Running hot or normal?

Wre7ch · October 9th, 2009, 08:15 PM

New rider with a 2006 250. My daily commute is about 15 miles, one way. I can take the freeway or go straight down one long street to the other side of town. When I choose the surface street, I, of course, hit plenty of stop-and-go traffic. I've noticed about half way home, say 7-8 miles down the road, at stoplights, the bike's temperature rises fairly quickly. It never actually hits red, but it's come pretty close a couple times. It immediately cools down once I get going, but it seems to me, even in stop-and-go traffic, in fairly hot weather, say between 85-95 degrees, that it should be running a little cooler. When I'm on the freeway, it's no issue at all.

The coolant is fine and the fan does come on. Is this really normal temperature, even with a liquid-cooled bike? Seems to me it should be a bit more stable on a liquid-cooled bike. Am I being paranoid or is something amiss in the cooling system?

Thanks for your time and great forum

Alex · October 9th, 2009, 09:02 PM

I guess I'd say it doesn't sound abnormal. If the bike is fully warmed, it's warm outside, and it's sitting at a stoplight, it can certainly get on the warm side, and even close the red zone. The fan isn't strong enough to cool the radiator/engine down that much, but it's enough to keep it from getting too hot to the point of damage. Once the bike is moving again, the airflow is orders of magnitude better and the engine cools down quite quickly.

Wre7ch · October 9th, 2009, 09:07 PM

That's actually what I've been told a few times. Just curious on getting a lot of experienced opinions. Thanks for your response, Alex.

Wre7ch · October 9th, 2009, 09:12 PM

That's just a big difference to the way a car would run. So, for the most part, bikes just don't want to be in stop-and-go traffic much, huh?

Alex · October 9th, 2009, 09:21 PM

Somewhat, but it shouldn't be generalized across all bikes. The ninjette has a quite small radiator, a smallish water pump, and not nearly as much coolant on board as larger bikes. It doesn't need much, as it's a small engine making a comparably small amount of power, which means there just isn't as much heat to remove. If Kawi had sized the cooling system large enough to keep the bike cool running while at a stop, it would have added significant weight and complexity that just isn't needed. Some larger bikes, especially more touring or sport-touring bikes (as opposed to full-on sportbikes) have plenty of excess cooling capacity and won't heat up nearly as much at slow speeds. But then there are some others, like the VFR, that get terribly hot at low speeds, with what many people believe to be an undersized and underdesigned cooling system.

Car systems aren't nearly as weight and size constrained, and they are sized to allow a car to idle indefinitely at a reasonable temperature, even if an owner doesn't check their coolant for 5+ years.

Wre7ch · October 9th, 2009, 09:32 PM

That makes a lot of sense. Never thought about it from a size perspective. Really appreciate the insight.

Flashmonkey · October 9th, 2009, 10:20 PM

I've seen this on my ninjette as well. It gets up past the half way mark, then once I get moving, it goes down quite a bit. That's normal...as long as it doesn't hit the red or start spiking up and down for no apparent reason.

My gixxer runs insanely hot in traffic haha. I just sit there, watch the needle go allllllll the way up to red...then the fan kicks in...and i just watch the needle fall allllll the way back down to half. It's quite the spectacle.

null0 · October 10th, 2009, 12:04 AM

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Cooling_system

Quote:

The fan engages at a predetermined point on the temperature gauge (they're not actually tied together in the sense of using the same temperature sensor, though). Many bikes engage the fan just below the red zone, while others have been reported engaging the fan at the mid-way point on the temperature gauge. The most important thing here is that it's entirely normal for your bike's temperature gauge to run all the way up to the bottom of the red zone before the fan comes on.

hackeron · January 9th, 2012, 10:14 AM

I notice the opposite most of the time: in UK weather (at the moment around 5-10 celsius) my bike temperature gauge is glued to the near bottom of the temperature gauge where the "C" range is. The bike practically never gets out of the "C" part of the temperature gauge.

Is it healthy for the bike to always run so cold? -- The fan doesn't come on though so don't think there is a fault.

