Gauging Interest: Gear Indicators (one with shift light, one without shiftlight)

[SlowBoyRacing]

Hey guys, I've been looking around and it seems like there is a lack of good quality options when it comes to gear indicators for the Ninja 250R's.

If we have enough people interested I can put together a group buy for some PZRacing gear indicators that will work with the Ninja 250R's.

For those who don't know PZRacing, they make the best gear indicators and other electronic equipment for bikes currently on the market. They are based in Italy and all their products are made in Italy.

Their gear indicators are known for being the fastest (gear indication time). Also what sets them apart from others is that they use LCD screens and not LED screens. LED's aren't visible under sun light and are used on gear indicators only for the sole purpose of being cheap to acquire and cutting costs.

There would be two options. GearTronic and GearTronic2 units.

GearTronic features a selecteble 6 color LCD display.

GearTronic2 has a larger 6 color LCD display, and features a 5 stage shift light.

GearTronic



GearTronic2



Comparison




The Ninja 250R's have a cable driven speedo, so in order for these units to work, you will need an inductive speed sensor. Hence why I said I can put together a "kit".

The price would be around $145 sihpped for the GearTronic unit and $170 shipped for the GearTronic2 unit.

Installation would be very straight forward too.

1 wire connects to the speed sensor. 1 wire to the tach signal, 2 for power (positive and negative). The tach signal and +- connection are right behind the cluster.

We'll have to have atleast 7 people to get something like this going.

Does it sound like something that might interest some people on here?

[headshrink]

Those look very nice. But I have to say you got it backward about the LCD vs. LED in sunlight. An LCD will blackout under intense direct sunlight, but the LED will still be visible (depending on it's brightness).

My Daytona H20 gauge is LCD, and although I love it, it blacks out all the time under direct sunlight if it is hot enough (It even blacked out half-way today... and it's winter). I also have the ebay LED gear indicator right next to it. The thing is so bright it can be almost be distracting, mostly at night, even though it dims a wee bit automatically in the dark. As soon as I find some tinted tape material, I'm going to put it over the indicator to dim it a bit. Needless to say, I have never had any problem seeing this particular display.

That being said, I don't want to rain on your parade; those are VERY nice looking gear indicators.... especially the 2nd version with the shift light. However, at around $150, it is pretty hard to argue with a $30 indicator that, if installed properly, never fails. Another major difference which I will not judge, but bring up for others to consider, is the method of determining which gear to display. The ebay version use magnetic switches (ninja250 = mechanical switches) from the shift linkage. The only math it has to do is + and -. It reads 0 (n for ninja250's) when in neutral, so theoretically this would reset it if it gets tripped by accedant. The GearTronic version, and all other retail versions I have seen, do computations by reading speed vs. RPM. This also means they need to be programed. The ebay one doesn't. As mentioned by the OP, since the ninja 250 doesn't have a digital speed sensor, an additional magnetic mounted one must be added. I have NO idea how reliable these units are with or without the speedometer hack. It was a little frustrating to get the ebay sensors just right, as the tolerence was very narrow on mine, but it is also pretty straight-forward.

So again, I'm not knocking these units.... I actually think they look quite nice, but I believe these things should be considered in choosing which indicator you want.

[SlowBoyRacing]

Originally Posted by headshrink

Those look very nice. But I have to say you got it backward about the LCD vs. LED in sunlight. An LCD will blackout under intense direct sunlight, but the LED will still be visible (depending on it's brightness).

My Daytona H20 gauge is LCD, and although I love it, it blacks out all the time under direct sunlight if it is hot enough (It even blacked out half-way today... and it's winter). I also have the ebay LED gear indicator right next to it. The thing is so bright it can be almost be distracting, mostly at night, even though it dims a wee bit automatically in the dark. As soon as I find some tinted tape material, I'm going to put it over the indicator to dim it a bit. Needless to say, I have never had any problem seeing this particular display.

