My friend dropped my bike! and doesn't know why..

[TenaciousD]

Sounds like you're getting some good advice but perhaps it's a bit confusing with all the different viewpoints coming at you. Simply taking the MSF class would clear up 99% of your problems at this point. You're learning bad habits and will continue to have scary moments unless you get yourself on the right path. You might even get hurt.

[setasai]

Originally Posted by jd254

1. obviously...

2. If I'm accelerating through the turn and my front wheel goes into the sink hole and curve hard right AS IM TURNING... you really think the light front will just go over and not go with the turn? yes more experienced riders... chime in.

As I said earlier... yes accelerate in and out of a turn. You seriously need to stop fighting on this. It is how it's done and if you dont feel comfortable doing it then go spend the money and take the class so that they can watch you and make sure you're doing it right.

3. side question: I'm riding really fast and I didn't see the 50 potholes in front of me that is UNAVOIDABLE to dodge. Switching lanes is not an option atm. I'm going 65mph. What I do is squeeze the clutch, stand up to let my legs absorb the boucing motion... and hold the steering wheel tight to not let it turn too far, but let it turn as needed. anything wrong with this? my brother said he accelerated out of this before and was fine. he told me I shouldn't do that but ride it through... I rode it through and got a FAT dent on my rim. ugh. A-hole driver to my left wouldn't let me switch lane. I went to the left and he accelerated up to block me. slowing down and going behind him was too tricky since it was dark and I'm sure I would have just went into the car behind him if I tried.

Dear god slowwwwwww down!!! Leave more space so you can see what's coming in front of you. If there a many potholes coming up and you didnt see it till you hit the first one... why did you continue at that speed? Slow down, leave time to avoid the others and use countersteering to force the bike to swerve sharply and quickly around as many as you can.

The fact that someone was next to you and you couldnt switch lanes means you arent paying attention to your surroundings. Always leave a way out. It is imperative in both a cager and on a motorcycle that you do this. You never know what's going to happen... Oh and before I forget... calm down and control that road rage... it leads to bad decisions and more risk taking.

If you must go through them, STOP PULLING IN ON THE CLUTCH!!!!! You dont need to accelerate but maintain speed or even slow down and then maintain speed. As for standing up on the pegs, sure you can do that just dont stand straight up... lift your body off the seat slightly and use your knees to absorb the shock.

You keep asking the same questions over and over. If you want me to stop responding and wait for a "more experienced" rider to respond... do let me know but I will say this again... MSF COURSE!!! and/or READ THOSE BOOKS!

Just trying to help.

[jd254]

Originally Posted by setasai

As I said earlier... yes accelerate in and out of a turn. You seriously need to stop fighting on this. It is how it's done and if you dont feel comfortable doing it then go spend the money and take the class so that they can watch you and make sure you're doing it right.



Dear god slowwwwwww down!!! Leave more space so you can see what's coming in front of you. If there a many potholes coming up and you didnt see it till you hit the first one... why did you continue at that speed? Slow down, leave time to avoid the others and use countersteering to force the bike to swerve sharply and quickly around as many as you can.

The fact that someone was next to you and you couldnt switch lanes means you arent paying attention to your surroundings. Always leave a way out. It is imperative in both a cager and on a motorcycle that you do this. You never know what's going to happen... Oh and before I forget... calm down and control that road rage... it leads to bad decisions and more risk taking.

If you must go through them, STOP PULLING IN ON THE CLUTCH!!!!! You dont need to accelerate but maintain speed or even slow down and then maintain speed. As for standing up on the pegs, sure you can do that just dont stand straight up... lift your body off the seat slightly and use your knees to absorb the shock.

You keep asking the same questions over and over. If you want me to stop responding and wait for a "more experienced" rider to respond... do let me know but I will say this again... MSF COURSE!!! and/or READ THOSE BOOKS!

Just trying to help.

...It was a 65mph zone.. and everybody is going 80 to 90mph... And it wasn't like I waited until the first pothole. I had a good 10 seconds to respond to the up coming potholes. We aren't talking about various potholes up ahead... these are "unavoidable" potholes where the entire lane is covered with it. there WAS a way out, and he didn't want to let me pass. I told you. I switched and HE sped up to block me. You have to understand there are aholes who doesn't like bikers. I slow down to go behind him but it was too dark to judge the distance of the car behind him, so I went back and took the potholes on.

