Float bowl leak (I think)

[MasterCylinder]

Problem number 2...

After the bike has been running for a minute or so the middle of the carb starts dripping A LOT of fuel... I've determined it to be the float bowl gasket... I just rebuilt it with new gaskets but apparently they are too small diameter-wise to seal... Then when I take them out of the bowl itself they're too long to fit back inside the groove... Is there a cheaper alternative than speaking 30$ on just a small gasket that'll probably do the same thing again? Maybe some engine rebuild (black) gasket maker?

[brian12]

Is there a hose on the overflow tube?

[MasterCylinder]

Originally Posted by brian12

Is there a hose on the overflow tube?

Yes - and it goes to the back of the bike. That was my initial thought but that was bone dry.

The only parts that were wet were directly in the center on the bottom of the screws. No place else that I could see...

[brian12]

I recently replaced the seals on my bowls and they dont leak. Did you use the oem seals? Did you clean the surfaces thoroughly before installing them? I believe mine had some kind of sealer in them that I had to clean out. My only other thought would be is the mating surface on the bowls or carb is warped.

[MasterCylinder]

It was from the K&L rebuild kit. The problem being when it is completely seated in the groove it is still lower than the metal itself. So it won't seal right.

Cheapcycleparts seems to have a set of 4 replacement gaskets for various carbs for 16$ but I'm a bit skeptical after the proper rebuild kit didn't work.

[brian12]

Originally Posted by MasterCylinder

It was from the K&L rebuild kit. The problem being when it is completely seated in the groove it is still lower than the metal itself. So it won't seal right.

Cheapcycleparts seems to have a set of 4 replacement gaskets for various carbs for 16$ but I'm a bit skeptical after the proper rebuild kit didn't work.

My seals looked the same, they didn't look like they would seal it but they did. It might be that the gasoline makes them swell. You could cut one of the old o-rings and measure the length, then find a new o-ring with a thicker diameter to fit in there. Make sure its rated for gasoline though.

[MasterCylinder]

Originally Posted by brian12

My seals looked the same, they didn't look like they would seal it but they did. It might be that the gasoline makes them swell. You could cut one of the old o-rings and measure the length, then find a new o-ring with a thicker diameter to fit in there. Make sure its rated for gasoline though.

Where would I go to get such a thing?

[MasterCylinder]

Blargh! The issue is still not fixed... Just as bad as it was.

I bought a new gasket set from K&L and the gaskets fit perfectly... Everything is nice and tight. Here's the weird part. When the bike runs with the fuel tank connected it leaks like there is no tomorrow. When the bike runs without the fuel tank connected it doesn't leak, regardless if I have the petcock vacuum line connected or not.

I immediately took the carb off after it started leaking and saw it was damp only around the float gasket area. Nothing higher then that. The overflow is bone dry.

Just short of buying another carb (don't want to since I just spent a bunch rebuilding this one) I'm out of ideas since gasket sealant is no bueno for carbs...

Help please I want to ride again. =(

[kslane]

i have the same !@#$%$$#%$%^ !!! problem last time i put extra silicon blue gasket on the services and still leaks

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by MasterCylinder

.....
Help please I want to ride again. =(

The problem is in the floats, the float's valves soft parts or the seat of the valves.

Floats could be leaking and sinking.

The soft parts of the valves may be hardened or broken.

The seats of the valves may have developed some hard sediments that prevent the valves from closing completely.

Grab a magnifier !!!

You can do all those tests with the carbs out and using a long hose that mimics the height of the fuel inside the tank respect to the floats' valves.

[MasterCylinder]

Originally Posted by Motofool

The problem is in the floats, the float's valves soft parts or the seat of the valves.

Floats could be leaking and sinking.

The soft parts of the valves may be hardened or broken.

The seats of the valves may have developed some hard sediments that prevent the valves from closing completely.

Grab a magnifier !!!

You can do all those tests with the carbs out and using a long hose that mimics the height of the fuel inside the tank respect to the floats' valves.

All the parts inside the carb are brand new... I'll take it apart again if that may be the case. I did notice the floats themselves while they move don't seem to have that much range on them.

[Motofool]

If the two valves themselves are new, you will need to take a magnifier and check the edges of the orifices on which they seat to close.
Those should be clean and flat; otherwise, you will need to use some mototool and some dental paste to eliminate any irregularities or pitting.

One of both floats may be puncture (you will see fuel inside) or having their movement restricted preventing them from reaching total closing position.

