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Old August 29th, 2013, 11:26 AM   #1
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Emergency Braking Practice





Seriously though. Do it! I just got my bike insured again today so I thought I'd go out for a quick ride around the nearby country lanes. Having not practiced emergency braking much recently, I thought I'd get some in on the quiet roads. I did. I sucked! 5 minutes later one of THESE pulled out in front of me:




I applied my poor emergency braking technique as best as I poorly could and stopped an inch away from that French bumper! Too close for comfort.

I'm definitely going to get some steel braided brake lines installed soon and practice my braking more.
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Old August 29th, 2013, 11:29 AM   #2
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AWWWW what a cute wolf. Look at those eyes, so pretty. Oh there's a message here.

I really need to work out a schedule so I go out once a week or so and just run through all the little drills to improve handling on the bike. Like emergency braking or sharp swerves.
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Old August 29th, 2013, 12:07 PM   #3
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I'd go out for a quick ride around the nearby country lanes. Having not practiced emergency braking much recently, I thought I'd get some in on the quiet roads. I did. I sucked! 5 minutes later one of THESE pulled out in front of me:
Glad you made it out safely!

It's funny how things like that work out. The last time I practiced emergency braking an hour later I needed it when traffic decided it'd be a good idea to go from 70MPH to 10MPH for no apparent reason on the freeway.
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Old August 29th, 2013, 12:14 PM   #4
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Good reminder.
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Old August 29th, 2013, 12:20 PM   #5
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glad to see this is in general, and not "oops i crashed" forum. be careful out there
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Old August 29th, 2013, 12:55 PM   #6
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be careful out there
Last I read, your wheels got blown under a truck while lane splitting on a corner.

You be careful too!
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Old August 29th, 2013, 01:06 PM   #7
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Last I read, your wheels got blown under a truck while lane splitting on a corner.
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Old August 29th, 2013, 01:14 PM   #8
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..........I applied my poor emergency braking technique as best as I poorly could and stopped an inch away from that French bumper! Too close for comfort........
Old pilots say, "Any landing you walk away from is a good landing."

Paraphrasing that, I would say that any evasive maneuver you ride away from is a well executed maneuver.

Well done, Akima; riding alert always puts things on your favor, .......with or without steel brake lines.

1) Butt as aft as possible, knees clamping the tank hard, torso and arms relaxed, head up, eyes looking far away, balance sense in red alert.

2) Apply rear brake hard to initiate a quick weight transfer while gently squeezing the front lever, ..........feel the g-force yet?..........pull that front lever hard (but ready for a quick release and re-application if the front tire skids and you lose steering) while releasing pressure on rear lever (partially or fully (my personal preference)).

3) Slowdown as you keep your posture, vision and balance (the rear may want to fishtail some) and while you downshift (optional but much recommended), .....feel that front suspension hitting the tops?

Practice at least 20 minutes each week !!!
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Old August 29th, 2013, 01:35 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by alex.s View Post
wat
Someone in here had the wind hit them while they were lane splitting on a corner. While at a lean it blew them partially under the truck on the outside of the turn. Thought it was you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motofool View Post
Old pilots say, "Any landing you walk away from is a good landing."

Paraphrasing that, I would say that any evasive maneuver you ride away from is a well executed maneuver.

Well done, Akima; riding alert always puts things on your favor, .......with or without steel brake lines.

1) Butt as aft as possible, knees clamping the tank hard, torso and arms relaxed, head up, eyes looking far away, balance sense in red alert.

2) Apply rear brake hard to initiate a quick weight transfer while gently squeezing the front lever, ..........feel the g-force yet?..........pull that front lever hard (but ready for a quick release and re-application if the front tire skids and you lose steering) while releasing pressure on rear lever (partially or fully (my personal preference)).

3) Slowdown as you keep your posture, vision and balance (the rear may want to fishtail some) and while you downshift (optional but much recommended), .....feel that front suspension hitting the tops?

Practice at least 20 minutes each week !!!
Thanks!

I already employ that entire technique! I've read up on the best way to do it. Where I've fallen short is actually practising it enough that it becomes muscle memory instead of just being a conscious theory (which wont serve me well in the moment). It's nice to see it concisely written like that though!

