0-60 Challenge: Why My 250 is Potentially Faster Than Your 250!

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by leed

I don't have a trustworthy way to mount my a DSLR, otherwise I would!

When I did the following video (not a true 0-60 run), I just tied my SLR around my neck with the straps. I don't think anything fancy is required.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Kevin2109]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

yeppers!

at least you keep telling me you still have it

What? No I dont, ever...

Are you thinking im alex again?! geez chode

[leed]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

When I did the following video (not a true 0-60 run), I just tied my SLR around my neck with the straps. I don't think anything fancy is required.

[youtube]93atMXLIfeQ[youtube]

Hmm... Seems to work for you hahaha, I'll have to give it a shot.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

What? No I dont, ever...

Are you thinking im alex again?! geez chode

damn. not again...

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by greg737

... and now that I've watched myself a bit more I'm realizing I don't shift very well either. All I can say is that so far this 0 to 60 testing thing has been a real eye-opening experience for me with regard to watching myself ride the bike on video and not particularly liking what I'm seeing.

Going to a friend's house now to drink some beer. Maybe I'll post some video of the whole thing here on the thread tomorrow.

If you don't like your results, just go out and do a few more runs. Practice makes perfect.

[greg737]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

If you don't like your results, just go out and do a few more runs. Practice makes perfect.

I understand that, but what I was trying to point out in the post you just quoted was my personal discovery of the fact I really didn't enjoy the 0 to 60 experience. I think my overall feeling was unrelated to my results, so doing more probably wouldn't be better.

For that reason alone I don't think I'll be spending my time doing any more 0 to 60 testing. One of my favorite authors, David Foster Wallace, once published a collection of non-fiction called, "A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again", which I think perfectly describes the situation I have here.

When I got back from my 0 to 60 ride yesterday I had a weird feeling, that feeling could only be described as my having not enjoyed riding the bike. It was a spooky feeling. Since the day I purchased it, my EX-250 has always been a source of pure fun/joy for me, just walking past it in the garage lifts my spirits. It was very unsettling to have ridden it and not enjoyed myself.

So right after I posted to the 0 to 60 thread I jumped back on it and took the 30 mile ride to my friend's house, going from the east side of Spokane to the west side via the twistier roads south of the city. This got me back into the riding I enjoy. Feeling much better now.

(Still planning to work on a video analysis of my results to carry through with the intent of this thread)

[choneofakind]

^^ no worries Greg. That's because the ninja 250 really doesn't excel at accelerating. Twisties are where it's at.

I understand not liking being dissatisfied with a ride.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

That's because the ninja 250 really doesn't excel at accelerating. Twisties are where it's at.

No NO NO.... That's totally FALSE.
OK, half false. The second part is true.

It does excel in acceleration. The fact that SOME bigger bikes can accelerate faster is irrelevant. As far as 4 stroke 250cc bikes, the list of unmodified production bikes that can do better is very short.

@greg737 - To each his own I guess. But I thought that you were a commercial pilot. Your comments surprise me given the G-forces when a plane takes off. Anyhow, for me, that's my normal diving style, so it was quite enjoyable.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

It does excel in acceleration. The fact that SOME bigger bikes can accelerate faster is irrelevant. As far as 4 stroke 250cc bikes, the list of unmodified production bikes that can do better is very short.

well... True, but I was thinking in comparison to all other road-going motorcycles, not just the other 4-stroke 250cc bikes.

[greg737]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

@greg737 - To each his own I guess. But I thought that you were a commercial pilot. Your comments surprise me given the G-forces when a plane takes off. Anyhow, for me, that's my normal diving style, so it was quite enjoyable.

I've really come to appreciate the natural, totally comfortable and competent riding style that a lot of the life-long riders here on the forum have. I see it in your videos.

Don't forget that I didn't ride motorcycles from age 19 to age 42, I've only been back in the game for 5 years now. I truly enjoy my riding but I'm realizing that I'm not a "natural".

It's also true that I do feel much more comfortable and at home in the cockpit of an aircraft, but that's probably because it's the only job I've had since I was 24.

If I had continued to ride motorcycles throughout my 20s and 30s maybe I'd be more of a "natural" rider. Or I'd be dead, at least that's what my family insisted would happen when they got me to stop when I was 19.

