paying for a bike

[Blackwidow]

Originally Posted by kkim

first rule of vehicle shopping... never fall in love with only one color. Look at options that would be acceptable. sigh.. when you do fall in love with a certain color/model, NEVER let the salesperson know that. You'll never get a discount.

I echo looking at a used bike. The sad fact is, over 50% of new riders drop their bikes in the first 6 months of ownership. Buy a used bike, learn to ride/crash as newbie's will and then later, sell the bike and purchase a brand new bike when your skills tell you your dropping/newbie days are behind you. Learn to ride first.

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=25913&

No one has mentioned it here, but have you taken the MSF course? How about gear... do you have any? Expect to invest roughly 500-1000 in good/decent safety equipment. More, if you're like the majority of females on this site who seem to be gear/fashion conscious.

to your first point, Of course the dealer will not know i love the bike, thats pretty much like handing over my check book with my signature on it asking him to fill out the rest.

to your second point, i have thought and thought about it. and really, its my only reason that i'm still looking at the older used models. You have a great point and it makes perfect sense.

and finally to your 3rd point....thank you for bringing up SAFETY! lol yes, i have looked at gear, i need some good boots and a jacket, it will cost me around 500 bucks, i have the helmet so i'm ok there. I have really considered everything i'm going to have to spend on this habit. Not to mention the fact that i have to lower the bike, which will cost me extra, and maybe even shave the seat. GRRRR....

[revstriker]

Originally Posted by Alex

For used bike purchases from individuals, sure. But with dealers, not necessarily as true with bikes as it is with car dealerss. A surprising portion of the profit a motorcycle dealer makes is from the finance contracts. They would rather have you walk out the door with a bike on the Kawi card than in cash. They make more money that way, even right up front.

You could be correct. I've always bought my bikes with cash, so I have nothing to compare it to. But I know that I got a great deal on the bike I have now.

It used to be that commission was paid quicker on cash sales. Not sure if this is still true.

[revstriker]

Originally Posted by Blackwidow

and finally to your 3rd point....thank you for bringing up SAFETY! lol yes, i have looked at gear, i need some good boots and a jacket, it will cost me around 500 bucks, i have the helmet so i'm ok there.

If you shop around, $500 can go pretty far. You can pick up a very decent jacket for well less than $200. As for boots, there are plenty of options here as well. While motorcycle specific boots can be very safe, a good, well constructed pair of hiking boots or work boots can work as well. I know you said you have a helmet already (full face I hope), but there are some good quality helmets out there at a good price as well. And just as safe as some of the more expensive ones. The most important part on a helmet though is making sure it fits your head correctly.

And don't forget about gloves...

[FrugalNinja250]

http://www.newenough.com and http://www.bikebandit.com are a couple of places to shop for discounted gear. My first leather jacket with armor (CE) cost $99 at the former, as well as some really good TGP boots for, IIRC, around $250.

Another bonus to buying used bikes with really low miles is that they often come with gear; my blue '06 came with a nice mesh jacket and virtually unused helmet that fit me, and the red '06 came with a nice set of Alpinestars gloves and a folding motorcycle loading ramp.

I dropped the blue bike twice in the first three months, no problem since the PO had already had several low-speed drops by the time they got to the 2,042 miles it had when they sold it to me. After I got the crashes out of the way I fixed the bike up so it looks very nice (to me, anyway).

As a new rider I would highly advise getting a used but low mile bike and getting a year on it before looking for that dream bike. That year gets you past the highest crash risk bracket, and after a year the bike will still have a lot of residual value because it'll still be relatively low miles. And by then you can probably find that dream bike (red and black, was it?) as a year old model with maybe a couple thousand miles on it for several thousand bucks less. That's money in the bank for gear, accessories, etc.

Another consideration, at least here in Texas, is that sales tax is only computed on the price after the trade-in is deducted. So, if I traded in a bike with a value of $2,500 it would save me $156.25 in sales tax.

