n00b totals 250 on first ride

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Sinister

Simple fact of the matter is even if he didn't touch the brakes at all, it does not make him magically at fault. The people that matter (insurance adjusters, police) obviously did not find that he was traveling at an unsafe speed and the driver of the car was to blame.

Could he have avoided it? Beats me, i wasn't there. Neither were any of you. Be nice when football season starts again and all the armchair morons can go back to shouting at the tv about what players should have done instead of the gimpy guy with the busted bike.

Ha, made me lol

Just made the video public. I also made comments by approve only. Something about anonymous people making remarks that I cannot refute bothers me. So instead I put a link in the description to this site where they can argue about how much of a ****** dumbass moronic rider I am

[Chicagoan]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

I'm getting sick of people trying to pour the blame on me when that is so obviously not where it belongs

Nobody should blame you (she pulled a retard move), but it is smart to pick apart the small mistakes you made because it makes everyone reading this thread a better rider.

I go slower on the side streets because in chicago you're never more than 2 blocks from a main street where you can go decently fast. On main streets people pay more attention; people act retarded on these side streets as this video clearly shows. Also... I'v always heard that the quickest way to slow down is to use both breaks progressively, any experienced rider want to confirm/deny this?

[drac]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Ha, made me lol

Just made the video public. I also made comments by approve only. Something about anonymous people making remarks that I cannot refute bothers me. So instead I put a link in the description to this site where they can argue about how much of a ****** dumbass moronic rider I am

Don't worry. No one has to argue about it....It's right there for everyone to see on youtube.

[dfox]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

I'm getting sick of people trying to pour the blame on me when that is so obviously not where it belongs

you were not at fault in this accident, there is no blame put upon you what so ever. blame and prevention are two different things. people, including myself, are simply stating that there was some preventative measures that could (and should) have been taken.

if you STILL think that traveling down a residential street at 30 mph is acceptable, you're pretty thick skulled. I travel at 30ish when there's no cars on the side of the road and I can see far ahead. when there's cars, particularly around bends where you're put into a blinded situation, like what happened in this case, yes, you should be traveling slower.

your desire to rip down residential streets, thinking that everything is just peachy, is careless and has gotten you into trouble once, learn from it.

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Really?? How would you have avoided the impact? One respected motorcycle rider suggested that the impact was avoidable had I swerved to the other side of the street and added throttle, and even then he gave it a 50/50 shot. But now, if you see someones tires turn do you immediately think, "Oh holy **** ima swerve to the other side of the street lay on the throttle and zip out of this mess" nah probably not unless you're in motogp.

that is exactly what I would have suggested to do, and the thought that came across my mind the second I saw the car start to move in the video. SWERVE, there's a reason they teach it and test it in the BRC class. and actually yes, that is EXACTLY what I do. I drive in an urban area, not suburban like it looks like where you live. Yes, people pull out from parallel parked conditions at me. Yes, I swerve to the left most side of my lane to avoid them. this happens just about every day.

[Ptdoughnut]

sounds to me like everyone is getting some sort of sexual thrills hating on jiggles. The first time i watched the video i heard the tire lock up. Anybody who thinks they have a better reaction time is just ridiculous! Basically it would be like saying you can react to everything in hundredths of a second.

Haters gonna hate?

where are you mounting your camera's? What mounts with the GoPro specifically?

Seems to be rocking an epic injury beard in your new riding video

[drac]

See the proper way to emergency brake on a sportbike is to use only the front brake.

Can you show/tell me where you got this little gem? You dispense bad advise, dude.

At the very last second I locked up the front because I got on it too hard

You locked up the front brake because you didn't brake hard enough to begin with. When you were about to hit the car you panicked and pulled on the front brake with everything you had.

NO YOUR REAR BRAKE SHOULD NEVER EVER EVER BE LOCKED UP. EVER.

Wrong!

