you want a 400, you get a 400

[Anteraan]

43 hp, FI, curb weight is 33 more kg (~72 pounds). I love the idea of a 400, but it seems a bit heavy for the power jump. If the 250's frame could handle the 400 engine, I'd be willing to trade my 250 for that 400. Otherwise, I'm not that excited over the 400. I'd just as soon have the 650.

[Mista Bob]

This bike isn't meant for markets with no restrictions on bikes.

Right now as far as I know it is officially only being sold in two markets.
Japan and Canada.
400's are popular in Japan due to licensing restrictions on anything above that.
And in Canada, some provinces it is stupidly expensive to get larger bikes.
May not be an enforced restriction but it is definitely something that can prevent some people from getting a larger bike... saving 750 a year in fees could easily be more then enough to get people to buy this bike over the 650 version.
That 750 is the yearly cost jump between a bike that is 400 cc's and under VS 401 cc's and up in Saskatchewan from what I've been told.
Ontario and Quebec also have some stupid yearly fees for bikes.

And this isn't even insurance.... just fees to get the bike registered/plated each year.
Insurance for motorcycles is insanely expensive in Ontario and Quebec.
You're looking at 5000+ a year for insurance on just a 600 super sport in Ontario with a perfect driving record and not being a new-ish rider.

Edit: It's for these reasons I imagine why Kawasaki also brought the ZZR-250 here and not in the States.
And also with Honda bringing the CBR125 here and not in the States.
Smaller bikes sell better here due to the large costs with bigger bikes in some areas.

[TrueFaith]

Find me a way to buy one of these in the US and I'm ready to trade up. If these pass American EPA restrictions it might be time for a run over the border!

[TrueFaith]

Originally Posted by bdavison

Whats likely to happen is Kawasaki will dump this bike on us, saying they are testing the market for 400cc bikes.

And when it fails they will say...see thats why we dont make them..

Unfortunately they wont realize the reason it failed was because it was a bloated tuna boat...not because the market doesnt want a 400cc bike.

I doubt Kawasaki is "testing the market" with this bike, but that won't stop them from using the "sub-600cc bikes don't sell" excuse for years if it doesn't.

As long as I have a chance to grab one before they're discontinued I doubt I'll really care much. Having owned a 400cc street bike in the past I'd jump at the chance to own another. It was the perfect size engine for me and I've long lamented their absence from the market.

[Mista Bob]

Originally Posted by TrueFaith

Find me a way to buy one of these in the US and I'm ready to trade up. If these pass American EPA restrictions it might be time for a run over the border!

400R lists for 400 more then the 650R does in the States.
Add in the fact that dealers up here don't do nearly as good of deals on price as they do in the States and it becomes even more expensive.
Not to mention costs of shipping it back down there and any other costs with importing a bike from here.

You could just put a restricter kit and a 400 sticker on the 650R bought in the States, achieve the same effect and save yourself a lot of money.
....or just leave it stock.

[ScraitT]

Originally Posted by Mista Bob

400R lists for 400 more then the 650R does in the States.
Add in the fact that dealers up here don't do nearly as good of deals on price as they do in the States and it becomes even more expensive.
Not to mention costs of shipping it back down there and any other costs with importing a bike from here.

You could just put a restricter kit and a 400 sticker on the 650R bought in the States, achieve the same effect and save yourself a lot of money.
....or just leave it stock.

They haven't listed US prices, so we have no clue IF it even comes to the US.

The Canadian price for the 400 is 7500....however the Canadian price for the 650 is 8700 (NOT 7100 like the US). So the 400 is 1200 cheaper in Canada.

Now IF everything was fair and equal, based on the US verse Canadain price on the 650, the 400 would come out to about 6100 in the US. And if Kawi was smart, they would price is a couple hundred cheaper to make it sell well the first year at 5900.

[bdavison]

Originally Posted by Racer x

350 lb max 50 hp for under 5000 dollars. with FI is that impossible? Why not make a 350 ninja out of the 250 instead of making a 400 out of the 650?
I don't get it. Riding a 250 is great fun . Why not make it just a little bit bigger? NOT take a an already big bike and gut the power.

They cant really make a 350 from the 250....there is only about 05mm of room to bore out a 250 before the cylinder is trash....not enough to really make a 350. The could however have put that 400 in a 250 body...

I do agree with your second statement though. Choosing to sleeve a 650 down to 400 was not the answer.

This is what the 400R should have looked like.....and it would have made them RICH. And a pic of the 250R that I worked off of to create it, for a reference.

[Mista Bob]

TrueFaith was talking about making "a run over the border" to get one....
AKA importing one... Or at least that's what I gathered from his post.

So if one were to do that, you would of course be paying what it sells for here. Thus a comparison to the US pricing of the 650R makes sense.
I will be extremely surprised if they release the bike in the States. Very slim chance of it happening, Kawasaki has done a similar thing before with the ZZR-250 (available in Canada....not in the States).