This forum sucks. people are just here to tell you what a bad rider you are. I clearly stated it was unavoidable. "always leave a way out"??? go die. When there's stupid drivers... you don't get this option.

ok, I got it. dont pull the clutch. I was merely asking if the rule apply to potholes... since were not talking about riding over anything. potholes comes in all sizes, and if the pot hole is deep enough... pulling the clutch might be the best option.

[scottsa]

Pulling the clutch would never be the best option for potholes that I can see. Pulling the clutch is going to transfer weight forward as nothing is driving the rear wheel, more weight on the front is going to cause the front to sink deeper into the hole and make it harder for the front to come up out of the hole. I will stay out of the entire unavoidable arguement.

[ForceofWill]

Originally Posted by scottsa

Pulling the clutch would never be the best option for potholes that I can see. Pulling the clutch is going to transfer weight forward as nothing is driving the rear wheel, more weight on the front is going to cause the front to sink deeper into the hole and make it harder for the front to come up out of the hole. I will stay out of the entire unavoidable arguement.

Agreed, weighting the front end is not going to help that situation, just gonna upset the bike more.

Buy and read, "Proficient Motorcycling." Every topic and situation you've mentioned is answered in that book. I bought Twist of the Wrist II also, and for a new rider, "Proficient Motorcycling," was much more informative. I actually didn't find much in Keith Code's book that wasn't covered better by it. It goes over everything from counter steering to riding in dirt/snow/ice.

[setasai]

Originally Posted by jd254

This forum sucks. people are just here to tell you what a bad rider you are. I clearly stated it was unavoidable. "always leave a way out"??? go die. When there's stupid drivers... you don't get this option.

pulling the clutch might be the best option.

Why do you insist that pulling the clutch is the best option? It never is but if you insist then fine.

Unavoidable... ok then do what I said after that... go through it and give it a little throttle but slow down and if you can swerve, do it... if you cant, then go over it.

Geebus not everybody is a bad rider but you're obviously making bad riding choices. If you prefer we dont warn you about your errors then dont ask. If you ask then expect the truth as bluntly as possible. We arent your parents. There is no reason to sugar coat anything BUT count on us to tell you straight up when you're doing something wrong.

This forum is full of information but your attitude is like going to a WindowsPC forum and insisting that sometimes deleting critical system files is the right decision. Everybody there will bluntly tell you NO ITS NOT!

I've been trying to be as helpful as possible by being detailed and straight forward. I'm sorry if you're offended or angry at the responses. How else would you have us word it? "Clutch pull bad?" FYI, We recommend ALL riders take the MSF and read as much material as possible.

[Jay72]

Originally Posted by jd254

...It was a 65mph zone.. and everybody is going 80 to 90mph... And it wasn't like I waited until the first pothole. I had a good 10 seconds to respond to the up coming potholes. We aren't talking about various potholes up ahead... these are "unavoidable" potholes where the entire lane is covered with it. there WAS a way out, and he didn't want to let me pass. I told you. I switched and HE sped up to block me. You have to understand there are aholes who doesn't like bikers. I slow down to go behind him but it was too dark to judge the distance of the car behind him, so I went back and took the potholes on.

This forum sucks. people are just here to tell you what a bad rider you are. I clearly stated it was unavoidable. "always leave a way out"??? go die. When there's stupid drivers... you don't get this option.

ok, I got it. dont pull the clutch. I was merely asking if the rule apply to potholes... since were not talking about riding over anything. potholes comes in all sizes, and if the pot hole is deep enough... pulling the clutch might be the best option.

After reading this for the last few days I have come to the conclusion that you are a bull headed moron!!! For crying out loud dude, saying this forum sucks!!!! People have been trying to help you from your very first post but it doesn't matter what they say, you have a come back or complaint. You say you are confident in your riding skills, well here is some constructive criticism, learn a lot more and listen to what people are telling you. It is pretty clear to me you are young. You need to take your head out of your a$$ and listen. Your skills are not very good at all if you thought is was good practice to pull your clutch in going around a corner (as you said you do often) and over pot holes. Open up, stop being stubborn and enjoy riding before you die!!

[akima]

Originally Posted by ForceofWill

Agreed, weighting the front end is not going to help that situation, just gonna upset the bike more.

