DIY: Installing the Ecotrons EFI Kit on a Pregen

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by drphils87

I am struggling with every damn thing on this bike. Everything is hooked up on the bike ready to put gas in. I put a quart in the tank. The petcock starts dripping, but not from the sides, the two bolts that hold it on.

If it leaks from the bolts, then you don't have the proper washers on there. The washers are special rubberized gasket washers. You can't use hardware store bolts/washers there. Use the ones that came off the petcock.

Have you fixed the barbed fitting inlet to the fuel rail yet? JB WELD doesn't stick good to aluminum. It will vibrate loose.

EDIT:
And don't use gasket maker on an o-ring gasket like the petcock. It ruins everything. The gasket maker stuff is only for the pipe threads. If you used it, you'll need to clean everything off, buy a new o-ring gasket for the petcock, and start over.

[choneofakind]

1. Relax. Getting mad at it usually ends up in breaking things.

Originally Posted by drphils87

The petcock starts dripping, but not from the sides, the two bolts that hold it on.

Are you using the supplied fuel tap? Did you use the OE gasket from your OE petcock?

[drphils87]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

If it leaks from the bolts, then you don't have the proper washers on there. The washers are special rubberized gasket washers. You can't use hardware store bolts/washers there. Use the ones that came off the petcock.

Have you fixed the barbed fitting inlet to the fuel rail yet? JB WELD doesn't stick good to aluminum. It will vibrate loose.

EDIT:
And don't use gasket maker on an o-ring gasket like the petcock. It ruins everything. The gasket maker stuff is only for the pipe threads. If you used it, you'll need to clean everything off, buy a new o-ring gasket for the petcock, and start over.

Alright so I decided to give this thing a rest for a week. I decided since I got my tax refund I'd look at a second vehicle. I bought my friends little red mitsubishi last weekend so now I'm not worried anymore.

I decide to fix the tank Sunday night: fixed and cleaned petcock with rubber intertube and rubber washers from the hardware store. It doesn't leak anymore. Filled it with another quart of gas. The bike won't even crank. The only thing that happens is a click from the "Startre Circuit Relay" according to the manual what the hell is a startre?. It isn't the main starter relay with the two small and two big wires. It has four small guage wires. Anyway it is a red and yellow wire splits to the headlight relay and the "Starter Relay" spelled right.
I've ruled everything else out except a faulty wire. Tested it, spliced a temparary wire and it cranks. It didn't start at all, even though I let the fuel pump prime for a while until it stopped completely everytime I turn the key. This is in rich mode with the bung nuts installed. I'm thinking, sh8t, I got gas on the map sensor somehow when the tank leaked. I gave up for the night.

I tried again Monday night: cranked it, STARTED?!? but only on one cylinder! It started smoking, but I took a quick look and it was the paint on my header. Is the paint supposed to dry like that? Okay so I double checked all my connections on the FI wire harness, GOLDEN. That's all I did though. I am thinking of all the other tests I going to do to it tomorrow. It doesn't leak at all. I think I did a good job with that one straight barb too. I watched someone one youtube jbweld his aluminum bicycle frame together... and I did some research too. It should be fine. It's not even taking that much abuse; it's just sealing it up. the fitting is half way screwed in and crooked.

I don't know what to think anymore.

[drphils87]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

1. Relax. Getting mad at it usually ends up in breaking things.



Are you using the supplied fuel tap? Did you use the OE gasket from your OE petcock?

Yes and yes, it was leaking through the bolt holes which aren't protected by the gasket at all. Oh and the orginal didn't come with rubber washers. I hate this gas tank design. Hondas don't have this problem. My honda rebel had a big nipple sticking out the bottom instead.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by drphils87

I decide to fix the tank Sunday night: fixed and cleaned petcock with rubber intertube and rubber washers from the hardware store. It doesn't leak anymore.

Honestly, you really should ask here before you try new things. I'm not sure what you did with the rubber inner tube, but if you tried to make some sort of gasket out of it, its not going to work. The rubber that they make inner tubes out of dissolves in gasoline. So pretty soon, your petcock will start leaking again and leaking badly.

