high rpms?

[EngrNewf]

So in the manual it states the following about shifting
gear : km/h
1st->2nd : 20
2nd--3rd : 25
3rd->4th : 30
4th->5th : 40

Should I go by this? switching to 5th when I'm going 40 seems a little low..

So I was in 5th going 70km/h and found that my revs were about 60. In the manual it says keep it under 4-6 for breakin period. But how am I suppose to go the speed limit :S

So to sum it up, how on earth should I ride this thing? What rpms should I stay in when going 50km/h-70km/h? And about when should I be changing gears?

[HA-Y-N NINJA]

HELL NO! Ride it like you want to ride it! When i want to get going from 1st, i don't shift until 13RPM which is the rev limiter!! So GO FOR IT!!

[DarkNinja52]

Originally Posted by EngrNewf

So in the manual it states the following about shifting
gear : km/h
1st->2nd : 20
2nd--3rd : 25
3rd->4th : 30
4th->5th : 40

Should I go by this? switching to 5th when I'm going 40 seems a little low..

So I was in 5th going 70km/h and found that my revs were about 60. In the manual it says keep it under 4-6 for breakin period. But how am I suppose to go the speed limit :S

So to sum it up, how on earth should I ride this thing? What rpms should I stay in when going 50km/h-70km/h? And about when should I be changing gears?

I've been trying to figure out the same thing.
what i've been doin is just shifting up when the engine wants me to, based on the sound it makes.
Havent needed to go past 5th yet because of the damn streets around here have stop signs everywhere.
Thats just what i've done but i would really like to hear what some experienced riders have to say.

[EngrNewf]

Originally Posted by HA-Y-N NINJA

HELL NO! Ride it like you want to ride it! When i want to get going from 1st, i don't shift until 13RPM which is the rev limiter!! So GO FOR IT!!

But isn't that hard on the engine?

Originally Posted by DarkNinja52

I've been trying to figure out the same thing.
what i've been doin is just shifting up when the engine wants me to, based on the sound it makes.
Havent needed to go past 5th yet because of the damn streets around here have stop signs everywhere.
Thats just what i've done but i would really like to hear what some experienced riders have to say.

What sound does it make (give me a note or something). I've never ridden a bike or standard until now so I'm not use to engine noises. What is the recommended rpm?

[sombo]

Riding it rev limit every time can be hard on the motor, yes. However, following the factory idea of break in is in major debate with many mechanics saying it's worse for you motor then running it hard for short burst in the beginning. Honestly I think the mechanics make the strongest argument about how the higher pressure of running it hard forces the piston rings to seat properly in the cylinder creating a better seal which helps the motor over it's lifetime.

Also our motors are made to be pushed hard at high revs. All their power is between 9-12k rpms. I'm gonna guess that this might be your first manual transmission?

The way I ride my bike depends on the traffic and how fast I need to accelerate. If everything is going kinda slow I usually shift around 4-6k and just relax. If the traffic is moving a bit fast I'll wait a bit longer till about 8-9k. And then if traffic is really moving I'll use the bikes power and wait till about 11k or so to shift (usually only on the highway).

The best advice is to just find the riding style that's comfortable for you. Don't worry about hurting the engine by running it above the factory suggestions, they are practically bullet proof.

[EngrNewf]

This is my first manual and my first bike I've ever driven. When you say there's more power near readlining what does that mean exactly. You accelerate faster? I find myself getting up to speed really slowly. What would I do to correct that, change gears at a higher rpm?

[sombo]

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. Engines create most of that power at certain RPM's. Our engines were designed to deliver their greatest power in the 9-12k range of RPM's. If you need to accelerate really quick (like getting on the highway) you're going to need to use the bikes fullest power. To do that get the bike up to about 11k before you shift and work on shifting quickly and smoothly.

The way I started working on my shifting was to bring the bike to about 8-9k and try shifting to the next gear as quickly as I good without letting the engine rev high and without getting the jerking motion letting you know you were too low in revs. The reason I started at that level was to keep it from going red line if I didn't let off the gas fast enough and because it was high enough to let me know when I let off too much. The goal is to have a smooth transition from gear to gear without having any high revving or jerking motion.