Buy and read, "Proficient Motorcycling." Every topic and situation you've mentioned is answered in that book. I bought Twist of the Wrist II also, and for a new rider, "Proficient Motorcycling," was much more informative. I actually didn't find much in Keith Code's book that wasn't covered better by it. It goes over everything from counter steering to riding in dirt/snow/ice.

So far I've been studying Keith Code's book. I just looked up "Proficient Motorcycling". I'll give it a read. Is it authored by David Hough?

[gfloyd2002]

Originally Posted by akima

So far I've been studying Keith Code's book. I just looked up "Proficient Motorcycling". I'll give it a read. Is it authored by David Hough?

Yup, Hough. Best book out there for street riding, imho. He also has a follow up called "More Proficient Motorcycling" that is equally good. Available on Kindle, too. Apropos to this thread, Hough's main theme is that the rider can nearly always avoid, and must always take responsibility for, an accident.

[akima]

Originally Posted by gfloyd2002

Yup, Hough. Best book out there for street riding, imho. He also has a follow up called "More Proficient Motorcycling" that is equally good. Available on Kindle, too. Apropos to this thread, Hough's main theme is that the rider can nearly always avoid, and must always take responsibility for, an accident.

Excellent. Definitely going to give it a read now. Your recommendations have value to me.

I like the philosophy of "the rider can nearly always avoid, and must always take responsibility for, an accident". It makes me feel empowered: like the outcome of any given riding situation rests with me, not with chance, the environment or other people who are beyond my control.

I also want to get as much good riding technique crammed into my head as I can, while I'm still a noobie. Easier to learn it right, now, than to correct bad habits later.

There are lots of advanced rider courses available in the UK. As soon as I have the money I want to go on some of them. I imagine there are things that experienced riders can spot which I can't spot from reading books.

[jd254]

This is like talking to me ex.. jeebus.

1. Yes... pulling clutch is bad. confirmed. Got it. Not sure if I can make it clearer that I got it. I already said I got it before, yet ppl are still reading "no... its best to pull th clutch" which leads me to point 2
2. Thank you forum for all your informative response. I didn't show apreciation for this but only insulted the poor response. The reason I find some response poor is because you all assume I'm doing something stupid without reading what I wrote. Yes I asked if pulling the clutch rule applies to potholes too. U continued to respond to that by saying "yes, stop asking the same questions and drive better! Slow down. It was avoidable" all of that was so unecessary. Sugarcoating is not needed for something that wasn't even required in the first place. My feelings weren't hurt. I just find that some people have this idea that I don't know what I'm doing at all because I'm asking questions about things I don't know. Kinda obvious that I should know to always look ahead. How did u think I saw those potholes?

Explaining myself in full detail like this makes forums as awesome as this ineffective. So I only like to ask straight to the point questions... but that doesn't always work which leads me back to my first sentence.

Thank you guys.... if I find a pdf version, would any mod or admin mind if i post it here?

[Alex]

Originally Posted by jd254

if I find a pdf version, would any mod or admin mind if i post it here?

A PDF version of what?

From our TOS:

2.12. Members should not post copyrighted materials without permission of author or photographer as applicable.

[jd254]

Originally Posted by Alex

A PDF version of what?

From our TOS:

I was just going to offer pdf versions of whatever books that were recommended to me. guess not.

just wanted to give back

[jd254]

Originally Posted by gfloyd2002

Hough's main theme is that the rider can nearly always avoid, and must always take responsibility for, an accident.

I also like this philosophy also. My parents tried to teach me this with "I don't care if it was your fault or not. If you weren't out there driving so much, this never would have happened"

After multiple rear ends which was out of my control... I've decided to put it back in my control. I now stop with a lot of room in front of me and I'm constantly looking at my rear view mirror and being ready to drive away from another rear end helps (literally saved my butt at least twice in the last 3 years)

Also... all my accidents happens when I'm driving at low speed (under 20mph) so now I always carefully speed pass cars until I'm driving by myself on the road. I know some of you will call me reckless and a noob, but part of driving safely is to not drive near dangerous conditions, and driving near other drivers is literally dangerous.

A third rule I always abide by is to not drive relaxed (obviously). People always running me off the road. I just don't understand why they can't just open their eyes... look left and see my CAR before switching lanes. I mean...

I'm an accident magnet btw. I'm dodging cars left and right at least twice a week and it's never when I'm speeding.

following my rules (only 3 listed here)... I've been accident free for the last 4 years.

