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Old April 18th, 2020, 02:11 PM   #1
Daks
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Used Engine Advice Needed

So my engine blew its head gasket after 34k miles of various abuse (cooling fan went out at some point and I didn't notice one day, RIP) and I'm looking for a replacement.

Now, I found one that's an '07 with only 218 miles on it according to the donor-bike's odo. The seller has a video of the engine running and it doesn't sound bad (from what you can hear via cheap phone mic in a garage).

Of course my concern is that the engine has been sitting a long while and if it's risky to get it and have it be gummed up. But it seems silly to go for an even older engine with 5k miles on it that may have been sitting a similar amount of time. Once you hit 10k+ I start to wonder what has been done to the engine by then and you're saving maybe $50-100 anyway.

So should I go for this super low mile engine or go for older? Seems incredible to find what must've been a garage queen's engine.
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Old April 18th, 2020, 02:20 PM   #2
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I'd go for it. But I'm also the person who took the first used engine my mechanic found without seeing it so I dunno if my suggestion is worth anything lol
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Old April 18th, 2020, 03:41 PM   #3
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No, it's fine get it.

"Gummed up" is due to process, not just sitting around. Typically caused by:

- overheating. This distills oil, burning off its lighter components and causing it to thicken.

- letting oil-level get too low. This causes what little's left to get overstressed and overheated. Leading to sludge.

- too long between oil-changes. More of concern with dino oil as it breaks down faster and burns from the start. Full-synthetics can go 5k-10k miles without any issues. Honda says 7.5k-miles or 1-yr for synthetic on my '06 CBR600RR whichever is sooner.

- using crappy dino oil. These oils have lower flash-points, lower viscosity stabilizers, lower extreme-pressure/heat additives. Under normal use, they will lose viscosity AND darken and burn and stick to surfaces causing sludge. Under extreme use, they will do it even quicker. Mileage doesn't matter, dino oil burns from mile-1. Just say no and use full-synthetic always.


So... given that low mileage of engine, there's very little chance of sludge and gummed up engine even with using crappiest oil possible. Should still take valve-cover off and inspect for burnt-oil. And check valve-clearances, that'll tell you true mileage of engine. Here's my 35-year old VF500 at recent valve-adjustment. While as starving-student, I did use cheap dino-oil, I wised up and have used only full-synthetic past 30-years. Not a bit of sludge to be seen!


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Old April 18th, 2020, 03:47 PM   #4
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BTW - to see what using crappy oil can really do to engines, check out Audi V8 engines... BMW, Porsche and Audi all specify full-synthetic for their engines. Mobil-1 has been OEM fill for Porsche since '80s. BMW has their own full-synthetic OEM oil.

Don't know what it is about American Audi owners who think they know more than manufacturer of their engines. They go out and get cheapest crappiest Wally-world discount oil @ $1/qt and put that in there along with crappy FRAM filters and expect their engines to last?#!@(%$#!? And then Audi ends up taking the heat and have to recall all these engines due to resultant sludge! WTF people?@#$!
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Old April 18th, 2020, 10:43 PM   #5
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Thanks so much, guys! This was super helpful.

I usually get really vague answers like, "Oh, it's old, make sure it's not gummed up from sitting" with little explanation.

I definitely plan to clean it up and paint it anyway so I'll give it a sold going-over. I'll need to get carbs for it, too, but luckily my uncle is a carb wizard so he can walk me through checking those out.
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Old April 19th, 2020, 07:10 PM   #6
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Ah, that would be carbs that get gummed up due to petrol drying out. Unless you’re buying brand-new carbs from Kawasaki dealer, any carbs you get should go to ducatiman for factory-fresh refurb job.
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Old April 20th, 2020, 07:09 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
No, it's fine get it.

"Gummed up" is due to process, not just sitting around. Typically caused by:

- overheating. This distills oil, burning off its lighter components and causing it to thicken.

- letting oil-level get too low. This causes what little's left to get overstressed and overheated. Leading to sludge.

- too long between oil-changes. More of concern with dino oil as it breaks down faster and burns from the start. Full-synthetics can go 5k-10k miles without any issues. Honda says 7.5k-miles or 1-yr for synthetic on my '06 CBR600RR whichever is sooner.

- using crappy dino oil. These oils have lower flash-points, lower viscosity stabilizers, lower extreme-pressure/heat additives. Under normal use, they will lose viscosity AND darken and burn and stick to surfaces causing sludge. Under extreme use, they will do it even quicker. Mileage doesn't matter, dino oil burns from mile-1. Just say no and use full-synthetic always.


(SNIP)
^ Thanks Danno!

My thoughts on the subject - exactly!

I work on a lot of engine parts, and see the insides of covers, pans, etc, and can tell you that running cheap conventional oil will lead to deposits. Burned deposits in the hot areas and sludge deposits in the cold areas.

I run synthetic oil in everything, and change it at reasonable intervals. My engines look just like Danno's inside.

I just don't get the thinking behind owning a, sometimes expensive, vehicle and using the cheapest oil you can get for as long as you can. Especially with a cycle engine. The overall quantity of oil is lower and the stress on the oil is higher.

If you don't want to go full-on cycle synthetic, just use Rotella T6 and you're good.
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Old April 20th, 2020, 07:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
BTW - to see what using crappy oil can really do to engines, check out Audi V8 engines... BMW, Porsche and Audi all specify full-synthetic for their engines. Mobil-1 has been OEM fill for Porsche since '80s. BMW has their own full-synthetic OEM oil.

Don't know what it is about American Audi owners who think they know more than manufacturer of their engines. They go out and get cheapest crappiest Wally-world discount oil @ $1/qt and put that in there along with crappy FRAM filters and expect their engines to last?#!@(%$#!? And then Audi ends up taking the heat and have to recall all these engines due to resultant sludge! WTF people?@#$!

This is true. I put 287k on my S4 with no issues and used only Mobil 1. Changed every 11-12k or before track days. People cheaped out because it takes 6 to 7 quarts with a good filter, and 9 with an aftermarket oil cooler.
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Old April 26th, 2020, 02:12 PM   #9
Daks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Ah, that would be carbs that get gummed up due to petrol drying out. Unless you’re buying brand-new carbs from Kawasaki dealer, any carbs you get should go to ducatiman for factory-fresh refurb job.
My uncle is actually a carbs wizard so I'm super lucky there! He frankensteins all sorts of bikes so he's helping me with this whole project.
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Old April 26th, 2020, 02:14 PM   #10
Daks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
^ Thanks Danno!

My thoughts on the subject - exactly!

I work on a lot of engine parts, and see the insides of covers, pans, etc, and can tell you that running cheap conventional oil will lead to deposits. Burned deposits in the hot areas and sludge deposits in the cold areas.

I run synthetic oil in everything, and change it at reasonable intervals. My engines look just like Danno's inside.

I just don't get the thinking behind owning a, sometimes expensive, vehicle and using the cheapest oil you can get for as long as you can. Especially with a cycle engine. The overall quantity of oil is lower and the stress on the oil is higher.

If you don't want to go full-on cycle synthetic, just use Rotella T6 and you're good.
I rolled the Rotella T6 in my 250 until it blew its top at 33k. But that was no fault of the oil. Gonna make sure the cooling fan is running for this engine...
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