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Old December 10th, 2018, 07:07 AM   #81
jkv45
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You'd be surprised at how well an 11 year old carbed 250 car run when properly tuned.

I wouldn't stop at acceptable. Do a carb sync and fine adjustment of the idle mixture and go from acceptable to optimum.
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Old December 10th, 2018, 11:22 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
You'd be surprised at how well an 11 year old carbed 250 car run when properly tuned.
My 2005 Ninja 250 is the newest vehicle I own, and they all run very well.
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Old December 10th, 2018, 01:34 PM   #83
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What a bunch of geezers! I like going out at 6am with temps in 30s and pushing start-button on my bike and have it Vrrrooom to life in less than 1 crank. Then being able to hop on and ride off without single hiccup in less than 15-seconds after that (how long it takes to put helmet & gloves on). I'm converting my 250 to EFI this winter so it will be civilised!

Carefully check rubber boots between engine & carb. They can have small cracks (or loose clamps) that will suck in extra air and cause temperamental idle.

Also do compression-test, you may have worn-out rings and/or valves that can cause difference between cylinders; resulting in lumpy idle.

Run a bottle of PEA-based cleaner through 2-tanks of gas (1/2 each). Such as Techron Concentrate or Red Line SI-1. Then repeat compression-test and see if there's improvement.
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Old December 10th, 2018, 01:42 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
What a bunch of geezers! I like going out at 6am with temps in 30s and pushing start-button on my bike and have it Vrrrooom to life in less than 1 crank. Then being able to hop on and ride off without single hiccup in less than 15-seconds after that (how long it takes to put helmet & gloves on). I'm converting my 250 to EFI this winter so it will be civilised!
Hey - I resemble that comment!

I didn't know you had "winter" in SF. Anything is possible out there I guess...
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Old December 10th, 2018, 04:21 PM   #85
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Heh, heh... it's occasionally normal here...



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Old December 12th, 2018, 01:49 PM   #86
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Video

So I had a chance to fire it up cold this morning and just as I dreaded (but expected) it ran horrible. I shot a quick video which shows the initial start up.

I had the choke open and still had to gently give it a tiny bit of throttle so it wouldn't stall, but not too much or it would bog out. Towards the end of the video you can see I close the choke and it doesn't help, in fact it stalls.

After the video, I kept helping it along with the choke open and once it reached almost normal operating temperature it idled and ran just fine.

Other than the idle speed adjustment, I haven't touched the carbs since their servicing.

Barring someone pointing out a smoking gun, I'll do a carb sync next week. If that doesn't fully resolve the issue I plan to slap on the fairings and list it over the Christmas break.

Here's a link to the video so you can see her in all her shi**y splendor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOCl6hj-5M0
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Old December 12th, 2018, 02:06 PM   #87
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I could be wrong, but it looks like you didn't have the lever fully in the start position anywhere in the video (lever all the way toward you). Then you put it back to the warm-run position while it was still cold.

Also, there's an easy to adjust knob for idle speed adjustment down by the carb on the left side, so you can adjust that to raise the idle speed any time you need to.

These little engines normally warm up in the 1,500 to 3,000 rpm range, not chugging along at 1,000.
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Old December 12th, 2018, 02:21 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
I could be wrong, but it looks like you didn't have the lever fully in the start position anywhere in the video (lever all the way toward you). Then you put it back to the warm-run position while it was still cold.

Also, there's an easy to adjust knob for idle speed adjustment down by the carb on the left side, so you can adjust that to raise the idle speed any time you need to.

These little engines normally warm up in the 1,500 to 3,000 rpm range, not chugging along at 1,000.
The lever was all the way forward, I'll double check the linkage to make sure everything is sitting right.

As for the idle speed knob, I set it when the bike was up to temperature a couple days ago. One shouldn't have to advance the idle with this knob every time it's started cold.

And yes, in the video I did close the choke when it was still cold, understandably it cut out.
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Old December 12th, 2018, 02:27 PM   #89
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All the way forward is the warm-run position, no enrichment. When you start it cold, it will need to be toward you.

The idle speed knob is there for a reason. Depending on conditions, you may need to adjust it. I occasionally make an adjustment to mine, especially if it's cold out.