Maybe everything is new and working as intended, but the fuel level has been reset too high by accident.
Look around here for specific height for that fuel level or for the floats respect to the flat edge of the body.
Read these references:

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_..._the_floats%3F

http://forums.ninja250.org/posting.p...&t=85429&tro=1

[MasterCylinder]

Originally Posted by Motofool

If the two valves themselves are new, you will need to take a magnifier and check the edges of the orifices on which they seat to close.
Those should be clean and flat; otherwise, you will need to use some mototool and some dental paste to eliminate any irregularities or pitting.

One of both floats may be puncture (you will see fuel inside) or having their movement restricted preventing them from reaching total closing position.

Maybe everything is new and working as intended, but the fuel level has been reset too high by accident.
Look around here for specific height for that fuel level or for the floats respect to the flat edge of the body.
Read these references:

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_..._the_floats%3F

http://forums.ninja250.org/posting.p...&t=85429&tro=1

Those links don't work. Found some videos on float height adjustment so I'll try that real quick and update soon. Thanks.

[MasterCylinder]

Ok so neither float is punctured.

I tried blowing through a hose connected to the fuel inlet and it seemed either I'm blowing too hard (no idea what kind of pressure I'm looking for) or both of them might be leaking the same...

New plot twist... I think the leak might definitely be else where... It's gotta be part of the make fuel inlet. It doesn't matter which way the floats are adjusted, I still got the same leak. Now the leak is more immediate. I don't even think the floats are filling up since they start leaking after only a few seconds of cranking (not even starting up). That is with everything bone dry. They still only leak with fuel tank attached...

What else could be leaking that far down?

I'm about to give in and take them to a shop to fix them.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by MasterCylinder

Those links don't work. Found some videos on float height adjustment so I'll try that real quick and update soon. Thanks.

Sorry:

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_..._the_floats%3F

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...ighlight=85429

[The_big_dill]

Although this is most likely not your case, i feel like i should mention it.

Every time i rebuilt the carbs, they would leak a little bit around the bowls and after some circulation, they would stop. This also happened to other people on this forum.

[kslane]

Originally Posted by MasterCylinder

Ok so neither float is punctured.

I tried blowing through a hose connected to the fuel inlet and it seemed either I'm blowing too hard (no idea what kind of pressure I'm looking for) or both of them might be leaking the same...

New plot twist... I think the leak might definitely be else where... It's gotta be part of the make fuel inlet. It doesn't matter which way the floats are adjusted, I still got the same leak. Now the leak is more immediate. I don't even think the floats are filling up since they start leaking after only a few seconds of cranking (not even starting up). That is with everything bone dry. They still only leak with fuel tank attached...

What else could be leaking that far down?

I'm about to give in and take them to a shop to fix them.

SAME FOR ME. float height is correct no bad floats still leaks

[cuong-nutz]

You sure the fuel hose is good? Is it leaking at both carb bowls?

Pull the carb out, and get some food color with some water, and fill the fuel feed hose with the color water and see where it leaks out of.

I just ordered a rebuild kit from murphskits.com.

[MasterCylinder]

Originally Posted by cuong-nutz

You sure the fuel hose is good? Is it leaking at both carb bowls?

Pull the carb out, and get some food color with some water, and fill the fuel feed hose with the color water and see where it leaks out of.

I just ordered a rebuild kit from murphskits.com.

Well both carb bowls are damp after I see the drip.

It better not be the feed hose from the petcock/filter, it's brand-spankin new. I'll double check it just in case though...

How would I get water into the carb bowls without it going in the engine? Doesn't it require some pressure? I'll give it a try though.

[MasterCylinder]

Round 2...

Adjusted the float height to the correct height. Turns out I was way off on it BUT before I adjusted them to the correct 17mm height I had them way under the correct height so the bowls would have been super low and they still leaked...

Fast forward to yesterday with the correct height... Here is what happened.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[cuong-nutz]

Can't tell from the angle and position but I am assuming that you are leaking from your pilot screws. Might be worn or broken if it's leaking from there.

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...3&postcount=16

Have you tried to "feel" where it's leaking from?

[MasterCylinder]

Well it's dripping off of the RPM idle adjuster bracket but that's good point... I'll have to take those out and look at it. They do have this weird squeak to it when I turn them. I'll check that.

[cuong-nutz]

pilot screw/needle - spring - washer - o ring

[jkv45]

Trace the fuel line down from the petcock to see if it's wet anywhere. Also look at the point where it enters the carb. If the hoses have been off a few times they may just be stretched loose on the ends. If that's the case you may be able to trim off some to get it to fit tighter.

