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Old December 1st, 2017, 09:54 PM   #1
randycastell
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Fork Brace

Thank you for considering and commenting on this: I had the idea of purchasing a US$32.00 fork brace made of 6065 aluminum designed to fit a Honda CB300R. I though I might have a bit of fun trying to make it fit the EX300. The fork tubes are same distance apart, but the diameter of the lower leg of the Honda fork is 57mm, while the Kawasaki fork's lower leg diameter is 60mm or 2 3/8". I purchased a hole saw for $10 and I'm going to clamp the fork brace up to a drill press and give it a go enlarging the capacity of the brace to accept the Ninja's forks. I'll have to remove a bit of material from the bottom of each inner side as well to clear the fender, but it won't be seen where I loose the black anodization as that area will face downward. I value your thoughts and opinions and appreciate your time. :-)
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Old December 1st, 2017, 10:13 PM   #2
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Oh dear. With nothing to center the hole saw, you'll have a lot of excitement. The only way it could work would be if you'd make plugs of aluminum to fill the holes, and clamp the brace tightly on them. Then the center drill of the hole saw could drill into the plugs. But there would still be a fair amount of chatter, to put it mildly.

A vertical mill and boring head would make it a relatively easy job. If you could find a small local machine shop, you might get a reasomable quote.
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Old December 1st, 2017, 10:40 PM   #3
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No way you’re gonna be able to do clean centered cut with hole-saw!
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Old December 1st, 2017, 11:22 PM   #4
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If your going to try to do this without a proper machine shop I would forgo the hole saw and look for a 60mm Step bit or "uni-bit" it will be much less wild and should self center.
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Old December 2nd, 2017, 06:44 AM   #5
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The real question is...

Why?

Aside from the sheer farkle factor, will it offer any benefit?

Sure the Ninjette's forks aren't the stoutest but complaints of undue flexing are not exactly rampant.
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Old December 2nd, 2017, 07:03 AM   #6
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Quote:
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If your going to try to do this without a proper machine shop I would forgo the hole saw and look for a 60mm Step bit or "uni-bit" it will be much less wild and should self center.
That might work if Randy puts shims in the adjustment gaps and tightens the bolts. Amazon has an off-brand step bit that goes up to 60mm for under $30.

I agree that the brace isn't going to do much to help, especially since it has large cutouts and won't be terribly stiff in the twisting mode that it needs to be stiff in.
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Old December 2nd, 2017, 07:22 AM   #7
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FYI: any misalignment of that hole will result in that brace attempting to misalign your forks.

Think about this. The fork tubes are supposed to be parallel. The lowers ride up and down on the uppers and have bushings and seals for low friction movement. If you get this brace even slightly wrong (we're talking small numbers of thousandths of an inch here, there's very very little allowable slop in fork bushings) you're going to add a ton of friction to the motion of your fork, potentially even binding it up. It all just depends on how far off your hole is. These aren't 40 year old forks that had slop in them in the first place.

As someone who used to run a fork brace... it doesn't really make that much difference for a street rider, it adds friction if it's not 1000% perfect, and you're going to be better to buy one that's purpose built for your bike if you absolutely are intent on ignoring us and still want one.

You're better off spending the $$$ (remember that your hours of labor are worth something, how much is up to you) on emulators to make the suspension better, rather than attempting to hack a fork brace up for negligible benefit or likely even causing more problems than anything.

If you still want to go through with this... find a local machine shop and let them do it. Take the forks in, let them take measurements, and then they can make sure that the hole is enlarged without making an eccentric hole and/or misaligned hole and/or the wrong diameter hole and/or a tapered hole. It has to be right.
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Old December 2nd, 2017, 07:40 AM   #8
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Thank you so much for your valued opinions. Fortunately I do have a somewhat proper metal shop (I do architectural fabrication for a living- I make stuff) and a decent drill press that will allow me to precisely clamp the fork brace in positions that will give me exact boring. The pilot drill will be indexed to the center of each 60mm hole if you will, drilling into steel support substrate and nothing shall change as I remove material at slow rpms with good lubrication. I Promise. :-) I think I can achieve the tolerances require to keep the forks parallel. Thank you again for your valued thoughts and opinions. I will certainly keep the thread updated.
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Old December 2nd, 2017, 07:58 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adouglas View Post
The real question is...

Why?

Aside from the sheer farkle factor, will it offer any benefit?

Sure the Ninjette's forks aren't the stoutest but complaints of undue flexing are not exactly rampant.
actually it helps out quite a bit.
your forks will finally act a unit. i rode with one on a zrx1200. you will notice a difference.
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Old December 2nd, 2017, 09:11 AM   #10
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Keep us posted please. In my experience, a drill press is nowhere near rigid enough for this job, especially if you're really going to try to use the hole saw.
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Old December 2nd, 2017, 03:50 PM   #11
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Keep us posted please. In my experience, a drill press is nowhere near rigid enough for this job, especially if you're really going to try to use the hole saw.
Will someone explain the advantages of a fork brace? Is it an attempt to keep the front forks parallel at all times? Do I need one on a street bike? Dunno.

