0-60 Challenge: Why My 250 is Potentially Faster Than Your 250!

[choneofakind]

As many of you know, n4mwd and I kinda threadjacked nickjpass's thread about the 2012 CBR250R while talking about 0-60 times.

SOOOOO and idea came to me. If we're wondering the differences in times from classic 250 to new 250, why not get the whole forum involved? That way we can get definitive numbers (and many trials) to show that either one generation is better, or as I suspect, that they're nearly identical

Rules for taking part in this 0-60 challenge

• Complete a 0-60 test only when it is safe to do so. I am in no way, shape, or form advocating riding like a caffeinated monkey with a hernia.
• I don't want to see any top speed videos posted for this. I don't want anyone getting pulled over, or worse, injured because I have a fun science experiment. See rule number 1
• You must come to a complete stop before taking off
• Run numbers on gearing commander, or this (for classic 250 guys) so you know what corrected speed will be 60 mph actual speed. We want this to be 0-60, not 0-57
• Try to do this on level ground. We want this "experiment" to be as repeatable as possible
• Record your times and post the video so we can prove each trial is valid.
• Don't do this in traffic, if possible. See rule number 1.
• Of course time slips from the drag strip count! If you've got them, post them!!
• Have fun and be safe! Learn about your bike, and get out and ride!
• If there's any tidbits of info that you learn from one run that would help others out, feel free to share them.
• Assumed error for times is ±1/2 a second.
• If you feel like including things like headwinds, temps, bad jetting, not enough time on the treadmill lately, etc. go for it. They do make a difference, but I'm not that worried about it. We'll just average them out in the end. This is a "real world" test.
• If possible, go through your video frame by frame to get a more exact number for start and end times of your 0-60 test.

I'll go first:

Link to original page on YouTube.

helpful tips:

• When launching at 9k or above, clutch control is going to be the hard part, hence the wheelette in the second attempt. My launch at 6k was much more successful, although was likely slower than a WOT launch with proper clutch usage.
• Clutchless shifting is easy, and faster. Try it.
• Shifting at 12.5-13k seem gets you right back into the power band when you start in the next gear. Waiting until red-line just takes longer.

[alex.s]

6k? 9K? WOT!!!

side note- its not valid unless you have a gps

[EsrTek]

You didn't get your wheel up between 1st and 2nd.. plz go out and repeat!

[Racer x]

How about timing slips from the drag strip?

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Racer x

How about timing slips from the drag strip?

Those count too! post 'em!

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by alex.s

6k? 9K? WOT!!!

side note- its not valid unless you have a gps

That's why I said to compensate for the speedo error. Not all of us have GPS's, but we all have speedo's, and as long as you compensate, it will be close enough. They're all built to the same tolerance.

for me, 130/90 Rear, 100/90 front, 14/47 gearing, 60 is indicated as 63 mph @12,070 rpm in 3rd gear. By reviewing my video frame by frame, that gave me 2 ques to be accurate enough in my timing; the tach and the speedo.

[Racer x]

For those with a Koso dash the power test feature will record 0-60 time.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

That's why I said to compensate for the speedo error. Not all of us have GPS's, but we all have speedo's, and as long as you compensate, it will be close enough. They're all built to the same tolerance.

That's not what I've seen. They seem to vary a good bit, and there's no way to compensate accurately without a known speed standard. That's either a radar gun or GPS for most of us.

Originally Posted by choneofakind

for me, 130/90 Rear, 100/90 front, 14/47 gearing, 60 is indicated as 63 mph @12,070 rpm in 3rd gear. By reviewing my video frame by frame, that gave me 2 ques to be accurate enough in my timing; the tach and the speedo.

The problem is that the tach has just as much error margin as the speedo, so it doesn't really buy much when you're trying to be precise within a mph or 2. Also, the gearing won't affect anything on the speedometer, that's only affected by front wheel size. Gearing changes will affect how to use the tach readings, but that still doesn't make it terribly accurate.

None of this makes it a useless exercise, and whether it's 62 mph or 66 mph won't change the world, but it does mean that the times are also effectively variable by .5 - 1.0 seconds IMO.

[choneofakind]

Well, me stating the gearing was so that alex could to to the site and use the same inputs. I know it has nothing to do with the speedo. That's off the front wheel.

So now we just have a margin of error to consider also. Times are now + or - 0.5 seconds.

[Alex]

That works.

[ninja250r81]

pay for a dyno run.

you can setup the dyno for 1/4 mile run and get the figures off that.

bonus = no fine, speeding, loss of licence etc

[alex.s]

can i post my speeding ticket for doing 103mph in a 50 on the ninja250? it was lidar.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by ninja250r81

pay for a dyno run.

you can setup the dyno for 1/4 mile run and get the figures off that.