That being said, I don't want to rain on your parade; those are VERY nice looking gear indicators.... especially the 2nd version with the shift light. However, at around $150, it is pretty hard to argue with a $30 indicator that, if installed properly, never fails. Another major difference which I will not judge, but bring up for others to consider, is the method of determining which gear to display. The ebay version use magnetic switches (ninja250 = mechanical switches) from the shift linkage. The only math it has to do is + and -. It reads 0 (n for ninja250's) when in neutral, so theoretically this would reset it if it gets tripped by accedant. The GearTronic version, and all other retail versions I have seen, do computations by reading speed vs. RPM. This also means they need to be programed. The ebay one doesn't. As mentioned by the OP, since the ninja 250 doesn't have a digital speed sensor, an additional magnetic mounted one must be added. I have NO idea how reliable these units are with or without the speedometer hack. It was a little frustrating to get the ebay sensors just right, as the tolerence was very narrow on mine, but it is also pretty straight-forward.

So again, I'm not knocking these units.... I actually think they look quite nice, but I believe these things should be considered in choosing which indicator you want.

Always up for a good debate and nothing wrong with stating oppinion. I've been running these for a long time on my track bikes and never once had it not visible under direct sunlight, while running GiPro's on an older bike of mine, I had it not visible numerous time. I've never played with any of those eBay units, but I bet they aren't visible under direct sunlight either.

A proper LCD will be visible even under direct sunlight. This is why almost all motorcycles who run digital clusters are LCD and not LED.

You get what you pay for. Some people want the best that is out there for their bikes, others who are on a budget have to cope with low end Chinese made products. As the title states, I'd like to see if there is any interest to have this going.

These units use RPM and Speed signals to calculate the gear, always bang on right and very quick. Much cleaner install than a magnet by your foot. Also if those magnets are held by double sided tape, guess what will happen after those double sided tapes see some weather over time?

As stated above, these are the highest quality gear indicators out there and are all made in Italy. Even looking at other expensive units, they are all still made in Asia (example GiPro's are made in Indonesia)

Here is a quick google about led indicators not being seen under sunlight > http://www.riderforums.com/3rd-gen-z...pro-z1000.html

http://www.m109riders.com/forums/sho...=119097&page=2

http://www.z1000forum.com/forum/z100...got-gipro.html

[headshrink]

I was only speaking from direct experience when I was talking about the LED gear indicator and LCD H20 indicator. I don't have a bike with an LCD display, so I won't comment on that. Although, if you have ever left anything with an LCD (calculator, old-school cell phone, etc) on the dashboard of your car in the summer, you'll be familiar with the LCD blackout. I can assure you, because I have one, the ebay indicator is actually too bright in all lighting conditions (IMHO). The ebay, or other DIY units that use magnetic/mechanical switches, display gears instantaneously. Although I don't recall exactly which brand, I remember reading about some lag in a retail version that computes speed and RPM.

As far as a cleaner install, I guess that is in the eye of the beholder. It is either put little switches down by the shifter (there are a couple methods), or put little magnets and a little sensor on the front or rear wheel. Either way you have to add a magnet(s) and switch(s) to your bike.

My intention is not to distract from the beautiful looking gauge you are bringing to our attention, but set the record straight on the LCD/LED black out thing.... and discuss the differences in the various options available while we are at it.

I mean no offense by this question, but do you have a stake in this product?

[SlowBoyRacing]

Originally Posted by headshrink

I mean no offense by this question, but do you have a stake in this product?

I do, and I won't hide it, because I can guarantee you that what ever I have a stake in will be the top of the line quality.

As for the LCD arguement, there are different quality displays. Don't forget many cell phones have LCD displays and they are perfectly visible under direct sunlight (unless you are using a pretty crappy phone).

Look up "sunlight readable LCD displays", they aren't cheap, thats why they aren't used in your run of the mill calculators.

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by SlowBoyRacing

I do, and I won't hide it, because I can guarantee you that what ever I have a stake in will be the top of the line quality.