[kkim]

http://www.ninjette.org/wiki/Break-in

[AnarchoMoltov]

When I was breaking in, I would shift around 6k, that means at 40 mph you'd already be in 6th gear....I did this for awhile, then I said F#@% it, and I started driving it the way I wanted 2....

[DarkNinja52]

Originally Posted by EngrNewf

What sound does it make (give me a note or something). I've never ridden a bike or standard until now so I'm not use to engine noises. What is the recommended rpm?

I'm not sure, It just sounds like the engine is struggling and gets louder, but i don't seem to be going any fast

Originally Posted by sombo

Also our motors are made to be pushed hard at high revs. All their power is between 9-12k rpms. I'm gonna guess that this might be your first manual transmission?

The way I ride my bike depends on the traffic and how fast I need to accelerate. If everything is going kinda slow I usually shift around 4-6k and just relax. If the traffic is moving a bit fast I'll wait a bit longer till about 8-9k. And then if traffic is really moving I'll use the bikes power and wait till about 11k or so to shift (usually only on the highway).

So to keep up with speeding traffic (merging highway or turning onto a main road) shift at higher rmp's?

Originally Posted by EngrNewf

This is my first manual and my first bike I've ever driven. When you say there's more power near readlining what does that mean exactly. You accelerate faster? I find myself getting up to speed really slowly. What would I do to correct that, change gears at a higher rpm?

Same here, first bike/manual transmission of any sort.
i can't seem to get up to speed at a decent rate either.
I spent the past few hours on my bike trying to figure out what im doin wrong to keep up with traffic. maybe i just need to roll on the throttle more, i might be afraid to roll on too much, .. how much is too much?

[P1NDLESK1N]

Originally Posted by DarkNinja52

So to keep up with speeding traffic (merging highway or turning onto a main road) shift at higher rmp's?

I know the pregens love those high RPMs, mine lives around 10,000 RPMs.

I'm sure your newgen will have that same love.

[DarkNinja52]

so lets say im at a stop light and traffic usualy runs about 45 -55mph on that street, when the light changes i should stay in first until about 9/10k rmps, then the same for second third etc...? until i reach the speed limit of course
i just want to be able to tap into the bikes acceleration power, i cant seem to reach those types of speed limits without taking some time

[noche_caliente]

that's what I do not the best for gas mileage, but if I need to get somewhere in a hurry, I don't worry about that as much

[OldGuy]

Well here we go again with the how to break it in "war". You will find as many opinions on how to break your new kid in as there are riders. Kelly gave you a good link to go read and think about.

Bottom line is there are only a few basic rules you should worry about during the first few hundred miles; DON'T take it to the red line, don't bog it down, and don't take short multiple short rides around the block. DO go for nice rides keeping your rpm's in the 6-8 k range for what ever speed you are going, vary your speed/rpm, using engine braking (Close the throttle and let the engine compression slow you down), and most important ENJOY your new bike.

Before too long you will start thinking about your oil changes and that will bring in a whole new list of do's and don't and your engine will blow up stories. Do change it frequently during the first 1200 miles or so (I did mine at 100, 500, 1000 and went full synthetic at 1500) and use good filters. I use the NAPA Gold PS4941 (if my memory is right). Many have said a big NO to FRAM including a person that used to work for them.

Have fun and remember - ATGATT

[DarkNinja52]

Sounds good, thanks Don.

So I just went for a 40 minute ride around the neighborhood to play around with rpm's and shifting, and since i've never used a manual transmission before, i've been kinda clueless. but i think it finally hit me while i was riding (figuratively, i wasnt actually hit by anything ). higher rpms in 1st... means more power when you shift to second, which means you'll accelerate much quicker than if you had lower rpms (lower power) then shifted, because the second gear requires more power than the first, so if you shift with low rpms, the engine will need to work harder on the next gear because you didn't build enough power up in the gear before.

i've understood how transmissions work and such, but never really applied it to accelerating on a bike.

as for breaking in the bike,.. obviously don't red line it, but heres my theory:
there's a ton of idiots out there, and im sure they don't know how to break in a bike any better than i do, but i've yet to hear a story that goes "so i didn't break in my bike the right way and my engine blew up"
so as far as im concerned, with a little bit of common sense , i don't think one can "break in a bike the wrong way" (assuming the common sense is directed towards the bike and riding). i think Don's post supports this in a sense.

but if in some time from now, i come back on here a post a thread called
"i broke in my bike the wrong way" then disregard this whole post.