The main thing I got right during my incident today (which I have trained into myself through practice) was that I progressively applied the front brake rather than just snapped it on. I'm sure I must have had an "oh sh*t!" expression plastered across my face

You said in point 1 "eyes looking far away"... and you bolded it. That's something I haven't thought about doing. What's the reasoning? I'm guessing to avoid target fixation... so I don't hyper focus on the thing I am trying to avoid?
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Old August 29th, 2013, 01:40 PM   #10
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Yea, to avoid fixating but I wouldn't only tell you to look far away. Can I challenge you to think of what you should be looking at or.... maybe what you should be doing with your eyes?
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Old August 29th, 2013, 01:51 PM   #11
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Yea, to avoid fixating but I wouldn't only tell you to look far away. Can I challenge you to think of what you should be looking at or.... maybe what you should be doing with your eyes?
Presumably I should be looking for an escape route. I guess as well, I should not look at the object I am on path to hit, but if braking is the only option then I should be looking before the object. I don't want to stop in the object I want to stop before it.
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Old August 29th, 2013, 01:52 PM   #12
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Old August 29th, 2013, 01:55 PM   #13
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Old August 29th, 2013, 02:01 PM   #14
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Can I challenge you to think of what you should be looking at or.... maybe what you should be doing with your eyes?
No yoda questions!
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Old August 29th, 2013, 02:07 PM   #15
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No yoda questions!
Practice braking, you must. But first... a test of knowledge you must display! For ignorance leads to bad technique, bad technique leads to poor bike control and poor bike control leads to... .... suffering!
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Old August 29th, 2013, 02:10 PM   #16
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oh yeah. i guess i have done that a few times.

as far as braking technique, i have never had any luck being in the center of the bike when braking. every time, without fail, it winds up in me pushing down on the bars to keep from going forward which when braking hard means you are pushing out your front tire and putting in all kinds of crap input that you don't want into the bars which start slides or turn small slides into crashes.

these days what i do, is basically never ride centered on the bike, i always ride on one side of the bike or the other. its good for turning sure, but its better for braking. instead of having to use my upper body for support, the "in"-side of my torso rests on the tank while my outside leg braces the peg so that the inside of my thigh is pressed against the very back of the gas tank, which when combined with the outside leg pushing back keeps you from sliding forward and gives you lots of freedom with the controls up top. using the other peg push forward helps a lot too. i think someone told me this is called pivot steering. not sure why anyone would call it that.

but anyway about the actual braking part... theres 3 zones of braking in my mind. the "up" zone, which is about the same as rear brake... not much braking can be done, go too fast here and it just locks... really not much going on here. the "mid" zone, which happens after the front of the bike compresses. this second zone gets you most of your braking but you can still go for more this is where most people stop... doing things too quickly in this zone can send the rear tire in the air pretty easily. and then the "down" zone, which is really sketchy to get to and really wont happen without good, hot tires on clean dry asphalt. trying to brake this hard with **** suspension or **** tires or poor conditions results in a nice front end slide that sends you into the dirt... but anyway.... if you jump steps you slide. so take it one zone at a time... bite it to get it into zone 1, ease on smoothly to get a nice mid-stroke, then once its made it down far enough you can SLOWLY step into full brakes. depending on pads, this might not really be very much (stock non-sintered pads) but with good pads this will be pretty extreme braking... think close to 2 Gs.

granted, when you have lots of practice, getting that far only takes about 1 or two seconds. smooth is the key. you go smooth, you can brake like you have a parachute. do it wrong, and it feels sketchy as **** and you wind up sliding all around
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Old August 29th, 2013, 02:18 PM   #17
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Old August 29th, 2013, 02:21 PM   #18
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@alex.s: that all sounded very zen. Lots for me to think about. Thanks. I'm guessing in zone 2, you release the rear brake as you apply the really heavy front braking?
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Old August 29th, 2013, 02:22 PM   #19
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Old August 29th, 2013, 02:37 PM   #20
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@akima and @csmith12 hahahah

@alex.s 2Gs can even motogp bikes brake that hard?
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Old August 29th, 2013, 02:40 PM   #21
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Sure, but why? Point and shoot.... zero fuks given. That pic is insane.
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Old August 29th, 2013, 02:57 PM   #22
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Seriously though. Do it! I just got my bike insured again today so I thought I'd go out for a quick ride around the nearby country lanes. Having not practiced emergency braking much recently, I thought I'd get some in on the quiet roads. I did. I sucked! 5 minutes later one of THESE pulled out in front of me:


I applied my poor emergency braking technique as best as I poorly could and stopped an inch away from that French bumper! Too close for comfort.

I'm definitely going to get some steel braided brake lines installed soon and practice my braking more.
http://www.helperformance.com/hel-br...2008-2010.html
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Old August 29th, 2013, 03:05 PM   #23
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just in case you were wondering, 2Gs lateral with no aero means you are flying off the side of the road

also, i use no rear brake if i will be going past the first zone.
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Old August 29th, 2013, 05:24 PM   #24
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.........Thanks!
............You said in point 1 "eyes looking far away"... and you bolded it. That's something I haven't thought about doing. What's the reasoning? I'm guessing to avoid target fixation... so I don't hyper focus on the thing I am trying to avoid?
You are welcome, Akima

There is a natural tendency to look close in front of the wheel during parking lot practices.
However, that is not good for creating the habit of looking for a escape path and much less for keeping the balance when the bike becomes unstable under really hard braking.