As for the LCD argument, there are different quality displays. Don't forget many cell phones have LCD displays and they are perfectly visible under direct sunlight (unless you are using a pretty crappy phone).

Look up "sunlight readable LCD displays", they aren't cheap, thats why they aren't used in your run of the mill calculators.

OK, it just wasn't clear in your original post that it was actually you that are selling these. It looked more like the run-of-the-mill group buy. I have no issue with you selling/profiting on items we love to add to our ninjettes, and I hope it continues to go well for you.

As far as the LCD/LED thing, I'll take your word for it on the higher end LCD displays, as I have no direct experience with them.

[Nemesis]

Those look cool. I'd buy if it wasn't so damn expensive.

[SlowBoyRacing]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

Those look cool. I'd buy if it wasn't so damn expensive.

They aren't priced that bad, except the damn inductive speed sensor.

[racegunnr]

would these be compatible with the Koso RX2n gauge with the adapter for the speedo unit?

[SlowBoyRacing]

Originally Posted by racegunnr

would these be compatible with the Koso RX2n gauge with the adapter for the speedo unit?

Yup, it will be compatible, the Koso unit comes with a inductive speed sensor. Check your PM

[Alex]

/thread moved to marketplace

[CZroe]

Headshrink: Think "digital watch" LCD, not backlit dot-matrix LCD. When you need light shining through it to see like with backlit non-reflective LCDs, then any outside light shining on it will drown out visibility, but this is a reflective LCD with a backlight like a digital watch (digital Timex Indiglo, for example). Though still reflective, these types of backlights will silhouette the reflective number segments and make it visible at night without reflecting light.

Even then there are reflective dot-matrix LCDs that work BETTER with more external light, like the Gameboy, Gameboy Pocket, Gameboy Color, Gameboy Advance, and the pre-2004 version of the Gameboy Advance SP (frontlit; still reflective).

[SlowBoyRacing]

Originally Posted by CZroe

Headshrink: Think "digital watch" LCD, not backlit dot-matrix LCD. When you need light shining through it to see like with backlit non-reflective LCDs, then any outside light shining on it will drown out visibility, but this is a reflective LCD with a backlight like a digital watch (digital Timex Indiglo, for example). Though still reflective, these types of backlights will silhouette the reflective number segments and make it visible at night without reflecting light.

Even then there are reflective dot-matrix LCDs that work BETTER with more external light, like the Gameboy, Gameboy Pocket, Gameboy Color, Gameboy Advance, and the pre-2004 version of the Gameboy Advance SP (frontlit; still reflective).

Not all LCD screens are created equally. LCD watches screen technology is from the 80's, and can't compare them with the current LCD technology that is out on the market. If you have a higher end cell phone with a high resolution LCD screen, go out in the sun, and you will clearly see everything on your phone perfectly. These gear indicators are made with the same high quality LCD screens you see on the tablets, phones and other electronics out in the market.

My google phone never lets me down, neither does my PZRacing gear indicator even on 12 o'clock sun on a summer day.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by SlowBoyRacing

Not all LCD screens are created equally. LCD watches screen technology is from the 80's, and can't compare them with the current LCD technology that is out on the market. If you have a higher end cell phone with a high resolution LCD screen, go out in the sun, and you will clearly see everything on your phone perfectly. These gear indicators are made with the same high quality LCD screens you see on the tablets, phones and other electronics out in the market.

My google phone never lets me down, neither does my PZRacing gear indicator even on 12 o'clock sun on a summer day.

Oh, believe me: I understand.

It's a segmented LCD like an '80s digital watch but with a backlight, which is the exact right kind to use for this application. That *IS* the one to compare it to, but that's not a negative. It is still used today because there are applications that require it, like this. Hell, the clock in my brand new car from a month ago is segmented reflective LCD with backlight so it can be viewed in direct sunlight without a hood (most dash LED clocks need a hood to be viewed during the day). It is not color or dot matrix so it is not like a modern PixelQi or e-ink display at all except that it works with and without a backlight.