[EngrNewf]

Yeah I'm not so much worried about the breaking in rules, I'm kinda just wondering how everyone else rides in general. What's good, what's not etc

[sombo]

Yes, as for getting the most acceleration out the ninjette you will NEED the higher RPM's just like you do in a car. All engines ever made make their peak power at certain RPM ranges and ours is no exception.

So in order to accelerate quickly in ANY vehicle you need to use it at it's highest power. To do that you need to keep the engine in the RPM range that it generates it's highest amount of power.

[DarkNinja52]

Originally Posted by sombo

Yes, as for getting the most acceleration out the ninjette you will NEED the higher RPM's just like you do in a car. All engines ever made make their peak power at certain RPM ranges and ours is no exception.

So in order to accelerate quickly in ANY vehicle you need to use it at it's highest power. To do that you need to keep the engine in the RPM range that it generates it's highest amount of power.

haha yea, im not very mechanical lol, not so good with these types of things, but i catch on eventually..... sometimes

through all of my nonsense i was trying to answer EngrNewf's question about when to shift and such

I would like to hear some details from other people's riding/shifting techniques, so if anyone does anything differently than whats been mentioned here, or even if its the same as what we already mentioned, i would like to hear it.
and if anyone has comments on the manual saying when to shift like this
1st->2nd : 20 km/h
2nd--3rd : 25
3rd->4th : 30
4th->5th : 40
which in my opinion also does seem kind of slow

[Alex]

Those recommended shift points in the manual do seem quite low to me; I certainly don't ride that way. If I'm accelerating, the tach is always between 8K and 12K. Only time that the motor shows less than 8K is if I've already reached my target speed for that particular situation, and have shifted all the way to top gear and am just cruising (no longer accelerating).

[P1NDLESK1N]

[VeX]

I thought, "Didn't I see a similar thread to this elsewhere?!"

As I said before, try to focus on RPM, rather then speed/gear. If you're accelerating HEAVILY shoot for 90% of your red-line (in this case about 11,500-12,000 RPM). For moderate cruising aim for 50%-60% (6,500-7,500 RPM) and when cruising try to keep it above 5,000 RPM That's a general guideline that works with any engine IMO

[sombo]

Originally Posted by VeX

I thought, "Didn't I see a similar thread to this elsewhere?!"

As I said before, try to focus on RPM, rather then speed/gear. If you're accelerating HEAVILY shoot for 90% of your red-line (in this case about 11,500-12,000 RPM). For moderate cruising aim for 50%-60% (6,500-7,500 RPM) and when cruising try to keep it above 5,000 RPM That's a general guideline that works with any engine IMO

That's almost exactly what I was trying to advise, thanks for a more detailed layout. That's pretty much how I run my bike as well. If traffic is slow I shift early due to not needing alot of power to accelerate at the speed of traffic. If the traffic is a bit faster then I'll shift later to compensate. And if I need to get up to speed quickly for things like highway on ramps then I rev it out to it's power band exactly like you laid out in your post.

[CodE-E]

My exhaust is so loud that in urban areas I keep my revs under 6000 pretty much all the time. I don't want the cops to stop me.

Also, lower revs means lower fuel consumption. When I'm cruising through town, I mostly don't need my engines full power. Apparently an engine will also have a shorter life if it's always working at high RPMs. Only keeping it at low RPMs apparently isn't good, either though. Luckily there are lots of great country roads around where I live, so my Ninja gets lots of healthy exercise across the whole RPM spectrum on the weekends.

[DarkNinja52]

Originally Posted by VeX

I thought, "Didn't I see a similar thread to this elsewhere?!"

As I said before, try to focus on RPM, rather then speed/gear. If you're accelerating HEAVILY shoot for 90% of your red-line (in this case about 11,500-12,000 RPM). For moderate cruising aim for 50%-60% (6,500-7,500 RPM) and when cruising try to keep it above 5,000 RPM That's a general guideline that works with any engine IMO

Sounds good

I feel like even at moderate cruising levels cars will accelerate quicker than I do and either be right on my rear or far gone. Should i accelerate hard in 1st and 2nd and then just use the 50 -60% rule? or should i be okay if i do 50 -60% in first and second also? because i havent heard of anyone doing a half and half technique.

