CBR vs 636

[saxnbass]

Yes, another one of these threads. Also, sorry if this is in the wrong section, feel free to move if necessary.

So the 250 is probably going to get totalled by my insurance, meaning I will be in the market for a new bike. yay

The two I really have my eye on are the Honda CBR600rr (2007+) and the Kawasaki ZX6r 636 (2005-2006). If I could find a Daytona 675 for a similar price around here, I'd consider it too, but they are 1) hard to find and 2) more expensive when you can find one.

So, I've sat on both before and they both felt just fine and comfortable for me to sit on. I haven't ridden either one before though.



636 in either green or blue: I like the green just a smidge more than blue, but it's so hard to find matching gear in green; there's plenty of blue gear around.






My preference of CBR is the 07 White one, they're hard to find but I have located about 3 in the state:


I'd do a lot for a Leyla, but there is only one for sale in the state and the guy wants $10,000 for it; ridiculous




Obviously the CBR would be newer by a few years no matter what, since I'd only want the 07+ model, and the Kawi I'm looking at the 05/06. This shouldn't make much of a difference though right? Since they're both reliable and good motors and bikes.

Lastly, how much does it cost, on average, to have a sportbike repainted? Say if I find a slamming deal on a good 08 CBR in red, and want to repaint it a Leyla inspired scheme.


Oh, let's try to keep the Kawi Ninja bias out of this as much as possible please.

[LoD575]

My vote is the CBR.

[saxnbass]

Care to elaborate on why? The why's are what help in decision making.

[etiainen]

Get another 250

Or a CBR(I love Hondas)

[Alex]

How many miles on the 250?

[saxnbass]

I had 6,000 miles on the 250

On the group rides I went on that had nothing but 600s and 1000s (I was usually the only 250 except when vampyre was still on his 250), I was constantly pushing the 250 to its max. Keeping up or catching up in the straights. In the twists I would catch up to them if they got ahead a bit in the straights.

[LoD575]

Originally Posted by saxnbass

Care to elaborate on why? The why's are what help in decision making.

Honda builds a quality bike. Nothing may stand out as being "outstanding" but it does everything above average.

Plenty of reviews available on either bike to make an educated decision.

Painting cost varies by body shop and depends on how much prep work is needed along with paint color and any added touches.

I was able to spend about 45 mins on a '10 CBR 600RR cruising it around a closed off parking lot and the bike felt great and my body felt comfortable the entire time.

Hard to go wrong with either bike but I like the honda a little bit better. White looks the best IMO.

[alex.s]

get an sv650

[blink]

CBR isn't a championship bike =]

[Reswob]

The '06 636 is the only good looking ZX ever built, but the CBR still wins hands down.
Since this IS a Kawi forum, I'd expect a lot of bias, but if I had my choice of any of the big 4's bikes, it would be a CBR-600RR.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by blink

CBR isn't a championship bike =]

The CBR600 has won 7 of the last 10 World Supersport Championships, which is the top level of 600 production racing worldwide.

http://www.worldsbk.com/en/season/ch...SP&p_Anno=2012

Kawi hasn't won one since 2001...

[akima]

If it was me in your situation, I'd want to actually ride both bikes. I get the feeling they are both good quality machines, so I'd base my decision purely on two factors:
* How it looks
* How it felt when I rode it

I bet they have different slightly different geometry and one of them will fit you better than the other.

I justify my decision to partially base purchasing decisions on how a motorcycle looks based on what one of my instructors said. He said if you have a bike that you think looks nice, you'll be more inclined to keep it clean and well maintained and enjoy doing so.

[Boom King]

Originally Posted by blink

CBR isn't a championship bike =]

Uhh, not sure if serious? No other 600cc sportbike machine has won more magazine shoot-outs and AMA championships than Honda's CBR600RR.

[leed]

Originally Posted by alex.s

get an sv650

+1

I haven't ridden a CBR600, but going from the 250 to the 636 is not too bad at all. R6 is nice too

[EsrTek]

CBR 600 is only big 4 SS I'd get, for and Honda's reliability and parts availability.

[Xoulrath]

Get the CBR.