I'm still learning with the bike so.. I guess this first drop was an easy learning experience. So different from a car... need to make up some new rules.

[onetruevibe]

Originally Posted by akima

It's pretty hard figuring out those reasons. For instance, with counter-steering, I'm certain it works, but I can't quite figure out why it works?! I know that turning the bars to the left causes the bike to tip to the right. That makes perfect sense to me. What I can't picture in my mind is why the bike actually turns to the right!

Chapter 2 of "Proficient Motorcycling."

I had to read it a couple of times for it to stick...but it's all in there!

Stay curious and keep learning!

[gfloyd2002]

Awesome attitude, JD.

I ride my bike like every car out there is out to get me. Main difference from driving the car is that I'm always thinking about road conditions/traction and always watching for people to pull out in front of me from a side road. It is amazing how often cars don't see you when you are on a motorcycle.

Because of traction and visibility concerns, I find that the best technique is to never overdrive my stopping distance. If there is a potential obstacle, like a car that might pull out or a potential change in road surface, I'll keep my speed down so I can scrub it in a worst case scenario. Usually about 30mph works when you spot a possible problem like an uncertain surface or a car waiting to pull out - easy to quickly get to zero from there, and its amazing how much additional stopping distance you need at going 40, 50 and above.

Off topic a bit, but I've found that looking at the front wheel of cars waiting to pull out is a great technique. You can see the movement of that front wheel with the slightest creep out towards an intersection, and you can pick up movement better than if you are looking at the whole car, or the hood or bumper. Saved my bacon a few times -- you see that wheel start to turn and you know the car may pull out, so you get down to 30 mph or below immediately and cover the brake and clutch. More than once, I'd had a car pull out, oblivious that I was there, and I was able to avoid any drama. Totally would have been his fault if he'd pulled out with me coming and nailed me, but good example of how we can still control our own destiny and avoid other people's mistakes.

[setasai]

Originally Posted by gfloyd2002

Available on Kindle, too.

But the kindle version doesnt have all the pretty pictures in COLOR!

Originally Posted by jd254

ok, I got it. dont pull the clutch. I was merely asking if the rule apply to potholes... since were not talking about riding over anything. potholes comes in all sizes, and if the pot hole is deep enough... pulling the clutch might be the best option.

I told you AGAIN because in your post you said this^^. That let me to believe that you still did not understand what I was saying. So, I repeated myself.

As for the other things... I am not you, the actual rider. I will state everything that I think needs to be done. If you are doing it and think you are doing it well then I say "kudos". If for any reason you think I might be right and you can do better then I hope you see that and do better. All I am trying to do is say everything and anything that can do to help you in another similar situation but I wasnt there... nobody here was... only YOU and only you alone.

Good job on your rules! Be careful and ride safe. Might I start your riding rulebook with ATGATT, ride happy, and no alcohol for the day if you're riding.

[jd254]

Originally Posted by gfloyd2002

Awesome attitude, JD.

I ride my bike like every car out there is out to get me. Main difference from driving the car is that I'm always thinking about road conditions/traction and always watching for people to pull out in front of me from a side road. It is amazing how often cars don't see you when you are on a motorcycle.

one thing that isn't burned into my brain yet are the parked cars... I never look out for parked cars that may be pulling out without looking. I think I need a few more near miss before it becomes a natural reflex to be ready for it.

the first one was the scariest. The dumb b1tch with her kid in the back didn't look as she pulled out, and not only that, she decides to make a u turn from a parking space. If she did it slowly... I wouldn't have too much of a problem but that lady just floored it. I think this was my first skid. (hehe I skidded it like how I do on a bicycle. hmmm what did the other forum members say... I have to apply more front and less back in this scenario?)

[jd254]

Originally Posted by setasai

Good job on your rules! Be careful and ride safe. Might I start your riding rulebook with ATGATT, ride happy, and no alcohol for the day if you're riding.

man I hate it when you guys give me good advices that will cost me money... ugh. ATGATT will be next year after I finish college this semester and get myself a FT position.

I got a helmet. I wear jeans and boots. What should my next gear be?

how can you NOT be happy when you ride?