On a hot day in start/stop traffic I notice what others experience here, the temperature climbs very near the red but never gets there as the fan kicks in.

cbdallas · January 9th, 2012, 10:42 AM

My brand new '07 would get within a few mm of the line between red and black in stop & go traffic. I had checked all fluids when I took delivery. The radiator was completely full at that point. Then I had the 600 mile valve clearance check done. On the way home from the shop in 100 degree heat in slow traffic, the gauge came to rest right on the line between normal and hot, fan spinning away. The next morning, I checked the coolant level in the radiator. They hadn't filled it back up all the way. I added about 1.5 cups of coolant to fill it all the way up to the neck, and checked that the level in the overflow was fine. The bike never got that hot again.

I think it may make a big difference to this little cooling system whether it's completely full or not.

greg737 · January 9th, 2012, 11:01 AM

If you are really interested in what's going on in your EX-250's cooling system, if you want to know why it behaves the way it does, there's a guy named Bill Watt who has done quite a bit of thinking, researching and experimenting with Kawasaki cooling systems.

He has concentrated on Kawasaki's KLR 650, KLX 250, and Versys engines. But he's also working with EX-250s and Concours.

All of these engines share a common cooling system architecture (and a lot of the parts are identical, such as the thermostats and water pumps), so his research and experimentation with the KLR and KLX also applies to the EX-250.

So, if you're really curious about what's going on inside your Ninja's cooling system (and you have at least a 15 to 20 minute attention-span) look at this article that Bill Watt wrote: http://www.watt-man.com/uploads/TB_Testing.pdf

Jinx250 · January 9th, 2012, 11:36 AM

After working on and riding several classic 250s, I've found that each has its own individual character. My very first one only got up near the red on the hottest days, while my current one gets up near the hot range whenever I get stuck in traffic, regardless of outside temps. At the end of hte day, as long as your coolant is topped off, the fan comes on, and it never gets into the red then you're normal.

DaBlue1 · January 9th, 2012, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greg737

If you are really interested in what's going on in your EX-250's cooling system, if you want to know why it behaves the way it does, there's a guy named Bill Watt who has done quite a bit of thinking, researching and experimenting with Kawasaki cooling systems.

He has concentrated on Kawasaki's KLR 650, KLX 250, and Versys engines. But he's also working with EX-250s and Concours.

All of these engines share a common cooling system architecture (and a lot of the parts are identical, such as the thermostats and water pumps), so his research and experimentation with the KLR and KLX also applies to the EX-250.

So, if you're really curious about what's going on inside your Ninja's cooling system (and you have at least a 15 to 20 minute attention-span) look at this article that Bill Watt wrote: http://www.watt-man.com/uploads/TB_Testing.pdf

Speaking of Bill Watt, Exploring/Carolina has installed a Thermo-Bob system designed by Bill Watt on his bike. Check out his thread. http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...ght=thermo+bob

Kevin2109 · January 9th, 2012, 11:56 AM

Yeah just wait till you get a 600, or 1000. These damn things run hot in traffic, to the point of if I touch the frame it hurts lol talk about a heater

greg737 · January 9th, 2012, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

Speaking of Bill Watt, Exploring/Carolina has installed a Thermo-Bob system designed by Bill Watt on his bike. Check out his thread. http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...ght=thermo+bob

I also installed a Thermo-Bob. I love what it does for my EX-250.

Tony B · January 10th, 2012, 01:46 AM

I agree 100% with Alex's comments, and unlike the original poster, (lives in 'hot hot heat' !), I live in the UK, which can never be described as 'hot hot heat',
I find that even in averagely cool days, if I stop and let the bike idle after reaching temperature, the temp gauge after just a minute will rise quickly and the fan kicks in. Doesn't seem a problem, though I would never leave it idling for long other than when tuning up. Oh, mine's an '89 pre-gen.

Skippii · January 10th, 2012, 02:14 AM

I replaced my coolant with Mercury. Seems to make it a lot more stable. I just wish it didn't leak so much! Topping up the mercury every week is expensive.
Posted via Mobile Device

greg737 · January 10th, 2012, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skippii

I replaced my coolant with Mercury. Seems to make it a lot more stable. I just wish it didn't leak so much! Topping up the mercury every week is expensive.
Posted via Mobile Device

It's a little early in the day to be drunk.