[ninjabrewer]

I'm going to throw my in here. But it may, and I emphasize may, not help or it might be confusing. IMHO, it is difficult to describe how to drive/ride a manual shift vehicle, whether car or bike. When I was teaching my daughter to drive, she learned to drive on a standard. The car had a tach so I also referred her to that as we were driving. (Many years ago, manual cars didn't have a tach and you had to shift by speed, "feel" or "sound" and that took some hands on experience.) It takes some time with you riding your bike to figure out when to shift. My daughter had to drive to figure it out. I taught her what the car sounded like and did when she was lugging the engine and what she had to, or when she was really reving it up, accelerating, upshifting/downshifting, etc. So she got hands on with the sound effects and the "seat of the pants feel."

With my driving style, and everybody's is different, in town going to work on roads with a speed limit of around 40-45 mph, I shift around 6k and do it in such a way that by the time that I hit 6th, I am at the speed I want to go, the speed limit. Here I am going for gas milage, it was mentioned earlier that lower revs will lower your fuel consumption. There are many traffic lights here and if I see that the next is already red or changing, I'll just coast in whatever gear I am in till I have to stop. Getting on the freeway is a different story all together. I'll shift at higher revs, 10k or so, to get as much acceleration as possible on the on-ramps so that when I get to the fast moving traffic, I am almost at speed and still have a gear or 2 to go. That way I have some reserve left to merge with the traffic and get in the flow.

Since this is your first manual transmission vehicle, it will take some time to learn and get the feel of it. It helps if you have somebody with experience around to help you figure the little nuances out. I enjoy driving a standard much more than an automatic, and now that she has learned, my daughter does also. She drove an automatic car once and hated it.

I hope this helps and is not confusing. The big thing to remember is don't give up and keep riding. With experience, you will become a better rider and shifting will become second nature.

nb

[DarkNinja52]

i found it pretty helpful, its just nice to hear peoples opinions and why they do things. helps add information so it becomes possible to make your own decisions and form your own opinions.

im not sure if the OP is still interested but this is definitely helping me a ton. im just trying to figure out what gears to be in and what rpms to be in when im in different situations, such as a street full of stop signs, or merging onto a parkway. im about to take the bike out into some faster traffic (45 -55 mph) as opposed to my side streets 25 - 35.

while im practicing i keep everything in mind that i read here and see if it works for me. not gona know until i try it, right? I really appreciate the help and idk where i would be if it weren't for this forum still interested in other opinions so feel free to add.

to the OP, if you want this to go in a different direction please say something. from the looks of it, it seemed we were having the same problem and i just wanted some more information on it.

[Talonne]

Originally Posted by sombo

So in order to accelerate quickly in ANY vehicle you need to use it at it's highest power. To do that you need to keep the engine in the RPM range that it generates it's highest amount of power.

This explains a lot. My bike is brand brand new, and I took it out for the first 2 times ever yesterday. I was trying to accelerate up to 80 km/h and my boyfriend (on his GS500f) totally left me in the dust! I guess now I know that was due to my trying to follow the 4000rpm break-in limit and shifting way too early.

I still feel really iffy about cranking the engine up to 9000rpm on the first couple days of use though. :S

[DarkNinja52]

i know what you mean, but i got my bike a few weeks ago and put about 250 miles on it and started getting it up to about 9k rpm around 150 miles, im sure the bike will be fine as long as i dont red line it, im just not sure when to change the oil, prob wait for the first service

[Talonne]

Ah, oil changes... Something else for me to worry about. I really need to get me some mechanical skills, otherwise I'm going to be paying out the nose.

[DarkNinja52]

yea i know that feeling, what ive decided to do is put all my effort towards learning to ride and i'll deal with the mechanical things one at a time when they come around. my choke lever is a bit out of what - doesnt work fully unless the handle bars are all the way to the right. so i might have a mechanic look at that or figure out where i can get a cheap service manual and take a look myself (i found a read only one online)

[EngrNewf]

Hey everyone. Thanks for all the great posts. I wanted to take the bike for a couple spins before I posted again. Unfortunately I don't know anyone who can take me out in a standard. So you guys will have to due! So I'm usually staying between 4-7 now. And I'm getting a lot better feel for it, and yeah, I accelerate a lot quicker and have no problem keeping up with traffic. Thanks for all your help.