I don't drink

[akima]

Originally Posted by jd254

I also like this philosophy also. My parents tried to teach me this with "I don't care if it was your fault or not. If you weren't out there driving so much, this never would have happened"

After multiple rear ends which was out of my control... I've decided to put it back in my control. I now stop with a lot of room in front of me and I'm constantly looking at my rear view mirror and being ready to drive away from another rear end helps (literally saved my butt at least twice in the last 3 years)

I can't be sure but it sounds a bit like your parents hadn't quite grasped the difference between risk and blame.

The difference between risk and blame can be hard to understand. I differentiate them in my mind like this: if I do not perform a mirror check when I come to a stop at some traffic lights and then someone rear ends me, I stupidly increased the risk of something bad happening to me, but I absolutely am not to blame for the accident. The person who drove into my rear is to blame. As a woman and as a rider it's important to have this concept clear in my head. I choose not to be out by myself in the city when it's dark, to decrease the risk of getting attacked and I also chose to learn some self-defence techniques so that if I am attacked I have a better chance of coming out ok. Some women will walk the streets alone at night and some women will not choose to take self-defence lessons. If they are attacked that does not mean they are to blame; the attacker is 100% to blame, but they did [knowingly or unknowingly] increase the risk. Motorcycle riding is exactly the same. I think it is good practice to always 100% support those people who have been in a motorcycle accident that was caused by another road user despite what measures they did or did not take to reduce the risk. Obviously it's sensible for each of us to reduce our risks and help each other reduce their risks too.

The philosophy that Floyd mentioned is great so long as we don't internalise the idea that it's always our fault if we get in an accident. I don't think that's a healthy attitude. Back to the women being attacked simile; imagine how horrible it would be, to be raped and then even after the rape have this idea in your head that because you may not have done enough to reduce the risk, you are to blame. I don't think it's as bad for a motorcyclist getting in an accident, but I don't think it would be nice either to be lying in hospital after some drunk fool crashed into you, believing that you are to blame. It would be even worse [in both of these scenarios] if people around you were offering no support/sympathy because they mistakenly believed that you were to blame.

Sorry if I turned the conversation a little bit dark! It just seemed like a relevant simile.

Originally Posted by jd254

Also... all my accidents happens when I'm driving at low speed (under 20mph) so now I always carefully speed pass cars until I'm driving by myself on the road. I know some of you will call me reckless and a noob, but part of driving safely is to not drive near dangerous conditions, and driving near other drivers is literally dangerous.

I do the same. If someone is driving erratically/dangerously then I try to safely get away from them. I wont always overtake, sometimes I'll just make a much bigger distance between us or if there are multiple lanes I'll switch to a slower lane adding maybe ~5 minutes onto my journey time but creating a safe distance between myself and the crazy person.

[jd254]

Originally Posted by akima

...the difference between risk and blame....

fyi: I'm stealing everything you wrote and pretending I came up with it.

[akima]

Originally Posted by gfloyd2002

Off topic a bit, but I've found that looking at the front wheel of cars waiting to pull out is a great technique. You can see the movement of that front wheel with the slightest creep out towards an intersection, and you can pick up movement better than if you are looking at the whole car, or the hood or bumper. Saved my bacon a few times -- you see that wheel start to turn and you know the car may pull out, so you get down to 30 mph or below immediately and cover the brake and clutch. More than once, I'd had a car pull out, oblivious that I was there, and I was able to avoid any drama. Totally would have been his fault if he'd pulled out with me coming and nailed me, but good example of how we can still control our own destiny and avoid other people's mistakes.

You seem to have the difference between risk and blame figured out!

Thanks for the front-wheel tip. That sounds like very good advice to me. I fully appreciate the stopping distance thing too; I've seen the stats on how stopping distance increases exponentially as you add more speed and to some extent I've experimented with it on my bike. The idea of dropping down to 30MPH for events like this makes perfect sense (so long as you throw in some mirror checks to make sure anyone behind you has noticed your change of speed... tail gaters... grrrrrr).

[akima]

Originally Posted by jd254

fyi: I'm stealing everything you wrote and pretending I came up with it.

He he... honoured that you think my words are worthy of stealing

[akima]

Originally Posted by jd254

one thing that isn't burned into my brain yet are the parked cars... I never look out for parked cars that may be pulling out without looking. I think I need a few more near miss before it becomes a natural reflex to be ready for it.