Keeping your eyes on the horizon and level gives your internal ears a solid point of reference for pitch, for yaw and for lateral roll of the machine under you.

I have collected for you and other practitioners some very useful articles and some previous threads about emergency braking:

Braking Tips

Some old but good studies on braking

Brake progressively

Keep your controls covered while riding on the street

Stopping distance calculator

During an emergency situation, will you steer in the right direction?

Bike Crash Evasion and Mitigation


Keeping a log book where the stopping distances are recorded will show the real progress.
Once the contact patch is consistently pushed to the limit (some chattering may happens), the practice for quick release following a lock-up and brief skid of the front tire can follow.

And that is just basic braking on a straight line and dry pavement.
After some degree of proficiency is achieved, more real world braking alternatives should be practiced: while turning, on wet surface, on sand, quick acceleration before coming to a full stop, braking followed by swerving, etc.

The skill is not needed for track-days and racing, but for street riding, ........nobody should be doing that before at least mastering emergency braking.

You saved the day simply because you had put some effort on improving your braking skill above MSF's basic training..........that is what my experience tells me.
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Old August 29th, 2013, 07:22 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motofool View Post
You are welcome, Akima

There is a natural tendency to look close in front of the wheel during parking lot practices.
However, that is not good for creating the habit of looking for a escape path and much less for keeping the balance when the bike becomes unstable under really hard braking.

Keeping your eyes on the horizon and level gives your internal ears a solid point of reference for pitch, for yaw and for lateral roll of the machine under you.

I have collected for you and other practitioners some very useful articles and some previous threads about emergency braking:

Braking Tips

Some old but good studies on braking

Brake progressively

Keep your controls covered while riding on the street

Stopping distance calculator

During an emergency situation, will you steer in the right direction?

Bike Crash Evasion and Mitigation


Keeping a log book where the stopping distances are recorded will show the real progress.
Once the contact patch is consistently pushed to the limit (some chattering may happens), the practice for quick release following a lock-up and brief skid of the front tire can follow.

And that is just basic braking on a straight line and dry pavement.
After some degree of proficiency is achieved, more real world braking alternatives should be practiced: while turning, on wet surface, on sand, quick acceleration before coming to a full stop, braking followed by swerving, etc.

The skill is not needed for track-days and racing, but for street riding, ........nobody should be doing that before at least mastering emergency braking.

You saved the day simply because you had put some effort on improving your braking skill above MSF's basic training..........that is what my experience tells me.
This is awesome, thanks for putting this together for us! When I ride solo and I'm just buzzing around town I try to find an empty lot to practice my emergency stops. I haven't had to put it to use yet but I hope when the time comes my hard work pays off. Ride safe everyone
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Old August 29th, 2013, 11:39 PM   #26
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@Whiskey: you recommend those do you?

@Motofool: thanks! Will read/re-read all of that.

@odn3: if you ride on the street anywhere with a population consisting of more than just yourself then you will experience someone pulling out in front of you. Your emergency braking practice is essential to your survival. Also: remember stopping distances. No point knowing how to brake perfectly if you're riding so fast that it's physically impossible to stop in time. In a sense - the better you are at braking, the faster you can safely ride!
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Old August 30th, 2013, 02:51 PM   #27
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Hi Akima,

I have been thinking about installing some braided lines also. Shout if you want to get together for an "install party", I believe I have most of the necessary tools from doing this on my car.

Glad to hear you avoided the Citroën :-)

Cheers, Pete
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Old September 2nd, 2013, 05:35 PM   #28
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@Whiskey: you recommend those do you?

@Motofool: thanks! Will read/re-read all of that.

@odn3: if you ride on the street anywhere with a population consisting of more than just yourself then you will experience someone pulling out in front of you. Your emergency braking practice is essential to your survival. Also: remember stopping distances. No point knowing how to brake perfectly if you're riding so fast that it's physically impossible to stop in time. In a sense - the better you are at braking, the faster you can safely ride!
Thought I'd replied to this, but can't see it.

Yeah I fitted the front line about 3 1/2 years ago, very noticeable difference in the feel at the lever, much more precise/less sqiudgy.

HEL have a pretty good reputation, the lads on TT superbikes trust them to make the brakes work, & I can't think of a much more demanding application

(just don't do what I did, ordered them on monday, threw the bike down the road tuesday, & they arrived thursday... ideal timing)
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Old September 2nd, 2013, 05:44 PM   #29
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Good reminder. Coming off of MSF I realize how important it is.
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Old September 3rd, 2013, 12:23 AM   #30
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Ok, thanks @Whiskey. I'm going to order a line for my front brake.
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