[Mista Bob]

Originally Posted by bdavison

They cant really make a 350 from the 250....there is only about 05mm of room to bore out a 250 before the cylinder is trash....not enough to really make a 350. The could however have put that 400 in a 250 body...

I do agree with your second statement though. Choosing to sleeve a 650 down to 400 was not the answer.

This is what the 400R should have looked like.....and it would have made them RICH.

They couldn't have just put that 400 in the 250 frame. They are two completely different types of frames, 250 is a single back bone type frame and the 650/400 is essentially a twin spar/trellis.

It would require a completely new frame designed to fit that motor. Or at the very least a radically modified 250 frame... which would cost more to do then making a new one.
Not to mention you would also have to update the suspension and wider tires/wheels to handle the extra weight and torque.
And then you have yourself a completely new bike.... which isn't cheap which means lower profits and higher prices, which people aren't willing to pay for smaller cc bikes.

Sleeving down the 650 to 400 costs them very little and vastly widens the bikes market which brings them more money.
Like I said in my previous post, this bike isn't meant for markets with no restrictions.
Main reason for this bikes existence is solely for the Japanese market due to their 400cc licensing restrictions.
They just decided to ship it out to Canada also, as a market for it also exists here.

[Alex]

We've got quite a thread going about this already right over here. Doesn't look like the 400R is replacing the 650R (or the 250R, of course), but it may be seen as the replacement for the older 500R.

[ScraitT]

Originally Posted by Mista Bob

TrueFaith was talking about making "a run over the border" to get one....
AKA importing one... Or at least that's what I gathered from his post.

So if one were to do that, you would of course be paying what it sells for here. Thus a comparison to the US pricing of the 650R makes sense.
I will be extremely surprised if they release the bike in the States. Very slim chance of it happening, Kawasaki has done a similar thing before with the ZZR-250 (available in Canada....not in the States).

Ah ok, missed that part. But you still have to convert currencies

The 7500 canadian 400 would be about 7000 usd. So that would make the bike just about the price of the 650R here. More if there's other import fees and such.

But I do agree, I don;t see them bringing it here. With it being nothing more then a detuned 650, it just wouldn't sell much here unless there was a reasonable price difference.

The other side of this bike that I see for places like Canada and Japan that are getting it...I would imagine it would be fairly easy to swap out a few components and convert it to a 650r. You'd be insuring a 400 but riding a 650.

[adouglas]

650R engine swap kit development beginning in 3... 2.... 1....

[sombo]

First, if it passes Canadian EPA standards then it already beats US standards. And second, thanks to NAFTA there are no import taxes for anything coming in from Canada.

It won't come to the US except from people wanting to buy them from Canada and ship them into the US themselves. Hell we're lucky to even have the 250 as it were. Remember, they see us as dumb Americans always wanting "bigger is better" no matter what. So they won't even consider there being a chance of sales and profits for the 400 here in the US. The world runs on greed my friends.

[jonthechron]

Originally Posted by Banzai

Or as the replacement for the 500.

Well, they do remodel the supersports every 2 years, so I don't see why they couldn't spend a few yen on this model? Who knows!

[Perf_White_Gt]

400cc motor in a 250r frame... call it a day...

more power and a better looking bike...

[caliente103]

Originally Posted by adouglas

650R engine swap kit development beginning in 3... 2.... 1....

or a 400 engine swap kit for the 250
Posted via Mobile Device

[caliente103]

Originally Posted by Perf_White_Gt

400cc motor in a 250r frame... call it a day...

more power and a better looking bike...

i hope someone makes one
Posted via Mobile Device

[Anteraan]

Originally Posted by caliente103

i hope someone makes one
Posted via Mobile Device

That's a bike I could trade up for! And I'd do it in a heartbeat, given a decent trade value for my 250 and a color/paint scheme I like.

In time, they could drop the carbed 250 here in the states (keep the FI version for international), and keep the 400 as a starter bike, which it would be fine for. It would also provide a lot of room to grow into, which, after 2,500 miles, I don't feel the 250 does.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by Perf_White_Gt

400cc motor in a 250r frame...

I seriously doubt Kawasaki will ever go that route.

[Anteraan]

Originally Posted by kkim

I seriously doubt Kawasaki will ever go that route.

I do too, Kelly. I'm sure not holding my breath for it...but I would love it.

[kkim]

I'm sure every one of us would, myself included, but, putting an overpowered engine into a chassis designed to operate at 250cc HP levels is an exercise the Kawasaki lawyers would put a nix on as soon as the idea came up in committee, if it were to make it that far.

Even back in the days when Yamaha offered its FZR400, it was basically a FZR600 with a smaller engine. People looking at the FZR400 simply bypassed it and bought a 600 instead, which ultimately led to the demise of that 400.

[Perf_White_Gt]

Originally Posted by kkim

I seriously doubt Kawasaki will ever go that route.

