Frame Sliders Total Motorcycle

[2WheelGuy]

I've been working with Pacific Track Time for the last 8 years running an average of 25 track days per year. One of my duties is to take care of the crashes. When it comes to crashes I have pretty much seen it all. My experience has been that frame sliders do much much much much more harm than good. What are frame slider good for? Making money for people who produce and sell them. Yesterday I took a couple photos that explain my case fairly well.

Here is a photo of a crashed frame slider. It looks like it has done its job. The slider is scratched but the bike is in good shape. The bike low sided in Turn 2 at Thunderhill raceway yesterday.


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But wait.
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That frame slider is on the other side of the bike.
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Here is a photo of the side the bike landed on when it crashed. The frame slider broke off breaking the engine mount and FRAME with it. It caused the bike to flip destroying the tail section and many other parts before landing on the side shown in the first photo.



I will admit that I have seen frame sliders that work. Complete stunter cages work well on bikes that rarely crash at more than 10 mph. If you crash at speed even a complete cage won't help.

Look at professional race bikes in MotoGP, WSBK, BSB, AMA Superbike, etc. How many bikes to you see with frame sliders?

[ninja250]

Ouch that's a gixxer too. I just took mine off yesterday because they seemed crappy.
Had to cut the piece of crap off just to get at the bolt and now I need new engine bolts too.





Thanks for the warning. I will not be installing new ones on the GSXR.

All my low speed ninja 250r tips frame sliders helped but not with my only high speed crash. I think they may have helped do more damage but I'm not sure, I was not watching the bike while sliding across the asphalt.

[mikedabike64]

very interesting 2WG. I saw a zx10r with sliders flip too ... good point

[caliente103]

if your going to the track take them off just use it for the street.
Posted via Mobile Device

[HorizonXP]

Yeah, but should this happen with good frame sliders that are designed to break off? Those look like no-cuts that don't mount anywhere sturdy. Take the Shoguns for the 250. They mount over the engine frame bolts, and the delrin plastic WILL break at high speed. I dunno, I still think frame sliders are a good idea for the majority of cases. You said that your experience is at the track. That means the sampling of crashes you witness are going to be worst-case scenarios, at high-speed. It doesn't prove that frame sliders are useless, just that they have their limits.

[kkim]

http://www.ninjette.org/wiki/Frame_sliders

[2WheelGuy]

Originally Posted by HorizonXP

Yeah, but should this happen with good frame sliders that are designed to break off? Those look like no-cuts that don't mount anywhere sturdy. Take the Shoguns for the 250. They mount over the engine frame bolts, and the delrin plastic WILL break at high speed. I dunno, I still think frame sliders are a good idea for the majority of cases. You said that your experience is at the track. That means the sampling of crashes you witness are going to be worst-case scenarios, at high-speed. It doesn't prove that frame sliders are useless, just that they have their limits.

As I stated good sliders can work at speeds up to around 10 mph. You are correct that track crashes are at higher speeds. The majority of track crashed occur in the 30-80 mph range. What speeds do you spend most of your time riding at?

Here are photos of another bike. This one was a too much brake, front end tuck going into Turn 1 at Thunderhill. I would guess that the bike was traveling at 80-90 mph when it hit the ground. The bike laid down and slid on its side for 30-40 yards before it left the pavement and slid into the dirt. The bike was in one piece when it left the track, but started flipping once it hit the dirt. I can't say for certain that the frame sliders were responsible for the flipping but our statics (yes we keep crash statistics) show that bike with frame sliders are 3 times more likely to flip in a crash. Yup the frame sliders did break off, how does that protect the bike?

[ninja250]

If the bike slides backwards (back wheel moving forward) I think frame sliders can flip it onto the tail too and do a bunch of unecessary damage.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Hadyn]

I never really understood frame sliders. I would think that hiding a frame behind some relatively cheap fairings would do more to protect the overall integrity of the bike than securely bolting on something that bypasses the flexible plastic bits and transfers the force of the impact directly back to the frame.