Alex · January 10th, 2012, 11:51 AM

October 9th, 2009, 08:15 PM	#1
Wre7ch ninjette.org newbie Name: Wretch Location: Hot Hot Heat Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250 Posts: 4	Running hot or normal? New rider with a 2006 250. My daily commute is about 15 miles, one way. I can take the freeway or go straight down one long street to the other side of town. When I choose the surface street, I, of course, hit plenty of stop-and-go traffic. I've noticed about half way home, say 7-8 miles down the road, at stoplights, the bike's temperature rises fairly quickly. It never actually hits red, but it's come pretty close a couple times. It immediately cools down once I get going, but it seems to me, even in stop-and-go traffic, in fairly hot weather, say between 85-95 degrees, that it should be running a little cooler. When I'm on the freeway, it's no issue at all. The coolant is fine and the fan does come on. Is this really normal temperature, even with a liquid-cooled bike? Seems to me it should be a bit more stable on a liquid-cooled bike. Am I being paranoid or is something amiss in the cooling system? Thanks for your time and great forum Last futzed with by Wre7ch; October 9th, 2009 at 08:18 PM. Reason: Proof-reading

October 9th, 2009, 09:02 PM	#2
Alex ninjette.org dude Name: 1 guess :-) Location: SF Bay Area Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 7	I guess I'd say it doesn't sound abnormal. If the bike is fully warmed, it's warm outside, and it's sitting at a stoplight, it can certainly get on the warm side, and even close the red zone. The fan isn't strong enough to cool the radiator/engine down that much, but it's enough to keep it from getting too hot to the point of damage. Once the bike is moving again, the airflow is orders of magnitude better and the engine cools down quite quickly. __________________________________________________ Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered)

October 9th, 2009, 09:21 PM	#5
Alex ninjette.org dude Name: 1 guess :-) Location: SF Bay Area Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 7	Somewhat, but it shouldn't be generalized across all bikes. The ninjette has a quite small radiator, a smallish water pump, and not nearly as much coolant on board as larger bikes. It doesn't need much, as it's a small engine making a comparably small amount of power, which means there just isn't as much heat to remove. If Kawi had sized the cooling system large enough to keep the bike cool running while at a stop, it would have added significant weight and complexity that just isn't needed. Some larger bikes, especially more touring or sport-touring bikes (as opposed to full-on sportbikes) have plenty of excess cooling capacity and won't heat up nearly as much at slow speeds. But then there are some others, like the VFR, that get terribly hot at low speeds, with what many people believe to be an undersized and underdesigned cooling system. Car systems aren't nearly as weight and size constrained, and they are sized to allow a car to idle indefinitely at a reasonable temperature, even if an owner doesn't check their coolant for 5+ years. __________________________________________________ Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered)

January 9th, 2012, 11:56 AM	#14
Kevin2109 KThanksBye Name: Kevin Location: Orange County Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2006 zx636r Posts: A lot.	Yeah just wait till you get a 600, or 1000. These damn things run hot in traffic, to the point of if I touch the frame it hurts lol talk about a heater __________________________________________________ ----> My Youtube! <---- Unregistered, watch my youtube page!

January 10th, 2012, 11:51 AM	#19
Alex ninjette.org dude Name: 1 guess :-) Location: SF Bay Area Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 7	__________________________________________________ Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered)

October 9th, 2009, 09:07 PM	#3
Wre7ch ninjette.org newbie Name: Wretch Location: Hot Hot Heat Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250 Posts: 4	That's actually what I've been told a few times. Just curious on getting a lot of experienced opinions. Thanks for your response, Alex.

October 9th, 2009, 09:12 PM	#4
Wre7ch ninjette.org newbie Name: Wretch Location: Hot Hot Heat Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250 Posts: 4	That's just a big difference to the way a car would run. So, for the most part, bikes just don't want to be in stop-and-go traffic much, huh?

October 9th, 2009, 09:32 PM	#6
Wre7ch ninjette.org newbie Name: Wretch Location: Hot Hot Heat Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250 Posts: 4	That makes a lot of sense. Never thought about it from a size perspective. Really appreciate the insight.