I haven't had anyone pull out in front of me yet from a parking space. Thanks for the reminder. I think I'll review my riding behaviour around parked cars. When I was on a motorcycle course earlier this year they did cover this a bit. Much of the emphasis was on setting your speed correctly so you have time to stop or perform a controlled swerve if someone suddenly pulls out. They also talked about road position: position the bike away from the parked cars. One final thing they mentioned was that if parked cars on the road meant that 2 cars can't use the same stretch of road, then you shouldn't use the reduced width of the bike to your speed advantage and share the road with an oncoming car. This means you will be squeezed up close against both the oncoming car and the parked cars. This gives you no room to manoeuvre. My instructors said that you should present yourself in the road such that the oncoming car wont attempt to share the road with you. I normally give them a friendly wave after doing that because I know it probably annoys them... I'd rather they be annoyed than I be squished.

Originally Posted by jd254

I got a helmet. I wear jeans and boots. What should my next gear be?

You want every inch of you skin covered in abrasion resistant protective motorcycle gear. This means you need: protective trousers, jacket, gloves, boots and helmet. They all need to be fitted securely so that if you come off the bike none of your gear is going to come off. What good are highly abrasion resistant gloves if the moment you start sliding on the road your gloves pop-off?

You also want impact protection built into your gear, with the crucial areas being: ankles, knees, hips, spine, shoulders, head and elbows.

Finally: your gear should be pretty (so you want to wear it!) and suitable for the weather that you ride in. Getting too hot or too cold can be very dangerous in and of itself.

[gfloyd2002]

Originally Posted by akima

Finally: your gear should be pretty (so you want to wear it!)

lol @ women riders. Get what is practical, and wear ugly stuff with pride.

[setasai]

Originally Posted by jd254

man I hate it when you guys give me good advices that will cost me money... ugh. ATGATT will be next year after I finish college this semester and get myself a FT position.

I got a helmet. I wear jeans and boots. What should my next gear be?

how can you NOT be happy when you ride?

I don't drink

Jacket and gloves would be what I would get next. I would start looking now anyways. Who knows when you'll find a good jacket on closeout. I've seen fantastic leather jackets that retail $500 go for $150 on closeout and a nice protective glove can be discounted as cheap as $50. As for jeans, consider purchasing some knee armor... some for as cheap as $30 can still be a huge step up in protection.

Look at revzilla.com, sportbiketrackgear.com, motorcycle-superstore.com, motorcyclegear.com... there are a few others but these are the ones I check often for closeouts and reviews. Be patient and you'll find wicked cool gear that makes you WANT to wear it at prices that make you proud to own it.

Some people get on a bike all angry and ready to ride risky and agressive. Not a good attitude when you need all you're attention for riding as you have already noticed.

[Numbersix]

One more thought about clutching:

The clutch (obviously) disconnects the engine from the drivetrain. Somewhere in here there was a comparison to a bicycle; you can analogize (roughly) to not pedaling while the bike coasts about.

The really important difference is that on a bike, if you start moving your feet nothing happens until your pedaling provides forward power, and a bike's mechanism doesn't provide any deceleration when you stop pedaling (no 'engine brake) except for some very old one-speeds.

You can, on a bike, break (not brake) the rear wheel free from a coast if you really stomp on the pedal. By 'break free' I mean cause the tire to spin rather than roll. Maybe this is obvious, but that's the same kind of traction you get in a skid; less, aka 'bad.'

In a car (or motorcycle) you can get the same effect by dropping the clutch with the revs up significantly higher than your travelling speed.

The converse can happen if you declutch and your revs are significantly *lower* than your travelling speed. Any time the engine+transmission suddenly says X mph, and you're doing Y mph, and the difference between X and Y is more than your tire's --->spare<--- grip -- what's not already being used to handle whatever maneuver you're doing -- your tire is now a slidy thing and not a rolly thing.

Also bad for grip is suddenly shifting the weight about. Sudden engine braking will cause weight to shift to the front, putting weight on it and increasing its tire patch (the bit in contact with the road). Lots of grip on the front wheel. Then, and unlike manual braking not so much under your direct control, the forks uncompress, the weight goes off, the tire patch shrinks, and all the front wheel grip goes away.

If your wheels weren't perfectly straight during all this the effect is that the bike straightens up or even highsides and the rider may go over and off in the same direction (hmm, this sounds like the first post...). This tendency is exacerbated if the initial engine braking takes so much weight off the rear that it slides first.

