Need help removing front sprocket (countershaft)

cb160racer · March 10th, 2011, 07:37 PM

Bought a 15-tooth JT countershaft sprocket, but what should have been a 10-minute job has so far taken hours and I've gotten nowhere. I simply cannot get the stock sprocket off the countershaft! That baby seems to have been torqued on at the factory to about 900 foot-tons, which is insane because there's really no particular reason for it. Many bikes don't even use a fastener on that sprocket, just a big E-clip in a groove, because the sprocket is splined and it only needs to be prevented from moving laterally and coming off the shaft if the chain is too loose.

Does anyone have any useful tips or tricks to get it off? I've used copious amounts of liquid wrench + time, I've tried heating the nut with a 1500-watt hair dryer, and I've tried using a 4' pipe as a lever on the wrench handle. So far all I have to show for the effort is a smashed finger. Why is it so tight? I even wondered for a while if it's maybe a left-hand thread or something, although there's no marking.

kkim · March 10th, 2011, 07:55 PM

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10273

wayanlam · March 10th, 2011, 08:05 PM

almost everyone who has done the front sporcket change has had one hellavatime getting it off it seems! taking it on with poles and blocks of wood, haha...

i remember that there was a decent DYI on replacing the front sprocket, but i never get anywhere using the search option on this forum. someone else might remember the link, but i think you are doing what the other people have... using extension poles to increase leverage.

put a piece of wood through the back wheel and rest it on the swing arm, that prevents the sprocket from turning when you try and remove it.

from the manual:

makes it look a lot easier than it actually is i believe, lol!

good luck~

wayanlam · March 10th, 2011, 08:06 PM

KKIM to the rescue! hes got amazing linking powers....

randomwalk101 · March 10th, 2011, 08:25 PM

I tried the breaker bar method for exactly 10 seconds and said no way. So I pulled out my air impact gun and zipppp. Exactly 0.75821 of a second and it's out

slolane · March 10th, 2011, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayanlam

KKIM to the rescue! hes got amazing linking powers....

x2 of that!

Following that link the wood block method was good, then I had my son hold the front brake and stand on the rear brake at the same time, I then just used a 2' torque wrench. I have done 4 of these so far, 2 were easy, 2 pretty hard. Making sure the washer is flat is a must, then put some weight behind it.

Alex · March 10th, 2011, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slolane

Making sure the washer is flat is a must

Make darned sure that the washer isn't keeping it from rotating before putting ass-tons of force through the breaker bar.

kkim · March 10th, 2011, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

Make darned sure that the washer isn't keeping it from rotating before putting ass-tons of force through the breaker bar.

heh, heh... you said ass-tons.

wayanlam · March 10th, 2011, 11:38 PM

do they still air beavis and buthead these days?... seems like something i haven't seen in like a decade!

cb160racer · March 11th, 2011, 12:25 PM

Thanks for the additional info, gang. I didn't want to make my initial post even longer than it already was, so I didn't mention that I had already done a search of the forum to see if there were any threads about it. I also made damn sure the washer was pounded completely flat all the way around, I locked the rear brake and stuck a piece of oak through the rear wheel, I blocked both front and rear wheels with 4x4s, and I used a 4' length of pipe for leverage. In short, I've done this sort of thing many times before and tried everything I could think of before asking for help. It was so puzzling why it would be so tight that I thought perhaps there's some sort of trick involved.

I don't have an impact wrench, and my compressor is too small to use one anyway. The bike is pretty well apart so there's no easy way now to take it to a shop to use theirs.

Oh well, I'll just keep at it. Thanks again for the speedy replies and the information. At least I know it's not just me now!

cb160racer · March 23rd, 2011, 07:36 PM

Update: Finally got that sucker off, but it took literally HOURS of effort. Heated the nut until it was too hot to touch several times; used an impact driver and an 8-pound sledge hammer over and over until I began to have serious worries about damaging the bike, alternating with breaker bar plus 4' pipe extension.

I still cannot imagine why in the world the sprocket nut is torqued so tight. Maybe some poor schlub in the factory got in trouble because he wasn't tightening them enough, so he adjusted his air wrench to maximum? "This one goes to eleven!"

Anyway, if someone comes along behind me and searches the forum for countershaft sprocket nut, be aware that you need a really stout 27mm 1/2" drive socket, a 200 ft-lb impact driver and/or breaker bar plus long extension for leverage, a heat gun, and a 2x4 to lock the rear wheel. Mostly, know that it isn't you! That mofo is REALLY on there! I've been working on my own cars and bikes for over 40 years, and that nut was the tightest one I can ever remember encountering. It's still completely puzzling to me as to why. It doesn't make any obvious mechanical sense.