Check with your local dealer. The newgen petcock gasket and washers are less than $10.

92055-1112 "0" RING,FU $3.02
92200-0117 WASHER,6.5X11.5X0.8 QTY=2 $1.55ea

I've ruled everything else out except a faulty wire. Tested it, spliced a temparary wire and it cranks. It didn't start at all, even though I let the fuel pump prime for a while until it stopped completely everytime I turn the key. This is in rich mode with the bung nuts installed. I'm thinking, sh8t, I got gas on the map sensor somehow when the tank leaked. I gave up for the night.

If you installed the map sensor on top of the throttle body like I did in the video, then its probably not damaged. What wire did you splice? I hope you didn't bypass the starter relay because if you did you will be needing to buy a new right handlebar cluster pretty soon.

I tried again Monday night: cranked it, STARTED?!? but only on one cylinder! It started smoking, but I took a quick look and it was the paint on my header. Is the paint supposed to dry like that? Okay so I double checked all my connections on the FI wire harness, GOLDEN. That's all I did though. I am thinking of all the other tests I going to do to it tomorrow.

Yeah, the high temp paint will smoke for a good long while. Mine is still smoking a little.

I don't know what to tell you about the running on one cylinder thing. Are you positive that its running on one or could it be running on two badly? Did you blow out the lines before final assembly?

Did you install a fuel pressure test port like I did in the video? If so, what is the pressure when running?

There are lots of things that can do this, but here are a few to check.

A. Make sure you have the injectors connected to the correct connector. INJ1 goes to the left side of the bike (left while you are sitting on it).

B. Make sure the injector connectors are pushed in all the way so that you hear them click. Some connectors have minor defects and may need a little help with this. But if there is no click then its not connected. The same is true of all the electrical connections.

C. Low fuel pressure in the rail. Your JB-weld may be sealing more than the outside. Check the pressure on the other end.

It doesn't leak at all. I think I did a good job with that one straight barb too. I watched someone one youtube jbweld his aluminum bicycle frame together... and I did some research too. It should be fine. It's not even taking that much abuse; it's just sealing it up. the fitting is half way screwed in and crooked.

JB-weld doesn't stick that good to aluminum. A bicycle frame doesn't have to deal with the vibration of an engine. Its only a matter of time before your barb pops off and sprays you with gasoline.

Where do you live? Is there anybody locally you can ask about how to repair it? You can ask a guy at an automotive machine shop for advice. They can probably fit it too, but he will probably charge you something.

[n4mwd]

Just wondering if anybody from this group buy is up and running yet?

[Red250R]

No I'm still shopping for an exhaust. More like waiting for a used one to pop up on here. I have it built here on my desk sitting right in front of me so it's kind of like taunting me lol

[drphils87]

Then why don't I ship the fuel rail to you and you can fix it for me. I'm being serious. I really think I'm more likely to have a leak on the barbed end of some other fitting. Also it won't pop off because it is half way screwed in with jb weld between the threads. I really don't want to buy more tools that I'm only going to use once, so I will ship it to you if you agree to it, otherwise I'm not going to fix it unless it does leak. I will pay you.

The washers on a newgen petcock are not rubber. I tried these washers on the new petcock and it leaked. I screwed the bolts in with inner tube wrapped around them along with gasoline rubber resistant washers, not a drop yet. It will be fine.

There are two starter relays. All I did was put an extra wire inbetween the two. I've studied all the wiring diagrams for this bike and trouble shooting guides and it says I have a bad wiring harness.

The bike is running on one cylinder. It isn't stalling at all on the one cylinder. It is steady and I can even rev it without it stalling. Yes every connecter is were it should be and secure. So are you saying some of the jbweld come off and is now plugging up the injector? I'm just about to run test as soon as I get off.

Yes every thing is just like yours in the video. Also I know more about what is going on with my bike than you do. I'm only asking for advice and tips. I don't have to run anything by you before I do something.

[n4mwd]

The washers used on a newgen petcock are the same ones used on pregen petcocks. They are metal washers that have been coated with a gasoline proof rubber that make a perfect seal against leaks. Its possible that yours were somehow damaged when you removed the original petcock.