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Old December 2nd, 2017, 05:39 PM   #12
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To find out if you might need a fork brace, stand in front of a motorcycle and clamp the front tire between your knees. Then wiggle the handlebar back and forth with a fair amount of force, watching the fork tubes. If you can wiggle the bar while keeping the tire still, you're twisting the fork tube as a pair. A good brace will stiffen this up a lot. A well made fender bracket will also.

Since it started out as a dirt bike, my little DT100 didn't have a fender mounded on the sliders, and I could twist the tubes a lot. I made a very effective brace that increases the rigidity of the assembly so that it moves maybe 1/4 of the amount it did without the brace. My H2, with its steel fender and fender bracket, is relatively stiff without an additional brace.

Here's the simple one I made for the DT100, that mounts to the previously empty fender bosses: (recognize the caliper?)
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Old December 2nd, 2017, 06:20 PM   #13
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Havenít looked at my 300 yet. But my old 250 had a heavy metal fender mount / fork brace from the factory.
Never felt any twist when I ditched it.
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Old December 2nd, 2017, 06:53 PM   #14
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Quote:
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To find out if you might need a fork brace, stand in front of a motorcycle and clamp the front tire between your knees. Then wiggle the handlebar back and forth with a fair amount of force, watching the fork tubes. If you can wiggle the bar while keeping the tire still, you're twisting the fork tube as a pair. A good brace will stiffen this up a lot. A well made fender bracket will also.

Since it started out as a dirt bike, my little DT100 didn't have a fender mounded on the sliders, and I could twist the tubes a lot. I made a very effective brace that increases the rigidity of the assembly so that it moves maybe 1/4 of the amount it did without the brace. My H2, with its steel fender and fender bracket, is relatively stiff without an additional brace.

Here's the simple one I made for the DT100, that mounts to the previously empty fender bosses: (recognize the caliper?)
Thanks. I get it. I don't think I push my Ninja hard enough to be concerned about it. I will say the Ninja has a very stout steel brace holding up the ABS fender. I suppose one could sister two steel front fender support braces together and have a pretty decent fork brace.

No, the caliper doesn't look familiar.

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Old December 2nd, 2017, 07:39 PM   #15
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The caliper is the same one that's stock on a Ninja 250.
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Old December 3rd, 2017, 12:20 AM   #16
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The caliper is the same one that's stock on a Ninja 250.
When I first responded I referenced the service manual. Now I just looked at my 2007 and you're right. The service manual shows a different caliper and it's mounted on the left fork leg. Go figure.

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Old December 5th, 2017, 06:25 PM   #17
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Not sure what it would offer for you, guys that race don't use anything like that very often, many times they are not even legal to have.
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Old December 5th, 2017, 08:08 PM   #18
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Comparing my race bike vs. street bike yields a lot of clues about a lot of things.One thing I've noticed is that the street-bike tends to be softer and more noodly. But neither has fork-brace other than factory bracket for fender.

The race-bike is solid-feeling at maximum-braking from 100mph. And its turn-in at 100mph is precise and smooth. I'm not sure a fork-brace would do much for it.

The difference? I suspect soft factory fork-springs and damping allows too much movement while cornering with my 85kg mass! First step I'd do is replace the factory oil with 10-15wt and add some preload to spring. That alone should keep the mid-turn wobbles at bay. It's not that fork-blades are moving unevenly, they both just move too much for my weight under spirited riding.

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Old December 5th, 2017, 10:28 PM   #19
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The scales read kg in SF?
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Old December 6th, 2017, 01:01 AM   #20
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The scales read kg in SF?
He doesn't want you to know he weighs 187.39 lbs.

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Old December 6th, 2017, 05:52 AM   #21
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The scales read kg in SF?
I am more amazed that his 250 does 100 mph!
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Old December 6th, 2017, 09:18 AM   #22
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I am more amazed that his 250 does 100 mph!
As indicated by my speedometer I can pull 100 M.P.H. (just barely) in 6th anytime.

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Old December 6th, 2017, 10:20 AM   #23
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The scales read kg in SF?
Quote:
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He doesn't want you to know he weighs 187.39 lbs.

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SSshhh.....

Target is 68-70kg for next season. Weight-savings on bike is getting extremely costly.
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Old December 6th, 2017, 11:26 AM   #24
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I am more amazed that his 250 does 100 mph!
Quote:
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As indicated by my speedometer I can pull 100 M.P.H. (just barely) in 6th anytime.