Though even up around 7 it's really high pitched. I didn't try higher then that. Will that pitch lower as the engine gets more 'wear'. That's the first time I've had it up that high and I'm kind of thinking of it as a lathe, eventually there will be less metal grinding off, so I figured it won't sound so strained...

Darkninja, thank for your comments as well, because I had similar questions

[sombo]

Originally Posted by Talonne

This explains a lot. My bike is brand brand new, and I took it out for the first 2 times ever yesterday. I was trying to accelerate up to 80 km/h and my boyfriend (on his GS500f) totally left me in the dust! I guess now I know that was due to my trying to follow the 4000rpm break-in limit and shifting way too early.

I still feel really iffy about cranking the engine up to 9000rpm on the first couple days of use though. :S

The bike will be perfectly fine by taking it to 9k rpm that early. There is some debate on the proper method of break in for the 250. However, most agree that the manufacturer's suggestion is closer to being wrong then being right. One rider/mechanic in particular named motoman shared his opinion and knowledge gained from his experience in tearing apart motorcycle motors.

In his experiences he found that riders who followed the suggested break in had more engine problems later on then those who did what is usually referred to as a 'hard' break in. His suggestion is in the first 100 miles to run the bike hard into it's power band at least up to about 3rd and then let off the gas and let the engine slow you down (known as engine braking). What this does is put a lot of pressure on the piston rings forcing them to expand into the cylinder walls better in order to create a better seal. The tighter the seal between the piston rings and the cylinder walls the cleaner, stronger, and longer the engine will run.

The reason for that is that the piston rings block the engine oil in the lower parts of the motor from getting into the combustion chamber and being burned along with the gas. The better the seal the better this is prevented and the better for the engine.

After running it this way a few times up to the first 100 miles you should change the oil. Then ride it normal and change the oil again somewhere around 300 miles and then again at the regularly suggested servicing. This is to help clean out any metal shavings, dust, or dirt created. These early oil changes are critical to a long lasting problem free motor.

Having had to learn some physics in college for electronics I understand what he's saying and fully agree with his ideas for better engine break in. Also seeing pictures of his examples showing the wear on a piston heads comparing his hard break in method and the easy break in method helps lol. In his pictures the ones from engines using the easy break in were all black and corroded on top while those from the hard break in were much cleaner and showed less wear.

If you don't agree with his methods or don't think it's correct then by all means follow what ever method makes you feel most comfortable. This is your bike and it's completely up to you how you want to ride and care for it. Good luck in your adventures and take good care of your bike and it will take care of you.

[sombo]

Originally Posted by EngrNewf

Though even up around 7 it's really high pitched. I didn't try higher then that. Will that pitch lower as the engine gets more 'wear'. That's the first time I've had it up that high and I'm kind of thinking of it as a lathe, eventually there will be less metal grinding off, so I figured it won't sound so strained...

That high pitched sound is normal and won't ever go away. In fact it's a good thing for our bikes. The reason it doesn't sound right is because you're used to car engines with red lines at <7000rpm's. Remember, this engines rev as high as 14,000 revolutions per minute. That's extremely fast for an engine. The only car based motors that rev that high are Formula 1 cars. If you've ever watched or listened to F1 race cars you'll know they're extremely high pitched and screaming. Well guess what, same goes for our little ninjette. It was designed to be a high revving screaming little bike. Only thing you can do is come to the realization that the high pitch exhaust note is actually normal and a good thing for your bike.

[EngrNewf]

And it gives out good vibrations...

[sombo]

Originally Posted by EngrNewf

And it gives out good vibrations...

[Anteraan]

Originally Posted by sombo

That high pitched sound is normal and won't ever go away. In fact it's a good thing for our bikes. The reason it doesn't sound right is because you're used to car engines with red lines at <7000rpm's. Remember, this engines rev as high as 14,000 revolutions per minute. That's extremely fast for an engine. The only car based motors that rev that high are Formula 1 cars. If you've ever watched or listened to F1 race cars you'll know they're extremely high pitched and screaming. Well guess what, same goes for our little ninjette. It was designed to be a high revving screaming little bike. Only thing you can do is come to the realization that the high pitch exhaust note is actually normal and a good thing for your bike.