Well what I was getting at was more make a 400cc bike that looks like the 250R

style of the zx bikes with more hp than a 250R

[demp]

http://www.kawasaki.ca/model/ninja-400r:1256

That's about as legit as it gets, I might have to go get one xD

[Goosey]

Originally Posted by demp

http://www.kawasaki.ca/model/ninja-400r:1256

That's about as legit as it gets, I might have to go get one xD

OH GOODNESS that is an attractive bike. I love the flush stock headlights and that 'backbone' beam exposed in the rear. Niiiice

[ScraitT]

Originally Posted by Goosey

OH GOODNESS that is an attractive bike. I love the flush stock headlights and that 'backbone' beam exposed in the rear. Niiiice

It is a nice bike, but you do realize that is the current 650R that's been out for years. They did a slight update to the front 650 for the 2010 model to give it its current looks. The 2009 and under 650's have a front end similar to the 250r (same headlight).

This "new" 400 is just the current 650r with the engine sleeved down to turn it into a 400r. The design however, while nice, is old since the 650r has been around for quite a while.

[Goosey]

Originally Posted by ScraitT

It is a nice bike, but you do realize that is the current 650R that's been out for years. They did a slight update to the front 650 for the 2010 model to give it its current looks. The 2009 and under 650's have a front end similar to the 250r (same headlight).

This "new" 400 is just the current 650r with the engine sleeved down to turn it into a 400r. The design however, while nice, is old since the 650r has been around for quite a while.

Haha nope I have no idea what most bikes look like yet.

[ScraitT]

Originally Posted by Goosey

Haha nope I have no idea what most bikes look like yet.

Ya, just go on Kawi's US site and look at the current 650r. Identical

[Perf_White_Gt]

seems some people cannot detect sarcasm...

[coondog]

There are many canadians in florida, part and full time. A canadian riding buddy has been pushing my buttons on the 400R he's going to buy because it looks like the 650R (I sold mine). Turns out "discounted" ones are $7K(us and canada bucks are equal now) so I've been busting back due to getting an 08 500R for $3800 with 40% plastic gone and one pipe which didn't leave me alot of pieces for naked changeover but still acceptable. We're true buds and he said truce, what should I do? I just came back from a dealer where he bought a brand new 500R for $3700 (last year offered, 2009). With all that new plastic, guages, exhaust system for me to sell (I deal parts on side, not much Kawa but it's brand new and unavailable at what I'll be asking). Can't wait to see a better set up Ninja 500R Streetfighter than mine. Of course I will pay for it from his frenchieness, but what a ride it will be. He told me early on the 400 was naked but it's all faired up, like I said, a smaller 650R. (42hp, 27 torque). Nice for this old cripple to have a project as my days are over except for the riding part and a 125 2-stroke somewhere in the future. Ride on folks, bless and keep y'all.

[LoneRonin]

Like you said its just a smaller engine in a 650 body...making it underpowered. Its only been released in two markets, Canada and Japan, and its just to save on ridiculous insurance surcharges. In Canada its mostly only Quebec..after 400cc they go wayyy up. So its pointless, here I could just get a used 650r which are easy enough to find for the same price or less than the 400r. But its somewhat of a replacement for the ageing and discontinued 500r, if its your first bike and you don't wanna go 600cc+ but want more oomph than the 250 its your only option...

[SSR]

If they had put that 400cc on the body of the 250 ninja, then we'd be talking. I heard that the weight difference between the 400 and 650 is 2lbs.

[slolane]

Originally Posted by SSR

If they had put that 400cc on the body of the 250 ninja, then we'd be talking.

I'm with you on that!

[ithaca00]

The 400 engine is really a 650! It's just sleeved down to 400cc...

[NJfinest50]

anyone have any information on the 400R, or when it will be in the dealership?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDQOUGHAIjs

http://beforeitsnews.com/motor-junki...r-2445734.html

[old3]

Canada got the 400 as I recall, I doubt you'll see it in the USA as it is identical to the 650 except for bore/stroke.

[NJfinest50]

http://www.motorbeam.com/bikes/kawas...nja-300r-400r/

[Jiggles]

Never

/thread

[Joshorilla]

Ooo nice looking bike, it reminds me a lot more of the 650, it's better looking than the 300 also, it's got more sexy thighs and bum.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Joshorilla

Ooo nice looking bike, it reminds me a lot more of the 650, it's better looking than the 300 also, it's got more sexy thighs and bum.

That's because it is the 650, sleeved down. It only exists because of Quebec and New Zealand licensing laws.

Originally Posted by NJfinest50

http://www.motorbeam.com/bikes/kawas...nja-300r-400r/

They're simply wrong. They were jumping to conclusions based on US EPA certification or something. It would have already been announced because there is no secret or reason to keep a lid on it when we already know exactly what it is from the Canadian market.

As a sleeved-down 650 that suffers for it and is only a little bit more powerful than the 300. The 300 gained about 10 HP with about 47cc displacement increase and the 400 only gains about 7 HP with 100cc over that. Those are drastically diminishing returns with very little differentation. The only reason is exists is to be the largest bike an entry level buyer can buy there.

Roughly:
250~28 HP
300~36 HP
400~43 HP

The 300 is closer to the 400 than it is to the 250.

[Alex]

/merged with a few other "400" threads