[headshrink]

Sit on them and see which fits you better. I can't see getting a bigger Ninja myself, as I feel wayyyy to stretched out on it. It feels a little intimidating actually. But the CBR fits like a glove (not unlike the Ninjette).

[sombo]

Originally Posted by Alex

The CBR600 has won 7 of the last 10 World Supersport Championships, which is the top level of 600 production racing worldwide.

http://www.worldsbk.com/en/season/ch...SP&p_Anno=2012

Kawi hasn't won one since 2001...

While this is true, the 636 doesn't count towards that since it was never allowed to compete. Also team Kawasaki did win the Masterbike competition in 2005 which is a overall competition of their production sport bikes to see who is the best on an annual basis. For 2005 it was a finale of: 1)Kawasaki ZX-10R, 2)Ducati 999 S, 3)Kawasaki ZX-6R.

So yah, if you want to compare pure racing stats than Honda wins hands down. But if you want to compare the street side of things than the 636 is the one to get. Also while Honda racing is the big dog it should be noted that Kawasaki actually wins quite a number of the street ride shoot outs. Seems that Honda waters down it's bikes for the street compared to what they put on the track.

[Alex]

When they released the 636, Kawi also sold a 600cc version for racing homologation (the ZX-6RR). Came with a slipper clutch, an available race kit, and a few other goodies, but it still wasn't terribly competitive in the US or overseas. Once the 636 was dropped, most of the upgrades were put into the standard 600.

Heck, I'm a kawi fan, and have owned more of this brand than any other make. But they haven't made many championship winning bikes. Magazine shootouts don't count, it's kinda like teeball where everyone gets a trophy. Honda has a racing history like no other, and their 600 series bikes have been competitive since the beginning of the class.

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by Alex

Magazine shootouts don't count, it's kinda like teeball where everyone gets a trophy.

LOL, I like that. So true, so true.....

[Kstorm21]

I personally like the look of the CBR....with white rims it would make it really pop!

[KELPHYN]

My vote is for the green 636, just to make it harder for you :-) CBR's usually have the worst fuel mileage out the group. 636 would have more bottom end and mid-range than the CBR, nicer for street riding. As for Kawi not winning races....well....if Kawi throw the money into their race program that Honda does I think things would be different. GO GREEN!!

[Mountain Dew]

CBR hands down.

[headshrink]

Those three-spoke wheels on the CBR really do look sharp!

I first started drooling over the CBR when they cost $5000 new, and yellow/purple was still hot.

[EthioKnight]

Why face possible banishment from this forum by considering the big 600s? I say resist the urge to upgrade, stay loyal and get a 250
In all seriousness though, I'm leaning towards the 636...purely for its looks, because I don't know much about either bike.

[headshrink]

If you're considering a Honda, you REALLY should consider the Ruckus.

[sombo]

Last time I checked he was looking at a STREET bike and not a RACING bike. So yah if you want a racing bike get a Honda, hands down, since they win races all the time. However, if you want a street bike then those magazine shoot-outs and the Masterbike competition are actually more important because it shows you what is being put on the street and not the race-track.

Honda puts way more into their vehicles for the race track than anyone else and it shows. Problem is they don't port it over as clearly as the others do. So in the end you get a shadow of their race bikes for on the street. Look at the 250 series bikes they make for example. The two 250 race bikes they make are ridiculous and hard to compete with on the track. But the street 250 is a totally different animal. I'm just saying that it's something to consider. Their race bikes seem to be much different than what they put on the street when compared to what Kawasaki puts on the track and street.

[Vampyre]

636 but I am biased, and then I could pick on you for copying me.

[pop0tart]

Here is one more point for you to consider: finances. Are you going to pay cash for your 636 or CBR, or are you going to take out a loan? Interest can be a killer. For example, my parents were able to get a great deal on their first home at $92,000. Of course they paid $150,000 for the home when all was said and done with paying on the mortgage...so not so great of a deal.

The reason I am stating this is because I have owned 3 bikes: a pregen, a cbr600rr, and (currently) a new gen. Was the CBR a little more fun? Yes. Was it so much more fun that it justified the added purchase price, fuel costs, insurance and potential traffic citations? No. Best of luck with whatever you decide to do, but I have found happiness outrunning squids on my "slow" bike and in retrospect, I probably didn't need to "upgrade" to the CBR.