[revstriker]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

http://www.newenough.com and http://www.bikebandit.com are a couple of places to shop for discounted gear. My first leather jacket with armor (CE) cost $99 at the former, as well as some really good TGP boots for, IIRC, around $250.

Another bonus to buying used bikes with really low miles is that they often come with gear; my blue '06 came with a nice mesh jacket and virtually unused helmet that fit me, and the red '06 came with a nice set of Alpinestars gloves and a folding motorcycle loading ramp.

I dropped the blue bike twice in the first three months, no problem since the PO had already had several low-speed drops by the time they got to the 2,042 miles it had when they sold it to me. After I got the crashes out of the way I fixed the bike up so it looks very nice (to me, anyway).

As a new rider I would highly advise getting a used but low mile bike and getting a year on it before looking for that dream bike. That year gets you past the highest crash risk bracket, and after a year the bike will still have a lot of residual value because it'll still be relatively low miles. And by then you can probably find that dream bike (red and black, was it?) as a year old model with maybe a couple thousand miles on it for several thousand bucks less. That's money in the bank for gear, accessories, etc.

Another consideration, at least here in Texas, is that sales tax is only computed on the price after the trade-in is deducted. So, if I traded in a bike with a value of $2,500 it would save me $156.25 in sales tax.

+1 on newenough. I've ordered quite a bit from them. They are great! Because they're in Texas, I normally get my order within two days. The only bad thing for me is that I also get hit with Texas sales tax, but if you're outside of Texas you won't.

another good site for gear is leatherup.com.

[backinthesaddleagain]

Someone above mentioned when trading in you subtract trade in value from new bile price and pay sales tax on the difference. That's good. In RI it works tgat way for cars but not bikes. What a ripoff, paid sales tax when I bought the ninja, got 2600 for trade but paid tax on 9000 (price of cbr).
BTW just got a nice pair of Texsport gloves for under $50. Leather, gauntlet, hard knuckles, some kevlar, and 2 wrist straps. Supposedly they are only sold at dealers.
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[Cuongism]

Unfortunately, I also would recommend you buying used since it's your first bike. You can't compare msrp's vs used prices. It might say $4199 msrp by it'll be over $5k OTD because of fees etc. If you have cash and buy used, you can get 08-10 bikes for $2500-$3500. You can easily find a bike mechanic and pay them around $100 to go and take a look at the bike for you. So you easily save $1500-2500 going the used route.
Also, you also had a thread about your height so there's a chance you will have a low speed drop (grab too much front brake and you may not be strong enough to hold it up arms alone). You will feel less guilty dropping a used bike vs new.
Lastly since it hasn't been brought up yet, new bikes require break in. Not sure which break-in route you go with, but the Kawi method is to not rev it over 4-5k for the first 600 miles. As a new rider, it may be hard to be smooth on the throttle and not over-rev. This also means you won't be able go over 35 mph which is 6th gear 5k rpm.
If you go with the new bike route, get them to throw in the 600 mile service then. This is normally a couple hundred dollars.
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[adri99an]

I'd go used for sure especially since this is your first bike that will probably get thrashed a bit. As for CA$h in hand- Cuong is right as far as pricing used 08 and 09s-Craigs list has a ton of them and people are dying to sell em.

I remember going into Bert's with $4000 in my pocket....I wanted to purchase a new 09 250....the sticker said 4199---they wouldn't even take my lousy $$ because they know they can get the 4199 + fees and all the b.s. they add to it....plus if one finances the bike---they make more $$....I walked out of there with my 4 grand and bought my 08 250 for $3800 with 2300 miles on it....that was Feb of 08....