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heh, heh...

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+5.7hp = +20% more power than stock

At beginning of season, I was barely reaching 90mph at end of straight @ Thunderhill (on calibrated Trailtech Vapour dash). By end of season with mods trickling in, I'm hitting 100mph. Sometimes little more with tow. Although I think getting 5mph faster drive out of T15 really helps.
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Old December 6th, 2017, 11:33 AM   #25
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Iíve got gps data of Dangit doing 106 into 10a at Rd Atlanta.
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Old December 6th, 2017, 04:32 PM   #26
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Iíve got gps data of Dangit doing 106 into 10a at Rd Atlanta.
Was the bike modified?

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Old December 6th, 2017, 04:36 PM   #27
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Was the bike modified?

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WERA FSS legal
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Old December 6th, 2017, 04:38 PM   #28
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WERA FSS legal
Are jetting and exhaust modifications allowed?

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Old December 6th, 2017, 05:08 PM   #29
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I've got GPS data of 100+ as well. Nothing more than a Yoshi exhaust, Snorkel delete, and Jet shims. I am 230 in full gear.
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Old December 6th, 2017, 05:17 PM   #30
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I've got GPS data of 100+ as well. Nothing more than a Yoshi exhaust, Snorkel delete, and Jet shims. I am 230 in full gear.
Oh, it's a new-gen. Mine's a 2007. Interesting. Thanks.

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Old December 6th, 2017, 05:30 PM   #31
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Are jetting and exhaust modifications allowed?

Bill
We were on an 09 then. Yes jetted on a dyno, area P exh, air filter panel, keep snorkel, gearing, Good suspension and tires.
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Old December 6th, 2017, 05:40 PM   #32
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We were on an 09 then. Yes jetted on a dyno, area P exh, air filter panel, keep snorkel, gearing, Good suspension and tires.
Thanks.

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Old December 6th, 2017, 07:15 PM   #33
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Looking at those tracks, I am now curious to see if my bike could break 100 on the track.
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Old December 6th, 2017, 09:19 PM   #34
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Looking at those tracks, I am now curious to see if my bike could break 100 on the track.
You don't need a-lot of strait-a-way to see 100. This Spring I'm going to try it in 5th gear. I pull an indicated 100 in 6th with 15/42 gearing and top out at 10K R.P.M. I really don't care about top speed it's just for giggles and a measure of how well my bike is running.

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Old December 7th, 2017, 12:46 AM   #35
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I see a lot of spec-sheets on ZZR-250 showing a 110 mph top-speed. Isn't that the same engine?
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Old December 7th, 2017, 03:23 AM   #36
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I see a lot of spec-sheets on ZZR-250 showing a 110 mph top-speed. Isn't that the same engine?
None of the body or chassis parts are interchangeable with a pre-gen. I think the compression ratio is 12:1. The cam cover (cylinder head cover) appear to be the same. Dunno.

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Old December 7th, 2017, 06:14 AM   #37
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You don't need a-lot of strait-a-way to see 100. This Spring I'm going to try it in 5th gear. I pull an indicated 100 in 6th with 15/42 gearing and top out at 10K R.P.M. I really don't care about top speed it's just for giggles and a measure of how well my bike is running.

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I did this years ago, bike was completely stock back then.

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did this 4 years ago:
Elevation in that area is around 1620ft.
now my elevation is between 3200 and 5500

ok folks the study is done and the numbers are in.
using my GPS and glancing down at the speedo:
this is what i did i road each gear up to the rev limiter, except 6th, I didnt feel the need to push it much more then i already had, and it is not worth risking my job.
Gear GPS/Speedo
1st: 36.1/40
2nd: 51.9/56
3rd: 65.5/70
4th: 80.0/86
5th: 93.4/100
6th: 99.1/105
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Old December 7th, 2017, 06:55 AM   #38
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I did this years ago, bike was completely stock back then.
Very interesting. Size of main jet?

Thanks,

Bill
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Old December 7th, 2017, 11:21 AM   #39
JacRyann
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Gear GPS/Speedo
1st: 36.1/40 -> +11%
2nd: 51.9/56 -> +7.9%
3rd: 65.5/70 -> + 6.9%
4th: 80.0/86 -> +7.5%
5th: 93.4/100 -> +7.1%
6th: 99.1/105 -> +6.0%
I've always wondered about this non-linear offset. After all, the speedo is mechanically linked to the front wheel, so shouldn't the offset be the same percentage all the way up? Then I realized that speedo needle is magnetically driven against wound-spring. So it's likely that the offset can be non-linear; the spring gets tighter and tighter as its wound-up, require more and more force for each incremental movement..
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Old December 7th, 2017, 08:14 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Ram Jet View Post
Very interesting. Size of main jet?

Thanks,

Bill
What ever stock is.
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