For fixing the straight barb, look around for a local machine shop. That kind of thing is what they do.

And yes, I do believe your idle problem is related to the jb-weld. You can test by pulling the electrical connector off one at a time until you find the one that makes no difference.

Also I know more about what is going on with my bike than you do. ... I don't have to run anything by you before I do something.

The first sentence is probably false. The second is true. But if you want any help or advice from me in the future, you need to quit f*cking up your bike which means you should ask before doing irreversible things. You're treating it like an old tractor. There is no place in the video that says to use jb-weld and cross thread a fitting like that.

[drphils87]

I'm out.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by drphils87

I'm out.

I'm sorry its come to this, but some people are not sufficiently mechanically inclined to install this kit. A person with sufficient aptitude for installing this kit would have known instinctively that a cross threaded fitting is wrong and can't be left that way.

My final advice to you is to sell the bike, as is, kit and all, to someone with the necessary skills to get it running. The Ninja 250 is a high performance machine. It will not survive a duct tape and bubble gum mechanic.

[lgk]

i don't get why its so tough, i got my kit running in a couple of days.

[Red250R]

Originally Posted by lgk

i don't get why its so tough, i got my kit running in a couple of days.

Yeah I don't get it either. Especially with a video explaining step by step what to do. I had a lot of questions beforehand but now that I have it here sitting in front of me, I can already picture the install once I'm ready to tear down the bike. It's a simple install. Even for the less mechanically inclined.

On another note, how's it running @lgk ? Did you install it with the oxygen sensors or are you running off of rich mode right now?

[lgk]

Originally Posted by Red250R

Yeah I don't get it either. Especially with a video explaining step by step what to do. I had a lot of questions beforehand but now that I have it here sitting in front of me, I can already picture the install once I'm ready to tear down the bike. It's a simple install. Even for the less mechanically inclined.

On another note, how's it running @lgk ? Did you install it with the oxygen sensors or are you running off of rich mode right now?

still running well, after 11,000miles.

i did install the o2 sensors and use eco mode mostly.
the rich mode is great though with chone's map

[Red250R]

Oh lol sorry. For some reason I thought you were in on this most recent group buy. Nonetheless, that's good to hear. Will someone please post up a used full exhaust system?! Lol I told myself that if one didn't pop up by the 2nd week of May I'd buy one straight up. I'm hoping for either Area-P or Tyga. If I have to buy straight up then I'll decide between LV, Area-P, or Tyga.

[choneofakind]

n4mwd, tone it back a bit. It's his bike, he can take care of it the way he wants. You're coming off pretty strong right now, just like you did when I was asking about different types of clamps. I've talked with you enough to know that you had good reasoning behind that criticism, so I shrugged it off and listened to the advice. However, I think you were unreasonable with Phil.

Phil, I'd bet you can contact Matt and see about buying a new fuel rail if you're still interested in an EFI conversion on your bike. I personally did not do any of the modular install and did not replace any of the brass fittings on the fuel rail; the bike runs great the way I have it as well. That's an option once you fix the fuel rail. I hope you don't get put off from the kit because of this. I'm very happy with mine and I've enjoyed learning about fuel injection as I've gone.

Now can we all just play nice?

[Red250R]

@choneofakind lol not me, Phil. I didn't even try to put it on the bike yet lol

[choneofakind]

Oops, multitasking. I edited that post for correctness.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

n4mwd, tone it back a bit. It's his bike, he can take care of it the way he wants. You're coming off pretty strong right now, just like you did when I was asking about different types of clamps. I've talked with you enough to know that you had good reasoning behind that criticism, so I shrugged it off and listened to the advice. However, I think you were unreasonable with Phil.

Chris, that's not a very fair comparison. In your thread, it went something like this:

Chris: I used water hose clamps on my EFI kit.
Me: Water hose clamps are not good for EFI, you should use fuel hose clamps.
Chris: I know, but I already have water hose clamps on there and they don't leak.
Me: Ok, just so you know that is the wrong thing and you may have trouble later on.