I used to live in So. Pas a long time ago--love that lil' city.....I remember taking a few friends to the Rose Bowl to teach them how to ride...that was about 10 years ago when I rode 600s--hahhaa

[Cuongism]

I forgot to mention, if you're in love with the color, there will still be used 2010 special editions on sale on craiglist. The 2010's have been on the market for awhile. In my opinion tho, the bike's color is really secondary as long as your gear matches. If it's just red and black you like, buy a used black bike and check out tapeworks.com. Use the money you save for gear and then get some red graphics off that site and make the bike your own. I haven't tried it myself yet so I can't vouch for that site, but the pics look cool. Maybe another member can chime in about custom graphics.
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[gophurr]

Before going to purchase a bike, know the cost of all the fees before you step foot into the dealership. Dealerships will jack up the price on for their fees than they will their bike. Don't forget to mention the Kawasaki rebate, and bring a printed copy of it (they will try to deny it). Do some research, ask some friends who have purchased brand new bikes within the past year or two. But it is crucial to find out how much the fees and tax should be. When I purchased my Ninja 250r, the dealership tried to charge me $800+ for delivery and build fees, but I knew for a fact that it cost them less than $250, because my brother had recently purchased a bike from them. So I called the dealership out about it, and they dropped the fees down for me. I was able to get a 2009 SE for a little under $4500 OTD, they started with $6880 OTD. There is always room to haggle, as the buyer you have the upper hand. Whatever you do, you should always go in with a price of what the most you are willing to spend is, and do not past that price at any cost. So do your research figure out all the cost and fees even before you go. Dealerships want to earn your business not lose it. If they don't give you the price you want, then WALK OUT! Tell them you are going to walk out, that you do not need to buy a bike from them. If you walk out, a salesman just wasted a good 1+ hour of his time, talking to someone in which the made no money off of, they don't want that.

But remember, you have the upper hand. Make them sell you the bike for the price you want, don't buy the bike for the price they want. The best of luck to you.

[LuxMundi]

This is kind of dirty and I don't recommend it, but if you are trying to squeeze every penny out of a deal........ have a friend go and haggle with the dealership first, get their best deal possible, and then walk before signing. You can actually do this more than once. Each "transaction," you will get a better feel for how low they will actually go. If the best OTD for your friend is $4,500, try to get $4,400 for yourself.

This is kind of silly on a sub$5000 item, but it is done alot in real estate.

gophurr has it dead on: people would be shocked at the wide range dealers sell the same bike/car for. I bought mine used, after looking at a guys ninjette at MSF. My bike had been purchased OTD for over $1000 less than my MSF friend's. She told me that she haggled the guys to death, and it paid off for her.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by kkim

first rule of vehicle shopping... never fall in love with only one color.

Unless it's blue.

[Soujyu]

Originally Posted by LuxMundi

This is kind of dirty and I don't recommend it, but if you are trying to squeeze every penny out of a deal........

You know that you have to do that for a lot of the dealerships.

[GeneJunkie]

Originally Posted by gophurr

Before going to purchase a bike, know the cost of all the fees before you step foot into the dealership. Dealerships will jack up the price on for their fees than they will their bike. Don't forget to mention the Kawasaki rebate, and bring a printed copy of it (they will try to deny it). Do some research, ask some friends who have purchased brand new bikes within the past year or two. But it is crucial to find out how much the fees and tax should be. When I purchased my Ninja 250r, the dealership tried to charge me $800+ for delivery and build fees, but I knew for a fact that it cost them less than $250, because my brother had recently purchased a bike from them. So I called the dealership out about it, and they dropped the fees down for me. I was able to get a 2009 SE for a little under $4500 OTD, they started with $6880 OTD. There is always room to haggle, as the buyer you have the upper hand. Whatever you do, you should always go in with a price of what the most you are willing to spend is, and do not past that price at any cost. So do your research figure out all the cost and fees even before you go. Dealerships want to earn your business not lose it. If they don't give you the price you want, then WALK OUT! Tell them you are going to walk out, that you do not need to buy a bike from them. If you walk out, a salesman just wasted a good 1+ hour of his time, talking to someone in which the made no money off of, they don't want that.