It seems like they would be more of a mental placebo than anything else, if you think you're protected you're likely to be more confident.

[Cab305]

I'm convinced to NOT get them now. Was on my wish list, even asked about having dealer do it before delivery. Apparently they are only good for parked bikes tipping over.

[Mista Bob]

I've always went along with the belief that the best 'frame slider', is the fairings.

[Yoda]

Have to agree never liked the idea of sliders.

[Flashmonkey]

Thanks for the pics, Craig. Hopefully this will at least make people think about adding stuff like frame sliders, etc onto their bikes. Most people seem to think it's a "must" or something.

Care to do a bit on flush mount turn signals?

[Jerry]

I just pretty much listen to Craig. Defend yer opinion all ya'll want, the guy knows what's what, punto.

[Dano]

I have only had a good experience with frame sliders. When I lowsided the sliders did their job protected the frame and engine cases so I was able to rebuild the bike, I was doing 35-40mph on a turn on the street.

[CZroe]

I can think of a use: Taking the fairings off while learning to ride is often suggested, but this removes protection for the important parts.

I always figured that this is why generic frame sliders are available. Just throw them on some engine mount points and put some low-speed miles on it until you know how to ride, no cutting or risking plastic required.

I hear that MSF bikes often take the fairings off, especially pregen 250s. Is there a good mount point for a generic with the fairings taken off? I ask because my sister wants to learn and I am interested in a second Ninjette and I don't want to have escaped dropping one all these years only to have her do it to one of mine.

[karlosdajackal]

Don't think its as simple as sliders or no sliders.

Sure a lot of race teams don't run sliders now well not always, some modern tracks that motogp and superbike go to are built to modern F1 standards and have tarmac runoff so the bike will continue to slide and slide if they are installed. Older tracks built to older F1 standards, have gravel or grass runoff, and yes the slider or if not the slider something else will catch the ground and dig in before leading to a flip. But without the slider it will be the hand controls or footpegs next.

Sure look at Jonatan Rea's crash at Monza race one this year, sliders or not the bike slid nicely until it hit the gravel then it was flying through the air and had not front end left. Then look at some of the crashes from Portimao most people just jumped back on the bike in the tarmac runoff and carried on, including those with sliders and those without.

Personally I don't run them, I think unless the frame is designed for them (not the other way around) there is no real way to be sure they will do what they should do. Also I believe in not crashing

[Rayme]

The handles bars are supposes to be the stock "flame sliders". Anyhow I'm never going to by them, they seem to be only good for fall from a dead stop..and that story with the slider ripping off the engine/frame just convinced me of my fear !

[Apex]

I don't like frame sliders. I have always thought that they were overrated.

I'll just go naked on the bike due to broken plastics before I ever go with sliders.

I have seen video where a guy went down smoothly (low side). The bike slid away from him, but then it hit the rumble strip. A frame slider caught it and it turned into a flipping frenzy. Bike would have been fine without it. That pretty much sums up my thought on sliders.


Ohhh, sliders, now I'm craving White Castle! I'm still ticked off that they don't offer WC down here.

[2WheelGuy]

Originally Posted by karlosdajackal

Sure look at Jonatan Rea's crash at Monza race one this year, sliders or not the bike slid nicely until it hit the gravel then it was flying through the air and had not front end left. Then look at some of the crashes from Portimao most people just jumped back on the bike in the tarmac runoff and carried on, including those with sliders and those without.

Don't get me started on gravel traps. My rant on gravel at Race Tracks is even more intense than my rant on Frame Sliders. Have you ever walked in a gravel trap? You sink in up to your ankles. Yes I did see Jonathan Rea's crash. His bike was sliding on it's side until it went into the gravel. The soft gravel allowed parts to sink in and catch causing the bike to flip. The effect was very much like having a frame slider spike sticking out of your motorcycle. The slider will catch on any surface irregularity causing the bike to flip.