Alex · March 23rd, 2011, 08:14 PM

Good on you for sticking with it! That's about the stoutest one I've heard.

cb160racer · March 23rd, 2011, 09:06 PM

I must admit that at one point I was tempted to take a friend's advice to get out the Dremel and a handful of diamond wheels! Can't remember being so stymied by such a simple job. Oh well, once that stinkin' 27mm nut finally came loose it was a matter of maybe 3 minutes to replace the sprocket.

spencerkro · March 23rd, 2011, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randomwalk101

I tried the breaker bar method for exactly 10 seconds and said no way. So I pulled out my air impact gun and zipppp. Exactly 0.75821 of a second and it's out

I used my dewalt electric impact and it took about the same time.

cb160racer · March 23rd, 2011, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spencerkro

I used my dewalt electric impact and it took about the same time.

Most of my garage jobs provide the opportunity to buy more tools, but I couldn't justify an electric impact gun for this. And my little air compressor wouldn't run an air wrench, so I was stuck with my wits and various lengths of pipe.

spencerkro · March 24th, 2011, 02:10 AM

I highly recommend (cordless) electric impact guns! Worth every penny.. they pay for themselves in the first couple of projects the amount of time they save.

randomwalk101 · March 24th, 2011, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cb160racer

Most of my garage jobs provide the opportunity to buy more tools, but I couldn't justify an electric impact gun for this. And my little air compressor wouldn't run an air wrench, so I was stuck with my wits and various lengths of pipe.

You mentioned you have been fixing stuffs for 40 years. May be year 41 is a good time to upgrade some tools

CZroe · April 8th, 2011, 09:39 AM

Good ol' Duckie uses hand tools with no help:

Link to original page on YouTube.

Pat Ninjettski · October 25th, 2012, 08:55 PM

I broke my ratchet extension piece inside my 3/8" to 1/2" adapter. still don't have it off

Pat Ninjettski · October 25th, 2012, 09:07 PM

Update! I just broke the ratchet

. I'm calling it a night lol

menikmati · October 25th, 2012, 10:04 PM

I used a cheap electric impact wrench from Harbor Freight, worked like a charm.

mike_k · October 26th, 2012, 07:50 AM

A small air compressor will probably work fine as long as the hose is big enough. I use one of these along with an air impact gun to change my front and rear sprockets, and never had trouble getting the front sprocket nut off:

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-3-gal...p-00915310000P

The small coiled yellow plastic hose that comes with it won't work with an impact gun, but a normal size 3/8" hose works fine.

CZroe · October 26th, 2012, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by menikmati

I used a cheap electric impact wrench from Harbor Freight, worked like a charm.

Same here. I got their 12v "emergency" one with a 20% off coupon and powered it off the bike's battery. Used it the next weekend to help someone change to a spare at work. Used it again along with the Harbor Freight tire changer when someone in the neighborhood needed help changing a tire.

It seems to work well enough for lug nuts and Ninjette sprockets, no air compressor or outlet required. Doesn't include metric impact sockets though.

Pat Ninjettski · October 26th, 2012, 09:08 AM

Here is a picture of the extension piece (right) and the ratchet (left) that I broke last night. Twisted the ends right of both of them.

dino74 · October 26th, 2012, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by menikmati

I used a cheap electric impact wrench from Harbor Freight, worked like a charm.

I spent an hour with breaker bar and got nowhere.

10 seconds with a HF 1/2 impact wrench is all it took

broilmebk · October 29th, 2012, 09:38 AM

+1 for impact wrench. I went and bought this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Kawasaki-84133...pr_product_top
My favorite purchase so far.
Like CZroe said though, it didn't come with metic sockets, so I had to buy those separate.

dino74 · October 29th, 2012, 09:58 AM

Just remember you should use impact sockets with an impact wrench.

http://www.hotbikeweb.com/tech/1001_...hrome_sockets/

alex.s · October 29th, 2012, 11:40 AM

if you think the pinion bolt is hard, try the clutch hub bolt! it would be impossible without an impact wrench

broilmebk · October 29th, 2012, 03:58 PM

Ah yes, what dino said

Ramen · October 30th, 2012, 07:05 PM

I used a breaker bar from a Harbor Freight 1/2" metric set with a 3 foot length of iron pipe from Lowe's as a cheater bar.

