Deadly Isle of Man

[CC Cowboy]

Too many riders dead, too many riders hurt.

Remember, riding on the street is deadly!

[Triple Jim]

I'm amazed that that race continues to be a major event with all the deaths that it causes. I know there's history and everything, but someone needs to replicate the course somewhere like out in a desert, where you don't automatically die if you miss a turn.

[Topaz]

I think it's part of the game. It happens in many other sports as well. You win, you're part of history, you miss a turn, you're dead. All or nothing.

Everyone measures the risk willing to take.

Last week, a rock climber reached the summit of El Capitan, in Yosemite in solo climbing. That is, no rope. 3000 feet of vertical ascent. He did it, so he's history now. Hadn't he done, then it would have been bad news.

As the saying goes, 'If you're looking for the maximum thrill, you have to be willing to pay the maximum price.'

[JohnnyBravo]

I heard it's been pretty tough so far... Hope senior day is a good one

[allanoue]

25% of the people who try to climb Mt Everest die. Many are still there.

[JohnnyBravo]

Originally Posted by allanoue

25% of the people who try to climb Mt Everest die. Many are still there.

I heard they don't go get the bodies usually... Just leave em up there

[Alex]

A group of friends went to the Isle of Man this year; they are posting some incredible pics/videos throughout the week.

This is how close I'm standing to the TT course, on top of a 3' hedge berm.

[dcj13]

IOMTT is the ultimate in motor vehicle racing!

[mnoob]

Originally Posted by allanoue

25% of the people who try to climb Mt Everest die. Many are still there.

I don't want to be an ass, but do you have a citation for this? My understanding is that Everest has become a tourist destination that people with no proper experience attempt. The last two years have been a bit different due to weather, but there have been reports of people physically incapable of doing it on their own relying on Sherpas to bring them to the top. It is not hard to find photos of the logjam on the Hillary Step. Climbers call the typical approach the "yak route." As you can see, I have a thing about this, and am ranting now. I actually believe that there should be places where people risk it all. I think, for instance, that unprepared people who saunter up on Rainier, or walk down into the Grand Canyon like it's a day at the park, should risk death. I don't agree that people have a right to be safe whatever they do or wherever they go, or that they should be prevented from risking their lives. The TT is a bit different, since it is not a natural thing but an invented one, but I think everyone who rides it knows what the deal is.

Clearly, you may and apparently do disagree, and I doubt we can settle this in an online discussion: for instance, I'm not going to look at this thread again, but if I were sitting in a bar with you I'd go on for hours. In this context, I just want to present a different way of looking at the issue.

All the best, and keep the rubber side down.

[JohnnyBravo]

Seems like way too much of what I thought was true came from folks that made up **** to quiet me down :/

[MLR]

Let's not promote a nanny state, we as adults can chose how much risk we accept, if you weight it up and you don't find the risk vs reward worth it, don't do it.

Me I would love to ride it, albeit at much lower speeds to match my poor skill set.

To the people who go 10/10th's, I admire your balls and wish you all the best.

To the people who want to tell me what I can do and how much risk they think is acceptable for me, EAD.

[Mohawk]

The TT & other road races are dangerous if you crash, but less dangerous than a normal days road riding ! There are no junctions, no vehicles coming the other way, no mobile phones, no blind or inattentive drivers ! Who amongst us as we are all motorcyclists, does not give it some beans when we come across a piece of road we no well, knowing there are no entrances or turnings on the next mile or two, & just happen to have arrived at a low convergence period, where we have the road to ourselves ?

The TT is just that moment but by design. They are all willing volunteers, the Japanese had those for Kamikaze and that way a one way ticket ! So human nature allows for this, it's different to an astronaut getting on a rocket, as the rider has control of most of the elements. Some people are quick riders, some are much quicker than others & then there are racers. Your personal level of acceptable risk may be less than someone else.

I laugh when many people discuss risky things as dangerous, they often confuse danger & risk & generally are NOT risk takers. Danger is something you expose yourself to & have little or no control over. Like walking out alone at night in the African plains when you know there are multiple lion prides in your path. Risk is a measure of calculable chance of some harm coming to you. The low risk H&S guys would have you add slips trips & falls to a risk assessment, but we are all bipeds, that is part of our existence NOT a risk. People often worry about flying due to the terrorist risk, whilst ignoring the fact that pilot & engineering errors or design shortcomings have crashed & killed many more times the number of people than all the so called terrorist events put together, but they hop on the plane for business or holiday without a second thought.

In the U.K. 2015 road deaths were 1700+ Which is about 4.5 people per day. Seriously injured was 22000+ Which is 60 a day. So if a rider was NOT riding in the TT he could be one of the 65 people killed or seriously injured EVERY DAY in the UK. I don't see anyone calling to ban driving for everyone. I'd rather die doing something I enjoy & assessed the risks for & made my choice. Than be crushed by a blind old person pulling out of a junction in front of me !

YMMV

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Mohawk

The TT & other road races are dangerous if you crash, but less dangerous than a normal days road riding !

No, I don't see how any reading of the odds supports that statement. A couple hundred riders compete each year, several die. That means if you choose to enter the race, your odds of not making it home after that single event are in the 1/100 range.

Those aren't close to the same odds that we face for circuit racing, let alone normal road riding.

I take your point that the control of the course to eliminate many risks that do occur during normal road riding does lower the chance of some type of incidents (pedestrians, intersections, unexpected road conditions). It may be the safest environment for someone to run at race pace on a road circuit - but that's only because running at race pace at a road circuit is inherently risky (triple-digit speed with no run-off; random chance whether the rider slides into something immovable or forgiving after the slightest error).