In a car this 'just' causes oversteer because the center of gravity of a car is well inside of its outside wheels (aka it's in the middle of the car). It still isn't a good thing unless you're trying to initiate a drifting contest.

With the clutch out, even dropping the throttle won't (usually; I haven't tried closing the throttle in 1st from 12k RPM and I'm not going to) cause this disaster. Maximum maneuvering grip is obtained by keeping throttle neutral, not clutching.

[Blackwidow]

soooo after reading a gazillion posts, hope you're still going to pay for your friends bike, because at the end of the day...YOU DROPPED THE BIKE. if you're still not clear as to what happened to the bike, but so clearly and so vividly remember every movement that took place, maybe you should hop on your own bike and re-enact the whole incident and see what happens.

bottom line is, you dropped someone elses bike, and it would be only morally correct to pay for the damages...that my .02 cents

[Locksmiff]

Originally Posted by Blackwidow

soooo after reading a gazillion posts, hope you're still going to pay for your friends bike, because at the end of the day...YOU DROPPED THE BIKE...........

The friend apparently smashed his car, makes them even now apparently according to the friend who stacked the bike.

It would appear no honour amongst friends if the stories are correct, besides no friend has asked the other friend to cough up for any costs for damages, so really that side of it is none of our business only what has been openly said in this topic by either friend is.

The girlfriend should be responsible anyway, she was the one supposed to be riding it, not her brother.

[setasai]

It's ok. The past is the past. I think the OP and many other members on this forum has learned something. So i think this thread has served its purpose. Let us not dwell on the past and look towards a fruitful and enjoyable riding future.

[scottsa]

Originally Posted by setasai

But the kindle version doesnt have all the pretty pictures in COLOR!

It does if you have a color version of the Nook.

[onetruevibe]

Or the Kindle app on your iPad.

[Jiggles]

Or a book...

[Havok]

With clutch in and no throttle you had your front end compressed in the turn, with the front tire turned a small elevation change in the road like if the road comes up or your go down in a divit it may through you over the top. Honestly think you just tucked the front end, perhaps a bit of front brake and since the front was compressed you fell over the bike when it did.

From now on power through the turns, even out your suspension and learn proper riding technique.

[drowe531]

Jeff beat me to it, but when taking a turn you should slow down and make sure your in the proper gear before you actually start the turn. You shouldn't have to pull in the clutch or use the brakes in a turn. If for some reason you do have to pull in the clutch or brake be sure to stand the bike up straight. Once you enter the turn you should at least keep the throttle even but best practice is to start accelerating once you hit the peak of the turn.

I'm sure New Jersey can be just as fun as driving in Boston. Be sure to constantly be looking at your surroundings and I usually go with expecting everyone to pull out in front of you.

For red lights and intersections, wait another second at the light after it turns green. There are too many people that go through lights as you have already seen.

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Or a book...

word

[loz944]

Ok my 2 pennies worth what ever the reason for the accident is now irrelevant I have been riding Bikes on and off for nearly 30 years.

Bikes have changed greatly in that time and so has road conditions also the way we are taught to ride has changed.

WE ARE HUMAN WE F**K UP

we never stop learning I read books watch videos all the time and have found out recently things I was unaware off


As said before you are young your perception of danger is probably very different from older riders Just relax enjoy the ride speed is great we all love it but time, place ,etc.

read some of the crash threads here learn by what happened to them .

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by jd254

k i can accept that. I knew it would happen, but I was just tired of "you're a noob, you dropped it cuz you didn't know what you were doing" kind of answers. I wouldn't have a problem admitting to something I did. the whole thing was just so weird.

I don't skid on purpose. (those damn metal bridges are scary!) I'm just saying I handle them better than I expected when things come popping out in front of me. We're talking about cars that run stop signs and red lights, parked cars that decides to pull out without looking just as I'm passing by, car that changes lanes without looking just as I'm passing by (this one I couldn't do anything but braked and lean left. I accepted my fate and closed my eyes when his car was already half way on my lane. he saw me last sec and swerved away. eyes were closed for a good 3 secs.)

friggin Jersey City

MSF is expensive. both cris n my sis took it I think, but they did the motorcycle course thing to get their license, and during Hurricane Irene... so I think the instructors just skipped through it. I'll be ok (I'm an organ donor. so my death will be put to good use)

A lot can happen in 3 seconds, lucky you weren't killed
If you're in a bad enough smash then you tend to rupture organs, so no you won't be any use (other than worm food)

Originally Posted by jd254

I was holding the clutch through the turn (which apparently I shouldn't be doing) so I dont think this theory pans out neither. there was no stutter. it was smooth. bike didnt spin neither...