From what I can tell, I don't think it's related to the float bowls/gaskets - it's higher than that.

[MasterCylinder]

Originally Posted by jkv45

Trace the fuel line down from the petcock to see if it's wet anywhere. Also look at the point where it enters the carb. If the hoses have been off a few times they may just be stretched loose on the ends. If that's the case you may be able to trim off some to get it to fit tighter.

From what I can tell, I don't think it's related to the float bowls/gaskets - it's higher than that.

It's not petcock/fuel filter/fuel hose related. All of those are bone dry. The wetness always shows up along the rim of the float bowls. Nothing higher nor lower...

I'm gonna be inclined to try the food coloring trick if I wasn't so worried about gumming up the carb.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by MasterCylinder

It's not petcock/fuel filter/fuel hose related. All of those are bone dry. The wetness always shows up along the rim of the float bowls. Nothing higher nor lower...

I'm gonna be inclined to try the food coloring trick if I wasn't so worried about gumming up the carb.

I didn't think it would be dripping off of the idle speed screw bracket if it was leaking from the float bowl gasket.

Pretty sure the fuel level wouldn't be high enough to flow fuel out the bowl gasket unless there was a problem with the float/needle/seat.

[MasterCylinder]

Originally Posted by jkv45

I didn't think it would be dripping off of the idle speed screw bracket if it was leaking from the float bowl gasket.

Pretty sure the fuel level wouldn't be high enough to flow fuel out the bowl gasket unless there was a problem with the float/needle/seat.

Took out the a/f needles... It would appear there is no washer between the o-ring and the spring on both of them... Go figure. Wish I could find the remains of my rebuilt kits and see if there is an extra washer. =/

[MasterCylinder]

How can I be this bad at carbs???

Update... carb is still leaking from the middle between the carbs. I thought it might be flooding the boots but doesn't make sense why it would flow around it plus the area around the boot inlet look dry.

As it sits, it runs fine [too rich though but can't get it to a point to adjust it yet] and only leaks when gas is flowing through the fuel filter (no leaks around the petcock or the fuel filter). I can disconnect the petcock and the bike will still run and it won't leak.

Here's what I've done since last post.

-> float bowls = brand spankin new seals

-> A/F needles = new gaskets and washers (loosen 3 turns versus the recommended 2-1/2 turns)

-> brand new needle valves

-> area where needle valves open and close has been polished and cleaned up (it looked so pretty)

-> floats checked for air leaks and none were found (can hold them under water and still want to float to the surface)

-> floats adjusted to 17mm (+-1mm)

->


New development:

Petcock flows gas for a few seconds on start up then stops completely while the bike still runs. I have 2 separate petcocks that do the exact same thing. Even interchanged diaphragms and no difference was made. There is still vacuum being pulled from the carb to the diaphragm.

So much disappointment. =(

[agentbad]

Originally Posted by MasterCylinder

How can I be this bad at carbs???

Update... carb is still leaking from the middle between the carbs. I thought it might be flooding the boots but doesn't make sense why it would flow around it plus the area around the boot inlet look dry.

As it sits, it runs fine [too rich though but can't get it to a point to adjust it yet] and only leaks when gas is flowing through the fuel filter (no leaks around the petcock or the fuel filter). I can disconnect the petcock and the bike will still run and it won't leak.

Here's what I've done since last post.

-> float bowls = brand spankin new seals

-> A/F needles = new gaskets and washers (loosen 3 turns versus the recommended 2-1/2 turns)

-> brand new needle valves

-> area where needle valves open and close has been polished and cleaned up (it looked so pretty)

-> floats checked for air leaks and none were found (can hold them under water and still want to float to the surface)

-> floats adjusted to 17mm (+-1mm)

->


New development:

Petcock flows gas for a few seconds on start up then stops completely while the bike still runs. I have 2 separate petcocks that do the exact same thing. Even interchanged diaphragms and no difference was made. There is still vacuum being pulled from the carb to the diaphragm.

So much disappointment. =(

Check the filter inside the tank and make sure the in line fuel filter isn't clogged. If the carbs really are that messed up you may want to consider going EFI because it's cheaper then a new set of carbs. If you can find a good used set then do that.

[MasterCylinder]

Filter isn't clogged.

[agentbad]

See if you can get your hands a on a used pair of carbs that are in good condition. There are tons right now on ebay.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/121235502567?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1