The Phil thread went something like this:

Phil: HELP my EFI kit doesn't work, what shall I do?
Me: Ok, here is what you need to do to fix it.
Phil: HELP, I ignored your advice and now its even worse, what shall I do?
Me: Ok, here is what you need to do to fix it.
Phil: HELP, I ignored your new advice and now its much worse, what shall I do?

So no, the two threads are not the same. Simply put, when I give advice and people don't take it, eventually I give up and don't give them any more advice. I have better things to do.

HOWEVER, there is nothing saying that you can't help him if you want to. I wont stand in your way, but if it doesn't have anything to do with the video install, it really belongs in the other install thread.

One of the first things I said in the video was that there are other ways to install the kit besides what I presented. But if people want my help with the modular video install, they need to stick reasonably to the video. Otherwise its a different install.

[choneofakind]

Well the way I read your comments (and I think the way that Phil read them) was that you basically told him he had to ask permission to do things to his own bike. Just FYI, it came off a little strong. That's why I stepped in a bit. I'm afraid you may have scared off a relatively new member.

PS, have you replaced that blue hose yet? That stuff turns hard and dries out over time. The only thing it's really good for is the tube up to the MAP sensor.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Well the way I read your comments (and I think the way that Phil read them) was that you basically told him he had to ask permission to do things to his own bike. Just FYI, it came off a little strong. That's why I stepped in a bit. I'm afraid you may have scared off a relatively new member.

PS, have you replaced that blue hose yet? That stuff turns hard and dries out over time. The only thing it's really good for is the tube up to the MAP sensor.

No, but replacing the blue tubing is on my list. I think the problem is that its not alcohol resistant.

Yes I was probably a bit strong with him, but because he did seem to have a self destructive propensity I felt it was the only way to either get the thing running or get him out of here. And yes, I deliberately made the demand that he ask permission before doing things if he wanted my continued help. What he fails to realize is that although it is his bike, its my investment in time helping him. So every time he goes off and screws something up, he is screwing me too. I simply put a stop to that.

[choneofakind]

Okay, but it's his bike. He can do what he pleases with it. If someone told me to ask permission before working on my bike, they'd go straight to the ignore list. That's all I'm saying. I'm not in the business of being a jerk to new members because I feel that they're doing things wrong. Usually I just let other members help them instead.

[drphils87]

No he didn't chase me off. I just won't post here anymore after this. This sight is so much more helpful than the manual I bought for it. There are so many ideas about how to customize this bike. Also it's easier to maintain too because I can just type in what my problem is and see if anybody else is having the same problem. The manual doesn't tell you how to do valve adjustments on a newgen, and neither does youtube.

I didn't think this whole barb fitting was that big of a deal because he said it might be okay, but now he says it can't be left like that. If it does leak from there I will fix it the way he says to. I plan on leaving my bike naked for a while anyway. Same with the petcock.

Bad spark plug. Bike runs fine.

[drphils87]

The only thing I messed up was that one fiitting. Everything else messed up on it's own. The wiring, the petcock, and the fact the thing wouldn't start the first time must of been a deal with the ECU and wasn't my fault. I was careful to not break anything. I'm trying really hard not to show anger, but you keep insulting me...

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Okay, but it's his bike. He can do what he pleases with it. If someone told me to ask permission before working on my bike, they'd go straight to the ignore list. That's all I'm saying. I'm not in the business of being a jerk to new members because I feel that they're doing things wrong. Usually I just let other members help them instead.

Chris, please don't insult me by suggesting that my time is worthless.
I normally don't make such demands, but in this case it was warranted. I simply put a price on my future help for him. The price was that he ask permission before making irreversible changes. He refused that price. Case closed.

[choneofakind]

I never suggested your time was worthless...? Not sure where you're getting that one from.

I'm just saying that he can do whatever the hell he wants with his bike. He doesn't have to ask 'permission'.

[lgk]

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

I'm just saying that he can do whatever the hell he wants with his bike. He doesn't have to ask 'permission'.

AND I don't have to help him any more either.

Just to be perfectly clear here. I am not required to help anyone.

All I am saying is that he doesn't want to do what I ask him to do so I am not helping him any further. You are implying that I MUST help him even if he refuses my request.