The beginning of a correct panic stop

If you knew the correct way to panic stop you wouldn't have a broken leg.

[akima]

@Jiggles: I'm pretty sure @dfox was trolling you in his post. Your reaction time clearly was good, your speed isn't a clear cut case of being too fast (and he's making out it is) and he threw in a cheap insult about you choosing your speed to show people how manly you are. If he's not a troll he's either in a bad mood or not to bright.

I do think he's right to bring up the idea that you should think about your speed (we all should) and that there could be stuff to learn from this accident (personally I like the ninja-style jump over the roof suggestion someone made ), but he could have made those points without sounding like a prick.

We love ya Jiggles and we know that you're the victim of the incident and the <insert preferred derogatory term> who hit you is at fault.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by dfox

if you STILL think that traveling down a residential street at 30 mph is acceptable, you're pretty thick skulled. I travel at 30ish when there's no cars on the side of the road and I can see far ahead. when there's cars, particularly around bends where you're put into a blinded situation, like what happened in this case, yes, you should be traveling slower.

Thick skulled I am then, I don't think traveling 30mph on a residential is unnaceptable.

Originally Posted by dfox

your desire to rip down residential streets, thinking that everything is just peachy, is careless and has gotten you into trouble once, learn from it.

There's a huge difference between 3mph over and ripping down the street. If you want to see me ripping down residentials, watch my 0-60 video

Originally Posted by dfox

that is exactly what I would have suggested to do, and the thought that came across my mind the second I saw the car start to move in the video. SWERVE, there's a reason they teach it and test it in the BRC class. and actually yes, that is EXACTLY what I do. I drive in an urban area, not suburban like it looks like where you live. Yes, people pull out from parallel parked conditions at me. Yes, I swerve to the left most side of my lane to avoid them. this happens just about every day.

You swerve to the leftmost side of your lane, not the other side of the street. They don't teach swerving to within a foot of the opposite curb in the MSF. That is the only way I could have escaped this accident and even though the guy thought I had a 50/50 shot at it, I'd put those odds more along the lines of a 1-10% chance, reason being, that girl had no idea I was there until I was on her hood, she would not have stopped nor slowed and would have likely clipped me. Now this would have resulted in less injuries sure, but I really don't think crashing was at all avoidable.

Originally Posted by drac

Can you show/tell me where you got this little gem? You dispense bad advise, dude.

It's been linked to you multiple times in other threads and you've chosen to ignore it. I'm not going to go digging for information that you will not even consider

Originally Posted by drac

You locked up the front brake because you didn't brake hard enough to begin with. When you were about to hit the car you panicked and pulled on the front brake with everything you had.

Correct, I wasn't anticipating this girl to continue to go out across the entire street, so I didn't brake as hard as I could. When I realized she was doing that I tried to brake harder and at the last second locked it up

Originally Posted by drac

Wrong!

Good argument, let me counter that with nah uh!

Originally Posted by drac

If you knew the correct way to panic stop you wouldn't have a broken leg.

drac, I believe you are stuck in the thought process of riding a cruiser. On any bike but a sport bike the correct way to stop is as you have described it (only without the locking up the rear) However on a sportbike in an emergency braking situation, literally all of your braking power comes from the front. If any is coming from the back then you aren't braking to the full potential of the bike. I'm also still waiting on that video of you stopping in 0.9 seconds, till then I'm done with you

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Ptdoughnut

sounds to me like everyone is getting some sort of sexual thrills hating on jiggles. The first time i watched the video i heard the tire lock up. Anybody who thinks they have a better reaction time is just ridiculous! Basically it would be like saying you can react to everything in hundredths of a second.

Haters gonna hate?

where are you mounting your camera's? What mounts with the GoPro specifically?

Seems to be rocking an epic injury beard in your new riding video

I had one on my helmet, one on the tail fairing and my other was a contour roam attached to a mount that bolts onto the gas cap. Just standard mounts that came with the gopro.

