"RACE" rear brake reservoir delete?

[garth285]

Anyone on here run just a small clear tube for the rear brake reservoir on their 250?

Wondering what size is the stock line so I can find the right tube.

Anyone?

Kinda like this:

[sharky nrk]

McMaster has Tygon tubing in various sizes.

[garth285]

Yeah I've found that Tygon tubing a few places, wondering what size I'll need

[LittleRedNinjette]

Maybe a dumb question but what are the advantages of doing this? Is it just something for the track? Obviously it looks better but i thought you needed that thing?

[sharky nrk]

I think its 1/4 or 6mm ID but honestly I am not sure 100%

[garth285]

I'm doing it for weight and space savings really.

Does not give you any real performance gains just a cosmetic mod.

[sharky nrk]

Originally Posted by LittleRedNinjette

Maybe a dumb question but what are the advantages of doing this? Is it just something for the track? Obviously it looks better but i thought you needed that thing?

ideally its a packaging thing and tiny weight savings

[garth285]

Originally Posted by sharky nrk

I think its 1/4 ID but honestly I am not sure 100%

I may stop by my welder and measure it on the bike there, looks like most kits are 6mm or 8mm or 1/4" or 5/16"

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by LittleRedNinjette

Maybe a dumb question but what are the advantages of doing this? Is it just something for the track? Obviously it looks better but i thought you needed that thing?

the brake master cylinder only pushes a small amount of fluid into the caliper with each stroke of the lever. about a quarter of that hose in that photo. the extra fluid in the reservoir is for a few different reasons, the biggest being redundancy. if you get a small leak, you have extra fluid so your brakes will work for a little longer so you can actually stop the vehicle to fix the leak.

race bikes are typically maintained extremely well so something like a brake line leak due to old hoses or something typically will just not happen. and so extra fluid is not needed, or wanted because of its extra weight. most racers also don't use their rear brakes very much.

plus it looks ****ing ****. i mean look at that. even blue fluid.

[jkv45]

Most OEM systems uses a rubber diaphragm/gasket under the cap that moves with the fluid (so there's not a temporary vacuum in the reservoir) without letting air into the system.

If you had an vented cap you would be drawing air into the tubing as the fluid level dropped (every time you used the brake), which would expose the fluid to moisture from the air. Probably not a problem if the fluid is changed regularly, but something to consider.

If you didn't have a vented cap, the tubing would have to flex temporarily as the fluid level dropped, leaving a vacuum inside the tubing. I'm not sure if that would cause a problem with the brake action or not.

[garth285]

Hey @Racer x is this legal for the Ohio Mile?

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by jkv45

I'm not sure if that would cause a problem with the brake action or not.

only long term i would think as the pads wore down the fluid would go down and create a larger vacuum. but if you keep it topped off as the pad wears down it shouldn't be an issue i would think

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by garth285

I'm doing it for weight and space savings really.

I dunno. Looks kind of redneck to me.

Weight savings? Really? Are you also going to leave your tire valve caps off?

Space savings? Has anyone ever (and I mean EVER) had interference issues with regard to brake components on these bikes?

[garth285]

I'm not running a front brake on the bike if that helps figure out what kind of weight savings I'm looking at lol.... every bit helps!

This is a land speed bike not a track bike or street bike.

Many many many people run this setup on other bikes. Just trying to figure out what size I need.

[garth285]

Also my intake charge pipe going from the turbo to my plenum is titanium :-) lol

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by adouglas

I dunno. Looks kind of redneck to me.

Weight savings? Really? Are you also going to leave your tire valve caps off?

Space savings? Has anyone ever (and I mean EVER) had interference issues with regard to brake components on these bikes?

Yeeee Hawww...

Bottom line, one less thing to break or be in the way. Yep, depending on the rear shock, the hs/ls damping adjustment knobs would be behind the res mount. I had to move Floki's out other way to turn his hs damping just this weekend.

If I ever have a problem with mine, I will not fix it. I will just delete it.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by alex.s

only long term i would think as the pads wore down the fluid would go down and create a larger vacuum. but if you keep it topped off as the pad wears down it shouldn't be an issue i would think

Every time you use the brake the fluid level will move down temporarily as you pressurized the brake system.

As the piston in the master cylinder moves to apply pressure to the brake system it will draw fluid in from the reservoir. When you release the brake pressure the fluid moves back.


From the link below -

"As with the rear plunger, it too sucks fluid from the reservoir until the first circuit rear seal passes the fluid intake and return port (again about 1.5mm), trapping fluid between it and the front of the master cylinder. This fluid is then forced out into the first brake circuit, applying those brakes.
When you take your foot off the brakes, the return springs push the plungers back into their neutral position. Fluid returns to the brake fluid reservoir and the system goes back to an unpressurised state."