Came off fine.

Bassman · October 30th, 2012, 07:26 PM

I feel your pain. I just did it a few weeks ago. Breaker bar + 2x4 in wheel = zip. My el' cheapo air impact wrench wouldn't even take it off. I broke down and bought a new one with 650 ft/lb torque and <poof> right off. I thought for a second they welded it on.

londor · November 7th, 2012, 11:39 AM

Relatively tough. VW rear axle nuts-275 ft.lbs. (Bus are like 290)
3/4 drive breaker bar can break before the nut turns.
Now those are tough bastards!

alex.s · November 7th, 2012, 12:04 PM

300 ftlbs?! wtf

headshrink · November 10th, 2012, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spencerkro

I highly recommend (cordless) electric impact guns! Worth every penny.. they pay for themselves in the first couple of projects the amount of time they save.

+1

As I've mentioned in prior posts, I will no longer risk using a breaker-bar on the input or output shafts...... "totaled" my first engine this way.

ChaoSS · November 11th, 2012, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by headshrink

+1

As I've mentioned in prior posts, I will no longer risk using a breaker-bar on the input or output shafts...... "totaled" my first engine this way.

What happened?

CZroe · November 11th, 2012, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoSS

What happened?

It bent. I do wonder if something like that is why my bike eats through chains so badly.

headshrink · November 11th, 2012, 08:16 PM

It's possible the damage was actually to the shaft bearings, but I didn't dive in far enough to check. At this point I had surpassed my comfort and competence level.... or lack there of.

kevlar250 · November 11th, 2012, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat Ninjettski

Here is a picture of the extension piece (right) and the ratchet (left) that I broke last night. Twisted the ends right of both of them.

That was obviously one of those "SnapOff" brand wrenches!

March 10th, 2011, 07:37 PM	#1
cb160racer ninjette.org newbie Name: Craig Location: Sunnyvale, California Join Date: Jul 2010 Motorcycle(s): My wife says "too many" Posts: 7	Need help removing front sprocket (countershaft) Bought a 15-tooth JT countershaft sprocket, but what should have been a 10-minute job has so far taken hours and I've gotten nowhere. I simply cannot get the stock sprocket off the countershaft! That baby seems to have been torqued on at the factory to about 900 foot-tons, which is insane because there's really no particular reason for it. Many bikes don't even use a fastener on that sprocket, just a big E-clip in a groove, because the sprocket is splined and it only needs to be prevented from moving laterally and coming off the shaft if the chain is too loose. Does anyone have any useful tips or tricks to get it off? I've used copious amounts of liquid wrench + time, I've tried heating the nut with a 1500-watt hair dryer, and I've tried using a 4' pipe as a lever on the wrench handle. So far all I have to show for the effort is a smashed finger. Why is it so tight? I even wondered for a while if it's maybe a left-hand thread or something, although there's no marking. __________________________________________________ Craig Sunnyvale, California

March 10th, 2011, 08:05 PM	#3
wayanlam ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Wayan Location: Bali - Indonesia Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2014 Z250 Posts: A lot.	almost everyone who has done the front sporcket change has had one hellavatime getting it off it seems! taking it on with poles and blocks of wood, haha... i remember that there was a decent DYI on replacing the front sprocket, but i never get anywhere using the search option on this forum. someone else might remember the link, but i think you are doing what the other people have... using extension poles to increase leverage. put a piece of wood through the back wheel and rest it on the swing arm, that prevents the sprocket from turning when you try and remove it. from the manual: makes it look a lot easier than it actually is i believe, lol! good luck~ __________________________________________________ Kawasaki Z250, Bored up to 300cc with 12.8 CR, 41hp at wheel 27nm torque, Two bros full exhaust with DB killer Dynojet Power Commander V, KnN Open filter, intake and exhaust ported, Puig Windshield

March 10th, 2011, 08:06 PM	#4
wayanlam ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Wayan Location: Bali - Indonesia Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2014 Z250 Posts: A lot.	KKIM to the rescue! hes got amazing linking powers.... __________________________________________________ Kawasaki Z250, Bored up to 300cc with 12.8 CR, 41hp at wheel 27nm torque, Two bros full exhaust with DB killer Dynojet Power Commander V, KnN Open filter, intake and exhaust ported, Puig Windshield