Haha yea, it was a motorcycle beard, since I've now ridden again I need to decide what to do with it

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by akima

@Jiggles: I'm pretty sure @dfox was trolling you in his post. Your reaction time clearly was good, your speed isn't a clear cut case of being too fast (and he's making out it is) and he threw in a cheap insult about you choosing your speed to show people how manly you are. If he's not a troll he's either in a bad mood or not to bright.

I do think he's right to bring up the idea that you should think about your speed (we all should) and that there could be stuff to learn from this accident (personally I like the ninja-style jump over the roof suggestion someone made ), but he could have made those points without sounding like a prick.

We love ya Jiggles and we know that you're the victim of the incident and the <insert preferred derogatory term> who hit you is at fault.

He's a damn good troll then. Yea ninja leaping was the only way I could see escaping without injury lol. And for the preferred derogatory term, She was a cuntsicle

[Ptdoughnut]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

I had one on my helmet, one on the tail fairing and my other was a contour roam attached to a mount that bolts onto the gas cap. Just standard mounts that came with the gopro.

Haha yea, it was a motorcycle beard, since I've now ridden again I need to decide what to do with it

The sticky mounts? I have a handlebar mount somewhere i was going to try out but i got rained out. The roads flooded.

As long as the beard doesnt rub in the helmet keep it... i dont think i could handle that

[Jiggles]

Don't put it on the handlebar, way too much vibration

[drac]

It's been linked to you multiple times in other threads and you've chosen to ignore it. I'm not going to go digging for information that you will not even consider

#1 Wrong ......it was linked in another thread we had this discussion in and the data clearly showed that the braking distance was SHORTER when using both brakes. Albeit about 4% shorter if my memory serves me. Still shorter and I actually commented that those couple of feet you gain can make the difference. As you should of learned.

Correct, I wasn't anticipating this girl to continue to go out across the entire street, so I didn't brake as hard as I could.

#2 So you didn't brake as hard as you could. Well there ya' go....

drac, I believe you are stuck in the thought process of riding a cruiser. On any bike but a sport bike the correct way to stop is as you have described it (only without the locking up the rear) However on a sportbike in an emergency braking situation, literally all of your braking power comes from the front. If any is coming from the back then you aren't braking to the full potential of the bike. I'm also still waiting on that video of you stopping in 0.9 seconds, till then I'm done with you

See answer to #1...... Dude you have little to no idea what you are talking about. You've been riding for what a year or two, have maybe 10-15k miles under your belt. Your crash and he video you posted are pretty much concrete evidence that you are a very inexperienced rider and have a long way to go before you become proficient. Your inability or unwillingness to accept the fact that you screwed up and could have greatly mitigated the injuries from or possibly completely avoided that crash shows your immaturity.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

I can't tell if your trolling or if you're just a ****ing idiot. 1.53 seconds between her tire visibly turning and the collision. Explain to me how that is ample time. Let's not forget the reaction time of 0.60 seconds which gives you 0.9 seconds to brake/swerve/**** your pants.

You could have only reduced to 16 mph before impact, maximum (doing a perfect braking stoppie style); hence, you would have impacted at some speed above 16 mph, probably over the driver's window.

Your left femur may have resisted that impact, but your head, upper body and right leg would have received some extra damage.

0.7 seconds is the normal reaction time = From recognition to decision of taking action

0.3 seconds is the normal time from end of reaction time to reaching maximum brake power and deceleration (here is where the two fingers over the handle save some tenths of second)

That leaves 0.53 seconds of potential pure braking before reaching point of collision in this unfortunate case.

Vfinal = Vinitial + (Deceleration rate x Breaking time)

Normal deceleration rate is 0.8 g (-25.8 feet/sec each second), while max (sustained stoppie) is 1.0 g (-32.2 feet/sec each second)

28 mph are 41.07 feet/second

Vfinal = 41.07 + (-32.2 * 0.53) = 23.9 feet/second = 16.3 mph

The impact damage of that speed is equivalent to free falling sideways (bike and rider) from a height of 9 feet.