Read more: http://www.carbibles.com/brake_bible...#ixzz3Is6z8Rie

[Racer x]

Originally Posted by garth285

Hey @Racer x is this legal for the Ohio Mile?

Yes. No problem there. And you don't need front brakes at all. Up to 175 mph.

Just remember the break fluid absorbes moisture. The system needs to be sealed yet there needs to be a diaphragm that allows the fluid to move. Or just change the fluid all the time. That's what I do.

[garth285]

Perfecto......

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by jkv45

Every time you use the brake the fluid level will move down temporarily as you pressurized the brake system.

As the piston in the master cylinder moves to apply pressure to the brake system it will draw fluid in from the reservoir. When you release the brake pressure the fluid moves back.


From the link below -

"As with the rear plunger, it too sucks fluid from the reservoir until the first circuit rear seal passes the fluid intake and return port (again about 1.5mm), trapping fluid between it and the front of the master cylinder. This fluid is then forced out into the first brake circuit, applying those brakes.
When you take your foot off the brakes, the return springs push the plungers back into their neutral position. Fluid returns to the brake fluid reservoir and the system goes back to an unpressurised state."

Read more: http://www.carbibles.com/brake_bible...#ixzz3Is6z8Rie

you seem to be explaining this to me when i explained this in the message above that you probably didn't read. but as the pad wears down the cylinder in the caliper has to extend further out, this requires the caliper be filled with more fluid than it would have been at the start of the pad life.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by alex.s

you seem to be explaining this to me when i explained this in the message above that you probably didn't read. but as the pad wears down the cylinder in the caliper has to extend further out, this requires the caliper be filled with more fluid than it would have been at the start of the pad life.

What you stated is true (pads wearing - I read it) but that takes time.

The issue I'm describing is happening any time you use the brake.

Do you see my point?

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by jkv45

What you stated is true (pads wearing - I read it) but that takes time.

The issue I'm describing is happening any time you use the brake.

Do you see my point?

i guess it sounds like i missed the part about where the fluid returns to the res....

i've only built one brake system from scratch so lets just describe the entire process for our collective education, yeah?

you have some fluid which is hard to compress. you want to push on something. you use a pump (master cylinder) to push that fluid (which you temporarily store in a brake fluid reservoir) into a tube (brake line) which hopefully wont expand much. that tube is connected to a bigger tube (caliper). that bigger tube has basically a plug in it (caliper piston). so when you pump fluid into that bigger tube as if the bigger tube was a balloon, the plug tries to push out. the more fluid you push into that bigger tube, the more pressure there will be on that plug trying to leave that tube. that plug then pushes on the brake pads which push on the brake rotor which slows you down or whatever. depending on the type of pump (master cylinder) you use to pressurize the cylinder, it may self-return with a spring, have passive return (the leftover fluid pressure pushes the pump back), or even have a mechanical stop to keep it where you set it. some are even controlled by electronics. for a basic rear brake on a motorcycle, you typically only have one caliper and one master cylinder but there are all sorts of different setups. the most common being two calipers on a splitter per master cylinder, or for cheap cars, one tandem res master cyl going into a splitter and then two ratio controls to get to all 4 wheels, but whats weird about cars is they are split cross-wise instead of front/back. so one system has the front left and right rear and the other has the front right and left rear. as you use up brake pad, the brake pad gets thinner, this means you need to push it out further. because the big cylinder (caliper) is fairly large compared to the small cylinder (master cylinder), it can take several times the volume of the small cylinder to move the large cylinder very much. this is why over the lifetime of the pads you need to add fluid into the system (from the brake fluid reservoir), because the fluid needs to physically take up more space inside the caliper to push the piston out far enough to have the pads touch when they are at the end of their lifetime.

what's cool about most car-style brake reservoirs is they are actually tandem in the sense that it looks like one and acts like one when its full, but if one system drains, it is actually two separate bottles inside (a bottle without a top inside the main bottle) so that if one of your systems leaks all the fluid out it doesn't take the fluid from the other system, but you don't have to confuse the drivers by having two fluid reserviors when "Theres only one brake pedal!"


did i get anything wrong?

[garth285]

OK OK OK, you two go get a room.....

Who can tell me the ID of a stock hose going from the master cyl to the reservoir

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by garth285

OK OK OK, you two go get a room.....

Who can tell me the ID of a stock hose going from the master cyl to the reservoir

Get a room? I thought you'd suggest getting into The Ring. We seem to spar regularly...

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by jkv45

We seem to spar regularly...

wat?

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by alex.s

wat?

Spar

1.
a. To fight with an opponent in a short bout or practice session, as in boxing or the martial arts.
b. To make boxing or fighting motions without hitting one's opponent.
2. To bandy words about in argument; dispute
3. To fight by striking with the feet and spurs. Used of gamecocks.
n.
1. A motion of attack or defense in boxing.
2. A sparring match.