But remember, you have the upper hand. Make them sell you the bike for the price you want, don't buy the bike for the price they want. The best of luck to you.

+1 to all of that

My fiance works for a dealership and one trick that always seems to get them to lower their price is matching the price from another dealership. Just be careful there are a lot of tricks they try to pull to make as much money as possible. Calculating tax on title and registration, forgetting rebates, etc etc. Even buying my bike one of the sales guys conveniently "forgot" the Kawi rebate when we were figuring out prices. Granted he wasn't the sales manager so it didn't matter but the fact that a co-worker would pull that crap shows how spineless they are.

[Blackwidow]

you all make a good point about buying used vrs new. I think ya'll are right, as a new rider its going to suck dropping a new bike, no matter how much i will try not to. I'll look into used 250's, never know, i might just be able to get the used 2010 black and red one for much less. thanks for your inputs!

[backinthesaddleagain]

Great pics b/f should buy you the bike and gear!! Seriously best of luck finding the bike you want at a good price.

[gideonpoe]

I just wanted to add my personal experience to help you out. I was looking at new bikes cause I really liked the green limited edition. Although with a little patience and Craigslist, I found my bike. It's a 2009 250R, its black, I looked at the bike twice before I made a decision. The guy was asking 3000 for it but I got him down to 2800, amazing how showing someone a little green helps your cause. Anyways the bike had 5000 miles on it, 2 and a half years left on the ext. warranty, a brand new helmet, gloves, 3 piece saddle bags and an olympia 3 season jacket. There is literally no scratches on my bike what so ever and he gave me all the service records from the dealer. I think that was a sweet deal 2800 for all that, and it took me 180 to get the title tax tag inspection and insurance all done. So I was still barely under the 3000 that I took a personal loan for. Just thought you'd like to see someones experience on buying a used bike, btw I've rode the **** out of it and no problems what so ever.

[tinng321]

I'm a bargain shopper.
I would never buy a bike new.
Why buy new if I can find a great deal and save $$$.
Why not let the first guy eat up the depreciation and dealer fees.
Plus, less tax to pay on pre-owned bikes (if you know what I mean).
Some don't have the cash in hand so they have to finance a bike.
Becareful though.
I know honda and suzuki have fix rates.
I believe 1.9% financing for 36 months at honda. I think suzuki is the same, I'm not sure though.
Kawi is a little different. They offer 4.9% for the first 24 months then jump up to 15.9% - 23.9% (don't quote me on the figures) depending on your credit. For the first 24 month if you make a late payment your rate will jump to a default rate which is 15.9-23.9%.
Honda and suzuki work much like a car finance.
Kawi works like a credit. In fact, it's a credit card loan.

[gideonpoe]

Yeah, I know not everyone has cash in hand, neither did I in fact. But if your credit is good enough I personally think a personal loan is better. Thats what I got, then I just cashed the check they gave me and then I had cash in hand. Not to mention, this way the bike gets in my name right then so if something happened and I couldn't pay I could sell something else to pay it back and they wouldn't repo my bike. just my suggestion.

[revstriker]

Originally Posted by tinng321

Becareful though.
I know honda and suzuki have fix rates.
I believe 1.9% financing for 36 months at honda. I think suzuki is the same, I'm not sure though.
Kawi is a little different. They offer 4.9% for the first 24 months then jump up to 15.9% - 23.9% (don't quote me on the figures) depending on your credit. For the first 24 month if you make a late payment your rate will jump to a default rate which is 15.9-23.9%.
Honda and suzuki work much like a car finance.
Kawi works like a credit. In fact, it's a credit card loan.

Should always be careful, and try to get the best deal you can. But the rate on a 36 month loan for a few thousand dollars is not going to make a huge difference. For example, the difference in monthly payment between 1.9% and 15.9% on a 36 month loan for $3,000 is less than $20 a month. Not saying that one should settle for a 15.9% loan (using that as an example), but it's probably not worth sweating the difference between 4% and 6%.