You say some of the Moto2 bikes in the Porimao crash had frame sliders? Which ones?

[Greg_E]

You can just barely see an acceptable "slider" on the frame/fuel tank:

It's really not meant as a slider, more an energy absorber to try and keep you from dinging the frame. Plastic covering high density foam glued to the metal frame. Apparently very affective. I may cut some nice aerodynamic delrin smooth shapes to attach to the front and rear axles so that I don't have anything that sticks out like most sliders or spools.

For your track rental bikes, you might want to consider energy absorbers stuck to the body work in strategic areas to help cushion the fall and just call them sacrificial.

[karlosdajackal]

Originally Posted by 2WheelGuy

Don't get me started on gravel traps. My rant on gravel at Race Tracks is even more intense than my rant on Frame Sliders. Have you ever walked in a gravel trap? You sink in up to your ankles. Yes I did see Jonathan Rea's crash. His bike was sliding on it's side until it went into the gravel. The soft gravel allowed parts to sink in and catch causing the bike to flip. The effect was very much like having a frame slider spike sticking out of your motorcycle. The slider will catch on any surface irregularity causing the bike to flip.

You say some of the Moto2 bikes in the Porimao crash had frame sliders? Which ones?

Moto2 was not Portimao, Portugal (lovely run off in some places) that was superbike/superstock/supersport, etc. Didn't Laverty drop it from 2nd and pick it back up to finish 5th?

Moto2 was Jerez, Spain (which also has lots of gravel)

[Mista Bob]

Here's what happens to a 250 without frame sliders.



Not so bad and gives you street cred.

[Rayme]

Originally Posted by Mista Bob

Here's what happens to a 250 without frame sliders.



Not so bad and gives you street cred.

I'll take that over risking cracking the frame/engine !

[BlueRaven]

I bought and installed my sliders only because the only time my bike seems to drop is when it's not moving.

[Alex]

I dunno. I've had them on some bikes, not on others, and when I needed them, they helped quite a bit. I had an off coming over T9 at Thill, and my R6 slid away from me at almost triple-digit speeds on its slider, and the bike ended up with much less damage than I would have expected without the slider in place. I didn't have to replace a single piece of plastic on the bike, and the front and side fairings were barely nicked. Framesliders are no panacea, but not having them doesn't necessarily minimize damage either. Depends on the particular off. If we only knew exactly what type of incident we were preparing for, we'd have an easy time figuring out exactly how best to prepare the bike.

Best way to prevent damage is to keep it off the ground in the first place.

[addy126]

Originally Posted by BlueRaven

I bought and installed my sliders only because the only time my bike seems to drop is when it's not moving.

LOL

[Manimal]

Here's my experience and my opinion with sliders .....

I used to race and track YSR's. I have to agree, sliders cause more damage that not having them. The sliders worked great as long as the bike stayed on the pavement, but once off pavement and into the dirt, that is where all the damage takes place. When I had gone down without them, I only had minor scuffing on my fairings.

In a low slide situation and being that the sliders protrude beyond the body, they are one of the first hard part that dig and or get caught in the ruts in the dirt while attempting to slow down or stop momentum. That is a lot of blunt force and is no wonder often times you see them completely ripped off, bent out of shape and or break motor mounts.

I have to admit though, I do have them installed on my Ninja, but that's only because I bought my Ninja with them already installed Otherwise, I would not bother purchasing / mounting them.

On the other hand, I highly recommend delrin bar end sliders. They do their job well and will save your brake and clutch levers, in most cases.

[maglin]

It's all about the circumstances of the fall-crash.
Yesterday, I saved a lot of money due to crash pads.

[TrueFader]

same exact damage happened to my gixxer. 06/07? ya looks all too familiar. fortunately the sliders for my ninja are not attached to the main frame. I do take them off for the track.