March 10th, 2011, 11:38 PM	#9
wayanlam ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Wayan Location: Bali - Indonesia Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2014 Z250 Posts: A lot.	do they still air beavis and buthead these days?... seems like something i haven't seen in like a decade! __________________________________________________ Kawasaki Z250, Bored up to 300cc with 12.8 CR, 41hp at wheel 27nm torque, Two bros full exhaust with DB killer Dynojet Power Commander V, KnN Open filter, intake and exhaust ported, Puig Windshield

March 11th, 2011, 12:25 PM	#10
cb160racer ninjette.org newbie Name: Craig Location: Sunnyvale, California Join Date: Jul 2010 Motorcycle(s): My wife says "too many" Posts: 7	Thanks for the additional info, gang. I didn't want to make my initial post even longer than it already was, so I didn't mention that I had already done a search of the forum to see if there were any threads about it. I also made damn sure the washer was pounded completely flat all the way around, I locked the rear brake and stuck a piece of oak through the rear wheel, I blocked both front and rear wheels with 4x4s, and I used a 4' length of pipe for leverage. In short, I've done this sort of thing many times before and tried everything I could think of before asking for help. It was so puzzling why it would be so tight that I thought perhaps there's some sort of trick involved. I don't have an impact wrench, and my compressor is too small to use one anyway. The bike is pretty well apart so there's no easy way now to take it to a shop to use theirs. Oh well, I'll just keep at it. Thanks again for the speedy replies and the information. At least I know it's not just me now! __________________________________________________ Craig Sunnyvale, California

March 10th, 2011, 07:55 PM	#2
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10273

March 10th, 2011, 08:25 PM	#5
randomwalk101 self wrencher Name: john Location: houston Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 250r and 07 600r Posts: A lot.	I tried the breaker bar method for exactly 10 seconds and said no way. So I pulled out my air impact gun and zipppp. Exactly 0.75821 of a second and it's out

March 23rd, 2011, 07:36 PM	#11
cb160racer ninjette.org newbie Name: Craig Location: Sunnyvale, California Join Date: Jul 2010 Motorcycle(s): My wife says "too many" Posts: 7	Update: Finally got that sucker off, but it took literally HOURS of effort. Heated the nut until it was too hot to touch several times; used an impact driver and an 8-pound sledge hammer over and over until I began to have serious worries about damaging the bike, alternating with breaker bar plus 4' pipe extension. I still cannot imagine why in the world the sprocket nut is torqued so tight. Maybe some poor schlub in the factory got in trouble because he wasn't tightening them enough, so he adjusted his air wrench to maximum? "This one goes to eleven!" Anyway, if someone comes along behind me and searches the forum for countershaft sprocket nut, be aware that you need a really stout 27mm 1/2" drive socket, a 200 ft-lb impact driver and/or breaker bar plus long extension for leverage, a heat gun, and a 2x4 to lock the rear wheel. Mostly, know that it isn't you! That mofo is REALLY on there! I've been working on my own cars and bikes for over 40 years, and that nut was the tightest one I can ever remember encountering. It's still completely puzzling to me as to why. It doesn't make any obvious mechanical sense. __________________________________________________ Craig Sunnyvale, California

March 23rd, 2011, 08:14 PM	#12
Alex ninjette.org dude Name: 1 guess :-) Location: SF Bay Area Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 7	Good on you for sticking with it! That's about the stoutest one I've heard. __________________________________________________ Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered)

March 23rd, 2011, 09:06 PM	#13
cb160racer ninjette.org newbie Name: Craig Location: Sunnyvale, California Join Date: Jul 2010 Motorcycle(s): My wife says "too many" Posts: 7	I must admit that at one point I was tempted to take a friend's advice to get out the Dremel and a handful of diamond wheels! Can't remember being so stymied by such a simple job. Oh well, once that stinkin' 27mm nut finally came loose it was a matter of maybe 3 minutes to replace the sprocket. __________________________________________________ Craig Sunnyvale, California

March 24th, 2011, 02:10 AM	#16
spencerkro ninjette.org member Name: United States Location: Iowa Falls, Iowa Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Ninja 250r Posts: 54	I highly recommend (cordless) electric impact guns! Worth every penny.. they pay for themselves in the first couple of projects the amount of time they save.

April 8th, 2011, 09:39 AM	#18
CZroe CPT Falcon Name: J.Emmett Turner Location: Newnan, GA Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 CP Blue EX250J, '97 unpainted EX250F, 2nd '97 unpainted EX250F (no engine), '07 black EX250F Posts: A lot.	Good ol' Duckie uses hand tools with no help: Link to original page on YouTube.