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by LittleRedNinjette

Maybe a dumb question but what are the advantages of doing this? Is it just something for the track? Obviously it looks better but i thought you needed that thing?

I ran into issues with where to put the rear brake reservoir when I was fiddling around with my pregen and raising the pegs. I ended up deleting the rear brake light switch to make room for the reservoir. You don't need it so long as you have something that has the brake fluid in it. I like this setup quite a bit since it allows for more freedom of movement though I'm more worried about the reservoir splitting in a crash and pouring brake fluid all over the track screwing everyone else over. It can be used for street as well but there isn't really any advantage there that I can think of other than looking sleeker.

Originally Posted by adouglas

Space savings? Has anyone ever (and I mean EVER) had interference issues with regard to brake components on these bikes?

I have, but that was while trying to turn the pregen into a track bike, something that I'm not really done with yet.

[alex.s]

and here i thought a spar was the main longitudinal beam of an airplane wing.

[garth285]

OK well after searching and searching Kurveygirl.com does have the cheapest Tygon 5/16 tubing unless you want to buy 50 foot of it at $150 a roll lol

Its $8.50 shipped for 1 foot of tube which depending on how much tube you want you and a buddy can go in on it and it will be dirt cheap.

Link to 5/16" line: http://www.kurveygirl.com/shop/produ...roducts_id=280

Also you will need the Honda plug for the end of it which is Honda part # 17370-419-700
I found one on ebay for $4.62 shipped

Link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-17370-...91152a&vxp=mtr

So if you buy two of those and 1 foot of line and only use 6" for two kits it will come out to $8.87ea.

Or you can go to your dealer and see how much the caps are which is what I'm going to do.

Enjoy.

[cbinker]

Originally Posted by LittleRedNinjette

Maybe a dumb question but what are the advantages of doing this? Is it just something for the track? Obviously it looks better but i thought you needed that thing?

The reservoir gets in the way of my heal when riding, I might have to look into this.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by adouglas

I dunno. Looks kind of redneck to me.

Weight savings? Really? Are you also going to leave your tire valve caps off?

Space savings? Has anyone ever (and I mean EVER) had interference issues with regard to brake components on these bikes?

I have a Yoshimura exhaust hanger and rear set adjusters. My reservoir would have to move up and back quite a bit to avoid a horrible kink in the line. I also have my brake line looped over instead of being tied to my swing arm thanks to a Sportisi hugger. I think this is a nicer solution that will increase visibility of my hugger and Sportisi undertail while eliminating the kink.

[adouglas]

I too had rearset adjusters and an AreaP full exhaust with hanger. of the issues you cite, only the need to loop the brake line itself manifested. No problem with the reservoir or its hose.

BTW, PSR engineering makes a trick little reservoir about the size of a lipstick tube. Their site says it's only for Hondas, though.

[bruce71198]

Originally Posted by garth285

OK well after searching and searching Kurveygirl.com does have the cheapest Tygon 5/16 tubing unless you want to buy 50 foot of it at $150 a roll lol

Its $8.50 shipped for 1 foot of tube which depending on how much tube you want you and a buddy can go in on it and it will be dirt cheap.

Link to 5/16" line: http://www.kurveygirl.com/shop/produ...roducts_id=280

Also you will need the Honda plug for the end of it which is Honda part # 17370-419-700
I found one on ebay for $4.62 shipped

Link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-17370-...91152a&vxp=mtr

So if you buy two of those and 1 foot of line and only use 6" for two kits it will come out to $8.87ea.

Or you can go to your dealer and see how much the caps are which is what I'm going to do.

Enjoy.

I use vinyl tubing from the local Ace Hardware store. Only draw back is that it gets cloudy after a few seasons.

[garth285]

Yeah I did that to, I have seen the HRC kits last for years though and I believe its the same Tygon tubing.

I ordered 1 foot @ $8.25 shipped and 3 Honda plugs @ 1.83 a pop (my cost) so I'll have some spares for other bikes.

[crazymadbastard]

I think leaving it sealed versus vented has the benefit of helping retract the
caliper with the vacuum created, thereby reducing drag at the pads/disc.

[SlowBoyRacing]

If you are looking for the full HRC kit, you can get them through here > https://www.motomillion.com/products...oir-delete-kit

[HoneyBadgerRy]

Originally Posted by garth285

I'm not running a front brake on the bike if that helps figure out what kind of weight savings I'm looking at lol.... every bit helps!

This is a land speed bike not a track bike or street bike.

Many many many people run this setup on other bikes. Just trying to figure out what size I need.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weight has nothing to do with top speed.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by HoneyBadgerRy

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weight has nothing to do with top speed.

Only how fast you get there.

[HoneyBadgerRy]

Originally Posted by jkv45

Only how fast you get there.

I have never tried LSR, but I would think they would give you plenty of time to get up to speed. Certinally enough that you wouldn't be sinking money into titanium.