Sounds like clutch in caused you to lowside, to avoid lowsiding you dumped the clutch & highsided.

Originally Posted by jd254

i didn't say you were being mean. I'm just saying... its so easy for everybody to point the finger and place blame on the rider. Yes I dropped the bike. I don't know why and I would like to know why so I don't do it again. Things turn out to be inconclusive. fine. I'm just very sensitive to the "it's your fault no matter what" treatment. When I first started driving... I was rear ended at least four times when I was waiting at a red light. Do you know how many ppl offer up reasons as to why it was my fault? everybody. don't even get me started on the story when I drove a car into a wall. I have an extra convenient excuse for that one too. It's going to sound too convenient that you won't believe me and still say it was my fault. (excuse is there was oil on the road, a lot of oil, or some slippery substance, and it rained RIGHT after the incident so I cant even have proof) so... is this another story I'm making up? Was that my fault too? Everybody seem to think so. So... you go ahead and hate ppl for having "excuses." I have a lot, and they're all true, except this one. I dont have one because I dont know why.



the bridge was my fault. I didn't remember to keep extra room in front of me in case the car in front of me decides to slam on his brakes.

this "less rear more front" is going to throw me off. I dont think I can control a sliding bike when all the braking is up front. I dont know how to handle that. I'm kinda afraid to practice that. and by practice.. I'm afraid of going 40 mph in a parking lot and hard braking. Swerving is easy. I'll swerve any chance I get. I only hard brake when I have no choice.



sure... he can take whatever. like I said, not much damage... it's not like I'm swapping for broken parts.

he did rear end a car while driving my mustang once while driving through a monsoon!... I'm calling it even. broke my front bumper... :*-(

there was so much rain... I don't even want to say it was his fault.

Wet oil gives a rainbow slick

Marybethtimearts-OilOnWetRoad293.jpg

I call BS, as the rain would have made the oil even more visible

Originally Posted by akima

I say this with only love and cuddles ... but... you've got a lot to learn! That's not a bad thing. I was where you were when I first started riding. Not that long ago.

Ok, so brand spanking new tires... that's not a good thing!! Brand new tires are not grippy. It takes a while for them to become grippy. I suspect this guy didn't know about the nature of new tires:

Link to original page on YouTube.
(brand new bike!)

As for the shifting your hips thing: I'm imagining you moving side to side on your seat (like you see moto gp racers doing). I'm sure that will be a great thing to learn further down the line for high speed cornering, but for a new rider (like you and me), it's not necessary for our daily city riding and certainly isn't necessary for slow speed riding. Counter steering is the universally hailed method of quickly turning a bike. I really can't imagine that moving your weight side to side is quicker than counter steering. If you apply a small amount of force to the handle bar it will full-on drop the bike over to the side: it's a great feeling when you get confident with it. Learn how to do it confidently and it'll become the only way you decide to steer the bike (except maybe for very slow speed riding... like 5 mph... at that speed you'd might use your weight and steer the motorcycle like a bicycle)

Glad you figured out what likely caused your accident. Seems kinda odd to me that you went back to that same spot trying to recreate the accident with your own bike

You can use a flick of the hips to swerve, it's not as fast a response as countersteering, but can be done

Originally Posted by jd254

well I wouldn't drop my hips at low speed... I was talking high way to avoid a car that jumps into your lane. I said the counter steering was much more responsive, but I was able to shift from left to right over a larger distance with the hips. I wasn't going anywhere with the counter steering, I was moving quickly... but not far. I'll work on that.

Everybody kept saying I made a noobie mistake.. today would be the third time I drove over it and I didn't see a single thing until looked closely while I was off the bike. This was unavoidable in my book. I was simply at the wrong angle at the wrong speed. I'm not sure if accelerating through the turn would have made it worse or not.

So it was avoidable, less of an angle or more speed would have prevented you from lowsiding, no lowside means no over the top reaction to pick the bike up, means no highside

As for potholes a slight roll on & stand up slightly out of the saddle to ride out the shock