You're saying you "closed the choke", which implies you enriched the mixture, but I think you meant the opposite, as in "closed the enricher plungers".
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Old December 12th, 2018, 02:35 PM   #90
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Right, towards me when starting it cold, away once it's at temp.
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Old December 12th, 2018, 02:46 PM   #91
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Use enough choke to keep the revs about 2000 to 2500 for a minute or so, then back it down as much as possible while still keeping the RPMs over the normal idle speed of 1300.

It's no surprise it won't idle cold without any "choke". Use the choke to keep it running when it's cold.

You are getting close. Sync the carbs and adjust the idle mixture and you should be good unless there are other issues - but I don't see any right now.
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Old December 12th, 2018, 02:59 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
I could be wrong, but it looks like you didn't have the lever fully in the start position anywhere in the video (lever all the way toward you). Then you put it back to the warm-run position while it was still cold.

Also, there's an easy to adjust knob for idle speed adjustment down by the carb on the left side, so you can adjust that to raise the idle speed any time you need to.

These little engines normally warm up in the 1,500 to 3,000 rpm range, not chugging along at 1,000.
Just confirmed, linkage/cable is properly installed and actuated by lever.
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Last futzed with by dodgerdad; December 12th, 2018 at 02:59 PM. Reason: typo
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Old December 12th, 2018, 03:00 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
Use enough choke to keep the revs about 2000 to 2500 for a minute or so, then back it down as much as possible while still keeping the RPMs over the normal idle speed of 1300.

It's no surprise it won't idle cold without any "choke". Use the choke to keep it running when it's cold.

You are getting close. Sync the carbs and adjust the idle mixture and you should be good unless there are other issues - but I don't see any right now.
Well that's the problem (now), it won't idle above 1000 when cold...
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Old December 12th, 2018, 03:02 PM   #94
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I'm still not sure you're getting the lever all the way toward you when starting. In the video it was not all the way, but as I said, maybe you had it there earlier. The last part will really raise the idle.

edit: I just checked the video again. At the very beginning, the starter lever was not all the way toward you, which explains why is was running so slowly.
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Old December 12th, 2018, 04:43 PM   #95
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I'm still not sure you're getting the lever all the way toward you when starting. In the video it was not all the way, but as I said, maybe you had it there earlier. The last part will really raise the idle.

edit: I just checked the video again. At the very beginning, the starter lever was not all the way toward you, which explains why is was running so slowly.
Skeptically, I went out there and made sure the choke lever was all the way towards me, and it started. It won't idle past 1300 (when cold) unless I play with the accelerator, which is weird because after a few seconds you usually have to push the lever back a bit so it's not revving too HIGH while it warms up.

At any rate, you were right about the lever, thanks. I think I'll have time Friday or Saturday to do the sync.
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Old December 12th, 2018, 07:42 PM   #96
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What's ambient temperature there when you started bike for video?

When it's below 45F here, mine won't even start with choke full-on. It'll spin for 5-revs, then stop. I have repeatedly start it over and over again. After 6th time, it'll stay on, put-put-putting around 200-rpms for about 2-minutes.

After that it picks up and stays at about 1000-rpms for about a minute. Then it goes up to 2000-2500rpms after another minute. So about 4-minutes of choke before I can release choke 1/2-way and ride off.
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Old December 12th, 2018, 10:25 PM   #97
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Quote:
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What's ambient temperature there when you started bike for video?

When it's below 45F here, mine won't even start with choke full-on. It'll spin for 5-revs, then stop. I have repeatedly start it over and over again. After 6th time, it'll stay on, put-put-putting around 200-rpms for about 2-minutes.

After that it picks up and stays at about 1000-rpms for about a minute. Then it goes up to 2000-2500rpms after another minute. So about 4-minutes of choke before I can release choke 1/2-way and ride off.
It was 59 degrees when I did the video.
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Old Yesterday, 04:14 PM   #98
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at around the 35 second mark, you should begin *sequentially* backing off the choke, while applying throttle.

Prior to that in the video...I'm hearing an engine favoring 1 cylinder over the other.

By the one minute mark you should have been OFF the choke and ON some throttle, till it wants to idle on its own with no throttle input at all.

i'm thinking you need to up the idle adjustment a bit.

Where does it idle at when warmed?

You earlier stated you performed a valve adjustment, what were your findings?
And solutions? You are SURE you performed checks at the precise cam positions?
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