October 9th, 2009, 10:20 PM	#7
Flashmonkey Professional belly dancer Name: James Location: Toronto Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 1992 GSX-R 750 Posts: A lot.	I've seen this on my ninjette as well. It gets up past the half way mark, then once I get moving, it goes down quite a bit. That's normal...as long as it doesn't hit the red or start spiking up and down for no apparent reason. My gixxer runs insanely hot in traffic haha. I just sit there, watch the needle go allllllll the way up to red...then the fan kicks in...and i just watch the needle fall allllll the way back down to half. It's quite the spectacle.

January 9th, 2012, 10:14 AM	#9
hackeron ninjette.org member Name: Roman Location: London, UK Join Date: Aug 2010 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250r (2009) Posts: 67	I notice the opposite most of the time: in UK weather (at the moment around 5-10 celsius) my bike temperature gauge is glued to the near bottom of the temperature gauge where the "C" range is. The bike practically never gets out of the "C" part of the temperature gauge. Is it healthy for the bike to always run so cold? -- The fan doesn't come on though so don't think there is a fault. On a hot day in start/stop traffic I notice what others experience here, the temperature climbs very near the red but never gets there as the fan kicks in.

January 9th, 2012, 10:42 AM	#10
cbdallas ninjette.org guru Name: Charlie Location: Wylie, TX Join Date: Nov 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 650R Posts: 317	My brand new '07 would get within a few mm of the line between red and black in stop & go traffic. I had checked all fluids when I took delivery. The radiator was completely full at that point. Then I had the 600 mile valve clearance check done. On the way home from the shop in 100 degree heat in slow traffic, the gauge came to rest right on the line between normal and hot, fan spinning away. The next morning, I checked the coolant level in the radiator. They hadn't filled it back up all the way. I added about 1.5 cups of coolant to fill it all the way up to the neck, and checked that the level in the overflow was fine. The bike never got that hot again. I think it may make a big difference to this little cooling system whether it's completely full or not.

January 9th, 2012, 11:01 AM	#11
greg737 - Name: - Location: - Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): - Posts: A lot.	If you are really interested in what's going on in your EX-250's cooling system, if you want to know why it behaves the way it does, there's a guy named Bill Watt who has done quite a bit of thinking, researching and experimenting with Kawasaki cooling systems. He has concentrated on Kawasaki's KLR 650, KLX 250, and Versys engines. But he's also working with EX-250s and Concours. All of these engines share a common cooling system architecture (and a lot of the parts are identical, such as the thermostats and water pumps), so his research and experimentation with the KLR and KLX also applies to the EX-250. So, if you're really curious about what's going on inside your Ninja's cooling system (and you have at least a 15 to 20 minute attention-span) look at this article that Bill Watt wrote: http://www.watt-man.com/uploads/TB_Testing.pdf

January 9th, 2012, 11:36 AM	#12
Jinx250 Smoker Name: Bob Location: SoCal Join Date: Dec 2010 Motorcycle(s): Guess.... Posts: 556	After working on and riding several classic 250s, I've found that each has its own individual character. My very first one only got up near the red on the hottest days, while my current one gets up near the hot range whenever I get stuck in traffic, regardless of outside temps. At the end of hte day, as long as your coolant is topped off, the fan comes on, and it never gets into the red then you're normal.

January 10th, 2012, 01:46 AM	#16
Tony B ninjette.org member Name: Tony Location: Surrey UK Join Date: Aug 2010 Motorcycle(s): GPX250 + many others! Posts: 184	I agree 100% with Alex's comments, and unlike the original poster, (lives in 'hot hot heat' !), I live in the UK, which can never be described as 'hot hot heat', I find that even in averagely cool days, if I stop and let the bike idle after reaching temperature, the temp gauge after just a minute will rise quickly and the fan kicks in. Doesn't seem a problem, though I would never leave it idling for long other than when tuning up. Oh, mine's an '89 pre-gen.

January 10th, 2012, 02:14 AM	#17
Skippii Milkshake Drinker Name: Skippii Location: Richmond, Va Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Orange DRZ400-S, 2005 Ninja 250 & Custom Thundercunt Dirt Chopper Posts: A lot.	I replaced my coolant with Mercury. Seems to make it a lot more stable. I just wish it didn't leak so much! Topping up the mercury every week is expensive. Posted via Mobile Device

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