Didn't realize they could time you on that. I thought they just gave hp and AFR numbers. Good tip though!

Originally Posted by alex.s

can i post my speeding ticket for doing 103mph in a 50 on the ninja250? it was lidar.

While impressive, no. This is a 0-60 thread



hang on, where's @Jiggles, and @n4mwd? they have videos that would work well here.

[n4mwd]

Yep, here's mine...

Link to original page on YouTube.

I'm using oversized tires (90 aspect ratio) but that makes the speedo more accurate.

Also, my runs are slower because of a bad carb and poor shifting.

[Ramen]

You'd think there would be a 0-60 app for Android somewhere.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I'm using oversized tires (90 aspect ratio) but that makes the speedo more accurate.

same, but my 14/47 gearing averages out to the same as 80 profile tires

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Also, my runs are slower because of a bad carb and poor shifting.

I was having the same issues. My needles could use another washer. We'll see if that makes any difference. I think the biggest thing for getting faster time was making more than one run. The more runs I made, the faster I got. that, and shifting without the clutch right at 13,000rpm

[gt_turbo]

where are the new gen vids at? wish i had a gopro.

[choneofakind]

Borrow one!!!

Jiggles has a video, and I know @massacremasses has a gopro. So does @Kevin2109 (but he BETTER USE HIS 250!! )

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Borrow one!!!

Jiggles has a video, and I know @massacremasses has a gopro. So does @Kevin2109 (but he BETTER USE HIS 250!! )

Video cameras are pretty cheap these days. A goPro is probably one of the best, but a cheapie like this one for $40 also works well.

The main thing is that you need a good mount. This is what I used.

[lc86]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Video cameras are pretty cheap these days. A goPro is probably one of the best, but a cheapie like this one for $40 also works well.

The main thing is that you need a good mount. This is what I used.

I ordered the suction mount thing, I never thought to just use my camera as a video cam, so now I just need to find somewhere I can do it. I know of plenty of roads around here, just none that are straight and flat with no traffic. I guess I can always do it on a freeway entrance or something worse case.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

The main thing is that you need a good mount. This is what I used.

Here's what I got. Had to cut the end off cuz the pregen tank is so short that it was bonking the keys.

But it works on the newgen without modification

[massacremasses]

ill do it tomorrow.

[Jiggles]

I'll do some more runs on monday. Since I got my valve adjustment my bike has been running better, maybe I can shave off a few tenths of a second

Link to original page on YouTube.

[choneofakind]

I don't have a smart phone. Too expensive

[CZroe]

I'll sit this one out. Mine has the infamous variable tach syndrome and a heavy rider

[jdoucet93]

Originally Posted by Ramen

You'd think there would be a 0-60 app for Android somewhere.

They do. It's called "UlyseeSpeedometer". It's quite useful.

And on a side-note, can I enter the contest with my new bike?

[cuong-nutz]

I shall join in on the fun!

[greg737]

I'm interested also, but for slightly different reasons.

The analysis software that I use for my FI system (MegaLogViewer is the name. Is it just my 4th-grader potty-humor mentality or is that a funny name?) includes the ability to estimate the vehicle's horsepower during the analysis of your riding datalogs if you input a list of parameters into it like rear tire cirumference, final drive ratio, gearbox ratio, displacement per cylinder, number of cylinders, etc.

When properly set up the MegaLogViewer software becomes a "poor man's" dyno. You have to go out and datalog some max-power runs, like the 0-60 mph testing you guys are doing here on this thread. Then you go home and input the datalog to the MegaLogViewer software and run it run several times over, changing the gearbox ratio for each of the bike's gears.

It doesn't produce a single sheet of paper printout result like a dyno session does, but through the process I've described above you can cobble together a pretty accurate idea of the bike's true horsepower.

This 0-60 thread is my new inspiration to do this testing, now all I have to do is find the time.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Well, me stating the gearing was so that alex could to to the site and use the same inputs. I know it has nothing to do with the speedo. That's off the front wheel.

So now we just have a margin of error to consider also. Times are now + or - 0.5 seconds.

At 60 mph the bike is moving at a rate of 88 feet/second.

Maybe we could get a more accurate comparison just by chrono'ing a known distance in feet.

Google Earth allows to measure the distance of your test very accurately.

Being the great physics guy that you are choneofakind, you can calculate a standard distance at which your Ninjette has reached more or less 60 mph.

