot of other countries have followed our crappy example. Here's a video on Ben
Law.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgduN...eature=related

[Hoodie Ninja]

glad to hear you are OK.

[Dragonracer76]

Thanks Hoodie.