[Mohawk]

This is not a quantifiable odds scenario. Some racers Never crash because of their actions. They rarely win either, but someone has to come 5th-28th to make the winners look good. Many crash because of other failures. They know the risk when they start a simple front slow puncture can kill you, racing or otherwise, but we still ride.

YMMV

[CC Cowboy]

'I did a lap of the Isle of Man, and I understand why people love this because it’s f**king awesome – it’s unbelievable, great. But, unfortunately, it’s*too dangerous. Sometimes, riders are crazy.' V.R.

I believe anyone should be able to do anything they want. If they know the risk and still want to do it, let them.

[MrAtom]

^Well put. I enjoy a certain level of safety, and that's why I do the things I do. But if anyone else doesn't share that view, I think they should be free to do whatever they want (even if it's riding buck nekkid).

Spoiler for It gets kinda dark here:

After all, it's their skin, their face, their life, their mourning family, their financial dependents.

[CC Cowboy]

Originally Posted by MrAtom

^Well put. I enjoy a certain level of safety, and that's why I do the things I do. But if anyone else doesn't share that view, I think they should be free to do whatever they want (even if it's riding buck nekkid).

Spoiler for It gets kinda dark here:

After all, it's their skin, their face, their life, their mourning family, their financial dependents.

Riding a buck is hard enough, doing it nekkid will definitely affect their skin, their uncontrollable laughing family, but I'm not sure how much it would cost them financially.


Hutchinson gets two first and a broken leg. Now that's an unforgettable Isle of Man.

[snot]

They know the risk. No need to preach how dangerous ______ is, if you are a pro at ______ you understand and are willing to do ______. If you are doing _______ for fun, then know your limits.

I have split my eye open before getting out of bed.... But I still get up everyday.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Mohawk

This is not a quantifiable odds scenario.

We'll have to disagree on that - by definition everything we can conceive can have odds attached to it. Either something happens or it doesn't. The more random chance applied - the more variability. In this case, the slightest error or random occurrence (horse running across course, taking out a rider at 150 mph awhile back), has unrecoverable consequences.

Trying to apply those odds in a deterministic way to the skill of the rider seems faulty to me as well. Backmarkers have catastrophic accidents (most of the ones this year), TT frontrunners have the same (Jefferies, Hutchins, Martin, Cummins, etc.)

[CC Cowboy]

A true racer doesn't look at risk (or they wouldn't be racing) they look at rewards and feel they have the ability to achieve them.

[backinthesaddleagain]

Didn't Lauda say something like 20% chance of death is acceptable risk and Hubt say Nikki you take all the fun out of it or something. And is the fire blade SP2 not ready for prime time ?

[Alex]

Originally Posted by backinthesaddleagain

Didn't Lauda say something like 20% chance of death is acceptable risk and Hubt say Nikki you take all the fun out of it or something.

Looks like it:

Originally Posted by Lauda

[argues his case for cancelling the 1976 German Grand Prix] I accept that every time I get into my car, there's 20% chance I could die and I could live with it, but not one percent more! And today with the rain, the risk is more.

Originally Posted by backinthesaddleagain

And is the fire blade SP2 not ready for prime time ?

Who knows. It's not doing much yet in WSBK, and it looks like McGuinness and Martin both had unexpected offs with it due to weird mechanicals. Let's hope there are different engineers on it from their F1 engine team.

[CC Cowboy]

Originally Posted by backinthesaddleagain

Didn't Lauda say something like 20% chance of death is acceptable risk and Hubt say Nikki you take all the fun out of it or something. And is the fire blade SP2 not ready for prime time ?

The RC213V-S sucked also!

[CC Cowboy]

Originally Posted by backinthesaddleagain

Didn't Lauda say something like 20% chance of death is acceptable risk and Hubt say Nikki you take all the fun out of it or something. And is the fire blade SP2 not ready for prime time ?

I've been calling Dale, Nikki Lauda lately. When people say he's a legend I say yeah, Nikki Lauda. You have to see him to understand.

[CC Cowboy]

I'm reading a book of Warren Buffett's wit and wisdom and although I'm not sure he ever raced motorcycles, or anything else, he has the wisdom with a quote about risk.

"Risk comes from not knowing what you are doing".

[DannoXYZ]

Hey, I work for Buffet in S.F.!!! I like his philosophies in balancing risks & rewards. If you want certain rewards, you have to accept matching risks and develop plans to deal with them. There are many in modern society who are so risk-averse that they see risk as black & white, all-or-nothing thing. It's not that simple, risks encompass wide range of greys.

Then there was that guy who rode his bicycle from Stockholm to Mt. Everest, climbed it all by himself, came back down and rode his bike back home! He managed same risks better than those who remain frozen on hill.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by JacRyann

Hey, I work for Buffet in S.F.!!! I like his philosophies in balancing risks & rewards. If you want the rewards, you have to accept the risks and develop plans to deal with them.

There are many in modern society who are so risk-averse that seeing any risk is a black & white, all-or-nothing thing. It's not that simple, risk is a wide range of greys.

Then there was that guy who rode his bicycle from Stockholm to Mt. Everest, climbed it all by himself, came back down and rode his bike home!

That guy climbed straight up with no altitude acclimation stops. Total beast.

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

A true racer doesn't look at risk (or they wouldn't be racing) they look at rewards and feel they have the ability to achieve them.

They only have so much time and energy. Focusing anything less than 100% on winning won't cut it!!!