[zzrguy]

I dont know if its just me but your bikes look slow? maybe mine is too and just feels fast... within the next day or two ill get out my contour and do my 0-60 time on my 2002 ZZR 250 it revs alittle bit higher than the regular 250. I also cant wait to dyno it and install all the goodies that are currently being shipped.
Stage 3 Jet kit,Two bros Slips ons and K&N Airfilters

[choneofakind]

yeah for sure get a ZZR in the mix! That will for sure get more data for our little "quickest 250R variant" debate.

haha yeeaahhh uhhh they always feel a ton faster than they actually are @zzrguy

If you can get under 6 consistently, that would be impressive, other than that, welcome to the mid-6 ninja 250 club


EDIT: my third run looks pretty quick. I managed to get below 7 seconds. I want to get below 6 just to say I did it on a ninja 250 with minimal mods.

[Jiggles]

My goal is to be under 6

[greg737]

Originally Posted by zzrguy

I dont know if its just me but your bikes look slow? maybe mine is too and just feels fast...

based on recent experience they look fast to me.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by greg737

Don't forget that I didn't ride motorcycles from age 19 to age 42, I've only been back in the game for 5 years now. I truly enjoy my riding but I'm realizing that I'm not a "natural".

Well motorcycle physics and airplane physics are similar but not the same. You bank to turn and stuff like that. Maybe the 0-60 runs are kicking in some flying reflex that makes you uncomfortable .. "Nose wheel grounded. Airspeed not sufficient! Abort! Abort takeoff!" Well you get the idea. Something that happens on the Ninja that would be a red flag if it happened in the cockpit.

You actually have a lot more motorcycle experience than I do in terms of years. I only sat on a motorcycle for the first time when I bought this Ninja about 18 months ago. Before that I had ZERO experience riding a motorcycle. I had ridden a bicycle when I was a kid and was pretty good at it, but never anything with an engine.

So 18 months ago I was a downright horrible rider. I came really close to getting turned into road pizza by a mack truck when I got confused about the countersteering thing and swerved right into his path. I signed up for the MSF course when I got home. Since then, I have put about 11K miles on my Ninja just riding around town mostly. The car only has about 500 miles during the same time.

But the thing about riding skills is that no matter how good you are, you can always get better.

[Kevin2109]

So Youre saying I cant join in on this?

[choneofakind]

guess not. Sorry Kevin. we've already seen your 0-60 vid

borrow someone else's 250 and then you can get in on it

[menikmati]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

guess not. Sorry Kevin. we've already seen your 0-60 vid

borrow someone else's 250 and then you can get in on it

I actually own Kevin's 250 but I won't be posting any videos since I don't think I've ever tried to go WOT and I'm terrible at shifting.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by menikmati

I actually own Kevin's 250 but I won't be posting any videos since I don't think I've ever tried to go WOT and I'm terrible at shifting.

cool! well then learn how to! you should make a point to learn something new every time you ride

[menikmati]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

cool! well then learn how to! you should make a point to learn something new every time you ride

Whenever I commute the first thing I have to do is get on the freeway and I shudder every time I screw up a shift. Seems like when I'm just casually commuting I shift fine but when I want to haul ass I somehow have jerky shifts. When I think about it, it's probably because my coordination between throttle off/on with slow clutchwork since I'm used to gently easing out when cruising.

[choneofakind]

practice shifting smoothly, with as little slippage time as possible. It will become muscle memory. In my 0-60 attempts, I didn't use the clutch, except for the one time that I forgot and used it on my 1-2 shift (also trial that took me the longest, 8.4 seconds)

[menikmati]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

practice shifting smoothly, with as little slippage time as possible. It will become muscle memory. In my 0-60 attempts, I didn't use the clutch, except for the one time that I forgot and used it on my 1-2 shift (also trial that took me the longest, 8.4 seconds)

I've only tried clutchless shifting maybe about twice and it resulted in jerkiness, is it only useful when in the upper RPM range? I think I did it on accident while putting around at around 4K and it jerked pretty bad.

I think this week on my commute I'll slowly work on increasing throttle input while focusing on smooth shifts rather than trying to jump to going WOT while having bad shifts. Trying to get these bad habits out of the way ASAP.

Funny thing is that I probably downshift better than upshifting at speed. Maybe I'm designed to go slow rather than go fast.