[saxnbass]

Originally Posted by Vampyre

636 but I am biased, and then I could pick on you for copying me.

I was not expecting you to chime in until you get back from Europe next week. How is it going over there? Enjoying it?


Have you ever ridden a CBR by any chance mate?

[saxnbass]

Originally Posted by pop0tart

Here is one more point for you to consider: finances. Are you going to pay cash for your 636 or CBR, or are you going to take out a loan?

The added purchase price, fuel costs, insurance and potential traffic citations?

Going to be paying cash.

The fuel economy can't be all that different between the two, maybe 2-4 MPG? Insurance would probably be very similar too, since they're both 600s; I am going to start calling around for quotes when I find out for sure if I'm going to be getting one or not. Potential traffic citations? I assume you mean this as a 600 vs 250, not a CBR vs 636...

As for purchase price, I guess that does bring up the great point of which can I find the better deal on.

[gt_turbo]

Originally Posted by blink

CBR isn't a championship bike =]

i

i haven't sat on or rode a 636 yet. but i did ride my buddies 07 CBR a few times. i have to say the ergonomics and riding position are pretty comfortable. the bike has plenty of power, drives all the way to redline easily. but yea, pretty much like everyone says hop on each one and test ride them both. see which one appeals to you more.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by sombo

Last time I checked he was looking at a STREET bike and not a RACING bike. So yah if you want a racing bike get a Honda, hands down, since they win races all the time. However, if you want a street bike then those magazine shoot-outs and the Masterbike competition are actually more important because it shows you what is being put on the street and not the race-track.

I was responding to a silly statement that called the CBR600 not a championship winning bike. It was patently incorrect, and if that were a decision factor in anyone's buying choices, might as well start with the correct data. Whether it should be a factor or not is for whoever's spending their own money to decide. Unless it's a track-only bike, I'd also be concerned about how it behaves in typical street conditions.

Originally Posted by sombo

Honda puts way more into their vehicles for the race track than anyone else and it shows. Problem is they don't port it over as clearly as the others do. So in the end you get a shadow of their race bikes for on the street. Look at the 250 series bikes they make for example. The two 250 race bikes they make are ridiculous and hard to compete with on the track. But the street 250 is a totally different animal. I'm just saying that it's something to consider. Their race bikes seem to be much different than what they put on the street when compared to what Kawasaki puts on the track and street.

Honda has two production racebikes, the 600RR and the 1000RR. Both of them are strong platforms for production racing, and what you get at the showroom is exactly the starting point for the racebikes. Same as the rest of the big four, including Kawi. There is no larger difference between Honda's street versions of these bikes, and the race versions, compared to Kawi, Yamaha, Suzuki, or anyone else.

In addition, Honda makes some one-off racebikes that have nothing to do with their streetbikes. These have included the RS125's, the RS250's, and now even their Moto3-focused bike, the NSF250R. Good on Honda to continue to support racing efforts with these machines, and the kids (and adults) who get to play on these bikes on the track are particularly lucky individuals. While at one point years ago there were other inexpensive racebikes sold to the public by the other companies (Yamaha's TZ series, for example), Honda is now pretty much the only game in town.

[kaiserz]

Tough choice. But I would go with the cbr

[jack_bm]

My vote is for the CBR just becuase it looks like... wow looks like a real sport bike, im not saying the 636 doesnt look real but comparing the two the cbr just does it for me

[sombo]

Originally Posted by Alex

I was responding to a silly statement that called the CBR600 not a championship winning bike. It was patently incorrect, and if that were a decision factor in anyone's buying choices, might as well start with the correct data.

Oh I was disputing that at all. I even agreed with you that the CBR is a championship bike and has won tons of race awards. I was only saying that for the street you shouldn't discount the magazine shootouts. And it's in those shoot-outs that the competition seems a lot closer than it is on track.

Originally Posted by Alex

Honda has two production racebikes, the 600RR and the 1000RR. Both of them are strong platforms for production racing, and what you get at the showroom is exactly the starting point for the racebikes. Same as the rest of the big four, including Kawi. There is no larger difference between Honda's street versions of these bikes, and the race versions, compared to Kawi, Yamaha, Suzuki, or anyone else.