October 25th, 2012, 08:55 PM	#19
Pat Ninjettski New to Planet Ninja Name: Pat Location: Phoenix Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Posts: 9	I broke my ratchet extension piece inside my 3/8" to 1/2" adapter. still don't have it off

October 25th, 2012, 09:07 PM	#20
Pat Ninjettski New to Planet Ninja Name: Pat Location: Phoenix Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Posts: 9	Update! I just broke the ratchet . I'm calling it a night lol

October 25th, 2012, 10:04 PM	#21
menikmati crash 250, get supersport Name: Richard Location: San Diego, CA Join Date: Apr 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250R SE (Sold 6/9/14), 2009 ZX-6R (Sold 6/25/14), Subaru BRZ Posts: A lot.	I used a cheap electric impact wrench from Harbor Freight, worked like a charm.

October 26th, 2012, 07:50 AM	#22
mike_k ninjette.org member Name: Mike Location: Colorado Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): '08 Ninja 25 (track), '02 Honda 919, '04 Honda NSR-50 (track) Posts: 20	A small air compressor will probably work fine as long as the hose is big enough. I use one of these along with an air impact gun to change my front and rear sprockets, and never had trouble getting the front sprocket nut off: http://www.sears.com/craftsman-3-gal...p-00915310000P The small coiled yellow plastic hose that comes with it won't work with an impact gun, but a normal size 3/8" hose works fine.

October 29th, 2012, 09:38 AM	#26
broilmebk ninjette.org sage Name: Brian Location: Orange County, CA Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): '12 ninja 250r Posts: 762	+1 for impact wrench. I went and bought this one: http://www.amazon.com/Kawasaki-84133...pr_product_top My favorite purchase so far. Like CZroe said though, it didn't come with metic sockets, so I had to buy those separate.

October 29th, 2012, 09:58 AM	#27
dino74 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: dino Location: Oceanside, Ca Join Date: Nov 2010 Motorcycle(s): '09 250 Street, '09 250 Race, '13 300 Race Posts: A lot.	Just remember you should use impact sockets with an impact wrench. http://www.hotbikeweb.com/tech/1001_...hrome_sockets/ __________________________________________________ CVMA #55

October 29th, 2012, 11:40 AM	#28
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	if you think the pinion bolt is hard, try the clutch hub bolt! it would be impossible without an impact wrench __________________________________________________

October 29th, 2012, 03:58 PM	#29
broilmebk ninjette.org sage Name: Brian Location: Orange County, CA Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): '12 ninja 250r Posts: 762	Ah yes, what dino said

October 30th, 2012, 07:05 PM	#30
Ramen Frak It Name: Sean Location: SWFL Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: 199	I used a breaker bar from a Harbor Freight 1/2" metric set with a 3 foot length of iron pipe from Lowe's as a cheater bar. Came off fine.

October 30th, 2012, 07:26 PM	#31
Bassman ninjette.org guru Name: Marc Location: Castaic, CA Join Date: Sep 2011 Motorcycle(s): 1986 Goldwing, 1996 CR500, 2011 Ninja 250, 2009 Harley Heritage Softail, 1941 Suzuki Gerbil 250 Posts: 427	I feel your pain. I just did it a few weeks ago. Breaker bar + 2x4 in wheel = zip. My el' cheapo air impact wrench wouldn't even take it off. I broke down and bought a new one with 650 ft/lb torque and <poof> right off. I thought for a second they welded it on. __________________________________________________ I know there's a 7th gear here somewhere... Changing to 15T/41T, now I'll get that 7th gear, lol.

November 7th, 2012, 11:39 AM	#32
londor ninjette.org newbie Name: Alan Location: Burlingame,CA Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): kawasaki Posts: 4	Relatively tough. VW rear axle nuts-275 ft.lbs. (Bus are like 290) 3/4 drive breaker bar can break before the nut turns. Now those are tough bastards!

November 7th, 2012, 12:04 PM	#33
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	300 ftlbs?! wtf __________________________________________________

November 11th, 2012, 08:16 PM	#37
headshrink ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Bob Location: CA Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): '08 Ninja 250r, '14 CBR500r Posts: A lot.	It's possible the damage was actually to the shaft bearings, but I didn't dive in far enough to check. At this point I had surpassed my comfort and competence level.... or lack there of. __________________________________________________ Honda Interceptor VFR800 DLX (2014, 8th gen) Honda CBR500r (2014) - FOR SALE Kawi Ninja 250r (2008) - Restored and passed-down within family, only to be abandoned

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