Pure braking couldn't avoid the collision.

[drac]

If you think you can only slow to 16mph from 28mph in a second you are high.

Average reaction time for humans is 246 milliseconds NOT 700 milliseconds

That leaves over a second to decelerate.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Motofool

You could have only reduced to 16 mph before impact, maximum (doing a perfect braking stoppie style); hence, you would have impacted at some speed above 16 mph, probably over the driver's window.

Your left femur may have resisted that impact, but your head, upper body and right leg would have received some extra damage.

0.7 seconds is the normal reaction time = Form recognition to decision of taking action

0.3 seconds is the normal time from end of reaction time to reaching maximum brake power and deceleration (here is where the two fingers over the handle save some tenths of second)

That leaves 0.53 seconds of potential pure braking before reaching point of collision in this unfortunate case.

Vfinal = Vinitial + (Deceleration rate x Breaking time)

Normal deceleration rate is 0.8 g (-25.8 feet/sec each second), while max (sustained stoppie) is 1.0 g (-32.2 feet/sec each second)

28 mph are 41.07 feet/second

Vfinal = 41.07 + (-32.2 * 0.53) = 23.9 feet/second = 16.3 mph

Awesome. I'm curious where you found the reaction time statistic. I looked it up and could only find that for car drivers it was upwards of 1 second

[dubojr1]

Oh now my head is spinning with math equations...

[Motofool]

I don't know much, I just learn from smarter people:

http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=263&Set=

http://www.msgroup.org/articles.aspx?Cat=2

Sean, you missed the last sentences that I added.

[drac]

Ummmm.....where does it mention reaction time? All my research has shown reaction times average at about 246 milliseconds.

I never disputed any of the other numbers or the math.

Actually average time is lower....215 milliseconds according to http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/...time/stats.php

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by drac

Ummmm.....where does it mention reaction time?

http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=031&Set=

[Jiggles]

Average reaction time on a motorcycle is 0.62 seconds

http://www.promocycle.com/documentat...valfrein_e.pdf

http://www.bikesafer.com/detail/braketime.html

[drac]

The mean BRT obtained by the
group of test subjects, all classes combined, was 0.463 seconds. When the subject waited for the signal with fingers already poised over the brake lever and foot positioned over the brake pedal, the mean measured BRT was reduced by 0.154 seconds

.463 - .154 = reaction time of 301 milliseconds

This study shows that the mean brake reaction time is shorter by 0.154 seconds in covered mode
than in non-covered mode. At 100 km/h, this variation in BRT lengthens stopping distance by
4.28 metres.
No correlation could be established between age, sex, motorcycle riding experience or
automobile experience and combined brake reaction time.
In conclusion, if the sample is representative of the population of motorcyclists in Quebec, we
can predict with a certainty of 95 per cent that the mean combined brake reaction time for the
population is between 0.461 and 0.465 seconds.

Thanks for the study Jiggles. It helped to bolster my contentions on reaction time.

And now you know why I said you should always have the front brake covered when in a residential area.

[dubojr1]

So it looks like it takes about .6-.7 sec. to recognize the threat, .03 sec. to react, another half sec. or so for the suspension to compress and then full braking potential can occur.

Is this correct?

[Jiggles]

0.463 seconds is covered mode 0.615 seconds is non covered mode

[rmorse]

Lol, you guys are silly.

Here's the deal - At fault means NOTHING. I would rather be alive and not at fault than dead and not at fault. A motorcycle vs a car, car will always win. It doesn't matter if the car was at fault, it still wins.

25 MPH speed limit does not mean that going 25 MPH is driving safely. Let's say that there was a line of stopped cars ahead. Do you keep traveling at 25 MPH, even though you'll hit them? What about ice? Fog? Freezing rain? Obstructed view?