Just because it's labeled as a "race ready" bike doesn't mean it's setup the same as what their racing teams use. The reason I said that was because while Honda seems untouchable on the track, they don't always win shootouts and they have never won the Masterbike competition while Kawasaki has won it a couple of times. That would suggest that their street bikes aren't quite as "race ready" as their title suggests.

Originally Posted by Alex

In addition, Honda makes some one-off racebikes that have nothing to do with their streetbikes. These have included the RS125's, the RS250's, and now even their Moto3-focused bike, the NSF250R. Good on Honda to continue to support racing efforts with these machines, and the kids (and adults) who get to play on these bikes on the track are particularly lucky individuals. While at one point years ago there were other inexpensive racebikes sold to the public by the other companies (Yamaha's TZ series, for example), Honda is now pretty much the only game in town.

Ok, so perhaps I stand corrected on the 250 series of bikes. I still think that the evidence shows that Honda water's down their bikes more for the street than the other 3 do. But I don't think it can truly be proven either way and I never claimed to be an expert.

[austexjg]

I vote '09+ ZX6R and not just because I have one. I think you might be able to find one for about the same price as the CBR in great shape. I really wanted the undertail exhaust, but I am not regret the descion to go with a new bike. Between the two - I can't decide either - maybe that was one of hte reasons I went with the ZX6R.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by sombo

Just because it's labeled as a "race ready" bike doesn't mean it's setup the same as what their racing teams use. The reason I said that was because while Honda seems untouchable on the track, they don't always win shootouts and they have never won the Masterbike competition while Kawasaki has won it a couple of times. That would suggest that their street bikes aren't quite as "race ready" as their title suggests.

You're off-base. The WSBK and WSS teams are required to use the platform that the manufacturers provide. That's why it's called production racing. From those same platforms, the teams and the factories themselves improve the bikes in many ways to make them more capable, turning $11K streetbikes into $100k - $250k racebikes that are built and blueprinted to amazing tolerances.

Whether the street versions of the bikes win magazine shootouts just isn't relevant. But if you feel it is, Honda did win the Masterbike competition in 2008 with their CBR1000RR. The last wins I can find for Kawi were in 2004 & 2005.

Originally Posted by sombo

I still think that the evidence shows that Honda water's down their bikes more for the street than the other 3 do. But I don't think it can truly be proven either way and I never claimed to be an expert.

What evidence? What do you mean waters down their bikes more? If you believe it, why don't you think it can be proven?

[KawiKid860]

636 cuz its 36 better

[sombo]

I'm not off-base at all. That statement was 100% true. Look up the winners of the Masterbike competitions. Not once has Honda taken that title. Kawasaki has won it several times. How is that "off-base" when I'm just going off the listed results for the Masterbike competition? You're not making sense.

Masterbike is a contest held on an annual basis to determine the best sport bikes of the year. Motociclismo, a Spanish sport bike magazine, invites cooperating magazines from all over the world (In Moto and Motosprint for Italy, Motociclismo Spain, Motociclismo Brazil, Motorrad, PS, Kickstart, MCN, Australian MCN, Cycle World, Motosprint, In Moto, Moto, Motociclismo Mexico, Motociclismo Portugal, Bike, Bike India, and Motorcyclist) and motorcycle manufacturers as well to join this pure racetrack comparison test. Categories are broken into Supersport, Superbike, and Maxisport. Winners are determined by a rating that is the attribution of the score for the best lap time overall (40%), the fastest lap set for each rider (40%) and the individual rating by each rider (20%). Only the winners of Supersport, Superbike and Maxisport class reach the final comparison where an overall Masterbike winner is chosen for the year.

The evidence is that Honda is virtually untouchable on the track with their racing teams/bikes. However, on the street with their street bikes and in street bike shoot outs, along with the Masterbike competition, they aren't always number one. So how does that not suggest that what they put on the track and what they put on the street are far more different from one another than what the others put out?

But since you're an expert, know tons more than me, and are going strictly off of Supersport World Champion racing while choosing to ignore street shoot-outs and the annual Masterbike competition, then it can't be proven now can it?