[choneofakind]

Clutchless seems much easier up in the high rpms, idk why. Working on quick, smooth gear changes is a good goal for the week

[menikmati]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Clutchless seems much easier up in the high rpms, idk why. Working on quick, smooth gear changes is a good goal for the week

At my rate of learning, it'll be a lifetime goal. I tend to associate quick with "careless GOGOGOGOGOOGGO."

[Jiggles]

Well here's what I did today. My fastest time was 6.36 I must have done like 20 runs lol

Link to original page on YouTube.

[cuong-nutz]

Don't know how accurate this is but I'll try. Wheelettes FTW

Link to original page on YouTube.

155 lb rider
full squid gear
full race exhaust
DJ stage 2 jet kit
72* F ambient air
half a tank of gas

[NathanUc]

[n4mwd]

If you have a time less than 7 secs, please post your body weight and any mods such as tire size, mufflers, EFI, etc. I'm starting to think my 230# weight with gear may have a negative effect on my times.

[NathanUc]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

If you have a time less than 7 secs, please post your body weight and any mods such as tire size, mufflers, EFI, etc. I'm starting to think my 230# weight with gear may have a negative effect on my times.

That is my concern lol. I'm around 190lbs and my leather suit ALONE weighs like 25lbs.

Maybe I'll borrow my 90lbs Asian friend to do it for me. Or we can do fancy math to take out body weight somehow (probably? math is crazy yo)

[choneofakind]

I'm 135lbs
14/47 sprockets (cancels out my 90 profile tire to have the same effect as stock gearing with an 80 profile rear tire)
two brothers pipes, intake lid opened up, 108 mains, 3 washers on the needles, 2.75 turns idle mix screws.

I was in a moderate tuck the whole time

[Jiggles]

200lbs
Double bubble windscreen
Area P full exhaust
Shimmed, not stirred
Bt45 tires standard size

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Shimmed, not stirred

I'll take my ninja like always, shimmed, not stirred

[choneofakind]

[Jiggles]

So I did a GPS test to see how accurate my speedo is. I've always felt like my speedo was pretty accurate on the 250 (my 650 is way off) and I was right. At 60 indicated I'm really at 58. At 62 indicated I'm at 60. I'm too lazy to go back and edit my video but I'd imagine this would add about .2 seconds to all my times making my fastest time 6.56 seconds.

[choneofakind]

^^ this makes me think that maybe we should change the error from ±0.5 seconds to ±0.25 seconds.

[Alex]

That error factor is only for that bike, though. It's closer to 4-5 mph off on my bike at 60 mph FWIW.

[choneofakind]

True. So now Jiggles' runs can be considered more accurate.

I think a quarter of a second would cover that 5 mph though, as long as you're shooting for the corrected speed, not an indicated 60

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

True. So now Jiggles' runs can be considered more accurate.

I think a quarter of a second would cover that 5 mph though, as long as you're shooting for the corrected speed, not an indicated 60

To give you an idea chode, my pregen was way more off, like, significantly noticeable just like my 650. But on my newgen 250 I feel like its accurate, a big discrepancy between the two. I'd go test it but my dad has the keys.

And for my error I was using 0.1 seconds per mph so 2mph off = .2 seconds, for you at 5mph off it would be .5 seconds, though we have no idea if this is accurate at all lol

[THE BIG SITT]

I'm sure this is discussed elserwhere, but I haven't found it. Anywho, how are you guys launching? Just reving it to XXXXrpms and dumping the clutch? Sorry, immasupernube

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

chode

curse you @alex.s

Originally Posted by Jiggles

my pregen was way more off, like, significantly noticeable just like my 650. But on my newgen 250 I feel like its accurate, a big discrepancy between the two.

That's the thing. We know the speedo is about 8% hopeful on a pregen. We can correct for that. The trick is figuring out a fair error based on how far off the indicated readings from pregen a to pregen b to pregen c are.

It's a case of precision, not accuracy. Think darts; accuracy is hitting the bullseye, while precision is hitting the same spot again and again and again. accuracy can be corrected for as long as there is precision, but if there is no precision, we can't correct for the lack of accuracy. That's where the error comes in.

Originally Posted by trixter

Watch out for wheelettes. Yeah basically you find a nice safe area clear of traffic, rev it and let it go.

+1 if you want to play around with different rpms to launch at, you can do a few runs and figure out what works best.

side note: I love how "wheelette" is catching on