He is perfectly welcome to seek help from others, but he will not get it from me. My patience has limits.

[lgk]

Why so serious?

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by lgk

Why so serious?

Just trying to save the guy from himself. Perhaps I should have worded it better: "If you'll agree to check with me before making radical and irreversible changes to the kit, I'll continue to help you get it running."

Oh well.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Just trying to save the guy from himself. Perhaps I should have worded it better: "If you'll agree to check with me before making radical and irreversible changes to the kit, I'll continue to help you get it running."

Oh well.

Sounds a lot better when you word it that way.

[Red250R]

On another note. I know the kit is supplied with two O2 sensors, but do both of them have to be used? Can one bung just be welded on right after the header(s) meet and become one pipe? Just a random thought as i was looking at my exhaust.

[n4mwd]

No. The ecotrons ECU is set up almost like two independent one cylinder engines. So if you only used one sensor, one side would be running rich mode and the other eco mode. Not a good scenario. More than likely, if one sensor is out, the ECU probably reverts to rich mode.

The O2 sensors in the kit draw a lot of extra power if they aren't mounted like in the video. They have internal heaters that suck up a lot of current when they don't get hot enough from the exhaust.

I think the OEM bikes that have EFI do mount it at the location you said, but they run a different kind of system.

[Red250R]

Ah alrighty. I figured something like that would restrict me from just having one O2 sensor. Now i just have to position the bung nuts on my new exhaust header so i can take them to get welded on.

[n4mwd]

I was also told that in addition to all the other restrictions, they have to also be mounted pointing slightly downward.

Good luck with them. They are a pain to get aligned right, but once its done, its done.

[Red250R]

So i should probably put the headers on the bike first and then mark as to where they need to go? Or think freehanding it would work? I only ask because its dark out right now and its gunna rain wednesday. i won't have the time tomorrow.

[n4mwd]

Yes, you need to be able to precisely place the nuts in the right spot. The sensors can't touch anything or you'll have problems. As a minimum, install the new headers and then use a sharpie to mark the center of the nut. I'm not that familiar with how the newgen goes together, but I would try to center the shaft of the sensors between the engine and the plastics.

Have you ground your nuts concave on one side or are you going to let the welder do that?

[Red250R]

i was gunna let him take care of all that. much easier i'm sure

[drphils87]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Just trying to save the guy from himself. Perhaps I should have worded it better: "If you'll agree to check with me before making radical and irreversible changes to the kit, I'll continue to help you get it running."

Oh well.

How old are you? You sound like a middle aged man in your video, but you act like you're my age (nineteen) with all your comments and insults that aren't even half way true.

Yes I did f8ck up that fitting, but I did a damn good half ass job of fixing it. I even put the rail in the vice and put a small amout of pressure on that fitting. If it does fail I'll know almost right away. My bike will stall, and I'll smell gasoline. That and it will easy to take it out since it will be broken loose if that happens. I have a lot to say to you about all your other posts, but there is a good chance you blocked me since you didn't reply to my last posts, so I won't go on anymore.

I want to post pictures now since I got my hands on a digital camera, but no one, especially you, would be interested.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by drphils87

How old are you? You sound like a middle aged man in your video, but you act like you're my age (nineteen) with all your comments and insults that aren't even half way true.

Yes I did f8ck up that fitting, but I did a damn good half ass job of fixing it. I even put the rail in the vice and put a small amout of pressure on that fitting. If it does fail I'll know almost right away. My bike will stall, and I'll smell gasoline. That and it will easy to take it out since it will be broken loose if that happens. I have a lot to say to you about all your other posts, but there is a good chance you blocked me since you didn't reply to my last posts, so I won't go on anymore.

I want to post pictures now since I got my hands on a digital camera, but no one, especially you, would be interested.

There is really no point in continuing this conversation. You are not blocked and you can post photos if you want. But you have said you aren't going to fix it, so what's the point?

Apparently you missed the part where I said that JB-Weld does not stick good to aluminum. It sticks for a few months, then suddenly fails. If you happen to be riding at that time, you've got a 45 psi flame thrower aimed up your leg. But you clearly believe otherwise, so who am I to argue with natural selection?