So true. When I first bought my Mazda 3, I rarely ventured above 4k rpm. I mean, the car moves along quite fine below that mark. However, since I've been riding the 250R, I find myself moving into the 5k band in the car fairly regularly. The 250R's engine really comes alive as you move up the rev range. After cruising at 8-9K for periods of time, it's no big deal. You won't even think about it. These engines are designed to take 10K+ comfortably and reliably.

Also, there are a couple harsh spots, where the engine feels a bit rough, but revving past those points smooths out the engine beautifully. By now I know my engine's "happy zones". <insert your own good vibration joke here>

Enjoy!

[sombo]

Originally Posted by Anteraan

So true. When I first bought my Mazda 3, I rarely ventured above 4k rpm. I mean, the car moves along quite fine below that mark. However, since I've been riding the 250R, I find myself moving into the 5k band in the car fairly regularly. The 250R's engine really comes alive as you move up the rev range. After cruising at 8-9K for periods of time, it's no big deal. You won't even think about it. These engines are designed to take 10K+ comfortably and reliably.

Also, there are a couple harsh spots, where the engine feels a bit rough, but revving past those points smooths out the engine beautifully. By now I know my engine's "happy zones". <insert your own good vibration joke here>

Enjoy!

Oh good, was starting to think it was just my bike that ran rough in the mid-range RPM's. For some reason my bike doesn't run all that smooth from 5-7k most of the time. Rev past it up to 8k+ and it's perfectly fine and happy. In fact you can feel a bit of a jump in power when it gets up to 9k. The engine and bike just come to life when you get it up to the 9-12k range. you'll feel a noticeable difference in acceleration when you get it into that range.

[noche_caliente]

Originally Posted by EngrNewf

And it gives out good vibrations...

now that song is stuck in my head As for the high-pitched sound, it only gets better... I now love the sound when I'm up near the red line!

[DarkNinja52]

Originally Posted by sombo

That high pitched sound is normal and won't ever go away. In fact it's a good thing for our bikes. The reason it doesn't sound right is because you're used to car engines with red lines at <7000rpm's. Remember, this engines rev as high as 14,000 revolutions per minute. That's extremely fast for an engine. The only car based motors that rev that high are Formula 1 cars. If you've ever watched or listened to F1 race cars you'll know they're extremely high pitched and screaming. Well guess what, same goes for our little ninjette. It was designed to be a high revving screaming little bike. Only thing you can do is come to the realization that the high pitch exhaust note is actually normal and a good thing for your bike.

At first I wasn't comfortable giving the bike some throttle. Just started off a little bit at time, but after a few days practice i'm gettin the rpms up to 9k - 10k then shifting and giving it some throttle and goin back up to 9k and the acceleration is great and the bike seems to be very content at those rpms.

Now i just need to work on slowing down when Im at speed, kind of afraid of locking up the wheels or not being able to stop fast enough, although bikes stop in a relatively short time. I accidently down shifted at some mid range rpms because i was slowing down but forgot to check the engine speed... i shifted into first. Really wish I had thought that through better because I was about inches away from flying forward over the windscreen.

Originally Posted by EngrNewf

And it gives out good vibrations...

I'm not even sure what to say to that, or what I shouldn't say.

[sombo]

See, all it takes is a little bit of practice and you'll be able to push the ninjette to the limits.

Good example of that is what I was doing tonight with my muscle car friends. They know of a spot that's more or less set up for 1/4-mile in one of the more industrial parts of town where we can do some street racing late saturday night. Well I ran against a modded Grand Prix GTP that's supposedly running into the upper 12's lower 13's. They estimate I was about 2 seconds behind him, and that's with me not yet knowing how to get a good launch.

I also ran against my friend's 1985 mustang gt and was like maybe less then a car length behind him at the end. So these bikes are not slow in any sense. You just have to work at getting that acceleration out of them.

Glad to hear you're having fun learning just what the ninjette is capable of. I agree that you should also work on the slowing down part. Probably work on that more so lol.