Look, I don't think anyone is saying that Jiggles was driving incredibly reckless and was asking for it. I don't think anyone is trying to lame blame on Sir Jiggz-a-lot, or saying that the chick had the right of way. I do think (and I agree) that the outcome *might* have been a little bit better had the jigmeister been going a little slower and covering his brake and/or clutch. On the other hand, it might not have! Doesn't matter; I'd rather try to minimize my injuries and fail to minimize them, than to not try and minimize them.


It's really simple, and you guys are getting all bent up over it.


EDIT: For the record, I would have been doing about 10 - 15 MPH in a situation like that (and I do that everyday when I ride), because that scares the **** out of me.

[drac]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

0.463 seconds is covered mode 0.615 seconds is non covered mode

Reading comprehension not your strong point, huh?

The mean BRT obtained by the
group of test subjects, all classes combined, was 0.463 seconds. When the subject waited for the signal with fingers already poised over the brake lever and foot positioned over the brake pedal, the mean measured BRT was reduced by 0.154 seconds

[dubojr1]

[Jiggles]

What was that about reading comprehension? lol. It won't let me copy paste it correctly so I screenshotted it. You are subtracting the covered reduction from a number that has already included it.

[drac]

.463 was mixed combined BRT......615 isn't even on the chart

According to your chart, your reaction time should have been .386(average). That's the average male BRT when having brake covered. Which you should have.



You were in a residential area with cars on both sides. You should have been in "alert" mode in that scenario which means we just need to use the .386 second reaction time. That leaves you 1.23 seconds to brake from 28 mph.

[drac]

According to motofools math you would have hit the car at 1.464 feet per second if you had of panic braked properly. I have no idea how fast that would be.....like .0004mph. So you can see it was possible to not impact the car.

While I think that number is a bit unrealistic I firmly believe that if you had of panic braked properly as soon as you saw the car moving you would have impacted at 5mph or less.

If you had a fast reaction time say 125 milliseconds(not unheard of) you could possibly not hit the car at all.

[Vergil]

Damn Jiggles, when you're 100 percent you got a long road trip and quite a few mail boxes to hit with a bat ahead of you.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Vergil

Damn Jiggles, when you're 100 percent you got a long road trip and quite a few mail boxes to hit with a bat ahead of you.

Lolwut?

[Ptdoughnut]

i think hes telling you to go smash drac's mailbox... and maybe that womans

[Jiggles]

I'm down

[Ptdoughnut]

sounds like a ride to remember

[drac]

While you're hear smashing the mailbox come on down the driveway and knock on the door. If you have the time I'll teach you how to brake. Hell for that matter I'll teach you how to ride. You appear to need all the help you can get.

[Jiggles]

Well I wouldn't want to learn how to do it wrong so I will pass thank you though

[CynicalC]

Originally Posted by Stingray1000

AWW why did you block it out I wanted to call your brother too....

408-62*-**08

Missing digits are for sale.

[dfox]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

You swerve to the leftmost side of your lane, not the other side of the street. They don't teach swerving to within a foot of the opposite curb in the MSF. That is the only way I could have escaped this accident and even though the guy thought I had a 50/50 shot at it, I'd put those odds more along the lines of a 1-10% chance, reason being, that girl had no idea I was there until I was on her hood, she would not have stopped nor slowed and would have likely clipped me. Now this would have resulted in less injuries sure, but I really don't think crashing was at all avoidable.

I completely agree that swerving would be tough. The MSF tests a basic skill, not the maximum of your ability.

The problem with speeding on a residential street is that most drivers are not expecting speeding cars, let alone speeding motorcycles. They're in their comfort zone. That u turn that the girl took has probably been taken time and time again, to the point that it's become so familiar that she got complacent and occasionally forgot to check her mirrors.

[Jiggles]

^ most likely, but again I wouldn't call 28mph speeding