Less time covering that distance wins, and we can calculate mean hard numbers using the media acceleration obtained for each model.

Just an idea, of course.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by jdoucet93

can I enter the contest with my new bike?

sorry mate, no. This is to start/decide a fun contest betwixt generations to see which bike is "better". It's well documented that 600's can do 60 in less than 4 seconds. 250's are somewhat debated because the numbers vary so much based on rider weight.

but if you want to practice some 0-60 times and record them on your own, (still post them somewhere. you know I'll watch them ) that would be good also. Launches are a good skill for a rider to have. They're also a skill I'm no good at and would like to improve upon.

Originally Posted by greg737

(MegaLogViewer is the name. Is it just my 4th-grader potty-humor mentality or is that a funny name?)

This 0-60 thread is my new inspiration to do this testing, now all I have to do is find the time.

Hey glad I can help! As the thread starter/officiator, I can't choose sides (go classic 250's!) but at least it will help with your personal data gathering on hp. My completely unbacked hypothesis is your hp is about the same as carbs with pods, but you'll have more torque.

megalogviewer. hmmm. They can sell that without requiring you to be 18?

Originally Posted by Motofool

you can calculate a standard distance at which your Ninjette has reached more or less 60 mph.

Yeah we could to that. I could go set a "standard" distance, then the competition would be who can be the fastest person from a dead stop to that distance (which the rider would be going roughly 60 mph) But that would take a second person to record accurate times. That would also require more calculations on my part because inevitably, someone would mess up the numbers. We're kinda doing a simple experiment.

Good suggestion though. That was one thing I never really thought about when I went out and did my 0-60 times

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by greg737

This 0-60 thread is my new inspiration to do this testing, now all I have to do is find the time.

I'd be curious how well the FI bike does on these runs. It should do better, but you never know....

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Rider weight...

Good point. I'm probably 230# with all the gear so that is another reason my times were off.

[Kevin2109]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Borrow one!!!

Jiggles has a video, and I know @massacremasses has a gopro. So does @Kevin2109 (but he BETTER USE HIS 250!! )

I have a 250?!

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

I have a 250?!

U can use mine

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

I have a 250?!

yeppers!

at least you keep telling me you still have it

[greg737]

Okay, so today I got the camera mounted, got the netbook computer connected to the FI system's Microsquirt ECU for datalogging of the event and went out for some 0 to 60 runs.

You know what I learned? I learned I don't like that sort of riding. Something about it bothers me. I got the job done (I think), but I didn't enjoy it.

Working on the video now.

*Edit*

Okay, I've spent a few minutes getting an initial look at the video I shot. I have to say I don't launch the bike very well (I only did about 5 runs before I had to admit 0 to 60 timetrials riding wasn't for me and headed back home).

Conservative estimate of the video so far (not trying to shave it at all in the analysis of the tape), I'd say 7.21 is the best I did.

... and now that I've watched myself a bit more I'm realizing I don't shift very well either. All I can say is that so far this 0 to 60 testing thing has been a real eye-opening experience for me with regard to watching myself ride the bike on video and not particularly liking what I'm seeing.

Going to a friend's house now to drink some beer. Maybe I'll post some video of the whole thing here on the thread tomorrow.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

I have a 250?!

Pull two plug wires off the ZX6 and it should be a fair comparison.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by greg737

Okay, I've spent a few minutes getting an initial look at the video I shot. I have to say I don't launch the bike very well (I only did about 5 runs before I had to admit 0 to 60 timetrials riding wasn't for me and headed back home).

... and now that I've watched myself a bit more I'm realizing I don't shift very well either. All I can say is that so far this 0 to 60 testing thing has been a real eye-opening experience for me with regard to watching myself ride the bike on video and not particularly liking what I'm seeing.

hey Greg that's ok! you're following this rule:

• Have fun and be safe! Learn about your bike, and get out and ride!

Riding is all about learning. That's what we're all here for.

Launching is a great skill to have, and I bet that you know a whole lot more about it now than you did before you started today, making your attempts worthwhile. Not to mention, the data you gained will be helpful in your diagnostics of your FI setup.

[leed]

Hmmm.. I will have to try this when the weather is nice. But I have no camera.. I suppose I'll have to borrow/use my phone as GPS instead.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by leed

Hmmm.. I will have to try this when the weather is nice. But I have no camera.. I suppose I'll have to borrow/use my phone as GPS instead.

Most digital cameras have a video function. You can use that. I've seen video on even those little $20 keychain cameras at Wall Mart.

[leed]

I don't have a trustworthy way to mount my a DSLR, otherwise I would!